[damelo]

Currently I'm stuck in regards to these choices. I start college within the next month and just last week I was informed that my local elevator union will be taking applications very soon.

The question I have today for your guys is in regards to which would have a better career outlook in the future? As it stands I've done plenty of research on what I'd be be able to do with an associates in CIS and this is what I've got from my research
1-2 Years in IT Help Desk
3/4 years in System Admin or something of that nature
5/6 Years IT manager for a small business or keep moving up in corp IT
7/8th year transition into cyber security or information security which would be my goal since the IT industry is pretty saturated and sec is the only area with 100k salaries within a few years

The other choice would be the Elevator Tech Apprenticeship
4 years paid training making about 40-60k
Once you're fully licensed they make about 80-100k give or take depending on overtime and area.
Pretty much that's it for this besides getting your own contracts and forming an elevator maintenance company or supervisor at an existing company

What would you guys do climb your way up the IT Security field or Elevator apprenticeship.

I really don't mind either I like computers and I like working with my hands as well which is why its a tough choice.

[iRONIN]

The elevator job probably has a lot of ups and downs.

[damelo]

(08-07-2016 05:52 PM)iRONIN Wrote:  

The elevator job probably has a lot of ups and downs.

When you've done enough reading to know this would be the first reply on other forums!

[Sidney Crosby]

Neither one of these jobs is going to make pussies drip but I'd think the elevator job is pretty secure for the future and the cash is good.

[iknowexactly]

Having worked in IT I would expect the elevator job to be much less stress intellectually, which might be good or bad.
Trying to fix a hosed router while sales dept's computers are down can be pretty hellish, because it's all opaque invisible bits flying around.

I'm guessing one good thing about elevators is that because of the safety issue, there's ONE right way to have a particular brand/model running-- If an installation of Acme Elevator's model 1234 has marginal motor, you get that particular motor and replace, or it is OUT OF ORDER. My guess is no one will even ask you to take shortcuts and you can tell them to go to hell if they do. And the union will probably protect you for doing the right thing.

I was in a union and it's good. Just look at all the hate for unions and you know they have something right.

Another good thing is I've never heard of anyone else discussing being an elevator technician . Probably means there's a shortage? No white collar panache. Less bosses looking over your shoulder once you're certified.
I imagine you'd WANT to take your time and you SHOULD take your time. Work at your own pace. In IT there's always some loathsome manager or user chewing on his/her fingernails.

I imagine less women in management in elevators too, that's good. Also, less age discrimination. I know you'll never get old of course, but if you do IT environments are totally youth-centric. You won't be out of place as a 40-something elevator tech.

[frozen-ace]

One time I was riding a train across Europe and there was this older gentleman doing a tour with one of those ultra-light bikes. He was a retired elevator tech. It sounded like a pretty secure Union job. Not sure if it is really true, but he said it was one of the few professions that had no layoffs during the Great Depression.

Probably have more physical movement during the workday as an elevator tech, and your eyes will probably last longer vs burning your eyes out looking at a computer screen all day working IT.

[HOD]

If I had to redo my career again, I would find a job where there was no women.

This is a good gig, no women will ever enter your working space = less drama and politics

In addition, it doesn't look like you will be dealing with HR much either.

Also, you will be working with men, who want to get work done = meritocracy

Doesn't look like there's any affirmative action, why? Because its a boring ass job, where you actually have to work all day and have deadlines, you can't just go take a daily schedule lunch at 1, and have your usually 10 minute walk.

Furthermore, you won't really have a boss, other than deadlines.

Sounds like a real man's job, you will be judge on your merits as a man, by your peers who don't take unnecessary breaks.

And most of all you can appreciate your work. Elevator dudes making sure the city runs and lives potentially save.

[DarkTriad]

I hear that elevator union is pretty kick ass. Do it, and have a side hustle if you want something that sounds more dramatic.

[Monty_Brogan]

I've done a lot on my short time on this rock: Marine Corps (0331), railroad, elevator constructor. The common theme amongst these: all men and you better not be a pussy.

There is zero room for emotions in the trades, so you better have thick skin because you will be treated like shit until you can prove yourself, and even then it's a 4-year year apprenticeship, so you will be eating a lot of crow. There's some good to go mechanics out there though who are more laid back. But must aren't and don't tolerate any shit. There's a new phenomenon I've been seeing of men entering the trade and acting arrogant; don't be that guy. Keep your mouth shut and soak up as much info as you can.

There are three different aspects of this trade:

I) Construction -Installing elevators into a new skyscraper as it goes up

II) Modernization -Fixing and replacing elevators in existing buildings

III) Service/repair

Construction is the best, IMO. But it's the worst on your mind and body. But you won't have a say in what department you go to. It's needs of the company. And what makes this trade so good, besides of all the cool shit we do, is you can always fall back on II & III if construction slows down. Although with the hours I've been working in construction the past couple years, I wouldn't mind a little slow down!

Pros:

* Over time == double time. Your figures are way off. If you're lucky and end up in construction, first-year guys will make $80-100k -these are big city numbers I'm going to throw out there. Do the math, though, you'll be working a lot of 'time' -overtime, in order to reach those figures. 3rd-4th year apprentices are around $100-$130k. Journeyman = $150+K. And the top dog foreman(s) are north of $200. Only a select few get that type of coin. And they are true masters who run work.

* Everday is something new. We have to know and do aspects of basically every trade: Iron Work, Welding, Electrical, Carpentry, Mechanic, and.... Garbage man. You can imagine how many pieces of elevator equipment in crates there are in a 50+ story building. Short answer = a lot!

* Lots of holidays off -the most out of any trade.

* Annuity and pension.

* Espirt de Corps. There's only 1400(ish) Elevator Constructors in Chicago. There are over 30,000+ electricians just in Cook County.

Cons:

* Grueling on your mind and body. There's mind numbing shit that has to be done when building these machines. And guess who is doing it: you!

* Ego

* Freeze your dick off in the winter -imagine how cold it is when you're 45 stories in the air and the windows haven't caught up to the building yet. Most trades took off cold days this past winter... not us. That's the above bullet point right there. Summers ain't too fun either. The buildings are swamps.

All in all, it's a great trade. The best arguably. But again, if you're coming from a white collar background or have never worked a blue collar job, you're going to be arriving on a foreign planet. And you better be strong physically and mentally. I do not say that lightly.

Again, there are no pretty boys in this trade. It's tough, dangerous, and dirty work, but we're well compensated for it.

Good luck

[Easy_C]

(08-07-2016 10:45 PM)HOD Wrote:  

If I had to redo my career again, I would find a job where there was no women.

The flip side here is that women usually are not common in IT either. Most departments have one or two but for the most part it's the kind of guys who rave about Indie games and have a large collection of crap from Hastings.

My advice would be to try out the elevator gig for a year or two. If you end up not liking it you can always go to college anyway and it won't really hurt you if you don't mind being a year or two older than your classmates....which can have its perks with women and easier access to alcohol.


Note that the pay is prett good. 80-100k after 4 years is more than all but the most competitive white collar jobs (e.g. Goldman Sachs investment banking, engineer from a top 5 school, etc) will make right out of undergrad although your upside is not quite as high.

There also isn't anyhting stopping you from picking up an evening degree or getting IT certs on the side.

Point is doing this for a year doesn't have much of a downside, nor does it pigeonhole you. If nothing else you will have some interesting experiences that other kids in college won't have....which in turn will give you a dramatic leg up should you go through the campus recruiting process.

[roberto]

(08-07-2016 05:48 PM)damelo Wrote:  

Currently I'm stuck in regards to these choices. I start college within the next month and just last week I was informed that my local elevator union will be taking applications very soon.

Could someone explain to a Brit how the union system works? I thought America was looked upon as the pinnacle of the free market; is this not the case or am I misreading the situation?

[Jack Of All Trades]

I can't say for the USA but in canada unions control the benefits and wages of a trade and also legal representation. Different contractors can have workers belonging to a union, and that union dictates the wages, benefits, working, hours, etc. They intervene in labor disputes and legal issues on behalf of the union members and can call strikes depending on how the constituency votes. Unions also provide training and acceptable standards of work quality (you aren't going to weld if you don't pass those CWB tests!). An important pro is that switching companies in a trade as long as their union doesn't incur loss in benefits, the benefits are usually attached to the union and your pay rate will always stay the same.

One caveat is that the union doesn't control the amount of work that flows through contractor companies, so jobs come and go and it isn't a guaranteed 40h work week, you'll have busy and slow times (20-30h work weeks with sporadic weeks of 70h+ a week).

Unions also control labor supply in the trades, most big projects use union workers as they can staff the huge manpower requirements. They also have minimum standards, liability is also another issue. Your friend who does your deck is good at carpentry and does a good job, but he's not on the hook if it falls down; a union carpenter on the other hand is a different story.