[rudebwoy]

1 and 2 would be challenging.

3 and 4 is a joke right!

[IDrinkYourMilkShake]

You guys know the series Band of Brothers, and you know that was based on the true story about the 101st Airborne Division. They where pretty badass fighters/soldiers but most of them would definatly not pass this test, so if it had been a requiered, a lot of good pontential would have been lost. Just like vinnman and General Stalin said, these tests are not realistic for soldiers.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

1 and 2 would be challenging.
3 and 4 is a joke right!

I think they are supposed to be looked at holistically. The idea is to put on some mass and gain enough strength to achieve 1 and 2 but not be so fat you can't do 3 or 4.

[Vaun]

Maybe it was where I grew up, but who knows now a days, but most kids in my high school could pass this test on their worst/most hungover day in gym class. The standing press seems to be so much of a struggle for most people here, but take the average 160# kid going into the military and that equates to a 120lb press. A few days of pressing with a little practice under the bar would get them there, if that kid had such a vastly underdeveloped upper body or was uncoordinated.

The Kokoro Camp Standards are much more applicable;

- 50 push ups (40 for women), 50 sit-ups and 50 air squats in 2 minutes
- 10 dead hang pullups for men, 6 women
- 1 mile run in boots and utility pants on road in 9:30
- Body Armor (aka Murph) with 20# pack (15# for women): 1 hour and 10 minutes minimum

Endurance standards to guide your preparation (not tested for performance, but completion):

10 mile run in less than 1:20
20 mile ruck hike with load in less than 6 hours

http://sealfit.com/kokorocampstandards/

[weambulance]

Ha, no I could not pass that right now. My legs are fucked. When I was actually in the army? Sure, no problem. But, I don't see what this sort of test has to do with actual combat needs.

I'd rather see some kind of combined obstacle course--performed in full battle rattle, carrying a rubber duck (with a sling)--and MOS-specific skills test than any kind of just plain PT test. There's a reason for the label "PT hero, field zero". What you specifically need to do depends enormously on what your job is.

Anything bodyweight-based is stupid in this context. In combat, you're not 160 pounds, you're 230 with all your gear on if you're only carrying a pussy LT load. It only gets heavier from there. It doesn't matter if you weigh 140 pounds or 220, a 155mm HE arty round stills weighs ~100 pounds. Tank track doesn't weigh any less just because the crew is a bunch of 150 pound greyhound types, or, God forbid, women. What do you do if your Bradley ramp hydraulics fail (shit happens all the time) and you need to get the ramp up with four guys? Is gravity going to say "well gee, you all passed your PT tests, I'd better lighten up while you lift this ramp"?

Why would anyone think Mark Rippetoe knows what would make a good test of combat fitness anyway? Dude isn't a peacetime veteran as far as I know, let alone a combat vet.

[StrikeBack]

I can easily pass the test:

1. 3~3.5x BW deadlift (conventional - sumo)
2. 1x BW press
3. 18 dead hang pullups
4. The 400m I don't have my latest number as I tend to run 2.4km and above for boxing training, but based on my general running and sprinting performance, I think I can easily sustain 19~20km/h for under 2 mins.

But I have no idea if that makes one combat fitness ready, and I suspect that Mark Rippetoe doesn't know either because he's not a vet.

[CynicalContrarian]

Don't know this Mark Rippetoe from a bar of soap.
However, for 'combat fitness' purposes, I'm calling shenanigans.
That Rippetoe test would take all of... ~5 minutes?
A combat situation could last 5 days if not 5 hours.

As a general strength test, sure no problem.
Yet if I was going to test the average military member for fitness, I'd do something along these lines :

1. 5 mile pack march with a 50 pound pack.
2. 500 yard farmers carry - 2 X water jerries at 50 pounds total.
3. 10 X 50 yard sprint.
4. 50 bodyweight pushups.
5. 50 starjumps.

[H1N1]

^ Looks a lot like a standard AFT test. Almost like these army types know more about what they are doing when it comes to combat fitness than Rippetoe. Who'd have thought.

[rudebwoy]

Guys who are saying this is easy are joking themselves.
I've been to a lot of gyms and have never seen anyone do overhead press greater than 135llbs.
At 190 I'm in decent shape, but pressing 380llbs over my head just screams injury.
The 50llb rucksack on your back over a 5 mile walk seems challenging to me.

[kinnikinik]

These seem like reasonable targets for the majority of the population to aim for. As a 50+ year old, I see them as challenging but doable:

1. 2X bodyweight deadlift. NO
I've done 300# for 3 reps and realized that my visions of 2.5x bodyweight were hallucinogenic visions, not goals. This I might be able to pull off with another year of training.

2. Standing Overhead Press with 75% of bodyweight on the bar. NO
I can do 100 for reps. gettting to 150 will be a serious challenge, but again, seems like a goal rather than a pipedream.

3. Chin-ups-12 minimum YES
No problem. I've, at last, gotten to the point of being able to do 15 in a set.

4. 400 meters in 75 seconds or less. NO
Haven't run on a track for ages, but I'm pretty sure I can manage this. Will have to go give it a try later this week.

[Rang off the Pipe]

4 is actually not all that hard unless a person doesn't have very good stamina. Most dudes should have no problem running that distance in under 75 seconds. Under 60 seconds is a different story.

[CynicalContrarian]

(09-11-2016 12:27 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

^ Looks a lot like a standard AFT test. Almost like these army types know more about what they are doing when it comes to combat fitness than Rippetoe. Who'd have thought.

You could easily modify any of the elements listed.
Up the weight.
Swap the farmers carry for a leopard crawl.

Yet at least it mimics a very generic combat situation.
Forced march to a 'battlefield'.
Then run around & lift things on said 'battlefield'.
Whereas from a combat perspective, I'm still not quite sure what Rippetoe's test is supposed to prove.

[ElFlaco]

(09-11-2016 07:55 PM)Rang off the Pipe Wrote:  

4 is actually not all that hard unless a person doesn't have very good stamina. Most dudes should have no problem running that distance in under 75 seconds.

Assuming you're trained for each distance, these times are roughly equivalent:

400m 75 seconds
1500m 5:23
mile 5:48
5000m 19:15

Obviously some runners will be better at one end of this spectrum or the other. These prediction times apply to non-specialists.

Check out a local race of fitness runners. You'll see that all-out mile under six minutes or a sub-20 minute 5K is beyond what the large majority of them can do. Non-runners, even those with good stamina, would fare worse.

[Bravo Zulu]

(08-29-2016 02:25 PM)vinman Wrote:  

Most grunts wouldn't pass this after their first enlistment. And most of the guys in Special Operations have to get waivers in order to "pass" their physicals. This looks great on paper and kudos to you if you can do it, but this shit is completely unrealistic for military personnel. If you're doing your job as a soldier or Marine how do you maintain this standard? You don't.... This is for dudes that look like Tarzan, but fight like Jane.

There may be more waivers on the U.S. Army Special Operations side relatively speaking. This may in part be due to the nature of Q-Course relative to the other services before assignment to an ODA because of language capability and the nature of the candidates phase IV training.

As for the other branches of the U.S. military or the upper echelon foreign units, this is not the case for physical waivers. It is true that many grunts in the U.S. armed forces are weaker after their first enlistment, less so in the U.S. Marine Corps.

The test is not practical for combat fitness primarily due to time and secondly real-time tasking; not to mention what happens if he is physically fit, but is a ¨stress grenade¨ mentally.

-----------------------------------------------
The only easy day was yesterday.

[StrikeBack]

My powerlifting club is full of newbies that can do 1-3. They are not at all strong. Those are pretty low standards.

However, most guys at the club including the elite level ones have really shit cardio and endurance, which would make them useless in any combat sport, let alone actual life or death combats.

If there's supposed to be standard strength test for combats, I'd say use something based on kettlebells like what the RKC guys used to do, or what the WKC guys compete in, coupled with some body weight ones like chinups.

[rudebwoy]

@Strikeback - 1 to 3 of what? pull-ups.

[H1N1]

^ Presume 1-3 of the original list (Press, Chinups, Deads)

[RichieP]

Barbell lifts as an entrance test for soldiers are daft.

Rippetoe is probably right they need more of a strength/power focus, but he's gone too far (as usual). This is the guy that gave his 75 yr old mother a spinal stress fracture by pushing her to do deadlifts.

Some of these tests of strength-endurance would be much better:

-Prowler pushes
-bodyweight squats with a pack
-hill sprints with a pack
-Kettelbell swings
-Chinups for reps

These all build functional strength, and get a guy insanely fit.

[JohnKreese]

(09-11-2016 01:39 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Guys who are saying this is easy are joking themselves.
I've been to a lot of gyms and have never seen anyone do overhead press greater than 135llbs.
At 190 I'm in decent shape, but pressing 380llbs over my head just screams injury.
The 50llb rucksack on your back over a 5 mile walk seems challenging to me.

It only has to be 75 percent of body weight so you're looking at about 145lbs...not 380.

[CynicalContrarian]

Did a session the other day of :

2000 yard (metre) pack march with 50 pounds.
10 x 80 yard uphill runs (~30' gradient / walk down).
50 pushups.

Even those few activities at a decent pace, took me the better part of 50 minutes.
Still not quite sure what Rippetoe's test is supposed to prove combat wise.

[TigerMandingo]

(09-11-2016 01:39 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Guys who are saying this is easy are joking themselves.
I've been to a lot of gyms and have never seen anyone do overhead press greater than 135llbs.
At 190 I'm in decent shape, but pressing 380llbs over my head just screams injury.
The 50llb rucksack on your back over a 5 mile walk seems challenging to me.

Exactly!

Also, chinups - are we talking palms facing away? No way the majority of dudes (outside of this forum and bodybuilding circles) can perform strict 12 dead-hang chinups. Most can barely do 5...

[RexImperator]

Palms away would be pull-ups. FYI the Marines require a minimum of three pull-ups for men. (Zero for women.)

[Repo]

Are 135 pound overhead lifts really that uncommon? Thats pretty much an average amount of weight for most gyms I've been too. I've a few friends who go up to 185, and theres a couple guys at my gym who go over 225 on freeweight standing overhead press. I go to a $20 a month chain gym, not some powerlifting gym too. Hell the local YMCA theres plenty of guys who lift well over 135.

[Fortis]

Easy Peasy.

[RexImperator]

I believe a 200ish overhead press is totally achievable for many guys with regular training, as is a 300lb. bench press.