[SLSlayer]

Quoting another poster.

the spectre of social media is taking hold across the globe. It is demolishing whatever favourable regional differences and exploitable niches and market inefficiencies that existed and instituting a monolithic socio-sexual regime everywhere.

It is offering women a staggering array of choice and endowing them with complete power in the sexual market everywhere. It is cementing the 80/20 rule and streamlining a generic model of male attractiveness based on an entirely aesthetic ideal (tall, white, 8+ face, built, young, etc.) instantly available to ALL women for their Alpha Fukz, everywhere. It is annihilating nightlife and the viability of real life cold approach everywhere. And it is spelling Game Over for confident but aesthetically non-ideal cold approachers like me... and for us necessitating a reversion to social circle/familiarity-based forms of dating… everywhere.

[Enhanced Eddie]

Quote:

reversion to social circle/familiarity-based forms of dating

I have serious doubts that this is going to work better than cold approach.

[SLSlayer]

Social circles and social introductions are the primary avenue through which people form relationships. The best way for a regular guy to get into a relationship with an evenly matched woman is to make his way into social circle roughly matched to his race, age, and vocational group. His occupation/status and his presence/charisma are his leverage against his own looks for higher quality within.

On the flip side of the coin, there has been cold approach, a high volume, heavily front-loaded form of pussy acquisition. It is inherently difficult everywhere, is an r-selected mode of seduction (more looks and presence focused, with a view towards hookups and casual sex), with a natural handicap due to its irregularity. It offers the benefits of speed, quantity, variety, choice, and many people have started meaningful relationships from it regardless.

[Enhanced Eddie]

Quote:

get into a relationship with an evenly matched woman

Ah, I've spotted where our difference in perspective comes from.

[A White God in FSU]

Dating apps can be very hit or miss depending on what part of Eastern Europe you're in. It just depends on how quick the places are to adapt the dating apps.

On the subject of daygame, it varies a lot depending on the cities. For example, second-tier poland is absolutely fantastic without the downsides of metropolitan poland.

Sex tourists and gamers can occur with surprising frequency in Tier One cities in EE, many women are already aware of this fact. A little bit of tact can go a long way in avoiding blowouts.

[The Catalyst]

(07-05-2018 06:16 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

Wherever I am, there is a feeling I get, which some people might think is bullshit, and I admit it is a bit out there, but, it's just an instinct... It's a feeling of how "thirsty" in general the girls in a particular town or city are as I go about my daily business...

In the US and the UK, even just 10 years ago, if I dressed on point and looked good, went out in the day, I could get eyefucked one time, or a few times, maybe. Point is, there was a good chance of getting eyefucked and it's not just the eye contact, when you walk past a hot girl and you turn your head and she turns her head too and gives a sly grin (while I curse myself for not approaching), it's just something I got used to.

Now, 10 years before THAT and it was YHT without game or minimal game so stuff that I didn't realize I was doing like just being cool or teasing or "negging" and just good conversation which was enjoyable for me as it was for them, add some basic logistics and escalation. In their "penis roster", girls often had it empty. You just had to be anywhere decent, if you were above average you would kill it. Of course you would have to call their home phone so a lot of meetings were set up on paper like meet X at 4 pm outside Y store. And she would 9/10 times fucking be there.

Now in the US and UK my gut feels pretty much no female thirst, eye contact is non-existent, even if I look better and my "game" is better than all those years ago. To get legit IOIs from an Anglosphere girl I have to meet her in some social context, be witty and charming off the chart, game on subtly but also so hard that I have to push right up until the boundary of a girl going absolutely batshit e.g. mad red face, protests, (from the quiet ones) and shouting, swearing (from the more vocal ones).

As a young guy reading this is it feels real depressing.

[Australia Sucks]

This thread is depressing as fuck! The only good thing is I haven't been to Europe yet so I cannot feel sad about how it has degraded once I actually do get there!

[Teedub]

Very depressing thread, but all true. The SMP is truly fucked due to smartphones and the constant attention women get. Life was so much more fun before internet 2.0. Maybe I'm being nostalgic, but there are many arguments I could make.

Anyway, SEA here I come! Or, go to non-touristy parts of the US, lie and say I'm in a rock band.

[Distant Light]

If I followed @SSLayer advice matching my race age & leveraging my job/status (poor) I'd end up with a fat black chick from the hood trying to poke holes in the condom so she'd get pregnant.

I dislike whiners who are unwilling to grow....
1. Humans will always continue to have sex
2. Modern CULT-ure should have no bearings on your sex life (Simply put you're just NOT THAT GUY yet)
3. Women aren't asexual
4. Social Media isn't REAL LIFE


Granted their is no easier time to get laid and it will only get easier as modern society dogmatic CULT-ures continue to implode. What most seem to complain about is women finding out you are lame with no life other than chasing women in the daytime begging them to have sex.

If the streets & online inboxes are full of homeless beggars of course it's probable a woman will be turned off by MORE BEGGING...

Be better, grow up & stop complaining that the world is nudging you to actually becoming an awesome human being...BUT quality of women is going down? Who cares, this isn't a gender war it's you vs your current self...GROW FOR YOU not for acceptance of some mediocre sex with a chick who's only deeming qualities was a nice ass spotted on her social media page.

People are quick to blame not realizing it's a 2-way street...IG the issue? Why aren't you crushing it on IG then. Is it because all you can show is selfies of yourself & the truth of no actual social life? Many of you guys are well travelled...do you have nothing to show for it other than 15hr day game sessions? Is that the life you aspire to bring these women into?

This whole thread is ironic as this so call "mess up" is YOU GUYS fault. Thirsty? How many times have you done a twist turn generic direct opener...trying to isn't a date...trying to push for a lay? How many have drained tinder dry?

There isn't much I can say due to my limited experience BUT as I say, a fascinating man is a fascinating man regardless of external or cultural dogma that is spun...

Although I had a gf, I went to prague and not even an hour of landing sex was a potential. Invited to an after party, invited to private boat party, invited to a house party & went to a different house party where I was to be the present for the BFF but brought my boy along instead since I had gf...

Chick I purposely self-sabotaged with hooking up (I suggested to buy a bottle then purposely told him will get it later, only for it to be closed when we went with the 2 girls)

She stated I was the most amazing man she'd ever met. It was as if my gf was speaking through her. My boy turned off his girl and they were both on me...

Girl in some smoothie store who we both looked in a "I would LOVE TO MEET" but I did nothing knowing I had a gf...

The theme of prague revolved around "try & avoid getting laid"...

Had I gone their single & no obligations to friends, I would've lived a rather awesome lifestyle and 3 3somes within a week. I did nothing special other than my presence and competency of social navigation.

Only thing that could stop me from getting laid is if the majority of women continue to NOT peak my interest. Seeing a chick I have high attraction for is rare as it comes in phases & also because I've indulged in the past.

During my journey I GREW, not some pseudo "gaming" skill. Even in my boondocks neighborhood, chicks want to fuck...

Had I listen to the model girls back in 2012 to make an IG I'd probably never had ended up in monogamy and would be cleaning up making a "fuck list" out of boredom because of the ease of social & sexual experiences I'd grown into.

Those complaining don't realize how good you have it, all you gotta do is grow up. The real sadness are those with no guidance who cold approach isn't even in their awareness...Escaping into social media, video games & work. Sex for them is like a celebratory highlight in their life.

P.S...Many of you have fucked up in 1st place by being dictated where you ASSUME sex will be easy. Your a slave to pussy and part of the same problem you're crying about...If pussy paradise is you having your 5s bouncing on your cock on a daily basis...Better off just spending all that day game time making money & have the hottest prostitutes service you because threads like this make it sound like people want to take shortcuts to getting laid rather than being that awesome guy women want to fuck.

[Skank_Hunt]

DL pretty much all of your posts on these kinds of threads are low key bragging about your lifestyle, relevant to your sig, and general awesomeness.

Girls have also told me that I'm the most awesome guy they have ever met, but when a girl is deeply in love or particularly infatuated in a brief moment what significance does that hold anyway?

In general your posts have some truth in them but are overall unrealistic to the vast majority of men. You're talking about how you don't have any money yet get invited to private yacht parties on other threads and how you can land in tourist infested cities like Prague and have 3 x threesomes lined up. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you pull it off and that your SMV and game is top 0.1%, you and DigitalNomad should get together sometime as we're talking about that kind of level.

While you're telling guys basically to "stop whining" and "man up", the reality is around us is that 99.9% of guys are not top 1%. Otherwise the travel section of the forum for example wouldn't be so popular. And even if a man's game is great and he is constantly improving his SMV as you not incorrectly suggest, all other things being equal he can go to a better destination and get far better quality, so even experienced guys at the top have complaints about how they used to get far better when they had the same SMV and applied the same game, now even if they have higher SMV and have better game, the deterioration thanks to globalization and this new wave of internet use has outstripped any improvements leading to a net loss in results.

Humans will indeed always continue to have sex, but we're approaching it largely from a nomadic and cold approach perspective, or at least a great % of this site's readership is interested in this avenue of getting women. To say however that modern culture should not affect one's sex life is simply not consistent with reality. If you live in Saudi Arabia, man or woman you will have certain defaults you have to abide by. If you live in Warsaw, there are inescapable patterns to precisely how couples are formed and hence how sex occurs. Women are of course not asexual, but the one thing they arguably need more than sex is attention. And social media gives it to them in bulk, constantly, without the need for her to move let alone give up her goods to any man, whether he approached in a "yacht party" or as a "pussy beggar" on the street. All other things, again, being equal, you now have girls who are hooked on the constant dopamine hits of attention and who are spoiled for choice when it comes to sex. There is far less urgency for them to seek or even "say yes" to a man who even games them competently, because of the fact that she knows at any point she can pick the guy she prefers the most any time she really gets a strong itch to have sex. Finally, as far as social media not being real life, in literal terms it's not, but over just a few short years, I have not seen anything change the way people interact with each other, especially women with men, as profoundly as social media, obviously not in the good sense. Men and women alike, in real life, are addicted to their smartphones and tablets. You then advise men to get their own profiles up to a certain level to match the effect of the female social media profiles under the assumption that social media is a "two way street". Not entirely stupid advice but is naive of the fact that social media is asymmetric when it comes to the SMP. Your average girl posting pics of herself on her IG can be inundated with attention from all over the world. For a male IG to get that equivalent, again, he needs to have something way above average, minor fame being one possibility. When fat, ugly girls are flooded with attention and offers of sex, this does "leak" into real life very heavily and affects all aspects of our dealings with women.

If you are one of the tiny minority of men to not be affected negatively by these quite monumental shifts over the past 5-10 years, and you are not famous, then I don't begrudge you for that success. However you're presenting an inaccurate picture of glorified, gilt-edged "10 Lifestyle Game" that somehow shields you from the realities of the SMP, to which no man is immune.

What @SLSlayer was saying is correct. In actual reality, the vast majority of relationships where a man can date anywhere from just a bit below to a fair bit up are formed in social circles. Very often high school, college, or work. Relative to their SMV and their level of game, high school and early college guys "date up" the most, because they have access the most to age ranges 18-21, the hottest girls, repeatedly through class and school/college related social functions. There is however a "cost" of going to high school (attendance, maintaining grades, gaining popularity) and college (tuition, dorm rent, attendance, maintaining grades, gaining popularity) so these social environments, while golden, are more of a twig by twig bird building a nest sort of strategy. On the other end of the spectrum, @SLSlayer is very correct when he says that cold approach, day game, whatever you want to call it, is heavily "front loaded" and requires not only high SMV but large amounts of effort in actively and directly approaching girls, even if your opener is "indirect", it's irrelevant. You're going straight for the girls. In social circle, for most guys with no money i.e. scrubs to be invited to yacht parties and threesomes, they either have to be a member of the top 0.1% of men who are not famous: extreme naturals which the rest of men no matter how hard they try will never be. That's like telling a good but not extremely gifted high school basketball player that if he trains hard enough, he can become better than LeBron James. No he cannot.

For all his weird lifestyle and his spamming directly or indirectly of european cities, at least Krauser in his latest book gives a very thorough and frank guide to every single stage of what he does. Nothing is hidden. The grind isn't hidden. It's as scientific as cold approach will get. Your posts are as I said above low key brag posts without any real, deep "misses out absolutely nothing" guides. They are just your experiences, if extrapolated to the entire male population as if they can magically replicate what you are doing. Roosh has written bang guides which are realistic in that they address rejection and the difficulties of cold approach. He is also highly intelligent such that if he found a better way to get more sex with higher quality girls he would have found it now. But this whole "build a lifestyle" bragging stuff is actually likely to make guys have unrealistic expectations of themselves and thus feel worse about themselves, rather than motivate them. This is because it neglects to mention the key missing link to this "10 Lifestyle": To build a truly robust social circle to the extent that you have large numbers of cute and hot girls available to you at social circle conversion rates (i.e. far more than the best of "pussy beggars" at 2%), it takes in almost all cases a lot of time, money, and effort.

There are multiple ways to address getting women. Each way has its unique costs and benefits. Each man should choose his own way based on his individual preferences, his individual strengths and weaknesses. Because, in the real world, things tend to even themselves out: the disadvantages of day game are the same thing that push a lot of men to online game, which has its own set of disadvantages, which then push a lot of men to trying the social circle methods, which has its own set of disadvantages too. You cannot escape downsides to every method. Since this forum is heavily based on travel, going to a new city and cold approaching is often required. Real social circles of quality, such as those formed during school years, cannot be realistically penetrated by a random outsider - we are talking adults who have known and grown up together since the age of 3 or 5 years old. To say that an outsider can come in and be seen as "one of them" within what, a few weeks, or a few months, or ever - is frankly deluded. Childhood is something special that when shared tends to form some of the strongest and protective social bonds of all, outside those of blood relatives.

To anyone new reading this thread I would encourage them to do their best but not get too down on themselves when certain places or methods don't turn out as well as expected or as you read in a FR written 5 years ago etc. The decline worldwide is happening fast and to deny that it is there is to mislead fellow members. It helps with acceptance, inner peace and hence how you come across not only to girls but to people in general. If you take DL's posts literally, you will just end up criticizing yourself for things that are actually out of your control.

[ksbms]

(07-08-2018 08:39 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

DL pretty much all of your posts on these kinds of threads are low key bragging about your lifestyle, relevant to your sig, and general awesomeness. [...]

Plus +1 from me for continuously insightful and honest assessment of the realities of game.

[Skank_Hunt]

@ksbms, cheers mate, how's Poland treating you? Haven't seen an update on your travels for a while.

I've noticed the word "depressing" used by The Catalyst, Australia Sucks, and similar words by others in this and other threads. I just want to make it clear, that my intention is not to depress any man looking to improve his station in life. However bad the situation is in many respects, and it is, alas, bad and getting worse (if that is somehow possible)... nonetheless to become depressed to the point that it actually results in either actual mild clinical depression, or just a persistent apathetic "what's the point" view on the world, especially those aspects to do with the pursuit of sex and/or more meaningful relationships with women, will obviously result in lack of action and by default no results at all.

Sure, you can go in the "MGTOW" direction and I would understand the rationale behind such a decision. Then there are more drastic options such as not just withdrawing from interactions with women, but with the whole world in general. Japanese has a special word for these; many of you will have heard the word Hikikomori. I saw a documentary on this and the confined space full of trash, junk and general squalor was truly shocking to me. There are western equivalents of these Hikikomori in many millions, I reckon. Some may have become total recluses regardless of the state of the SMP, but many just don't see any positive future whatsoever, so they give up on life completely, but tend to be too scared to go through with suicide, which is not necessarily that far a step below existing like that.

If you're not going to choose any of the above but not entirely response-wise disproportionate courses of action, then it is of extreme importance to have hope, even if it does seem as if, as men chasing hot young women all over the world, the walls may be closing in with every passing day. When I went to Poland I purposely fed myself with writing now almost a decade old, in order to cultivate hope so that I would be motivated to try my best. I did get two notches but the first one was with a 5-5.5 and the other a decently pretty (but crazy) Ukrainian 6-6.5. I had to grind hard for that. Added to the fact that two girls, one in particular a virgin/near virgin recent transplant from Lublin, the ones I really liked as LTR material, particularly the Lublin girl, I got out on dates but I just couldn't pull it off. Whether it was my game lacking or external factors, it was hugely disappointing. I felt so close but so far to the "sweet, conservative, traditional polka" stereotype. Even the first date was better than banging a dirty slut from a bar or online here in the US. I got a lot of freaky sex during my time in Poland from these two girls but it was clear westernization and smartphone addiction was rampant there. The Lublin girl was an uncanny example: when first I approached her in the day, she had just bought her first smartphone, Android so not as bad as iphone but fully functional, new smartphone nonetheless. She was trying to figure out how to use it. Coincidence that she was the sweetest girl I met there? I don't think so. It was almost like a "throwback" to the way things used to be with foreign girls ~20 years ago that I had as penpals (french and german, as I was studying these at the time). Nowadays it's career women addicted to the constant background noise of pings of male attention on her smartphone.

I could have lost hope knowing that a place I thought would be a poosy paradise was simply not anymore. But I made a point of it to make the best of the situation, extended my trip and did as much sexually as I could until I was a sweating, trembling mess rolled from the bed to the floor, twitching with post-ejaculation muscle contractions. I went out to places with the girls and found simple joys in vastly superior McDonalds and Burger King, because after sex we all get extremely hungry. Burger King was particularly excellent in Poland, with large amounts of real vegetables even in their 5 zl value burgers, of which I ate 5 at a time with XXL fries. I was too busy eating to talk and the girls recognized that so I enjoyed some silence with my unhealthy indulgences.

Were my daygame results what I would ideally want? Nowhere near. You could easily classify the entire thing as a complete disaster. But I learned a lot, from the failed dates I am a lot wiser with these EE conservative LTR types, helped by Krauser's in-depth breakdowns which match my experience i.e. reality. But at least I made the best of it. I tried to get as many positives out of it that I could, despite the city being one of those relevant to the title of this thread. It was my first trip to anywhere east of Germany, and I didn't get on any yacht parties or get anywhere near 3 x threesomes. Even though Poland for game purposes is not easier than the West, in many ways, actually much harder, the only advantages being higher quantity of pretty girls, busted dudes so you have relatively higher SMV. But you still have to go through the approaching and dating process of daygame, so even if a girl thinks you're attractive at a glance, it's another thing entirely to get her into bed and in a relationship if that's what you want.

Once the sting of the disappointment had faded, I picked myself back up and started working on myself at home, also helping the family at home too when it was required. Going to the gym to build some muscle mass? What's the point? Perhaps none but did it and am doing it anyway. Working for US/western pay to get more financially secure. That can't hurt either. Nowhere close but I'm ambitious, trying always to get "fuck you money". Slim chance of that happening but giving it my best. One forum member whose extremely hard work in daygame I respect, despite his numerous past successes and having a legit cute, thin, pleasant polka FB, has expressed some regret that he could have spent the colossal time and effort he spent daygaming and built a successful business. I find that when choosing between money and women it's almost mutually exclusive, even if we're not doing P4P. The only exceptions are guys like Krauser who also get their money by going directly after women and showing other men how to do it.

For us normal guys, we've either got to have a digital nomad sort of business or a good job in the West to finance visiting or living abroad. Hot girls of 18-21 where I live are so rare, hot girls of 18-21 with at least slightly pleasant attitude and lack of full-blown social media addiction? Almost non-existent. The best use of my time in the US is helping my family, working out, learning necessary languages and getting money.

Often I use music to motivate me, especially music which reminds me of better times, when smartphones did not exist. A lot of these songs are from when I was growing up, and it just so happens I had the sweetest, most feminine girls then, unspoilt by feminism and the internet 2.0. I was passionate about not only hip-hop but also R&B and I would dig and dig for rare music, which was much harder to access than it would be nowadays. I would share CDs and mixtapes with guys and girls alike, and some of these girls were so easy to hook up with, not because of my awesome "game", it just happened naturally. They liked me, and I genuinely liked them and complimented them on their excellent music taste. Everyone will remember R Kelly's Ignition (Remix) as his hit single from the 2003 album Chocolate Factory, the sequel to the eerily predictive album titled TP2.com(reference to his older 1993 album "12 Play" and the rise of the internet), but at the time such was the anticipation of "Chocolate Factory" that a lot of other songs for this album were leaked. I found out at the time that R Kelly had originally planned to release an album called Loveland, but that was canceled due to the leak and Chocolate Factory made instead. I took great joy in explaining this to my friends and the girls who liked R Kelly's music, that I had a super-exclusive rare R Kelly CD that was never supposed to see the light of day.

One of the songs on the unreleased Loveland was a near 10 minute Remix/Sequel to the old classic I Believe I Can Fly. It was simply called Fly. I still use this, and songs like it, to give me (perhaps blind) hope that as long as I keep working, I will achieve something great in the end. Even if due to factors outside of my control it's not what I initially had planned, making the best of a bad situation - adapting - is something my first foray into EE has taught me and hopefully it will pay off in the end.

[Perspicacity]

You know, for all my time lurking here on and off here for over five years now, I don't recall anyone calling out DL for Big Baller Trolling.

I'm really not a fan of the growing trend whereby witch hunts are started on members who refuse to meet other members -- there's many, many reasons that guys could legitimately not want to meet anybody.

That said: Dude has 61 rep points off 450 posts over 7 years. Most/all of them for alleged expertise on 'high-end nightlife' and 'lifestyle game'. Zero from meeting people, and only one from a guy saying 'This is what I do already and confirm it works.'

One must distinguish between rep points made for giving step-by-step breakdowns that people have gone and tried and found work, versus rep points given for claiming something works, but which is extremely hard to test and therefore remains merely plausible. (...versus rep points given for echoing one's existing opinions, or regurgitating Red Pill 101, or for posting funny GIF's, or ...)

This DL, RSD Luke 'high-end social circle/nightlife' stuff falls into the latter category. Pretty much nobody is going to end up having the combination of inclination, discipline, and means to pursue the level of social life that DL / RSD Luke are claiming. Even if somebody tried and failed, there can always be some reason to brush off their efforts:

PUA has a big problem with (and has for a very long time had issues with) guys who come up with whole edifices of plausible-sounding theory that is basically impossible to falsify, but this whole 'high-end social circle' gimmick is a particularly pernicious manifestation.

"You weren't going to the right parties brah."

"People picked up on the vibe you were taking value, not giving, brah." (Unfalsifiable.)

"You were in the wrong city."

etc.

As Skank says, and as I noted as the final conclusion of my March post on the current state of (day)game (and many other things), it's important that we take what guys like DL say with a pinch of salt, lest they demoralize us -- even if their claims are true, they simply don't apply to any of their readers.

Look, I can very well conceive that what DL says could be true, at least in qualitative terms, even if it turned out to be exaggerated in magnitude 100x (which it might not be).

I'll buy him a drink and he can explain to me why I'm wrong if his Big Baller Lifestyle brings him through London -- which it assuredly would if true. I might be completely off-base and one of the veterans who is also an actual, verified OG will check my ass and vouch for DL. In which case I'll be suitably humbled and will most certainly have egg on my face.

No hate here.

But that doesn't mean it's not Big Baller Trolling.

Big Baller Troll checkboxes that DL ticks:

- Extraordinary claims (threesomes, fucking more world-class-looks chicks than even numerically exist).

- Comes into random threads to shit on people keeping it real on that 'Na na you guys are losers I'm getting blown by an 11 as I'm typing.' ish. (Notice how he also rolled into ksbms's Praha thread to drive-by Big Baller Troll.)

- No in-person rep corroborating his claims to godhood.

- Never BREAKS IT THE FUCK DOWN -- always keeps it tantalizingly vague so that you can't falsify his shit, but fools you into thinking he's giving specific, actionable advice.

Notice that even though those are defining Big Baller Troll behaviours, none of them actually imply falsehood.

The biggest red flag here is that he's selling the stuff he's trolling with -- he has a direct financial incentive to exaggerate (or completely fabricate) his lifestyle, and to avoid meeting anybody who could shed light on this exaggeration.

The more time I've spent floating around PUA sites / the manosphere, the more I've become suspicious when there's this kind of incentive structure. As the daygame community has shown with the vast majority of guys faking or misrepresenting in-fields: Pretty much everybody with a monetary (or even just status/insecurity) incentive is making shit up.

Dude is making more outlandish claims, with more of a monetary incentive, than NTP ever did. Sketchy as fuck.

Maybe in one of my long absences from lurking somebody vouched for DL. Or oppositely, maybe he already got called out as a BBT / probable fake, and I missed it, and he's just hanging around having narrowly avoided a ban.

It's a standard formula really: Target guys with a vulnerability/insecurity around getting laid (which PUA forums, and threads like this in particular, select for). Big Baller Troll them, but not too obviously. Make it look like you're providing actionable advice while actually being vague to encourage buying your unfalsifiable products.

I haven't had that vibe from DL in the past, but his recent posting is making it seem more likely.

I also can't help but note the irony in DL Big Baller Trolling daygame threads where we've mentioned vibe-tapping as rife in the game community.

Vibe-tapping a thread about vibe-tapping...

Notice how much of this could be thrown at a guy like Krauser. A key difference (other than the obvious one of him being vetted and meeting people) is (again as Skank noted) that he BREAKS HIS SHIT DOWN.

I must admit some amount of exasperation that the Gman had/has so many haters and doubters, despite the fact that he was always having to call people out for not BREAKING SHIT DOWN, and led by example on this. (Probably a big part of why he left the forum.)

Meanwhile I've never seen anybody call DL out.

I wonder if this is symptomatic of a deeper fission.

At the risk of begging the question, permit me to use 'pure game' to refer to the kind of playing field-levelling stuff that e.g. Mystery, Style, Roissy, Roosh have written about. Doesn't depend on specific material things, physical attributes, social circle, etc.

The old-school pure gamers were all about BREAKING SHIT DOWN.

BREAKING SHIT DOWN is pretty much all they did.

Notice how BREAKING SHIT DOWN is pretty much the opposite of what Big Baller Trolls and 'lifestyle gurus' do.

I see a direct correlation between the purity of game, and how much value the associated culture places on BREAKING SHIT DOWN.

Nowadays I'm literally tempted to rep people just for making a single, actual 'pure game' post nowadays. The thirst for actual gamesmanship is real.

Make RVF BREAKING SHIT DOWN again.

[Skank_Hunt]

@Perspicacity - the post you made a long while ago which you referred to was stellar, for those who had the patience to read it. The observation that daygame may only be acceptably efficient for a tiny, tiny minority who attempt it, which usually involves an almost psychotic determination and obsession with this form of game and/or the fact that it is not only a means of getting women, but a means of getting money (so Krauser, Torero, Street Attraction, and all the other coaches who run smaller operations). Note that in the majority of cases, as per the original theme of this thread, irrespective of whether cities in EE have declined massively for daygame as a result of PUAs and turkish and arab sex/love tourists or by smartphones/internet 2.0, even then daygame was low % conversion rates and had an extremely high turnover rates i.e. 99% of guys quit pretty soon, because, even prior to smartphones and foreign hordes, the act of cold approaching attractive women during the day hundreds of times, thousands over the course of a few years, is just too painful for 99% of men.

Krauser and Torero and Jabba and co apparently stuck with it when smartphones hadn't taken over completely, when the foreign hordes hadn't ruined things completely, but they were still dealing with all the same shit that daygamers deal with today: AA, dating, flakes, logistics, working to earn money to even have the "opportunity" to daygame in an EE location etc.

The difficulty with daygame nowadays compared to, say, 2014, is a matter of degree. Smartphones existed, but they weren't as influential as they are today. Foreign sex/love tourists and local perception thereof existed, but it was less unfavorable. All matters of degree. There comes a point, therefore, to which Perspicacity alluded in the link of his old post above, we must consider whether daygame is efficient for the average man, even with high SMV, rather than oddities like Krauser, because he both enjoys it and also earns a living from it. Not to put Krauser on blast here but didn't Bodi say Krauser never washes his hands after taking a piss or taking a shit? This guy is hardly representative of the general male population.

For me, subjectively, one thing that I have discovered about daygame is that, while quality of your leads will be higher than online or night game, the thing that is disappointing is the "good girl via daygame" story. I hesitate to call it a "myth" as it can happen, I suppose, but most of Krauser's model is directed towards girls who are already on some level up for some "adventure sex", often while they have boyfriends. Daygame as a tool to meet a unicorn in EE? That would be my dream. Maybe possible if you went through 1000-2000 approaches on girls who look like they have potential. But... as with any cold approach, most girls are going to be unavailable. The best quality girls (morally) usually are already taken and are more K than r in their choices.

As for the DL issue, I don't really want any forum drama and didn't really see it as "calling him out". My post was made on the basis that this is a thread about daygame, and about the two main things that are making it more difficult as time goes by over EE. My reason for posting was to encourage guys out there doing day time cold approach in EE, particularly solo, because it's already extremely hard, without someone (DL or anyone else, it doesn't matter) coming in and talking about how this or that is easy. I vaguely remember a post from a forum member in which he met Roosh, and Roosh said something along the lines of "no matter how long you've been in the game, you always have to work". Note that it is not an exact quote but you get the meaning. If you're in EE and you have no social circle, indeed in many cultures which are quite insular due to their history and reputation of foreigners (Poland), then you're not going to stroll into the city and suddenly have a phone full of hot leads. In fact, quite the opposite. The moment you stop approaching, your leads stop coming in. The reality is that it's a grind which is not only intellectual e.g. office work that is "difficult", but crucially intense emotions are involved as well, which force you to take a long, hard look in the mirror. Your entire self-perception of your soul will be questioned. So when a guy rolling in claiming multiple threesomes and yacht parties after stepping off the plane, whether true or not for him as an individual (as I said I am even assuming what he is saying is somehow 100% real), it still hinders rather than helps 99.9% of members grinding it out in EE. When you do daygame in EE there is already enough self-criticism, especially if you compare your experiences to those of a decade or more ago declaring PP, then to compare yourself to magically integrating within a matter of weeks and doing all sorts of top 0.1% stuff... it's only going to discourage you, possibly to the point of giving up. Hell, Torero comes across to me (and from what I've heard) as a sneaky, amoral degenerate, but even he in his book admits that the default is failure, and the successes are the glorious exceptions.

As for "breaking shit down", if you haven't already you will like Krauser's new book on daygame.

Ultimately, in the future, I think each of us has to find his own way. This is because if some methods are shared to the masses, they no longer become effective in the long-term. If you're doing awesome in some way, keep it to yourself. Unless, I guess, you are a PUA in which case you have to make your money somehow. But even with Krauser's previous book Daygame Mastery, there were too many abstractions of "the model" and not really "breaking shit down". Like Mystery Method M3 Model was a decent guideline, it failed so much in real-life tests, even when the girl was available and into you. Often PUAs do certain things that they don't share in their books, little things, that mean the difference between failure and success, so they give you a credible yet ultimately incomplete model. The specific nature of what PUAs tell you fools you into thinking they are telling you everything, but often they are not. DL's vague grandiose posts are just a more obvious version of what a lot of PUAs selling you their methods write in their books.

[Putin Closes]

Its the smartphone age, adapt or die. I play niche game in Europe, girls who like EA guys (small percentage) will almost always swipe right. But I've found tinder in Western Europe to be much more difficult than even a year ago for online. The EEUU will soon catch up. You have to own your niche, even 6's who use online dating have insane expectations.

[bojangles]

nice posts from you both. You'll find it difficult to find people who break shit down nowadays because if as we say the market is getting tougher than many who discover new ways to get through are just going to start keeping it to themselves.

[Malo]

(07-11-2018 12:16 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

Ultimately, in the future, I think each of us has to find his own way.

As if ever in the past, reading a book about pickup and just "doing what it said" worked. Never has and never will.

[goldmember]

you can't get more saturated than Poland, Jesus, it seems unless you have a very unique approach, and you are better looking than her previous openers, then she can't even be bothered to talk to you

[sterlingarcher]

I'm in a EE city at the moment, and there's a noticeable influx of players every weekend, especially now the weather's getting warmer.

But there's an element of selective perception.

Most of them just muddy the waters.

There are ten times more scando tourists every weekend.

[Green-On-GO]

Maybe it's because of arrogance.Expecting everyone to speak English in their own country..Peope get pissed off with this.

And guys can't pick up in their own language but expect to pick up speaking pigeon English.

I learnt in Czech and Hungary that the language opened up the market more...I met Yank and Brit blokes who spoke the language who built up a niche or local social circle doing really well.

I do well with Yanks, Brits and Scandi because of the language not my looks.Most Scandi speak English like native speakers

[Robert High Hawk]

In my moderate experience, more than any "PUA" influx, Stag/Bachelor parties are killing off the charm of certain EE cities. The sheer obnoxiousness of the groups will kill off any indirect approaching, as well as dirty the waters for all any english speaking guy. As soon as you open up your mouth you are pegged as one of them and it makes life harder.

That said, second tier EE cities will largely have NONE of the PUA/Stag/bachelor party influx. It's either all or nothing with most western Tourists. The key is to find the right niche city and find a way to crack in there. Roosh has written often how the increasing ease of travel has effectively democratized all the world's remotely famous destinations. There are no more easy wins. Either put more effort and risk into traveling to unknown places, or put more effort into your game in the now popular places.