[pancakemouse]

Thought this was interesting:

Quote:

Prompted by a recent post on my forum on anecdotal evidence that clubs are disappearing, I did a bit of research on that topic, but before we get to that, I'd like to share some of my observations.

I have been aware that gentrification is a prime cause for club closures. Central London was hit pretty hard due to the redevelopment of Tottenham Court Road tube station, for instance. In addition, the authorities cracked down on clubs in Soho, leading to the closure of clubs that have been around for decades, such as Madame Jojo's. Their Tuesday night was one of my favorite nights out in London. When I was living in Berlin, I witnessed first-hand the effects of gentrification, forcing many clubs to either permanently close or move. The pattern was always more or less the same: renovations, redevelopments, new renters or owners of apartments close to clubs. Those uptight high-strung people moved to Berlin to experience some of its "cool". Yet, the moment they figure out that this means loud crowds in the neighborhood, they've had it, and file complaints with the authorities.


There are two more trends that don't quite gel with a vibrant nightlife: people struggling to get by, and social media addiction. Youth unemployment or underemployment is quite an issue in many Western countries. It is nowadays not at all uncommon that people move back in with their parents after finishing their degrees. If you live somewhere in the 'burbs, with no place on your own, and not enough funds, you'll probably not often be in the mood to party anyway. Furthermore, there is the phenomenon that many young women love going to night clubs because of all the attention they are getting. However, these days they don't need to even leave the house for that anymore. Instead, they only need to take a couple selfies, put them on Instagram or Facebook, and watch the 'likes' come in. This gets them the same attention-induced high they would be getting in a club, and if they want to get laid but Frat-Chad can't find a spot in his schedule, then there is always Tinder.

I am obviously painting in rather broad strokes, but the evidence seems pretty clear. As a consequence, nightlife is becoming more homogenized because if you address the lowest common denominator, you'll probably always find enough customers. Now, going back to the opening sentence of this post: I have been looking around, and dug up that in the UK, in the last ten years, around 45% of clubs have closed:

In 2005, there were 3,144 clubs across the UK compared to the 1,733 that stand today, according to the Association of Licensed Multiple Retailers (ALMR), an organisation which represents venues.


That's quite a bit. I would be interested in looking at more detailed data. You could probably develop a causal model that ties together club closures and social media consumption, following a chain of effects from women spending more time online and using other sources of attention to men going out less because of dwindling numbers of females, and finally clubs closing. Maybe you could even tease out a nice decay function. Of course, all of this is speculation. That clubs are dying is real, though.

Link to post on his blog: http://bit.ly/2cVrdSK

[iknowexactly]

(09-22-2016 10:56 PM)corsega Wrote:  

Thought this was interesting:

Prompted by a recent post on my forum on anecdotal evidence that clubs are disappearing, I did a bit of research on that topic, but before we get to that, I'd like to share some of my observations.

Interesting essay
I'm too old for clubs anyway, but one thing I noticed before I stopped going was the incredible increase in volume of music.

I remember when I was younger a 400 watt PA amp was the biggest available, later everything went well beyond the level of pain and I'm not sure of exactly why. It's not like the human ear suddenly adapted greatly to 120DB or whatever it is.

[WestIndianArchie]

That UK article was posted before, but I can't seem to find it.

It's becoming harder to learn night game, but easier to get laid in modern countries.

And a lot of people are able to niche down, as well as having very individualized experiences that block out the randomness of life.

Further social atomization means more countries are going to become Japan.

WIA

[Delta]

(09-23-2016 03:42 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I remember when I was younger a 400 watt PA amp was the biggest available, later everything went well beyond the level of pain and I'm not sure of exactly why.

Theory #1 (what I'd always thought): Hot girls like the super loud environment because it discourages introverted, intellectual, beta type guys ("creepers") from starting conversations with them. And it doesn't matter what guys prefer because they just go wherever the hot girls are.

Theory #2 (what I've read): When it's too loud to have a conversation, people sip their drinks more frequently, leading to more alcohol sales.

Either way it creates a really shitty experience and I say good riddance to the club scene.

[XPQ22]

Clubs aren't designed to be hospitable places for men. That's the whole point. The reason they are the way they are is because that's an environment that appeals to the women that go to clubs.

Q: How do you know women have the advantage in some environment?

A: There are a lotta women there.

Even so, back when I was a young man, "nightclub game" in the golden age of the late 1990s early 2000s wasn't terribly difficult and I got laid a decent number of times from club pulls. The amount of game and investment required was shockingly low - one of the best looking girls I hooked up with circa 2001 I just noticed standing alone at the bar, walked over, and my "pickup line" was something totally dumb like "Hey nice to see you here you look lonely." In those days before social media solo girls out at clubs just waiting on the first guy with the balls to approach them weren't uncommon, girls would actually approach me from time to time.

The other thing I've noticed about night game here in recently is that it's basically an extension of social circle game; there are a couple places I hang out at regularly in Boston, clubs that have shows and various events, and I see the faces of the same maybe 100 girls over and over week in and week out - the amount of turnover in talent is shockingly low in a city of several million people. Everybody knows everybody and if you're not in the regular crew you're not getting any pussy.

[GetRichOrdie]

(09-26-2016 12:36 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

Clubs aren't designed to be hospitable places for men. That's the whole point. The reason they are the way they are is because that's an environment that appeals to the women that go to clubs.

Q: How do you know women have the advantage in some environment?

A: There are a lotta women there.

Even so, back when I was a young man, "nightclub game" in the golden age of the late 1990s early 2000s wasn't terribly difficult and I got laid a decent number of times from club pulls. The amount of game and investment required was shockingly low - one of the best looking girls I hooked up with circa 2001 I just noticed standing alone at the bar, walked over, and my "pickup line" was something totally dumb like "Hey nice to see you here you look lonely." In those days before social media solo girls out at clubs just waiting on the first guy with the balls to approach them weren't uncommon, girls would actually approach me from time to time.

The other thing I've noticed about night game here in recently is that it's basically an extension of social circle game; there are a couple places I hang out at regularly in Boston, clubs that have shows and various events, and I see the faces of the same maybe 100 girls over and over week in and week out - the amount of turnover in talent is shockingly low in a city of several million people. Everybody knows everybody and if you're not in the regular crew you're not getting any pussy.

ive found night clubs in perth australia a giant f'ing pain in the arsehole, and the late nights, the low success rate, not really worth it. Ive also heard many accounts that back in the day it was much easier, seems times are a changing, and the night scene in perth is a fraction of what is was a few years ago

[Putin Closes]

I find nightlife talent to be similar to or worse then online in some countries. Not to mention you'll see the exact same girls in the club on tinder.

Looking back how much money I've wasted on booze, my wallet thanks Tinder.

[kurti]

I think this decline in number of clubs has a lot to do with demographics.

[Shimmy]

I think it has to do with apps like Tinder. Back in the good old days girls went out to get laid. You might have gotten lucky at the end of the night if a girl doesn't have something lined up. Now a days girls have a queue of guys on tinder ready to give them the D that they don't need to go out to meet guys and if they do go out there's no reason to meet a guy because she has so much options.

[XPQ22]

(09-28-2016 02:59 PM)kurti Wrote:  

I think this decline in number of clubs has a lot to do with demographics.

http://jonathansoma.com/singles/

Set the sliders to 20-34, just about post-college to The Wall, and you'll see that every major American city, without exception, is pretty much a sausage party (the 27 unmatched women in Jackson, MS are unmatched because they're so heavy they'd need a crane to move them out of their bedrooms to go on dates.)

NYC is on the low end of the scale. Washington, DC is as well, but is problematic for reasons that have been discussed. Boston should theoretically be a pussy paradise by comparison with most cities, and I'm sure it's better than the Bay or Seattle, but its ultra-liberal, feminist population, pathological aversion to allowing fun of any kind, insular social circles, and the fact that girls hibernate with their vibrators for 6 months of the year in my experience seem to undercut any demographic advantage.

[WestIndianArchie]

Broken record here - but spending time talking with women and getting used to their behavior puts a single man far ahead of other men who don't spend their time interacting with women.

I can't seem to convince guys that talking to chicks and having them actually like talking with you leads to sex though.

Small town, college, workplace, night club, bar, rave, concert, book club, grocery store....the overall demographics/social trends fall to the wayside when you have a chick in front of you.

*shrugs*

WIA

[preppy]

The mainstream media will never address the gender ratio problem in the US, at the current moment, it's easily catching up to China, it may already be there, but there's no concrete data on this. Also, the amount of women in the US who could be trained at cruiserweight by Lou Duva is impressive.

[XPQ22]

(09-28-2016 05:11 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Broken record here - but spending time talking with women and getting used to their behavior puts a single man far ahead of other men who don't spend their time interacting with women.

I totally hear the broken record, which is why I've posted on newb threads before that for guys who are very introverted, or just don't have a lot of experience being around women, before one goes out and starts trying to "daygame some number closes on solid 9s" at the gym they simply head down to their local Starbucks daily for a month or two and take 10 minutes out of each day to engage the college girl baristas in conversation. It's a captive audience and they're looking for tips so they're not going to blow you out like some regular girl in the store, the point isn't to bang any of them, but simply learn to be the "cool guy" they look forward to seeing in the morning.

I think part of where the "demographic problem" comes in is that in cities with a large gender imbalance, even if you're the "cool guy" that girls enjoy talking with, your opportunity for getting her on a sit in front of you is lower when you go out to a club and realize that 95% of the girls there are with their boyfriend or two or three random men of indeterminate status.

Or when you finally do get a chick in front of you who seems like she's buying, you notice (like happened to me the other evening when a girl approached me) there are two guys in your extended social circle standing around nearby who are getting no love, giving you the skeptical eye, wondering which nearby feminist they should tell re: the nature of your game, and you finally can't trust to have your back. Nightgame cockblocking is a huge issue in these cities with unbalanced gender ratios; I remember once several months ago I approached an attractive woman who had been hula-hooping on a Saturday night near the club, and we were having a good chat, and suddenly two dudes leap out of a Uber nearby and run up to her and start putting their bid in: "Oh my god do you hoop? Where'd you get that hoop with sparkles on it? Wow that's so cool I wish you'd show me your moves"

Got dudes literally jumping out of moving vehicles to cockblock you. And even if they run poor game and eventually fuck off (which they did), that validation hit makes your job all the harder.

However, I'm sure my views are partially jaded by the fact that I've been learning in the northeast US, which I recall one forum member saying is something like "doing basic training with the Navy Seals." To even bang "5s" here regularly, being interesting and comfortable talking with women is simply a sine qua non requirement, like having four tires on your car. To do any better also requires an enormous amount of tedious grinding, or having top-level social circle and proofing.

To which you might say "Wow, there must not be many guys getting laid regularly in your area." And yeah, that's my impression of the average Boston bar or club - they have about as much sexual energy as a nunner's convent. And that's another reason that demographics doesn't tell the whole story. How much does the average girl in your area like sex? I can tell you my impression of most college-educated women in the Northeast outside NYC: Sex - they're not big into it.

But there's the best gender ratio from 20-35 in the whole country outside NYC. So indeed ratios don't tell the whole story. My opinion on why hetero clubs are having a harder time, yet Providence opened four new successful gay clubs last week is just that women never really liked meeting men for casual sex in nightclubs, but they did it simply because there were no better options available. Girls would've always only wanted to text you and flake on a date just by not responding to a text and blocking you instead of having to give you an excuse over the phone, but they spent 100 years flaking on dates over the horn simply because no better technological options existed. Hey, it was still better than having to say no in person like they had to from 1 million BC until 1904.

Make a post on social media sometime positing that the reason everyone sits around texting all day in 2k16 is because women want it that way, and texting intrinsically puts them at an advantage and so many women will crawl out of the woodwork to let you know what a judgemental asshole you are, that you'll know you've hit paydirt.

[262]

(09-28-2016 05:11 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Broken record here - but spending time talking with women and getting used to their behavior puts a single man far ahead of other men who don't spend their time interacting with women.

I can't seem to convince guys that talking to chicks and having them actually like talking with you leads to sex though.

Agree, though I wouldn't paint so broadly by implying "all guys" - but definitely "most guys."

To borrow from Rollo: save those you can, read last rites to those you can't.

(09-28-2016 05:11 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Small town, college, workplace, night club, bar, rave, concert, book club, grocery store....the overall demographics/social trends fall to the wayside when you have a chick in front of you.

*shrugs*

WIA

If you can't control a certain factor, I agree, no point spending too much time thinking about it.

But, I would strongly advise guys, IF they can, to go to a normal bar over a feminist lesbian one, or a normal city over a Bakken oil field sausage fest, or places where the clinical obesity rate (which doesn't include overweight) isn't 30+% (!). Don't complain if you can't, and don't forget to bring Game.

[Nowak]

Clubs may be dying but mixed venue spaces (part art gallery/part bar/part concert hall) are on the up. Preferable anyways, not all is lost with night game

[Atlanta Man]

(12-22-2016 06:49 PM)Nowak Wrote:  

Clubs may be dying but mixed venue spaces (part art gallery/part bar/part concert hall) are on the up. Preferable anyways, not all is lost with night game

I agree with this post. Lounges are especially in on the up and up. Even Vegas is putting their money where their mouth is and converting "Super Clubs" int multiple differntly themed lounges with softer music and live bands.

[John Michael Kane]

Nightclubs suck in general. Watered down drinks, horrible ratios, lame cover charges, fights, music that causes hearing loss, etc. Give me a proper pub or chill lounge any day.

[Geomann180]

(12-22-2016 07:12 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

I agree with this post. Lounges are especially in on the up and up. Even Vegas is putting their money where their mouth is and converting "Super Clubs" int multiple differntly themed lounges with softer music and live bands.

Good. I'm better at talking than I am dancing.

G

[subterfuge]

Isn't is just because everyone gets laid on tinder now?

[Sidney Crosby]

^ And people are cheap/clubs overpriced and an increasing amount of faggoty rules involving drinking.

[John Michael Kane]

Subterfuge is tight. With tinder and all other online dating apps and sites, people can meet without a club. It is more efficient and costs less. Also, Facebook and Instagram allows women to screen men in an environment which they are safer compared to dealing with guys at a club.