[Magnesium Chloride]

This definitely has been effective for me. I generally only use it when it isnt sunny, otherwise Im more inclined to go outside instead.

Usually on really dark, cloudy days, I will be really miserable and questioning the point of life. Now I feel "meh" on those days. Not as good as I may have hoped, but still a significant improvement.

Although its hard to say if it was a placebo. Im having more friends and increasing my social circle, so I dunno if I can actually isolate the two effects.

[Georges89]

Hi guys, here in the UK, its depressingly already that time of year! The last two weeks over September I've noticed a drop of in my mood. Low motivation at work, low energy, low sex drive. Time to start taking daily vitd3 and get my light box sorted out.

I have a timer that I can connect to my light plug, which will roughly go off at 6am or whenever I program it to. I've noticed getting up has got progressively harder last few weeks.

I have a vtd3 bottle of 5000 iu pills from last winter, going to start popping one a day to make sure I am at least getting a baseline in. I am not sure what their shelf life is?

[The Lizard of Oz]

Georges, do yourself a BIG favor and get that full spectrum, 10,000 Lux light box now. Especially for someone prone to depressive chemistry like yourself, this will make a surprising and disproportionate difference for your mood, energy levels, and overall day-to-day quality of life.

You will note that I posted this thread just a little over a year ago, and that is no accident: as noted in the OP, this is the time of year when the change in the daily amount of sunlight starts to be felt very acutely by those who are at all sensitive to it. And now is the time to get that process under control by getting a light box and starting to use it correctly and consistently every morning.

[WanderingSoul]

Has anyone traveled with the Sunlight Jr? Would it work with a converter in different countries? If I get one I want to make sure I can travel with it without burning it out.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(09-18-2015 01:02 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Has anyone traveled with the Sunlight Jr? Would it work with a converter in different countries? If I get one I want to make sure I can travel with it without burning it out.

Rio, my mother uses one and she takes it with her when she travels to Europe. It works fine for her with a converter.

[WanderingSoul]

Just bought a nearly new one off Ebay for $105 shipped. Should be here middle of next week.

I'll update as I use it and let everyone know how it goes.

Thanks Lizard!

[redbeard]

Purchased.

For those on the fence, Sunbox has a 45 day money back guarantee as long as you keep the packaging.

I think my party life style and career have messed up my sleep cycle. Even when I try to sleep more I feel groggy. I'm excited to see how my body responds.

[WanderingSoul]

Mine got lost in the mail but just got it finally.

Still have to do some reading and then start using it.

[Georges89]

Hi guys, just wanted to bump this. I now have my 10,000 lux light set to an automatic timer on my bedside table. Its the only way I can get up early in the morning to have time to do stuff before work. I have it turn on 30mins before I want to get out of bed, and it works amazing compared to trying to wake up without one. The difference, excuse the pun, is really like night and day.

My only problem is consistency, for example my girlfriend comes over so I switch it off the night before as I haven't tried to get her on board just yet as its a new relationship and am respecting her sleep preferences, and then I forgot to switch it back on, and constantly seem to be battling to have it on every morning on a daily basis as a result.

I may actually buy another light as this one fills its purpose for waking me up, but I don't want to spend the morning hours before work lying on my bed o get the full effects of the light. So I may get one for my kitchen table as well so I can have a 30min slow breakfast and get the full benefits of the light in terms of reducing SAD. Changing it daily back and forth from the kitchen to my room would be a hassle, so seems like I will get one for waking up and one to put on a table whilst I eat breakfast/read.

Or I potentially go for a 'wake up' alarm by Lumie or someone, I guess these ones are a bit more reasonable if you have a girlfriend etc as it doesn't bang on all of a sudden. People who aren't used to an instant bright light coming on whilst in bed would probably think its a little creepy I guess, lol.

[redbeard]

Loving this so far. Definitely more awake in the morning and less sluggish. Happier and more easy going in the morning.

And I've only been using it four days!

I've been waking up around 7 or 8 when the sun is up, but I bet this will pay dividends when waking up before sunrise, or when it's gloomy in the winter.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(11-11-2015 10:29 AM)Georges89 Wrote:  

Hi guys, just wanted to bump this. I now have my 10,000 lux light set to an automatic timer on my bedside table. Its the only way I can get up early in the morning to have time to do stuff before work. I have it turn on 30mins before I want to get out of bed, and it works amazing compared to trying to wake up without one. The difference, excuse the pun, is really like night and day.

Georges, I'm not sure I completely understand the setup -- are you getting your 30 minutes while you're still lying in bed? That doesn't seem like the best way to do it -- the lying down position is not the optimal one for absorbing the light and it makes it difficult to control for being at the right distance to get 10,000 lux, neither too far nor too close. I'm not sure you're even keeping your eyes open throughout, which of course you need to do.

It's best to do this while seated with the light box position to your side or in some cases above you, at the correct distance for getting 10,000 lux. Can't you just get out of bed and sit in front of a desk on which the box stands (at the correct distance and angle)? That would probably be most effective.

[Georges89]

(11-14-2015 06:51 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 10:29 AM)Georges89 Wrote:  

Hi guys, just wanted to bump this. I now have my 10,000 lux light set to an automatic timer on my bedside table. Its the only way I can get up early in the morning to have time to do stuff before work. I have it turn on 30mins before I want to get out of bed, and it works amazing compared to trying to wake up without one. The difference, excuse the pun, is really like night and day.

Georges, I'm not sure I completely understand the setup -- are you getting your 30 minutes while you're still lying in bed? That doesn't seem like the best way to do it -- the lying down position is not the optimal one for absorbing the light and it makes it difficult to control for being at the right distance to get 10,000 lux, neither too far nor too close. I'm not sure you're even keeping your eyes open throughout, which of course you need to do.

It's best to do this while seated with the light box position to your side or in some cases above you, at the correct distance for getting 10,000 lux. Can't you just get out of bed and sit in front of a desk on which the box stands (at the correct distance and angle)? That would probably be most effective.

Hi Lizard,

you are correct here: I have probably been sort of misusing the lightbox as a wake up tool. I need to buy a second device, either a lightbox or wake up alarm for waking up, and use the lightbox properly in a sitting down position..

Right now, I am a bit strapped for cash until the end of the month however, so I am using the lightbox as a wake up tool as I find waking up to the bright light has a very invigorating effect on me and I find it much easier to get out of bed.

[The Lizard of Oz]

There is an extremely important new study that came out recently, showing that bright light therapy significantly improves nonseasonal major depression. In addition, bright light therapy alone (monotherapy) is more effective than an antidepressant used alone. The effects of light therapy were noted to be rapid and dramatic, and easily beat placebo (whereas antidepressant monotherapy failed to convincingly beat placebo).

Medscape article

Quote:

Light Therapy Highly Effective for Major Depression

The combination of bright light therapy plus an antidepressant significantly improves nonseasonal major depressive disorder, and light therapy alone is more effective than antidepressant monotherapy, a randomized, placebo-controlled trial suggests.

"I've studied bright light therapy in winter depression for a long time, but we always thought that winter depression was different from nonseasonal depression," Raymond Lam, MD, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada, told Medscape Medical News.

"So this was the first study that was placebo-controlled, and I think that while light therapy could be used on its own for some patients, more severely ill patients need combination therapy, whether that combination be an antidepressant plus psychotherapy or psychotherapy plus light therapy or light therapy plus an antidepressant."

....

Rapid and Dramatic Improvement

Asked by Medscape Medical News to comment on the study, Michael Terman, PhD, professor of psychiatry, Columbia University, and director of the Comprehensive Chronotherapy Group, New York City, noted that as early as the 1970s, there were inklings that light had antidepressant effects in nonseasonal major depression, but because of the rapid — often within days — and dramatic improvement seen with light therapy in patients with seasonal affective disorder (SAD), attention was quickly diverted to the use of light therapy in SAD.

"Dr Lam's multicenter trial wraps up the loose ends with a comprehensive, 8-week comparison of light therapy and fluoxetine, separately and in combination," Dr Terman told Medscape Medical News.

"The major surprise was the failure of a standard therapeutic dose of fluoxetine to beat the placebo rate, while light therapy showed a large effect size within 4 weeks," he added.

...

"This the most impressive clinical trial of light therapy I have seen, whether for SAD or non-SAD," Dr Terman said.

"It ran for 8 weeks ― longer than earlier studies ― it used two types of placebo control, and it pitted the response against standard antidepressant medication," he added.

"If light had proved ineffective or only weakly effective in comparison with fluoxetine, it would have consigned light therapy to the dustbin, but the dramatic, opposite result turns the tables on the choice of somatic treatment for major depression ― 10,000 lux light therapy upon awakening or, by implication, a walk outdoors if the sun is up ― now can be recommended to patients with recurrent depression, many of whom will respond without recourse to drugs."

Note that the bright light therapy protocol used in the study was exactly as recommended in this thread: 30 minutes at 10,000 Lux, as soon as possible after waking.

This study is a very big deal, and it demonstrates what has been stated in the OP to this thread: bright light therapy should be the modality of choice in treating both seasonal and non-seasonal depression, being both safer and more effective than other modalities. One hopes that it will mark a significant turning point in the treatment of major depression.

Here is the link to the full research paper in JAMA Psychiatry:

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article....id=2470681

[UlteriorMotive]

I had been considering purchasing one of these for a while and have decided to finally take the leap. As of recently my quality of sleep has been below average and I've also been waking up feeling very groggy and sluggish for a few hours before being able to get some motivation and energy behind me.

I work from 5:30PM till 1:00AM in a brightly lit office, I wear blue-blocking sunglasses for the whole shift and have a blue blocker installed on the monitor I use and my mobile phone.

Everynight I am asleep by 2:00AM - 2:30AM latest and awake at 10AM everyday without an alarm, is there anything else besides using a bright light that I can do to improve my quality of sleep?

I will be posting updates from when I receive it and how it has affected my sleep quality and morning energy.

Thanks again to Lizard and everyone for bringing this item to my attention and the information provided within this thread.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(12-08-2015 06:57 PM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  

Everynight I am asleep by 2:00AM - 2:30AM latest and awake at 10AM everyday without an alarm, is there anything else besides using a bright light that I can do to improve my quality of sleep?

UlteriorMotive, you will likely benefit a great deal from using the light box correctly and consistently. Make sure you get a good full spectrum light box that can generate 10,000 Lux, and use it as described in the OP: every day same time -- as soon as possible after waking -- for 30 minutes at the correct distance to receive 10,000 Lux.

As far as other things that can improve sleep, here are some pointers:

-- Do not drink too much coffee; ideally, no more than once a day, never on an empty stomach, and not too late in your day (I'd say no later than 8 hours before bedtime, and better something like 12 hours before bedtime).

-- Do not eat a heavy meal late. Try to finish all your eating at least 4 hours before bedtime, and make your last meal of the day a relatively light one.

-- Make sure the room where you sleep is not hot. A cool temperature is ideal for sleep.

-- Don't exercise very late in your day if possible. Try to exercise earlier rather than later.

Basically, the idea of all these habits is to avoid raising your body temperature late in the day. To fall asleep and sleep well, your body temperature should fall around the time you are going to bed. Having food in your stomach, being in a hot room, having recently exercised etc are all things that can raise your body temperature and make it harder to fall asleep.

Finally, it's good that you are blocking blue light on all monitors and are wearing blue-blocking glasses in the office. Keep doing that.

You might also take a look at this thread I posted a while ago that has various tips for optimizing sleep and health in general. Some of them have been covered above but there may be a couple of additional nuggets that you might find useful:

thread-46677.html

[evilhei]

Yesterday it didn't even go light at all here in Norway and I really felt it and today I came across this thread. I went right to the shop and bought Breuer TL30 light box. Also promising 10000lux's. Will try out this tomorrow morning and report back with results after awhile.

[Brian Shima]

Do guys who work non-pussy jobs e.g. do not sit in front of a computer all day and DO get sunlight benefit from light therapy TLOZ?

[Kaii]

(12-09-2015 10:53 AM)Brian Shima Wrote:  

Do guys who work non-pussy jobs e.g. do not sit in front of a computer all day and DO get sunlight benefit from light therapy TLOZ?

Really dude? So let me understand. If you don't work outside, you're a pussy?

[lex the impaler]

Thanks Lizard for this excellent thread. I've started using therapy as you've suggested. I bought a used lightbox junior, and it works as advertised. One thing I'm having difficulty with is keeping it close enough (14") away from your eyes. I turn it on in the morning next to my bed while I read the news, and I try to stay as close to it as possible. Definitely helps me with waking up and staying alert (at least for the first 6 hours of the day). I've noticed MUCH improved mood in the morning, so much that others have noticed the difference. I'm working on starting using it while I bike i the morning.

[BDawg]

Loving this.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(12-09-2015 10:53 AM)Brian Shima Wrote:  

Do guys who work non-pussy jobs e.g. do not sit in front of a computer all day and DO get sunlight benefit from light therapy TLOZ?

Yes. It's not just about getting sunlight, but also about the timing, intensity, and consistency of the exposure. The timing should be as soon as possible after waking, to correctly cue the circadian rhythm; the intensity should the equivalent of 10,000 Lux for 30 minutes; and the consistency -- doing this every morning day in day out -- is what entrains an optimal sleeping schedule.

Now, on a bright sunny day at the height of the summer, if you can step outdoors very soon after you wake up and stay there for a while, you can certainly get your Lux straight from the sun. But at other times of year, and particularly during the fall and winter when guys tend to need this the most, it is difficult to impossible to entrain your circadian rhythm using natural sunlight. It's still good to get sunlight during the day, of course, but it's not an adequate substitute for bright light therapy.

[redbeard]

On that note, those of us who work non-non-pussy jobs e.g. do sit in front of a computer all day, stepping outside during the day should be part one of your work habits.

I use personal or work related calls on my cell as an excuse to step outside, but will also grab a coffee and stand outside just to get some sun exposure.

[UlteriorMotive]

(12-08-2015 08:19 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(12-08-2015 06:57 PM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  

Everynight I am asleep by 2:00AM - 2:30AM latest and awake at 10AM everyday without an alarm, is there anything else besides using a bright light that I can do to improve my quality of sleep?

UlteriorMotive, you will likely benefit a great deal from using the light box correctly and consistently. Make sure you get a good full spectrum light box that can generate 10,000 Lux, and use it as described in the OP: every day same time -- as soon as possible after waking -- for 30 minutes at the correct distance to receive 10,000 Lux.

As far as other things that can improve sleep, here are some pointers:

-- Do not drink too much coffee; ideally, no more than once a day, never on an empty stomach, and not too late in your day (I'd say no later than 8 hours before bedtime, and better something like 12 hours before bedtime).

-- Do not eat a heavy meal late. Try to finish all your eating at least 4 hours before bedtime, and make your last meal of the day a relatively light one.

-- Make sure the room where you sleep is not hot. A cool temperature is ideal for sleep.

-- Don't exercise very late in your day if possible. Try to exercise earlier rather than later.

Basically, the idea of all these habits is to avoid raising your body temperature late in the day. To fall asleep and sleep well, your body temperature should fall around the time you are going to bed. Having food in your stomach, being in a hot room, having recently exercised etc are all things that can raise your body temperature and make it harder to fall asleep.

Finally, it's good that you are blocking blue light on all monitors and are wearing blue-blocking glasses in the office. Keep doing that.

You might also take a look at this thread I posted a while ago that has various tips for optimizing sleep and health in general. Some of them have been covered above but there may be a couple of additional nuggets that you might find useful:

thread-46677.html

I have taken all this on board and tried my best to implement it into my lifestyle.

Personally cutting out eating from 4 hours until I hit the hay has been a struggle as I get very hungry towards the end of my shift but to make do I have just been having a Protein shake with a tablespoon of double cream in it.

Thanks for all the pointers I am already getting a better night sleep.

[UlteriorMotive]

In other news.

Today my "Sadlamp" came after having a war with Amazon as they seem to have trouble with an intercom system.

I have not had the chance to use it yet but I've just set it up on the corner of my desk for use in the morning.

The model I purchased was the "Lumie - Brightspark"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001J...ge_o00_s01

I'll keep a log of how I feel over the next coming weeks and let you guys know how it has affected my sleep.

Here's a few pictures for those interested.

[ovo]

(12-17-2015 10:45 AM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  

In other news.

Today my "Sadlamp" came after having a war with Amazon as they seem to have trouble with an intercom system.

I have not had the chance to use it yet but I've just set it up on the corner of my desk for use in the morning.

The model I purchased was the "Lumie - Brightspark"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001J...ge_o00_s01

I'll keep a log of how I feel over the next coming weeks and let you guys know how it has affected my sleep.

Here's a few pictures for those interested.

Looks like a real solid setup! Similar to what I have and it serves me well.