[Rhyme or Reason]

Does anyone else here suffer from them? I had one a month ago for the first time and thought I was going to die. I've had several more "near misses" since then where I could feel the symptoms come on and I've just been learning to breathe deeply until it passes. It's strange given that I'm almost 30 and never had any sort of anxiety disorder in my life until now, and objectively my life is better than it's been in the past, though I do have a lot on my plate.

I don't want to go on benzos (which is what is usually prescribed for anxiety) because several of my family members are on them as well as other drugs (anti depressants) and I do not want to be hooked on that stuff.


For those that deal with this, is there a drug-free solution? Maybe cutting out caffeine or something?

[fellowhuntsman]

Hey man. Shoot me a PM. I'm a doc (no BS) and can treat without meds. We can talk more backchannel and set something up via some secure medium.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(08-22-2016 03:22 PM)fellowhuntsman Wrote:  

Hey man. Shoot me a PM. I'm a doc (no BS) and can treat without meds. We can talk more backchannel and set something up via some secure medium.

Sent PM. Thanks.

[The Beast1]

I used to suffer from pretty terrible panic attacks when I was younger. Age has significantly dulled them, though I still struggle with the anxiety of thinking people don't like me.

Words of affirmation work for me. I'll ask myself the question, "I wasn't feeling this way before, why am I feeling it now?"

For some of the worst attacks where my heart was racing, I would just acknowledge the anxiety and tell it to ,"come at me bro!"

Strangely enough, it tends to break that hamster wheel cycle and calm down. Worth a shot.

Avoid benzodiazepines and other pharma.Make sure your vitamins are all in sync.

[robreke]

(08-22-2016 03:15 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

Does anyone else here suffer from them? I had one a month ago for the first time and thought I was going to die. I've had several more "near misses" since then where I could feel the symptoms come on and I've just been learning to breathe deeply until it passes. It's strange given that I'm almost 30 and never had any sort of anxiety disorder in my life until now, and objectively my life is better than it's been in the past, though I do have a lot on my plate.

I don't want to go on benzos (which is what is usually prescribed for anxiety) because several of my family members are on them as well as other drugs (anti depressants) and I do not want to be hooked on that stuff.


For those that deal with this, is there a drug-free solution? Maybe cutting out caffeine or something?

See if there's someone in your area who is certified for "Nutrition Response Testing"

I found a good one for some allergies and other issues I had and it manages these things much better than meds. The only downside is that insurance doesn't cover, however it's not extremely expensive.

[redbeard]

I'll chime in....this post is long overdue. I've dealt with panic attacks since I was a child. It's a darker side of me that I don't talk about with anyone, and although it is a setback, I have used it as an opportunity for growth. Ask anyone who's met me, and I'm one of the most positive thinking people in the world. I actively practice positive thinking DAILY to stave off panic attacks. Let's get into it....

Panic attacks are difficult because they're a. psychological and b. irregular. Unlike an ankle sprain or acute injury which can be treated and put behind, panic attacks continue and must always be contained. Like asthma, it can be triggered at any moment without explanation and ruin the entire day. Due to that nature it's important to cultivate a LIFESTYLE that keeps you positive and a MINDSET that cannot be broken.

But redbeard what about antidepressants? No way. There are too many studies that have shown antidepressants to have no statistically significant advantage over placebo, and as The Lizard of Oz recently pointed out, a recent studied showed that bright light therapy alone (monotherapy) is more effective than an antidepressant used alone. I don't know how severe your anxiety is, but antidepressant side effects are huge and pharmaceuticals should only be used as a last resort.

I'm no doctor but I strongly believe that most psychological "diseases" are short-circuiting (not the Hillary Clinton kind). Once you accept that your body is a machine, start to think of your brain as the engine that drives everything. All it takes is rewiring and regular maintenance to change your thought patterns.

The most important thing is to recognize your triggers (for lack of a better term) and controlling them. I didn't accept that I had panic attacks until a little bit ago. Until then I figured it was just something that happened to me. Wrong! Now, I control my emotions by taking a step back and looking at myself from the outside. Once you feel yourself going down the panic attack trail, CHOOSE to walk away.

Additionally the following are all practices that have allowed me to control anxiety and panic attacks. Many of these reflect common RVF choices but I have been practicing them for a long time and consider them staples of my life.

1. 90% paleo diet, with TKD carb cycling
2. Sleep hygiene (bright light therapy, caffeine control,
3. NAC (I've only been using for 3 months but love it so far)
4. Exercise (weightlifting and team sports, in moderation to avoid burnout)
5. Gorilla Mindset/A Guide to Rational Living (I'll post more about this later)
6. Minimizing stress (choosing to remove stressors)
7. Meditation
8. Healthy sex life
9. Removing chemicals from your body

I don't have time to write about all of them, but how you think is huge when it comes to anxiety. Most of the time it's negative thought patterns that keep us locked up in anxiety. Once you CHOOSE to control your thoughts and emotions, and you conquer your own mind, conquering the world feels like minutia...

I will post more later but it'd be great if you can expand on what triggered your panic attack and why you think it happened. You've only had one instance, there's no reason to jump on the pillz. You can do this

[Kona]

(08-22-2016 03:15 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

several of my family members are on them as well as other drugs (anti depressants) and I do not want to be hooked on that stuff.

Does anxiety disorder run in families? Is it a genetic thing?

Around two years ago I volunteered at the big PTSD clinic in Hawaii for veterans. Those guys all had anxiety and depression issues. I wound up quitting because the were all full of shit.

Before I left, my big theory was that being around all the other people with the anxiety made theirs worse.

Maybe if you stay away from the family members with the problems when you feel yours coming on, that will help.

Aloha!

[Rhyme or Reason]

Thank you for your post, redbeard.

Quote:

Panic attacks are difficult because they're a. psychological and b. irregular. Unlike an ankle sprain or acute injury which can be treated and put behind, panic attacks continue and must always be contained. Like asthma, it can be triggered at any moment without explanation and ruin the entire day. Due to that nature it's important to cultivate a LIFESTYLE that keeps you positive and a MINDSET that cannot be broken.

I have found the bolded portion to be especially true. The strange thing is they can come out of nowhere. When it happened the first time I wasn't in a bad mood or feeling more more stress than normal, I posted about it in the lounge here:

thread-9856-...pid1350718

When i was in the hospital it hit again, and my muscles locked up due to hyperventilation. That's why I said that when I feel the wave coming on I just keep in mind to breathe and let it pass. So far it's been working well enough to stave off a serious attack but I feel the need to get to the root of the problem, if that's even possible.

Quote:

I will post more later but it'd be great if you can expand on what triggered your panic attack and why you think it happened. You've only had one instance, there's no reason to jump on the pillz. You can do this

I have no desire to go on pills. Half my family is and I am not down with that shit. I think the initial breakdown was just due to stress, it was 2 days before a 2 hour show I had to put on with my band and I was feeling the pressure.

@Kona

Quote:

Does anxiety disorder run in families? Is it a genetic thing?

I would not be surprised if it did, though I'm no expert on this. However there's been plenty of other diagnoses in my family (depression, mostly) but I have never been diagnosed as depressed.

Quote:

Maybe if you stay away from the family members with the problems when you feel yours coming on, that will help.

That's the thing, it strikes randomly. Even when I'm driving. At times where there's been no outside stimuli it's happened. That being said I always try to avoid high strung people.

[UlteriorMotive]

(08-22-2016 05:11 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

1. 90% paleo diet, with TKD carb cycling
2. Sleep hygiene (bright light therapy, caffeine control,
3. NAC (I've only been using for 3 months but love it so far)
4. Exercise (weightlifting and team sports, in moderation to avoid burnout)
5. Gorilla Mindset/A Guide to Rational Living (I'll post more about this later)
6. Minimizing stress (choosing to remove stressors)
7. Meditation
8. Healthy sex life
9. Removing chemicals from your body

I'm also on the NAC boat.

I started taking it when I was experiencing a rough patch of anxiety and I haven't had any issues since (coupled with better lifestyle choices)

I recently introduced it to a family member who suffers from Schizophrenia / Aggro-phobia and they can't say enough about how much it is helping them.

[Kona]

Did you get a full work up from a doctor?

The heart run-on-the-treadmill test, brain scan, lung check, all that?

Aloha!

[Rhyme or Reason]

(08-22-2016 06:12 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Did you get a full work up from a doctor?

The heart run-on-the-treadmill test, brain scan, lung check, all that?

Aloha!

All but the treadmill part. The only thing wrong was high blood sugar most likely due to drinking a lot.

[Balkan]

(08-22-2016 05:11 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

I'll chime in....this post is long overdue. I've dealt with panic attacks since I was a child. It's a darker side of me that I don't talk about with anyone, and although it is a setback, I have used it as an opportunity for growth. Ask anyone who's met me, and I'm one of the most positive thinking people in the world. I actively practice positive thinking DAILY to stave off panic attacks. Let's get into it....

Panic attacks are difficult because they're a. psychological and b. irregular. Unlike an ankle sprain or acute injury which can be treated and put behind, panic attacks continue and must always be contained. Like asthma, it can be triggered at any moment without explanation and ruin the entire day. Due to that nature it's important to cultivate a LIFESTYLE that keeps you positive and a MINDSET that cannot be broken.

But redbeard what about antidepressants? No way. There are too many studies that have shown antidepressants to have no statistically significant advantage over placebo, and as The Lizard of Oz recently pointed out, a recent studied showed that bright light therapy alone (monotherapy) is more effective than an antidepressant used alone. I don't know how severe your anxiety is, but antidepressant side effects are huge and pharmaceuticals should only be used as a last resort.

I'm no doctor but I strongly believe that most psychological "diseases" are short-circuiting (not the Hillary Clinton kind). Once you accept that your body is a machine, start to think of your brain as the engine that drives everything. All it takes is rewiring and regular maintenance to change your thought patterns.

The most important thing is to recognize your triggers (for lack of a better term) and controlling them. I didn't accept that I had panic attacks until a little bit ago. Until then I figured it was just something that happened to me. Wrong! Now, I control my emotions by taking a step back and looking at myself from the outside. Once you feel yourself going down the panic attack trail, CHOOSE to walk away.

Additionally the following are all practices that have allowed me to control anxiety and panic attacks. Many of these reflect common RVF choices but I have been practicing them for a long time and consider them staples of my life.

1. 90% paleo diet, with TKD carb cycling
2. Sleep hygiene (bright light therapy, caffeine control,
3. NAC (I've only been using for 3 months but love it so far)
4. Exercise (weightlifting and team sports, in moderation to avoid burnout)
5. Gorilla Mindset/A Guide to Rational Living (I'll post more about this later)
6. Minimizing stress (choosing to remove stressors)
7. Meditation
8. Healthy sex life
9. Removing chemicals from your body

I don't have time to write about all of them, but how you think is huge when it comes to anxiety. Most of the time it's negative thought patterns that keep us locked up in anxiety. Once you CHOOSE to control your thoughts and emotions, and you conquer your own mind, conquering the world feels like minutia...

I will post more later but it'd be great if you can expand on what triggered your panic attack and why you think it happened. You've only had one instance, there's no reason to jump on the pillz. You can do this

This is a great post. I tried NAC for ~3 weeks and felt nothing, maybe it wasn't long enough?

Would like to hear your application of Gorilla Mindset/Guide to Rational Living. I've read Gorilla Mindset and benefitted from it, but never created any systems of implementation. Probably time for a re-read.

[Kona]

(08-22-2016 06:24 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 06:12 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Did you get a full work up from a doctor?

The heart run-on-the-treadmill test, brain scan, lung check, all that?

Aloha!

All but the treadmill part. The only thing wrong was high blood sugar most likely due to drinking a lot.

I see. I go to the via a lot. When they give you the initial forms to fill out they REALLY want you to have anxiety issues.

Good luck. Keep seeing doctors and tell us what's what.

Aloha!

[fiasco360]

I had a really bad episode of these after a near death episode back in 2012. They lasted for about 6 months, maybe a bit longer. Eventually they started to slowly go away.

Question, in the preceding weeks/months did you have to visit the doctor for any reason?

[Zona]

(08-22-2016 05:11 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

I'll chime in....this post is long overdue. I've dealt with panic attacks since I was a child. It's a darker side of me that I don't talk about with anyone, and although it is a setback, I have used it as an opportunity for growth. Ask anyone who's met me, and I'm one of the most positive thinking people in the world. I actively practice positive thinking DAILY to stave off panic attacks. Let's get into it....

Panic attacks are difficult because they're a. psychological and b. irregular. Unlike an ankle sprain or acute injury which can be treated and put behind, panic attacks continue and must always be contained. Like asthma, it can be triggered at any moment without explanation and ruin the entire day. Due to that nature it's important to cultivate a LIFESTYLE that keeps you positive and a MINDSET that cannot be broken.

But redbeard what about antidepressants? No way. There are too many studies that have shown antidepressants to have no statistically significant advantage over placebo, and as The Lizard of Oz recently pointed out, a recent studied showed that bright light therapy alone (monotherapy) is more effective than an antidepressant used alone. I don't know how severe your anxiety is, but antidepressant side effects are huge and pharmaceuticals should only be used as a last resort.

I'm no doctor but I strongly believe that most psychological "diseases" are short-circuiting (not the Hillary Clinton kind). Once you accept that your body is a machine, start to think of your brain as the engine that drives everything. All it takes is rewiring and regular maintenance to change your thought patterns.

The most important thing is to recognize your triggers (for lack of a better term) and controlling them. I didn't accept that I had panic attacks until a little bit ago. Until then I figured it was just something that happened to me. Wrong! Now, I control my emotions by taking a step back and looking at myself from the outside. Once you feel yourself going down the panic attack trail, CHOOSE to walk away.

Additionally the following are all practices that have allowed me to control anxiety and panic attacks. Many of these reflect common RVF choices but I have been practicing them for a long time and consider them staples of my life.

1. 90% paleo diet, with TKD carb cycling
2. Sleep hygiene (bright light therapy, caffeine control,
3. NAC (I've only been using for 3 months but love it so far)
4. Exercise (weightlifting and team sports, in moderation to avoid burnout)
5. Gorilla Mindset/A Guide to Rational Living (I'll post more about this later)
6. Minimizing stress (choosing to remove stressors)
7. Meditation
8. Healthy sex life
9. Removing chemicals from your body

I don't have time to write about all of them, but how you think is huge when it comes to anxiety. Most of the time it's negative thought patterns that keep us locked up in anxiety. Once you CHOOSE to control your thoughts and emotions, and you conquer your own mind, conquering the world feels like minutia...

I will post more later but it'd be great if you can expand on what triggered your panic attack and why you think it happened. You've only had one instance, there's no reason to jump on the pillz. You can do this

Like you, I've suffered with anxiety issues ever since I was a kid. They didn't turn into full blown panic attacks until my late teens, and admittedly I still get them occasionally today. I second everything you said so I won't beat a dead horse. The main takeaway is that it's critical for those of us who deal with anxiety issues to cultivate a lifestyle that is conducive to positivity, and both mental and physical health.

OP, redbeard's suggestions are all excellent and they are things that I've also incorporated into my life to varying degrees (admittedly neither Gorilla Mindset nor bright light therapy did a whole lot for me). I can attest to the fact that they've helped me in numerous ways, including lowering my anxiety in general.

In addition to what redbeard wrote, I would also suggest cutting back on booze, or eliminating it entirely for awhile like I have. Same with porn. While I'm still struggling to cut porn out of my life, I do feel better in general whenever I manage to go for long streaks without it. It's about resetting your brain to a healthier state, and all of those negative inputs can only harm you in the long run.

I would definitely avoid going the benzo route at all cost. My doctor used to prescribe them to me when I was younger and I rapidly became dependent on them just to get through the day. Weaning myself off of them was a lengthy nightmare, and doing so can be downright dangerous.

Currently I practice a threefold strategy for dealing with my own anxiety:

1) Build and maintain a positive, healthy lifestyle incorporating the things that redbeard and I mentioned. This should help keep anxiety at bay for the most part, but it does require a good deal of work to maintain such a lifestyle.
2) When I am experiencing anxiety I try to implement negative visualization/CBT techniques to reason my way out of it. I can provide more info on this if necessary, or at least point you in the direction of some good resources.
3) If all else fails and I'm in the midst of a panic attack I just try to focus on my breathing, remind myself that anxiety won't physically hurt me, and then try to let the experience wash over me. It sounds weird, but I've found that accepting the anxiety, rather than struggling with it, helps the feeling pass more quickly.

I haven't completely overcome my issues with it, but this is the best strategy that I've developed so far.

(08-22-2016 05:24 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Does anxiety disorder run in families? Is it a genetic thing?

Around two years ago I volunteered at the big PTSD clinic in Hawaii for veterans. Those guys all had anxiety and depression issues. I wound up quitting because the were all full of shit.

Before I left, my big theory was that being around all the other people with the anxiety made theirs worse.

Maybe if you stay away from the family members with the problems when you feel yours coming on, that will help.

Aloha!

While I'm not an expert on this subject, I do believe that certain genetic factors can play a role. I have many family members who deal with anxiety issues, and it seems like we all have a heightened sensitivity to stress. This can be good in legitimately threatening situations, but in more benign day to day stuff it's not as useful.

I do think that there's something to your theory about being surrounded by anxious people, which could also partially explain the familial aspect of it. I know that I don't particularly enjoy being around people who are always in panic mode. Even though I can empathize with how they feel, it does tend to put me in a more anxious state.

My theory is that it has something to do with our primitive tribal instincts that dictate a certain level of group awareness. When one or more people in a group are anxious about something -- a feeling that can trigger the fight or flight response (which is basically what a panic attack is) -- then others in that group also tend to experience higher stress levels as a way to prepare for some sort of perceived threat. This is a very useful survival instinct, but not particularly applicable to modern life as we now know it.

[Euphoric_Breeze]

I have experienced horrific panic attacks for three months in 2013. As a result , I saw a shrink who put me on Antidepressants, which helped kicked the dopamine and serotonin levels in my head. Honestly, the medications improved my mood and I felt euphoric and even ticklish sometimes.

As my general mood enhanced over time, I started skipping my appointments with the doctor and never came back. I woke up one day and flushed all those pills in the toilet. Then I became interested about "mind control" and started watching Daily Vlogs from a coach named "Arash Dibazar". His footages are extremely insightful and are red pill oriented. From that point, I've become even more interested reading about self-improvement books, and maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

One thing to bear in mind, before a panic attack is manifested there is a confusion in your thoughts pattern .
Confusion --> Depression or anxiety--> Panic attack.
A purified body with consistent exercice and healthy eating is less likely to suffer from panic disorders . The list established by redbeard is also helpful and will guide you on your journey for a better mental health.

I still get a small feeling of panic attacks when I'm extremely hangover once in a while, but I just laugh at it and say " Not gonna happen ever again". Life is too damn precious to be wasted on what I call imaginary panic attacks, since we're the ones responsible for their manifestation, and we can at the same time neglect them with great mind control mastery.

[Beyond Borders]

(08-22-2016 06:24 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 06:12 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Did you get a full work up from a doctor?

The heart run-on-the-treadmill test, brain scan, lung check, all that?

Aloha!

All but the treadmill part. The only thing wrong was high blood sugar most likely due to drinking a lot.

I'd bet money this is your cause right here.

[Oilrig]

Try natural supplements for energy and mood: B12, ginkgo biloba, ginseng, damiana. This works well for me.

[RichieP]

Great recs in here so far.

Would also add:

-Adaptogenic herbs: Rhodiola Rosea, Gotu Kola, Ashwagandha - all have significant calming effects and many people find them good for stopping panic in its tracks

-Stay off caffeine + sugar - that shit is rocketfuel for anxiety/panic

-Do some cognitive work. What thoughts/expectations are preceding the panic? Negative emotions are a sign of expecting something very bad in the future. Therapist or workbooks could help you here.

All the best, it's just some weird thing your brain is doing, keep trying stuff until you fix it. You'll crack it!

[Hell_Is_Like_Newark]

Are 'panic attacks' becoming more common? My wife was complaining multiple women at her work were stricken with panic attacks whilst working under a heavy (but not extreme) work load. All these women afflicted are under 30 years of age.

[redbeard]

(04-12-2017 03:03 PM)Hell_Is_Like_Newark Wrote:  

Are 'panic attacks' becoming more common? My wife was complaining multiple women at her work were stricken with panic attacks whilst working under a heavy (but not extreme) work load. All these women afflicted are under 30 years of age.

Overall mental health is on a steady decline.

Destroyed family unit. Lower birth rates. Increased addiction to sugar. Availability of prescription drugs, all the way from painkillers to party drugs like Xanax and molly. People are going crazy.

[JohannesAusPrag]

I had problems with Panic attacks in a past which prevail till this day but with way lover frequency and intensity.

It was always same, I started feeling sudden "super consciousness"? and then sudden and very strong feeling of depersonalization, usually with few seconds of being blind/not registering what I saw even if I could see.
This has started in very hard part of my life when I made multiple stupid mistakes and it all build up, often what caused these attacks was when I thought of what issues I have to solve or if I was doing something that was actually helpful - like socializing, but my brain thought of it different.

What helped me was to get myself on antidepressants, I have actually realized that I have to acknowledge my long term depression I was able to suppress without medication until that time only by doing things that male should do.
Until this day I am still on meds and I am doing my best to get of them by repairing my life and with trying to introduce element of masculinity into my life.

What helps are cold showers and workouts, tho with my self-pity and self hatred it is going very slow, what I cant do is to break consistency otherwise I trigger it again, this helps me to stay motivated enough to work on myself. Even my psychiatrist told me and keeps reminding me that it is in brain and meds are not cure, but only help to have strength to work on myself.

[Ringo]

Good timing on this bump.

I was out this weekend travelling with a large group of friends. We've been friends for years and it'd been a while since we went on a trip together.

The first night there, one of the girls gets a panic attack (and another one of the following day). She was stressed out for a number of reasons and kept getting angrier and more irrational throughout the night until she popped.

I had never seen a panic attack in person before. That shit is scary.

I was in a different room when I heard her huffing and saying she was gonna die. She had her boyfriend nearby and he took care of things. I'm good under stress but I had no idea what to do.

What's the best way to be supportive when someone's having an episode?

Should you stand by, grab a glass of water, talk to them, keep silent?

[Vaun]

I had a panic attack two weeks ago. It caused me to go to the hospital and stay the night. I thought I was having a heart attack. The nurses were laughing at me because there was nothing wrong at all, they gave me a stress test, everything worked out just fine. They were all cute, and the one taking care of me all night would have been a great candy striper. Thats when I realized I was ok.

Over the last year I have attempted to launch three start ups, as an employee, not owner, and all three fell flat. The panic attack was the day the last one ended for me. Over the last year I have had one of the most tumultuous times in my life; LTR ended badly, and these crap ass start ups. For 5 months, I quit working out regularly. My friends and family, and a therapist, have helped me get through this. Lately I have found the strength to get out of this and into bigger and better things.

I realized my lifestyle put me here. I am always on the go; going out, spending money, eating out, dating multiple nights a week, focusing on women a lot, being erratic in decisions and moving fast in general. I am 41.

For all of April, I have put that aside. I am not going out, not dating, even though there are a few girls still in my life. Not spending any money. Not eating out. Not drinking. Being more purposeful with my time and my schedule. Taking care of myself first. I really dont care if I date now, or even bang.

So the panic attack was a wake up call. To slow down. Take care of myself first. Relax and scale everything back, to discover what I really want. In scaling back I have realized how much I am letting slip by, by not allowing myself to explore new things in life; I want to learn new things, go back to classes, just learn and stretch myself into new areas. It makes me ask myself, is all the time, effort and money I put into women even worth it? I am on the right track now, and I will be in the future. This is a moment of change for me, and I want to fully accept it and go through it.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(08-24-2016 10:46 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 06:24 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

(08-22-2016 06:12 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Did you get a full work up from a doctor?

The heart run-on-the-treadmill test, brain scan, lung check, all that?

Aloha!

All but the treadmill part. The only thing wrong was high blood sugar most likely due to drinking a lot.

I'd bet money this is your cause right here.

This turned out to be true. I haven't drank in almost 2 months, at all. Haven't had an inkling of anything even remotely related to anxiety.