[FeeltheBern]

(10-03-2016 12:37 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

Yeah definitely agree that most of us are probably overtraining.

What do you think constitutes overtraining? What is the definition of it? What are the downsides?

I spend a good 90 minutes at the gym lifting usually plus a 20 minute swim afterwards.

From what I hear the rock spends a good 2-3 hours at the gym. He also eats 7 times a day - so that probably helps!!

If you have good protein intake and take BCAAs before a workout, there shouldn't be much risk of losing muscle from lack of blood sugar right?

[iamkaisersoze]

(10-03-2016 03:52 PM)AWright Wrote:  

Some form of high intensity with compound movements would be the best. Three days a week, 30-45 minute workouts working up to max sets of 3 in a few compound exercises.

I agree with this. Quick workouts with compound lifts at 80%+ and submax reps/volume spread over preferably 3 days/week (better than 2/week) will enable you to maintain strength and not get sore (same total volume 1x a week will probably make you sore each workout and results won't be optimal).

Physique-wise, maybe afterwards do a giant superset of accessory lifts like curls, tris, shoulders afterwards and get outta there. But big heavy lifts like bench, squat, deadlift should do most of the work at beginning of workout.

[Mjölnir]

(10-05-2016 10:13 AM)FeeltheBern Wrote:  

(10-03-2016 12:37 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

Yeah definitely agree that most of us are probably overtraining.

What do you think constitutes overtraining? What is the definition of it? What are the downsides?

I spend a good 90 minutes at the gym lifting usually plus a 20 minute swim afterwards.

From what I hear the rock spends a good 2-3 hours at the gym. He also eats 7 times a day - so that probably helps!!

If you have good protein intake and take BCAAs before a workout, there shouldn't be much risk of losing muscle from lack of blood sugar right?

You're out of your mind comparing yourself to The rock..

The dude is genetically a big ass motherfucker plus he's on gear. That's why he spend a good 2-3 hours at the gym. Ain't got nothing to do with eating 7 times a day nor BCAAs.

Unless you shoot yourself with supratherapeutic hormone doses, 3 hours a day at the gym is overtraining.

The definition is mostly feeling, you'll feel overtrained. The downsides are that not only you'll not grow but you might lose some muscle, and you won't have energy to do anything plus feel like shit and not wanting to go to the gym.

That said, you should worry way more about your CNS being overtrained than your muscles..

[RichieP]

Overtraining = pushing yourself beyond capacity to recover. Results in fatigue, getting sick more easily, sleeping too much, low motivation/energy, etc.

As Mjolnir says, it's about the central nervous system fatigue - pushing heavy for 90mins+ 3-4x a week takes it's toll. I need my brain motivated and energized for business/work/social life. Overdoing training tends to make me a zombie, unless I can just laze around all day and eat and sleep. But that's not possible or desirable.

Also I simply do not want to be spending all that much time in the gym these days.

[FeeltheBern]

Personally, I find that if I sleep properly i.e. am allowed to wake up naturally. I really need to exercise for around 2 - 3 hours otherwise I can't sleep properly the next night. But I have a lot of energy and a body clock that doesn't tell me to sleep until past midnight!

I think the amount of exercise one should do will vary amongst individals, ages, and sexes. I think about the fact that our bodies were basically supposed to be doing some kind of physical activity (walking, bashing rocks, etc.) most of the daylight hours. We seem to save up all our physical activity for short bursts after work - probably not as healthy :/

[Hannibal]

Over at the gymnastic bodies forums, they claim you can maintain your strength with one session of one hour per week.

However, you have to hit at least 80% effort on your lifts to maintain your strength. I would recommend and upper body push, upper body pull, a squat, and a deadlift for one top set of each.

[RichieP]

^Nice, love that. Thanks.

Have already reduced to "1.5 sets every 5 days". By that I mean one heavy set pushing a rep or two shy of failure, then another easy half-set just to get a few more reps in. Loving it so far. Workouts are quick, I have more energy left over, and I can focus on the exercise I actually find enjoyable.

[Stallion]

Someone mentioned it, but after genetics, the next most important variable is what else you are doing apart from lifting.
It's not the same if you are doing other sports (easier to overtrain, but also easier to maintain) or spend your day drinking and watching TV.

I didn't have access to a gym during 8 months but was doing 10 hours per week of BJJ and muay thai... I actually looked bigger (same muscle less bodyfat) and when I came back my benchpress was better, other lifts were the same.




As far as bodyweight, if you are just doing pushups and pullups, I'm not sure if it would help. But once you reach the level where you can do full plances, front levers, push/pull on rings, or iron crosses... you don't need long workouts to get high intensity.

[RichieP]

Interesting to hear you maintained muscle/strength with 8 months of MT / BJJ.

I don't think that's the norm. I know a couple of guys that have dropped lifting entirely for crossfit/ martial arts and their muscle really dropped away.

Do agree that those gymnastic exercises rock though. Personally I do pistols and pseudo-planche pushups for reps, they're difficult enough that I'm still in the 10-20 rep range and so they are nice portable exercises to maintain strength and size.

[Stallion]

(10-10-2016 06:20 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

Interesting to hear you maintained muscle/strength with 8 months of MT / BJJ.

I don't think that's the norm. I know a couple of guys that have dropped lifting entirely for crossfit/ martial arts and their muscle really dropped away.

Do agree that those gymnastic exercises rock though. Personally I do pistols and pseudo-planche pushups for reps, they're difficult enough that I'm still in the 10-20 rep range and so they are nice portable exercises to maintain strength and size.

I think it was mostly the BJJ. I'm a short guy and most of my opponents weighted 10 or 20 kg more than me. So all that grappling against heavy guys is a pretty hardcore bodyweight workout, with plenty of pushing and pulling.

So I got my ass kicked a lot, but it was a good (and humbling) workout.

You want a pump? Forget bicep curls... nothing pumps you up more than a 90 kg gorilla trying to choke you!



For inspiration, full planche pushups... someday I hope to be able to do 1 rep... but that's a long way to go!

[RichieP]

Quick update: basically this works well.

I fluctuate between two approaches:

A)3 sets per body part, once every ~9 days
B) The aforementioned "1.5 sets" per bodypart every 5 days.

Doing compounds + arm/medial delt isolations.

I tend to do a few weeks of one, then a few weeks of the other. A) Allows me to do just one exercise per day-ish, with rest days. B) requires more exercises together.

It's definitely enough for me to maintain strength and size. If anyone has basically got to "big enough" and wants to free up their time/energy, I'd recommend this approach.

[Dalaran1991]

I find that HI training using just bodyweight exercise work great for maintenance. I even got sore doing them, though not the same kind of fuck yeah sore you get from pushing your max at the gym.

Although it's very easily becoming a crutch. Since I can maintain a good form without going to the gym I find myself slacking off more and more. It's almost like masturbating vs real sex.

There's really no excuse for "maintenance" training unless you are travelling or recovering from injury.

If you work long hours in front of a screen like me I highly suggest finding a quiet corner every day and do a quick set of HI 3-4 x 30 squats / push ups. Alleviated my back problem a lot.

[RichieP]

There is absolutely a case for maintenance lifting. Here are two:

-Pouring 80 hrs / week into my business
-Being utterly bored with lifting, enjoying MMA far more, yet wanting to keep a thick muscular physique

As for bodyweight squats and pushups to maintain muscle mass developed from years of free weights... no chance. I have no desire to become a skinny weakling.

[Steelex]

A couple days a week of hard as fuck training to failure.

Look up DC training, and adapt it to a two day split.

Bodyweight squats give you a bodyweight body...

I tend to have a really poor impression of guys who are all about bodyweight exercises.

[Fortis]

I think the general advice on this is about 30-50% of the work you put in. So you might be able to maintain 4 days a week physique on 1-2 sessions a week. That won't work forever, but you can do it for a while.

[fortysix]

(10-04-2016 03:51 PM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 12:24 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

(10-04-2016 12:06 PM)SegaSaturn1994 Wrote:  

(10-03-2016 03:05 PM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

Mark Chaillet (powerlifter of the 1980s) had a very minimalistic routine:

Train two days per week:

Tuesday: Squat up to a maximum single (probably something like 90% of 1 RM).

Saturday: Bench press up to a maximum single (same as squat). Deadlift up to maximum single.

This may be good for some athletes but inadequate for people who desire an impressive V-shaped physique.

Chaillet had a pretty damn good physique.



That being said, he was a powerlifter, not a bodybuilder.

That's fine but he was probably on steroids and had good genetics anyway. If he did bodybuilding, his body would have looked better and his spine would have aged slower. Deadlifts and squats are pretty risky.

It's not so much about the rep range or lifting heavy or light; it's just that powerlifting moves are tests of strength. They are not meant to target the whole body and they do not. Many powerlifter guys do also do accessory work that develops those muscles ignored by powerlifts so they can have complete and wholesome development as well.

Did he suffer some kind of injury? I wasn't able to find anything in google.

[rudebwoy]

For me I have been lifting for almost 20 years.

I only do 3 days a week and I hit the 3 major body parts, Chest, Back and Legs.

Depending on my energy levels I will do some off the other body parts.

I do more cardio now than I did before, ab workouts and cardio.