[WestIndianArchie]

(09-14-2016 10:07 AM)S3K2 Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 06:40 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 05:22 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  

Yeah, a DTF girl you can pull in 2-3 hours or less. Normal I'd say is the more 7-hr rule, at least as far as I'm concerned. If you get really good at screening out red light girls, your odds of a fast lay go way up.

If everything is perfect, 5-10 minutes if you have the balls to do it.

I'm not so much about odds.
I don't think game is a "numbers" game.
At least that hasn't been my experience, though it may be for some.

WIA

Interested with your thoughts on why you don't think game is a numbers game? My experience says it is. Although my game has got a lot better and increased my pull rate substantially, the theory still stands, if I don't talk to enough woman I won't get laid. I feel no matter how good your game is, if a woman ain't feeling you or in the mood, she ain't having it.

Not to be unfriendly, because you're derailing my thread with your anti game propaganda but it's because i actually have GAME.

When I talk to a broad, I know what she going to say, I know what her body language is going to be. I know what's going to make her smile, frown, laugh, etc. I get her psychology and behavior. That's what game is. It's knowing her mind, and doing shit to get at her on that level.

My game is not passive.
Its active. I do, those other guys just "be"

And all things considered, my game is decent but not stellar. However, I'm not depending on extraneous factors.

There was a time that a full beard was not attractive. There was a time that tribal tattoos were all the rage. Lot of girls think that meatheads are apes. Look too intimidating, and you have to back pedal your vibe.

I'm not sure exactly when this forum became anti game, or ignorant of what game is - but what i see a whole lot of here
- workout and nutrition tips
- targeting recent immigrants and tourists
- literal algorithm hacking for dating sites
- searching the globe for places where you just show up, and girls throw themselves at you

That stuff will get you laid, but it doesn't teach you anything about persuasion or seduction.

It's all surface level stuff, which is why is why you need big numbers to be less random.

Applying psychology to suspects is how you get confessions.

Using psychiatry techniques can lead to a patient's mental breakthrough

There's a reason why the used car salesman let's you test drive the car first.

So applying psychology in all of these other arenas is how things get done

But here, despite all the evidence around us, pulling bitches is a numbers game on rvf.

I don't get it. I already know my days here are numbered because of the overall anti game mentality.

It's why guys robotically say "Agree and Amplify".

It's not that that the game knowledge is at a low level here - that's okay - it's that there is an unwillingness to acknowledge the existence of game. Much less test and apply. Or in the case of this thread, think deeply about one's own experiences and extrapolate.

But since this thread is essentially done, lemme end with this

This is an average guy at the spots that I learned game in



He's a fairly good looking dude.
He obviously works out
He's not poor, but probably not balling
Yet I wouldn't be surprised if he had a 2014 Challenger on decent rims in the paying parking lot.

Far More SMV than most of the guys here, far more than is even possible for the typical rvf reader.

How do you compete with guys like this?

Only an idiot goes head to head with a guy trying to do the same thing that he's doing and has a clear head start with.

But that's the current state of "game" advice.

Look like this guy, and you'll get all the bitches brah



And essentially this is what GQ and Men's Fitness tells you to do. Those rags are as blue pill as they get...

That's what broads do, they get on diets, dress better, maximize their visual appeal - but the difference is that men only care about looks.

Women care about other shit than looks.

It's not that women don't care about looks, but these Nubian Gods can have a chick moist one day, because he's so "alpha" and a week later his unchanged physique is not enough to keep her mentally satisfied. Nobody tells you that shit. Nobody talks about fucking a chick who's main guy looks like the incredible hulk, or has more money than Bill Gates.

I'll just replace her, durr..

You never had her, your stuff had her.

So for dudes telling you about SMV, and it's a numbers game - They aren't mentally engaging bitches. There's no psychology involved. It's all look better and talk to more bitches

They don't have game, and can't even fathom that it exists much less it working.

So that's why game isn't about numbers.

WIA

[redbeard]

[Travel Museums]

Hey Archie I get what your saying. But you're asking about something that has less to do with game and more to do with seizing opportunities. Here my take.

Basically fast pulls skip the seduction. It's there as some kind of subtext I guess but you're obviously not really engaging in a typical seduction.

If Game is like going door to door trying to sell your cock. Then fast pulls are finding an open door and walking right on in and finding no one to stop you just wondering on up to the bedroom. Oops!

If fast pulls were something that can be taught via seduction we'd be seeing a lot more of them. But even to guys with 500 notches I'm guessing they're fast pulls are a small minority.

That said there are ways to increase your propensity for fast pulls. Basically it's a matter of logistics and opportunity for isolation. Doesn't have to be your home. Maybe an alley (she's very likely going to need to be drunk).

If you think my salesman analogy sounds like a numbers game I mean it more like having to approach and assess a lot of women. Sometimes we just assess them from afar without approaching and don't bother. She's fat, ugly, bad vibe, whatever. But that's still numbers game if you think about it. Game works better with a large pool of women.

So yeah...You still need to at least be around a lot of women for game. So in that regard it is a numbers game. But I get your point. If you take that attitude why bother seducing women at all. Just approach until you find one who's down to fuck.

On the other hand what if you actually see a chick you like but she somehow is not a great target or not DTF. Well sure you better have some decent game to bed her. But isn't that outcome dependent. It's certainly a time investment to run a decent seduction.

It will probably help if she doesn't see you approaching other chicks like a numbers game bc it makes you look like a player (unless maybe every girl is all over you and you turn them away). So there's another strike against numbers game.

I think it also hurts your performance to have a numbers frame in these encounters too. For instance when I approach a hotter woman I often give up bc I'm confident I can approach other women and get laid with less effort. Put me in front of said chick in a less target rich environment and I'll become a lot more invested in putting on a good attract + seduction. Maybe even if it takes 1-2 hours. I know my options are limited so I'm willing to invest more in one girl.

Put me in a target rich environment (or even state of mind) I'm gonna number close and bail. It's a catch-22 I Ive been considering myself last few weeks after night gaming daily.

I think the key is to SCREEN. When I meet a girl I try to find out where she's staying. Who she's with. How does she know them. What they're all getting into. Etc. As im doing that I'm testing her openness and reactions to me. Her compliance and attraction levels. I'm going to try to move her asap. I'm going to see how far I can move her. I'm going to to do a whole lot of other things that create an opportunity for a fast pull but shouldn't interfere too much should I at some point decide she's worth investing more effort into.

From my experience I think most women who tolerate you for more than a minute do at some level want you to find a way fuck them. They just don't want to have to take any responsibility for it happening. Nor do they want to risk social or medical repercussions. If your game is decent you can deal with all that in a few hours. But at the same always be closing. Look for opportunities to isolate and rapidly escalate.

[XXL]

(09-14-2016 11:41 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I'm not sure exactly when this forum became anti game, or ignorant of what game is - but what i see a whole lot of here
- workout and nutrition tips
- targeting recent immigrants and tourists
- literal algorithm hacking for dating sites
- searching the globe for places where you just show up, and girls throw themselves at you

That stuff will get you laid, but it doesn't teach you anything about persuasion or seduction.

It's all surface level stuff, which is why is why you need big numbers to be less random.

Applying psychology to suspects is how you get confessions.

Using psychiatry techniques can lead to a patient's mental breakthrough

There's a reason why the used car salesman let's you test drive the car first.

So applying psychology in all of these other arenas is how things get done

But here, despite all the evidence around us, pulling bitches is a numbers game on rvf.

I don't get it. I already know my days here are numbered because of the overall anti game mentality.

It's why guys robotically say "Agree and Amplify".

It's not that that the game knowledge is at a low level here - that's okay - it's that there is an unwillingness to acknowledge the existence of game. Much less test and apply. Or in the case of this thread, think deeply about one's own experiences and extrapolate.

But since this thread is essentially done, lemme end with this

This is an average guy at the spots that I learned game in



He's a fairly good looking dude.
He obviously works out
He's not poor, but probably not balling
Yet I wouldn't be surprised if he had a 2014 Challenger on decent rims in the paying parking lot.

Far More SMV than most of the guys here, far more than is even possible for the typical rvf reader.

How do you compete with guys like this?

Only an idiot goes head to head with a guy trying to do the same thing that he's doing and has a clear head start with.

But that's the current state of "game" advice.

Look like this guy, and you'll get all the bitches brah



And essentially this is what GQ and Men's Fitness tells you to do. Those rags are as blue pill as they get...

That's what broads do, they get on diets, dress better, maximize their visual appeal - but the difference is that men only care about looks.

Women care about other shit than looks.

It's not that women don't care about looks, but these Nubian Gods can have a chick moist one day, because he's so "alpha" and a week later his unchanged physique is not enough to keep her mentally satisfied. Nobody tells you that shit. Nobody talks about fucking a chick who's main guy looks like the incredible hulk, or has more money than Bill Gates.

I'll just replace her, durr..

You never had her, your stuff had her.

So for dudes telling you about SMV, and it's a numbers game - They aren't mentally engaging bitches. There's no psychology involved. It's all look better and talk to more bitches

They don't have game, and can't even fathom that it exists much less it working.

So that's why game isn't about numbers.

WIA

That's manosphere game in a nutshell

Look fly. Go for girls who choose you. Escalate. If it fails? Next her.

As for you question.. I'm 100% sure that you [and all of us] lost bangs by playing slow from the beginning because we thought it's more reliable this way.

To certain extent it is safer to go slower. On the other hand we have absolutely no idea where we stand with a girl at the first "hi" therefore we go in with an assumption that "slower = better". It's US who set that frame for the whole interaction without even knowing it. But what is a girl supposed to do? A girl does what girls do. She adapts. Then we complain that they play hard to get, that it takes too long, etc.

Great sabotage.

I lost girls by going too slow. However I can't recall when I lost [repelled, put off] a girl by going going faster with full intent. I created some social turbulence, I crossed a few lines, I revealed my cards, that's true but still I wouldn't say that intent destroyed my chances in any way.

[Rocha]

Scanning the girl is the key. Hard to explain, this come with experience and many guys over here have better skills with words than me.

I banged a few times in the WC of clubs after a 5 minute talk and a 2 minute makeout (more or less, but I do not do "heavy makeouts"). My last night pull was a chick that I approached briefly only to be cockblocked by mine and her male friends, at the exit she was seated at the park bench just outside the club, bored and waiting for someone, just gave her my arm to grab and asked her where she lived, it was on my way so she accepted my ride home, half-way I asked if instead she do not wanted to go to my place for a white wine, she agreed, put my hand in her leg while driving and did not spoke too much to not fuck up. While at home, served two glasses of wine...and did not had time to drink...straight to bang. All natural, just like it was another day at the office.

Other girls I had to put up with their shitty talk for 3 or 4 hours, only to decide that it was time to act and start licking and kissing on the back of their neck, followed again by a short (more or less 2 minutes...))) makeout, then directly home for the bang...

Yes, Game exists and works, but I believe a guy will only have game after much trial and error... and this only comes with numbers game, not by simply following other guy's advice.

[redbeard]

I've been thinking about WIA's post all day. I've been heavily invested in the "numbers game" theory for a while, and didn't get what he was saying, but then it clicked.

At the end of the day, it's "a game." Let's compare it to basketball.

"Numbers game" = Walk into an empty gym, shoot 100 free throws, hope you get a few in, go home and repeat tomorrow.

Game = Michael Jordan. Does MJ walk into the gym and "hope" to get buckets? No, because he actually has GAME.

[blck]

(09-14-2016 09:01 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

I've been thinking about WIA's post all day. I've been heavily invested in the "numbers game" theory for a while, and didn't get what he was saying, but then it clicked.

At the end of the day, it's "a game." Let's compare it to basketball.

"Numbers game" = Walk into an empty gym, shoot 100 free throws, hope you get a few in, go home and repeat tomorrow.

Game = Michael Jordan. Does MJ walk into the gym and "hope" to get buckets? No, because he actually has GAME.

Great Analogy but I would say something more like...

Number Game would be:

Game would be :


Or :

[S3K2]

(09-14-2016 11:41 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:07 AM)S3K2 Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 06:40 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 05:22 PM)DonnyGately Wrote:  

Yeah, a DTF girl you can pull in 2-3 hours or less. Normal I'd say is the more 7-hr rule, at least as far as I'm concerned. If you get really good at screening out red light girls, your odds of a fast lay go way up.

If everything is perfect, 5-10 minutes if you have the balls to do it.

I'm not so much about odds.
I don't think game is a "numbers" game.
At least that hasn't been my experience, though it may be for some.

WIA

Interested with your thoughts on why you don't think game is a numbers game? My experience says it is. Although my game has got a lot better and increased my pull rate substantially, the theory still stands, if I don't talk to enough woman I won't get laid. I feel no matter how good your game is, if a woman ain't feeling you or in the mood, she ain't having it.

Not to be unfriendly, because you're derailing my thread with your anti game propaganda but it's because i actually have GAME.

When I talk to a broad, I know what she going to say, I know what her body language is going to be. I know what's going to make her smile, frown, laugh, etc. I get her psychology and behavior. That's what game is. It's knowing her mind, and doing shit to get at her on that level.

My game is not passive.
Its active. I do, those other guys just "be"

And all things considered, my game is decent but not stellar. However, I'm not depending on extraneous factors.

There was a time that a full beard was not attractive. There was a time that tribal tattoos were all the rage. Lot of girls think that meatheads are apes. Look too intimidating, and you have to back pedal your vibe.

I'm not sure exactly when this forum became anti game, or ignorant of what game is - but what i see a whole lot of here
- workout and nutrition tips
- targeting recent immigrants and tourists
- literal algorithm hacking for dating sites
- searching the globe for places where you just show up, and girls throw themselves at you

That stuff will get you laid, but it doesn't teach you anything about persuasion or seduction.

It's all surface level stuff, which is why is why you need big numbers to be less random.

Applying psychology to suspects is how you get confessions.

Using psychiatry techniques can lead to a patient's mental breakthrough

There's a reason why the used car salesman let's you test drive the car first.

So applying psychology in all of these other arenas is how things get done

But here, despite all the evidence around us, pulling bitches is a numbers game on rvf.

I don't get it. I already know my days here are numbered because of the overall anti game mentality.

It's why guys robotically say "Agree and Amplify".

It's not that that the game knowledge is at a low level here - that's okay - it's that there is an unwillingness to acknowledge the existence of game. Much less test and apply. Or in the case of this thread, think deeply about one's own experiences and extrapolate.

But since this thread is essentially done, lemme end with this

This is an average guy at the spots that I learned game in



He's a fairly good looking dude.
He obviously works out
He's not poor, but probably not balling
Yet I wouldn't be surprised if he had a 2014 Challenger on decent rims in the paying parking lot.

Far More SMV than most of the guys here, far more than is even possible for the typical rvf reader.

How do you compete with guys like this?

Only an idiot goes head to head with a guy trying to do the same thing that he's doing and has a clear head start with.

But that's the current state of "game" advice.

Look like this guy, and you'll get all the bitches brah



And essentially this is what GQ and Men's Fitness tells you to do. Those rags are as blue pill as they get...

That's what broads do, they get on diets, dress better, maximize their visual appeal - but the difference is that men only care about looks.

Women care about other shit than looks.

It's not that women don't care about looks, but these Nubian Gods can have a chick moist one day, because he's so "alpha" and a week later his unchanged physique is not enough to keep her mentally satisfied. Nobody tells you that shit. Nobody talks about fucking a chick who's main guy looks like the incredible hulk, or has more money than Bill Gates.

I'll just replace her, durr..

You never had her, your stuff had her.

So for dudes telling you about SMV, and it's a numbers game - They aren't mentally engaging bitches. There's no psychology involved. It's all look better and talk to more bitches

They don't have game, and can't even fathom that it exists much less it working.

So that's why game isn't about numbers.

WIA

So let me see if I get this right Archie. Your saying dudes are not applying game at a psychological level to almost guarantee the pull? Like you, I consider my game good but not great. Holding these bitches hands while I chat em up is comparable to the analogy you used as a car salesman allowing you to test drive the car first. So I feel I am hitting these chicks with some strong psyc game and getting them moist with the kino and precise wording I still take the stand that not every chick is going home with you no matter how good your game is. Therefore game is a numbers game. The day you spit game and have a 100% pull rate is the day game is no longer a numbers game. So far, No one has done this.

Now I agree with you that too many people (especially on this board) is too focused on the "self improvement part of the game" other than the true psychology of game. Theirs so many things people are missing like, a few shit tests and next her. I disagree. I've been with some true 9's and let me tell you it's a fucking mission pulling them. Anyone who been with a 9 knows what I mean. They act different even when there panties are wet. So I agree with the whole losing focus with the aspect of game but disagree with you archie that game is in fact a numbers game. That will never change, However, hanging in there with those high caliber woman is a must to get the pull. My bad, I know this was a fast pull thread and my intentions were not to derail this thread, it is a very good thread and this will be my last post on it.

[WestIndianArchie]

(09-15-2016 07:03 PM)S3K2 Wrote:  

So let me see if I get this right Archie. Your saying dudes are not applying game at a psychological level to almost guarantee the pull? Like you, I consider my game good but not great. Holding these bitches hands while I chat em up is comparable to the analogy you used as a car salesman allowing you to test drive the car first. So I feel I am hitting these chicks with some strong psyc game and getting them moist with the kino and precise wording I still take the stand that not every chick is going home with you no matter how good your game is. Therefore game is a numbers game. The day you spit game and have a 100% pull rate is the day game is no longer a numbers game. So far, No one has done this.

Now I agree with you that too many people (especially on this board) is too focused on the "self improvement part of the game" other than the true psychology of game. Theirs so many things people are missing like, a few shit tests and next her. I disagree. I've been with some true 9's and let me tell you it's a fucking mission pulling them. Anyone who been with a 9 knows what I mean. They act different even when there panties are wet. So I agree with the whole losing focus with the aspect of game but disagree with you archie that game is in fact a numbers game. That will never change, However, hanging in there with those high caliber woman is a must to get the pull. My bad, I know this was a fast pull thread and my intentions were not to derail this thread, it is a very good thread and this will be my last post on it.