[RexImperator]

In the back of my mind I've always had the idea that the ideal life would be living in some kind of agricultural community where you could have a large family who stayed somewhat close by. Does anyone else think about this?

[Going strong]

(09-09-2016 04:30 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

In the back of my mind I've always had the idea that the ideal life would be living in some kind of agricultural community where you could have a large family who stayed somewhat close by. Does anyone else think about this?

Relevant to your interest - try Russia's far-East settlement program, soon to be opened to non-Russian citizens:

http://rbth.com/business/2016/09/09/free...ast_628575

"Build a hotel, open an eco-village… or keep bees

Under the new law, the residents of the Far East may apply for a free hectare of land until February 2017, and thereafter the practice will spread to all the inhabitants of Russia.

Any citizen of the country will be able to get free land in the Far East, as long as the new plot is developed within five years. It is enough to open a company, to build a house or a hotel – then the land will be transferred to the ownership. If the plot remains undeveloped, then it will need to be returned to the state.

According to Stepanov, the owners of the first plots mainly plan to engage in agriculture, including beekeeping, but there are several projects to create ecovillages for the development of eco-tourism."

[debeguiled]

How would you get over the culture shock?

[Cattle Rustler]

Those plot of land are not the most desirable spots. Get ready for the hordes of mosquitoes during summer.

[Going strong]

(09-09-2016 04:43 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

How would you get over the culture shock?

Well, to begin with, you'd have to learn Russian or have a Russian wife (and-or Russian business partner). But the Russian State would protect you, to showcase this program.

But granted, if you have never lived in a farm, it'd be difficult at times, especially in Winter, sure. But, what an adventure!

Regarding the mosquitoes, you either dry out their stagnant water sources (think pouring sand into the marsh), or start a bat farm. Where there's a problem, there's a solution!

[RexImperator]

I would think that Ukraine has better farmland. It was known as the "breadbasket" of the Soviet Union.

[BrewDog]

(09-09-2016 04:38 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

Relevant to your interest - try Russia's far-East settlement program, soon to be opened to non-Russian citizens:

"The law prohibits foreign nationals from obtaining land for free..."

[BrewDog]

Does anyone wanna save up their money and go do this together? I have a few grand that I'll pitch in. It sounds fun.

[Kona]

(09-17-2016 09:47 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

Does anyone wanna save up their money and go do this together? I have a few grand that I'll pitch in. It sounds fun.

If I get to be the leader I'm in.

I have about 90 acres near Laie on Oahu that would be perfect for our compound. There's tons of fundamentalist Mormons up there that we could network with.

Let me know.

Aloha!

[Leonard D Neubache]

A group that call themselves the Iron Legion have set out to do this.

Some of the process was covered in this pro-patricarchy blog:

http://www.thisblogisdangerous.com/

It hasn't been updated in a while so it's hard to say how it's all going, but oddly enough it was that blog that directed me to ROK and thereafter to this forum. They covered the furious outrage over the ROK meetups with interest, noting as many people here did that the powers that be are terrified of the possiblity that groups might form up in real life rather than simply remaining semi-anonymous bitchfests across the interwebs.

[debeguiled]

A good writer who has covered this topic really well is Dmitry Orlov. Thinking about it logically, like the engineer he is, Orlov starts out by looking for small communities that not only form, but survive over the generations within larger cultures. Some of them are agricultural, some are not.

There is too much to summarize, as this is a pretty big topic, so I will link to the first of his posts on the subject, and anyone who is interested can take it from there:

Communities That Abide Part One

He looks for the common features among these groups, with a view towards trying to start your own community in preparation for civil unrest. What are the qualities necessary for a group like this?

Most of the groups have strong traditions handed down over generations, and for many, the operating cohesion is religious in nature.

If you wanted to join a group like this, Orlov's articles are a good place to start to get thinking about the deeper issues.

It would make the most sense to go and join a group that already exists that aligns with your beliefs, I would think, because starting something like this from scratch, well, how would you do it? What would hold it together? Family? Religion? Politics? I have a feeling a lot of bonds between people, even friends and family, are weaker than we think, and community building would bring out a lot of these things.

Parenthetically,there is actually a pretty funny video of Orlov trying to give a talk about this topic at a conference, and he gets ambushed by a bunch of feminists trying to take him down for not including matriarchal examples and you know the rest. Anyway, Orlov is a serious, unruffled Russian with a dry sense of humor and he takes the women out to the woodshed without them even knowing it:

So, a pretty Red Pill dude. Very realistic assessment of what sort of community will survive during hard times.

The second part of this topic is trying to start one of your own communities, and Orlov has covered that too. Here is an audio interview where he enumerates what you would need to create your own abiding community:

Dmitry Orlov 150 Strong Interview

Transcript of this interview is here, with added arguments, clarifications, and comments:

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/09/ku...cript.html

My personal opinion is that embarking on community building, or even joining is an immense task with a lot to think about before you sign on, and I would imagine that most communities built from scratch are doomed to fail.

Orlov's writing is good place to start, I don't know if he even has the answers, just that it will for sure stimulate your mind on the topic.

And if you have no interest in the topic, watch the video for fun. It is hilarious to see a naturally masculine man take down a bunch of bozo feminists.

[BrewDog]

I'm a libertarian capitalist, but I was fascinated the first time I watched "The Beach" with Leo DeCaprio. I think communism could work on that level, since you can always kick out the people that won't pull their own weight. Like they did in the movie. They would just vote them off the island.

But I would still want the libertarian principles. I don't want anyone telling me what to wear or eat or what I can do with my free time as long as it doesn't infringe upon someone else's liberty.

[chicane]

I was involved with the CoHousing movement for quite a few years. There have been some great successes and a lot more serious failures. It's a really interesting idea. Check out cohousing.org

I'm interested if the details are right, but I no longer have the tolerance for B.S. that I used to. Feel free to contact me if you like.

[debeguiled]

What are your personal experiences with CoHousing? Is it an agricultural community? How do people decide on their values and deal with disputes?

[Chevalier De Seingalt]

(09-17-2016 10:32 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(09-17-2016 09:47 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

Does anyone wanna save up their money and go do this together? I have a few grand that I'll pitch in. It sounds fun.

If I get to be the leader I'm in.

I have about 90 acres near Laie on Oahu that would be perfect for our compound. There's tons of fundamentalist Mormons up there that we could network with.

Let me know.

Aloha!

If there's any decent reef breaks nearby . . . I'm in!

Nothing like a post surf back massage from your eager to please Mormon girl ha!

[chicane]

(09-18-2016 03:40 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

What are your personal experiences with CoHousing? Is it an agricultural community? How do people decide on their values and deal with disputes?

Your best bet is to read up on it. My experience is that the communities are often, but not always, run by insane liberals. And many of them wind up being a cult of personality. which leads to another set of problems.

If you haven't studied the history, the Quakers where once considered to be incredibly liberal. Now look at them.

I would like to be part of a tight knit community, but it is highly unlikely to happen for me.

[ElFlaco]

(09-18-2016 03:40 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

What are your personal experiences with CoHousing? Is it an agricultural community? How do people decide on their values and deal with disputes?

I looked into semi-urban Cohousing once. They were going to build a group of stand-alone houses that faced inwards to a common green area and a communal kitchen / dining hall. In theory you could eat in your own place if you wanted and determine your ideal level of interaction with your neighbors. It seemed to be dominated by communistic 'it takes a village' types, my idea of hell.

[debeguiled]

(09-19-2016 08:45 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  

I looked into semi-urban Cohousing once. They were going to build a group of stand-alone houses that faced inwards to a common green area and a communal kitchen / dining hall. In theory you could eat in your own place if you wanted and determine your ideal level of interaction with your neighbors. It seemed to be dominated by communistic 'it takes a village' types, my idea of hell.

This is what I was afraid of.

[chicane]

(09-19-2016 08:45 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  

(09-18-2016 03:40 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

What are your personal experiences with CoHousing? Is it an agricultural community? How do people decide on their values and deal with disputes?

I looked into semi-urban Cohousing once. They were going to build a group of stand-alone houses that faced inwards to a common green area and a communal kitchen / dining hall. In theory you could eat in your own place if you wanted and determine your ideal level of interaction with your neighbors. It seemed to be dominated by communistic 'it takes a village' types, my idea of hell.

The reality is that as long as the community is well below the Dunbar Limit, some amount of socialism and communism can work. It's mostly a matter of having effective feedback mechanisms in place to keep things from getting too far out of control.

[ColSpanker]

The Orlov information was good and does make you think. How could you create a workable community with 150 people? My criticism of Orlov is that he is too big on the peaceable kingdom. One of his preconditions of the community he wants is that it has to express some kind of Gandhi nonviolence creed. I don't think that is such a good plan if the SHTF.

[debeguiled]

(09-23-2016 04:45 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

The Orlov information was good and does make you think. How could you create a workable community with 150 people? My criticism of Orlov is that he is too big on the peaceable kingdom. One of his preconditions of the community he wants is that it has to express some kind of Gandhi nonviolence creed. I don't think that is such a good plan if the SHTF.

In the case of the communities that abide, I think Orlov is more cataloging the successful communities he has found that can outlive the larger community around them.

They are mobile, and they don't make a stand and fight, they take off. On a practical level, it makes sense that fewer people will die if you just bail on every violent situation, and set up shop somewhere else.

In fact, until he and his wife had a kid, I believe that Orlov himself lived on a sailboat, and that was his personal community, his family, and thus situated, they could take off at any time and trade along the waterways. If I remember it right, he is now thinking of settling down on some land in Russia.

I get your peaceable kingdom point in relation to his idea of the 150 community, although I haven't looked into it as much as the other, so I don't know if within the idea of the small community is the idea of fleeing not fighting.

I don't think he is a pie in the sky pacifist, so if he is talking in terms of running and not fighting, he is being practical, and not idealistic.

Personally, I am skeptical of even 150 people getting on the same page long enough to get anything done for long, unless you all shared the same religion or something.

[chicane]

(09-23-2016 04:45 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

The Orlov information was good and does make you think. How could you create a workable community with 150 people? My criticism of Orlov is that he is too big on the peaceable kingdom. One of his preconditions of the community he wants is that it has to express some kind of Gandhi nonviolence creed. I don't think that is such a good plan if the SHTF.

150 people is the upper limit. Gore-Tex designs their factories for 150 people max and it seems to be very effective. You will also see this structure in churches, they have to make some major changes around the 150 member mark.

I would like to find a community to be part of, but every effort has failed miserably.

[ColSpanker]

I read through a lot of his posts. Orlov seems to be taken with the writings of Kropotkin and other 19th century anarchists. He is a small scale communist who feels that the system doesn't work once you get larger than 150 people. I understand where he is coming from in that respect. The only difference between him and what you used to hear off a Crass album is that Orlov points out religion is the main thing that holds the workable communities together. He did go into a number of cases where the 19th century intentional communes failed and it was usually because they were too self-actualized. Yes, that blank expression he gives the feminist when she starts talking about a few matriarchies is priceless. "I'm not talking about outliers!" I laughed out loud on that one.
I think he needs to focus less on what worked/didn't work 160 years ago and more on what works/doesn't work today.
It's a subject close to my heart because a lot of what I've done most of my life has boiled down to finding a "tribe" or "community". As the band Green On Red put it, "I'm just trying to find a place I could possibly fit in." However, I haven't found much out there. It was a big subject for me this year as I was forced to quit participating in the martial art I did for 20 years due to a stroke. I still function okay, but the doctor told me I was lucky and might not be the next time. So, good-bye martial arts community. Time and work didn't make it what I wanted, but at least it was always there.
I went back and looked at some of the mystical/religious groups I was so infatuated with in my twenties. I found out they really haven't changed much, many of the same players, just older. The Internet has been good to all this groups, but the quality still leaves much to be desired. After I was bounced from one 'discussion group' because I asked too many questions, I turned to one of the many masonic off-shoots and was rejected by them. Oh, well, never did want to join a group that would have me as a member, LOL. Looked at some other groups and still can't find anything that passes my 'Real' test. My problem is that I will dig and dig into the history of any organization and sooner or later the bad stuff appears. It's how they handle it when I bring it up that determines whether or not I participate. Most don't pass the test.
But I still search. Like Gatsby grasping for that light, I keep looking for that 'good community'.

[The Beast1]

(09-17-2016 10:32 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(09-17-2016 09:47 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

Does anyone wanna save up their money and go do this together? I have a few grand that I'll pitch in. It sounds fun.

If I get to be the leader I'm in.

I have about 90 acres near Laie on Oahu that would be perfect for our compound. There's tons of fundamentalist Mormons up there that we could network with.

Let me know.

Aloha!

Alright, you've got me interested. Let's hear your pitch.

My own questions:
Is the land good enough to grow food on?
How's the water situation? Can we be disconnected from the grid?
How do you feel about an onsite brewery?
Do we have to worry about volcanic activity burning our paradise down?
How do you feel about having a hostel on site to bring in girls for the single guys as well as bring in cash on the side?
As leader of the land, how flexible in arguments are you?

[Vaun]

I have never been drawn to "groups" like this. I have been exposed to several deep religious sects, communes and major "celebrity" spiritual groups, and I have never seen anything about them, that makes me want to give up a major portion of my wealth and personal freedom "for the greater good." Joining a religion or group like this basically admits that as an individual, you are incapable. Of course I dropped out of high school, barely engaged in anything on campus during college and painfully "network" now.