[RichieP]

^YES mate. Awesome. Fact is there will always be masses of low value guys, and there will be the few guys girls crave. Doesn't matter who's doing what. Just be that latter guy and you'll get what you deserve.

[TheFinalEpic]

The concept of spam approaching is flawed in and of itself. If you're walking down the street suited up with some swagger, you're going to turn heads, and girls are going to be dying to get a passing "hey" from you.

I'll reiterate my point. If you have nothing to offer to a woman except for your cock, then you are no better than the woman who has nothing to offer besides her vagina. If you have $5 to your name, go get that figured out. If you have a shitty physique, go solve that. These things will build internal confidence and a snowball effect occurs.

It makes me laugh that these guys are saturating cities with daygame. If you're the man of her dreams, if only for a night, you're never going to have to worry about this. That's why I'm a part of this community and don't subscribe to the Mystery Method or RSD style of pick up.

We're not PUAs boys, we're far more than that.

[Cambodian Creamsicle]

Seeing a lot guys up on their high horse in this thread. Things are tough in the smp these days so guys are doing what they can to get laid or get a gf. Shouldn't get mad at a guy running game when you're doing the same thing.

Doing 10 hrs of approaches every day on one street can burn a place out for sure, but these guys are quite rare. Most are doing the bare minimum to get a few leads.

Lets not forget why most guys (including here) got into pick-up in the first place - they weren't getting the results they wanted with women. Social circle, work, it wasn't enough and they weren't the highest smv bad ass to begin with. Everyone is limited to an extent by their genetics. I'm 5'9 (5'8 1/2). That will never change. The bone structure of my face will never change, nor the inter workings that make me introverted.

Most guys aren't going to 'suit up' and have girls falling all over them, regardless of your pocket square. The suit / pocket square thing is the rvf equivalent of the leather jacket.

Tdlr - stop hating on guys for doing daygame. You're doing it because you don't like competition.

[serpico]

I was about to post something similar - well, on the lines that these guys are at least taking action, and just going out and approaching girls in the day can be a victory in itself, in terms of getting past social anxieties, and conquering fears, and that alone in this day and age is something to be applauded.

[Shimmy]

Who cares what someone doing daygames ratio is or what they are offering the girls? It doesn't matter how or what methods you use to get girls. If you are doing something and it's working that's all the that matters at the end of the day.

[Travesty]

(09-20-2016 08:46 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

Clearly I lack experience BUT based on what I experienced in prague, the ability to build a lifestyle and maintain an unreal sex life is far easier than nyc. (Russian bottle girl of club in old town exchange info in less than 2mins...If I were single would have been a done deal)

Me gusta.

We missed you bro. Glad you are finding good people out there.

[James Bond Next level]

Ramification of OP problem are larger IMO:

Causes

• PUA was a secret community. The secret is now out : I had some girls who told me they read some articles, beta guys who, even though didn't believe in it, were regulars of game website and next year "the Game" will be in movie theater.
• Guys have a tendency of ruining something when they hear the pussy is easier to get (even if that's not really the case). E.g. I knew a dance festival in EE : in 2013-2014 there was lots of pretty girls and some action. 2 years later, its swamped with guys approaching like machines, party's over...
• 90% of "players" suck and are weirdos. They approach way too much, do the same thing over and over even when it fail and have some personality disorder. A shrink seem more like a solution for them
• Less married people, so more guys on the market
  

The solution?

• Smaller cities
• Develop your own game - it has to be natural, personalized (your routines, attitudes, etc) and refined
• Stick to a city sufficiently long to know the local spot, not so advertized
• Increase your game
  

Honestly guys, it can only get worse. Unless a war start in Europe, as the EU is pushing EE to develop into modern country (read: become like the west) it will start to look the same.

I confess I did spam approaching when I started but no more. At least, I did some efforts to always improve, stick to my values and make it my own. Maybe it's selfish, but I feel these information should be filtered, not everyone should have access to. Only share it with normal guys who are frustrated with girls, not psychopaths or human robots. But gurus want more and more money...

[James Bond Next level]

For some who think this is just a numbers game, I would show them the following numbers (arbitrary scale to 10, just to show tendency):

Guy A : approach 20 girls/week
Authenticity of the approach felt by the girl : 6
Energy spent to try to close with each girl : 7
Index of chance to close the girl : 4
Typical quality of girl closed : 7


Guy B : approach 100 girls/week
Authenticity of the approach felt by the girl : 3
Energy spent to try to close with each girl : 2
Index of chance to close the girl : 0.1
Typical quality of girl closed : 6

So, you still think it's just a numbers game? There's a minimum indeed, but no excess.

[Armada]

Thinking about it further, and looking online about it, I'm 90% sure the problem is completely RSD's(mild scammers) fault, and not the rest of the daygamers. They advocate being okay being completely autistic, spam approaching high numbers(10-20/day), using just an opener and hoping it'd pull them through, not relying on a daygame model or anything.

@TheFinalEpic What if suiting up isn't your style? I think girls don't turn their heads at me. They don't even give me IOIs. Often the girls who like me don't give me any signals at first glance.

@Distant Light In general most daygamers are too gamma to be okay with nightgame or social circle. Otherwise, PUA would be more about social circle than cold approach. So your approach is much harder for gamma types(while cold approach is much easier) relative to a "normal" alpha/beta guy.

[Eddie Winslow]

(09-20-2016 08:46 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

I was only in prague for 6 days...

Like other poster said "a man of value will never go out of style". I was getting invites to germany and poland.

Guys doing all this daygame trying to get laid are wasting their lives. I too find all the pua youtube channels super generic...Guys thinking they're cool because they kissed or hugged a chick who exchanfe numbers

Clearly I lack experience BUT based on what I experienced in prague, the ability to build a lifestyle and maintain an unreal sex life is far easier than nyc. (Russian bottle girl of club in old town exchange info in less than 2mins...If I were single would have been a done deal)

You get it, DL. (Are you still based in NYC? I gotta meet you sometime)

There's an ugly truth that PUA gurus try really hard to ignore. Just like with physical attractiveness, muscle growth, athleticism, confidence, etc...there is definitely a genetic limit on how "cool" a person can be.

Some dudes just don't have as much potential as others.

Inner game and confidence building exercises can certainly help a guy come out of his shell and make him be the best version of himself. But you can't teach an average schmuck to be as quick witted and funny as Kevin Hart, as good of a communicator as Obama, give less fucks than Nate Diaz, or be as confident and cool as Leonardo Dicaprio. There's a reason they are who they are.

Having the ability to cold approach a woman means that you are willing to try to get laid - nothing more. Approaching or even fucking women does NOT inherently make you cool. Many people, especially on the forum, worry so much keeping track of doing approaches and notch counts. Getting pussy can give you some temporary confidence, but it's not going to make you any more funny, charming, interesting, or likable by women OR men. Or even yourself.

[Brosemite]

(09-20-2016 03:11 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  

There's an ugly truth that PUA gurus try really hard to ignore. Just like with physical attractiveness, muscle growth, athleticism, confidence, etc...there is definitely a genetic limit on how "cool" a person can be.

Some dudes just don't have as much potential as others.

I'd rephrase it as some dudes don't invest in themselves compared to others. They're lives around just meeting girls or wanting to "fit in" as one of the guys without trying to evolve as a result of their experiences.

(09-20-2016 03:11 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  

Inner game and confidence building exercises can certainly help a guy come out of his shell and make him be the best version of himself. But you can't teach an average schmuck to be as quick witted and funny as Kevin Hart, as good of a communicator as Obama, give less fucks than Nate Diaz, or be as confident and cool as Leonardo Dicaprio. There's a reason they are who they are.

Having the ability to cold approach a woman means that you are willing to try to get laid - nothing more. Approaching or even fucking women does NOT inherently make you cool. Many people, especially on the forum, worry so much keeping track of doing approaches and notch counts. Getting pussy can give you some temporary confidence, but it's not going to make you any more funny, charming, interesting, or likable by women OR men. Or even yourself.

Yep. That stuff you you mentioned is important towards keeping male friends of high value around...also hot bitches you've fucked too for longer periods.

[GlobalMan]

Spam approaching while the sun is out is not "Daygame".

(09-20-2016 12:48 PM)serpico Wrote:  

terms of getting past social anxieties, and conquering fears, and that alone in this day and age is something to be applauded.

This is true and a good thing, but in the end that is really the bulk of what is being accomplished, not actually seducing girls on a regular basis. This is in fact the hook that these "coaches" are getting guys with- a guy will feel great, a rush, when first realizing he can speak to women and it feels like success when 1 girl out of 40 contacts him- and that is success in a way if he's had none. But is it a good strategy to pursue for actually succeeding on a regular basis, and a good use of time? No.

[serpico]

(09-20-2016 02:50 PM)Armada Wrote:  

Thinking about it further, and looking online about it, I'm 90% sure the problem is completely RSD's(mild scammers) fault, and not the rest of the daygamers. They advocate being okay being completely autistic, spam approaching high numbers(10-20/day), using just an opener and hoping it'd pull them through, not relying on a daygame model or anything.

I always quite enjoyed Tyler's theorising on the more esoteric aspects of game and psychology, and dipped in to a few of his more recent vids after a long time out. Interesting, at times funny stuff in between the blatant upsells and thinly veiled sales patter, then today a suggested one popped up on YT of his most recent, and after about 20 mins had to shut it off.

He was proposing exactly what you described. About how it's good to be 'that guy' that all people expect will act crazily, thus you can free yourself from conditioning. I can just imagine the hordes of uncalibrated losers doing all manner of prepostorous shit whilst out in clubs on the back of rank bad advice like this. What kind of quality women wants to be with a guy that acts like a complete tool while out? I get that no one should be stifled, but a women is always reading guys in the early days, to see if they are guys they would be proud to show off, meet friends, family etc...

All RSD does is get socially awkward people laid with drunk, low quality women. I get that if you're a semi autistic IT guy you might need that kind of shit, but i was banging drunk women fine back in the 90s way before PUA came about. I got into Game as away of attracting higher quality rather than quantity, and self improvement. Running around nightclubs shouting HHHHHHEEEEEEEY!!!! or doing the worm on the floor of a shopping mall, in order to free myself from social conditioning, yeah not so much....

[serpico]

I think i may be getting a little cynical about game in 2016. When Daygame first was popularised around 2010, there was no Tinder. Women were still dealing with a relative scarcity of 'new guys' from outside their immediate circles. So whether at a bar or in the street, meeting a new, somewhat anonymous guy was something more valuable. Now even a 6 has a surplus of choice from the comfort of her sofa, swiping on Tinder. This goes up exponentially based on her attractiveness.

So a random approach was more valuable to a woman back then, as she had less available options. Now essentially it's like just another guy swiping right, although in a more dynamic fashion (in a positive light), or in a weird creepy one (depending on how the girls views it).

Therefore the value in Daygame i feel has fallen fairly dramatically since back then. The rise in it's popularity, and saturation in parts of EE (where i live) at this time is just another aspect of this.

I certainly feel the terrain these days is way less suited to someone with good skills standing out from the crowd and being able to punch above his weight with women. If anything i think Tinder and the like even things out, meaning people now end up with more balanced matches. 6s and 6s, 7s and 7s and so on.

But yeah, this nostalgia probably isn't healthy. We are where we are, and i guess we just need to do the best we can and get on with it.

[Dantes]

(09-20-2016 05:12 PM)serpico Wrote:  

I think i may be getting a little cynical about game in 2016. When Daygame first was popularised around 2010, there was no Tinder. Women were still dealing with a relative scarcity of 'new guys' from outside their immediate circles. So whether at a bar or in the street, meeting a new, somewhat anonymous guy was something more valuable. Now even a 6 has a surplus of choice from the comfort of her sofa, swiping on Tinder. This goes up exponentially based on her attractiveness.

So a random approach was more valuable to a woman back then, as she had less available options. Now essentially it's like just another guy swiping right, although in a more dynamic fashion (in a positive light), or in a weird creepy one (depending on how the girls views it).

Therefore the value in Daygame i feel has fallen fairly dramatically since back then. The rise in it's popularity, and saturation in parts of EE (where i live) at this time is just another aspect of this.

I certainly feel the terrain these days is way less suited to someone with good skills standing out from the crowd and being able to punch above his weight with women. If anything i think Tinder and the like even things out, meaning people now end up with more balanced matches. 6s and 6s, 7s and 7s and so on.

But yeah, this nostalgia probably isn't healthy. We are where we are, and i guess we just need to do the best we can and get on with it.

Yes, as I mentioned before...you did get novelty points just for being able to make an approach. However, there are still places where Daygame is not saturated. It just happens to be so in EE now. The 7.5 who walks in the center of Kiev may get approached a few times per day. Her counterpart in South America probably doesn't get approached at all.

For the aging player, Daygame is a natural progression and probably still represents the best chance to meet younger, high quality girls. Night game is usually not sustainable as we get older due to the factors of late nights, declining energy and diminishing returns. Social circle will always trump this, but not all of us are able to relocate to such places for the long-term. You do the best you can, given your circumstances.

[Road_Less_Taken]

(09-20-2016 05:12 PM)serpico Wrote:  

I think i may be getting a little cynical about game in 2016. When Daygame first was popularised around 2010, there was no Tinder. Women were still dealing with a relative scarcity of 'new guys' from outside their immediate circles. So whether at a bar or in the street, meeting a new, somewhat anonymous guy was something more valuable. Now even a 6 has a surplus of choice from the comfort of her sofa, swiping on Tinder. This goes up exponentially based on her attractiveness.

So a random approach was more valuable to a woman back then, as she had less available options. Now essentially it's like just another guy swiping right, although in a more dynamic fashion (in a positive light), or in a weird creepy one (depending on how the girls views it).

Therefore the value in Daygame i feel has fallen fairly dramatically since back then. The rise in it's popularity, and saturation in parts of EE (where i live) at this time is just another aspect of this.

I certainly feel the terrain these days is way less suited to someone with good skills standing out from the crowd and being able to punch above his weight with women. If anything i think Tinder and the like even things out, meaning people now end up with more balanced matches. 6s and 6s, 7s and 7s and so on.

But yeah, this nostalgia probably isn't healthy. We are where we are, and i guess we just need to do the best we can and get on with it.

Good point about people dating more on the same level. While there are other influences why we are going in that direction, for example less of a financial need, I think social media and Tinder have really accelerated this.

I feel like in a Western city getting a point up on myself is a BIG challenge vs. getting my same level or slightly lower is really easy. Though I'm relatively young so I had no idea what it was like 20 years ago.

[serpico]

Indeed. And it didn't feel this way a few years back, when i was punching above my weight on a regular basis. I've kept myself in shape, if anything better condition now than 3 years ago, and have aged well too, so i don't feel it's simply a process of ageing. I used to get most of my pulls from solo missions out in bars, was almost more focused on those and would less likely end up getting wasted with friends. Now when i try that it seems the girls are less open to being approached.

Again, this could be a number of factors, but i feel the fact that in her phone she can effectively select from a near endless supply of potential suitors without having to be seen to do so in front of her peers, is by far the biggest. This is especially true of high 7s and 8s...

Apologies for drifting wildly off topic, but there you go.. .

[Irish]

For those guys saying it doesn't matter as long as you have your shit together blah blah. Yes I get that to an extent, but the way I look at it is this...

I can only imagine daygamers to girls are a bit like what street 'chuggers' are like to us (ie those folks with a clipboard or whatever on a main shopping street trying to get you to sign up to some bullshit charity $5 a month to adopt a bengali tiger kitten who will send you postcards and snapchat videos etc).

There was a time when I was first approached by one of these fuckers and didn't know what was going on, so I stopped, intrigued, and had a friendly chat. Only to soon find myself trying to sqwirm out of handing over my bank details. Other times I have occasionally signed up to some email list here and there etc but more and more I got tired and jaded of these guys and more dismissive. Still there was the odd one here and there who has a really different unique approach and can get you to stop and am sure have much more success than the others in getting sign ups etc. But it's got to the point for me now that when I see someone coming towards me on a main the street, no matter who it is I don't make any eye contact, put my hand up and just say "not interested" before they can even get their first couple words out.

There was a social experiment done somewhere (it was on a podcast somebody was talking about this but can't for the life of me remember who it was) where some guy (dressed to look like a chugger with clipboard etc) went out in a UK retail mainstreet somewhere with a bunch of £50 notes. All he was tasked to do was to try and hand out as many as he could. No catch, just trying to stop people in the street walking by to hand them free money. Can't quite remember the details but the results were something ridiculous like in the space of half an hour he was only able to hand out a total of 150 quid as everyone just dismissed him on the approach. I'm pretty certain I would've dismissed him also.

You could be the most awesome and different guy ever, but if everyone has become that jaded with chuggers that they struggle to hand someone a fifty fucking pound note in the street, it's unlikely that a chick who's already been clumsily hit on 4 or 5 times in the street that day will even give you the chance to get 2 words out at her never mind demonstrate how awesome and different to the other guys you are.

I'm sure you can still casually get chatting to a girl in a coffee shop etc, but for those guys who's main staple is direct street game, for sure the spammers must be ruining it for everyone.

I'm sure somewhere on the internet there's a ChuggerVForum where all these guys are bitching how UK city centres are 'completely played out' etc...

[Pointer]

You sell a seminar to a bunch of idiots who will pay thousands of dollars, you fly them to EE and you make them act like clowns where the women are more likely to give them 5 minutes of attention -> instant gratification. Makes perfect business sense.

In EE the girls are more approachable and nicer, a couple may even give you their (real) number out of pity but that doesn't mean anything. It's not going to make you better at approaching in your home country. I almost feel sorry for the suckers who fall for this.

[NewMeta]

(09-21-2016 05:29 AM)Irish Wrote:  

For those guys saying it doesn't matter as long as you have your shit together blah blah. Yes I get that to an extent, but the way I look at it is this...

I can only imagine daygamers to girls are a bit like what street 'chuggers' are like to us (ie those folks with a clipboard or whatever on a main shopping street trying to get you to sign up to some bullshit charity $5 a month to adopt a bengali tiger kitten who will send you postcards and snapchat videos etc).

There was a time when I was first approached by one of these fuckers and didn't know what was going on, so I stopped, intrigued, and had a friendly chat. Only to soon find myself trying to sqwirm out of handing over my bank details. Other times I have occasionally signed up to some email list here and there etc but more and more I got tired and jaded of these guys and more dismissive. Still there was the odd one here and there who has a really different unique approach and can get you to stop and am sure have much more success than the others in getting sign ups etc. But it's got to the point for me now that when I see someone coming towards me on a main the street, no matter who it is I don't make any eye contact, put my hand up and just say "not interested" before they can even get their first couple words out.

There was a social experiment done somewhere (it was on a podcast somebody was talking about this but can't for the life of me remember who it was) where some guy (dressed to look like a chugger with clipboard etc) went out in a UK retail mainstreet somewhere with a bunch of £50 notes. All he was tasked to do was to try and hand out as many as he could. No catch, just trying to stop people in the street walking by to hand them free money. Can't quite remember the details but the results were something ridiculous like in the space of half an hour he was only able to hand out a total of 150 quid as everyone just dismissed him on the approach. I'm pretty certain I would've dismissed him also.

You could be the most awesome and different guy ever, but if everyone has become that jaded with chuggers that they struggle to hand someone a fifty fucking pound note in the street, it's unlikely that a chick who's already been clumsily hit on 4 or 5 times in the street that day will even give you the chance to get 2 words out at her never mind demonstrate how awesome and different to the other guys you are.

I'm sure you can still casually get chatting to a girl in a coffee shop etc, but for those guys who's main staple is direct street game, for sure the spammers must be ruining it for everyone.

I'm sure somewhere on the internet there's a ChuggerVForum where all these guys are bitching how UK city centres are 'completely played out' etc...

Good breakdown, the social experiment you mention is certainly food for thought. To anyone that argues the opposite I think it has to be seen and experienced to wrap your head around it. I certainly have realized how bad it is by watching these PUA bootcamps been run this week, when we are talking pretty low numbers e.g. 10-30 at one time it could be quiet easy to brush that off.

But when you actually see those numbers in effect, im pretty sure it would make alot of you change your mind on the issue.

[CleanSlate]

Been following this thread with interest.

When I was a newbie posting on one of those PUA forums in the semi-distant past, I was asking what the best openers were. After spoon-feeding me with a few good ones (and a lot of really corny ones), I asked them "what happens if a bunch of guys used the same openers in a city? Are girls going to start saying 'ah I've heard that one before'?"

The reaction from the PUA community was largely dismissive and a few veterans got on my ass for "trolling" or "being too negative". While I've never gotten a girl who actually told me she heard my opener before, this thread is the end result of what happens when guys go spam approaching with similar openers in a small area of a city.

I'm certainly on the side of those who say spam approaching is having a real effect. In SEA, there are a lot of street peddlers who try to sell you something all of the time. At first, I was exceedingly polite, smiling, checking out what items they had in case I needed something, and saying "no thank you" in a nice way.

But after about 100 times of getting approached on the street, I actively avoid eye contact to discourage them from peddling. Whenever they persisted, I give them a quick frown, a dismissive wave, and grunt a short "nothanks", picking up the pace along the way. I mean, just yesterday one particularly persistent peddler in Vietnam kept following me on his motorbike and I had to practically shout at him, "I said no. fuck off!"

Imagine what these girls are going through in the city squares with all these "daygamers". In the West, I see girls intentionally avoiding eye contact whenever I tried to catch their eye.

Bottom line? I think what these spam approacher RSD guys lack is tact and social awareness -- and these two intangibles are integral to one's overall Game.

[MrRemi]

I'm gonna mic-up and film one of my regular girls next time I'm in a hotspot city. Reverse infield.

Just for the record: SDL'd a 7 from daygame in Prague last week. She told me that she had been approached by guys in the street before.

[262]

Thought-provoking thread. Two bits that haven't been discussed:

1) A reminder - including to myself - that marriage, a long-term relationship, or even multiple plates won't insulate you from the constant changes in the sexual marketplace (SMP).

2) There's no reason to see constant changes in the SMP as a bad thing, though. The right mindset is to see it as a game - hence the term "Game" - rather than to see it as a chore. That pretty much goes for anything: lifting, traveling, making money, politics ... life in general.

[serpico]

(09-21-2016 08:46 AM)MrRemi Wrote:  

I'm gonna mic-up and film one of my regular girls next time I'm in a hotspot city. Reverse infield.

My first reaction is that would be pretty interesting experiment, but c'mon these guys are just trying to improve themselves. Maybe they're out to 'get their legs', do they need to get their face and reputation tooled on the net on the back of it? Let em bang i say...

[Nascimento]

The problem isn't regular day approaches.

It's spam approaches.

Regular guys that are picky and calibrated approaching a couple of girls a day give or take won't ruin a city. But when you have a horde of guys approaching dozens half-heartedly and playing the most extreme form of a numbers game, the situation in a city will get bitter fast.