[RichieP]

Yeah I mean 3 sets of deads and chins once a week would get him in alot better shape than that...

[zatara]

(08-21-2016 04:33 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

Not necessarily man.

Just to give an example, copying Chris Jones' high-volume bodybuilding routines got me results for a while but then I stalled out hard. Only after cutting it down to a 3 day a week PPL split did I break the plateaus and make progress again. High volume bodybuilding splits work for a lot of people and I'll probably do one again for 1.5 months during bulking season just to shock the body into growth, but even CJ himself doesn't recommend that everyone do his specific routine.

What works for others won't nessecarily work for you.

One specific bodybuilder's workout might not be ideal for someone else (though it would still be a hell of a lot better than the 4 Hour Body) but my point was relating to general body-types from sports. With the joys of the internet its possible to quite quickly find out what sort of diet and workout regime a high level American Football running back, or defensive lineman, or a high level rugby forward, or a rugby back etc has.

These obviously get tweaked for individuals but they're a very reliable base for a newbie to lifting to go from "I like that body type" to "how do I make myself look like that".

I'd far rather someone new to weightlifting followed a regime designed and published by the English Rugby Football Union (to take one example), a professional body with advice backed up by massive amounts of sports science (and with results field tested rigorously on a weekly basis), than any random internet guru who will likely either have an agenda to push, money to make, or who is just plain ignorant.

[fiasco360]

I guarantee you that this guy didn't eat more than 80g of protein a day and I'm almost certain he wasn't even eating 2000 calories.

His work out intensity sucked balls too probably.

It's not rocket science, you don't have to live in the gym. You can work out 3 times a week, eat at a surplus and you will make gains of some sort. Yes there are finer points to this but for someone like him- the basics are more than adequate.

I had multiple clients who were skinny (I was too) who told me they ate a ton. Since I was so skinny, I knew how people overestimated their calorie count. At a certain point I had to eat until I was uncomfortable.

So I started asking them exactly what they were eating, I would have them show me with their hands how big the portions were and sometimes even asked about their grocery bill. I know it seems extreme but I could tell people were bullshitting me. Often times this is the result:

Sub 2000 calories
less than 0.5g protein per lb of bodyweight
garbage food overall

I simply had them start throwing in some additional milk or other higher protein foods and what do you know, they started to gain weight, strength and muscle. They thought it was magic.

[Albatross]

(08-25-2016 12:56 AM)fiasco360 Wrote:  

I guarantee you that this guy didn't eat more than 80g of protein a day and I'm almost certain he wasn't even eating 2000 calories.

Wrong

He was up a full 20 lbs at one point

Did you even read the link ?

[fiasco360]

(08-25-2016 02:45 AM)Albatross Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 12:56 AM)fiasco360 Wrote:  

I guarantee you that this guy didn't eat more than 80g of protein a day and I'm almost certain he wasn't even eating 2000 calories.

Wrong

He was up a full 20 lbs at one point

Did you even read the link ?

Admittedly I did not. I saw some of the general information. I'll dig deeper but something seems amiss here.

[Independent1]

Don't really see how one subject that failed Tim's method allows confirmation that the method doesn't work. From this guys picture there's a number of concerns about his results, the list of things he did wrong could be endless.

Tim sure is a marketing genius but I don't feel like he's pushing false info/products to the point where you can put him in the category of being a bullshitter. I'd say guys like Dave Asprey and others who sell their "own" products of existing items with small adjustments fall into that category. They then market the shit out of them explaining that their product is "better" than alternatives, as if they've got something you can't get anywhere else. From what I've heard from Tim (mainly his podcasts), it seems the products/services he promotes aren't his own (he has adverts/affliates but I'm reffering plenty of others he's mentioned during a podcast) which wouldn't make any sense for him to market unless he believed in them.

[Fortis]

He's skinny as fuck. Should eat more and lift.

I just saved him 1+ year of lifting advice. Skinny motherfuckers aren't eating enough. I hate when skinny guys are like "FAST METABOLISM BOOHOO!" when we all know they're not eating enough. I am naturally skinny like this guy, but I force food down my gullet.

[zatara]

(08-25-2016 03:37 AM)Independent1 Wrote:  

Don't really see how one subject that failed Tim's method allows confirmation that the method doesn't work. From this guys picture there's a number of concerns about his results, the list of things he did wrong could be endless.

The fact Tim Ferris's method goes against 50 years of very comprehensively tested sports science is confirmation it doesn't work. Its the sports science equivalent of someone who says "well evolution is only a THEORY, you can't believe mainstream science!!".

I guarantee people like the guy in the OP spend more time discussing their workout plans on the internet than being actually in the gym. And thats the core of the problem. I think most guys here in their 20s will have a friend like this. Certain men get far too drawn into the theoreticals of working out, of discussing it at length, of finding the new hip workout fad. And they never actually commit to working out properly, and put in their 3hours+ a week solidly over months.

Its not rocket science. Three workouts a week, heavy compound movements, a calorie excess, a high protein diet, and enough sleep will have anyone making great gains.

[Albatross]

(08-25-2016 05:30 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Three workouts a week, heavy compound movements, a calorie excess, a high protein diet, and enough sleep will have anyone making great gains.

Proof?

[realologist]

From what I see Albatross is probably OP because hes being all butthurt about multiple members comments.

Either way this guy wasn't eating as much as he said or his program blew. Although he lost 20 lbs his arms, back and chest all looked the same. That guy could easily gain a lot of muscle with lifting and eating.

[zatara]

(08-25-2016 09:56 AM)Albatross Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 05:30 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Three workouts a week, heavy compound movements, a calorie excess, a high protein diet, and enough sleep will have anyone making great gains.

Proof?

Proof that anyone can put on muscle? Ehm, I'm guessing you're either trolling, or as realologist suggested you're the skinyfat Asian guy in the OP who wasted almost 2 years of his life, but well, basic human physiology.

If you're actually genuinely curious have a start with something peer reviewed but intellectually accessible like http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140 and then go on-wards from there.

[Albatross]

(08-26-2016 06:46 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 09:56 AM)Albatross Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 05:30 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Three workouts a week, heavy compound movements, a calorie excess, a high protein diet, and enough sleep will have anyone making great gains.

Proof?

Proof that anyone can put on muscle? Ehm, I'm guessing you're either trolling, or as realologist suggested you're the skinyfat Asian guy in the OP who wasted almost 2 years of his life, but well, basic human physiology.

If you're actually genuinely curious have a start with something peer reviewed but intellectually accessible like http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140 and then go on-wards from there.

Yes I am looking for proof that anyone can put on muscle guaranteed

You take it is a given, but do you even have any?

And no that link is not proof of anything

inb4 "Troll" accusation

[realologist]

(08-27-2016 03:49 PM)Albatross Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 06:46 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 09:56 AM)Albatross Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 05:30 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Three workouts a week, heavy compound movements, a calorie excess, a high protein diet, and enough sleep will have anyone making great gains.

Proof?

Proof that anyone can put on muscle? Ehm, I'm guessing you're either trolling, or as realologist suggested you're the skinyfat Asian guy in the OP who wasted almost 2 years of his life, but well, basic human physiology.

If you're actually genuinely curious have a start with something peer reviewed but intellectually accessible like http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140 and then go on-wards from there.

Yes I am looking for proof that anyone can put on muscle guaranteed

You take it is a given, but do you even have any?

And no that link is not proof of anything

inb4 "Troll" accusation

Do you seriously wonder why people are going to call you a troll?

Eating, sleeping and working out hard have worked through out history. Hundreds of members of different races, body types and ages have all improved their physique with this simple.

I'm guessing the reason this hits a nerve with you is because you haven't been successful at building muscle.

Why don't you post your workouts, diet and sleeping pattern?

That will reveal a lot.

[RichieP]

(08-25-2016 12:56 AM)fiasco360 Wrote:  

I guarantee you that this guy didn't eat more than 80g of protein a day and I'm almost certain he wasn't even eating 2000 calories.

Often times this is the result:

Sub 2000 calories
less than 0.5g protein per lb of bodyweight
garbage food overall

I simply had them start throwing in some additional milk or other higher protein foods and what do you know, they started to gain weight, strength and muscle. They thought it was magic.

Yeah this is on point. The guy hardly changed in 87 weeks, which means he was simply not eating to gain weight.

Eating calorie surplus to gain weight = he would add at least 30lbs bodyweight in 1.5yrs+, regardless of fat/muscle composition.

The weight training is what ensures a good portion of that is gained as muscle.

If the training "didn't work" yet he was eating to gain, he would have at least gained 30lbs of fat from the extra calories.

The fact that his physique and weight barely changed, shows he was nowhere close to eating to gain.

Either that, or he has some sort of digestive disease.

[Albatross]

(08-27-2016 05:45 PM)realologist Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 03:49 PM)Albatross Wrote:  

(08-26-2016 06:46 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 09:56 AM)Albatross Wrote:  

(08-25-2016 05:30 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Three workouts a week, heavy compound movements, a calorie excess, a high protein diet, and enough sleep will have anyone making great gains.

Proof?

Proof that anyone can put on muscle? Ehm, I'm guessing you're either trolling, or as realologist suggested you're the skinyfat Asian guy in the OP who wasted almost 2 years of his life, but well, basic human physiology.

If you're actually genuinely curious have a start with something peer reviewed but intellectually accessible like http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140 and then go on-wards from there.

Yes I am looking for proof that anyone can put on muscle guaranteed

You take it is a given, but do you even have any?

And no that link is not proof of anything

inb4 "Troll" accusation

Do you seriously wonder why people are going to call you a troll?

Eating, sleeping and working out hard have worked through out history. Hundreds of members of different races, body types and ages have all improved their physique with this simple.

Some =/= All

You understand this distinction, right? Or no?

People ITT throwing out "Oh this IDIOT, he should have done ABC routine or XYZ routine!!!", but again you have NO proof that any routine GUARANTEES good gains for ALL

[Sooth]

I wish Ferriss had put the part about female orgasms from the body book into the chef book.

"Hey I'm practicing this world renowned gourmet dish tonight, I need a helper"

[zatara]

(08-27-2016 03:49 PM)Albatross Wrote:  

Yes I am looking for proof that anyone can put on muscle guaranteed

You take it is a given, but do you even have any?

And no that link is not proof of anything

inb4 "Troll" accusation

Anyone can put on muscle with proper training guaranteed because thats simply the way the human body works. Go off and read any scientific studies on how muscle is built. Something like http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20847704 will provide you with the hard science behind it. There is literally zero doubt about this, its empirical scientific fact, not broscience or guru-speak.

I'm sorry if you wasted 2 years of your life on Tim Ferris's fad program and made absolutely no gains. You really should have just started a traditional weight lifting program (literally ANY one), you would look a hell of a lot better now.

Instead of getting butthurt and spending your time defending a program that clearly doesn't work all over the internet I'd recommend you go off and do some basic reading on weightlifting (start on wiki I guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training ) and start a normal program. The sooner you start the sooner you'll make progress.

[Albatross]

(08-28-2016 06:02 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(08-27-2016 03:49 PM)Albatross Wrote:  

Yes I am looking for proof that anyone can put on muscle guaranteed

You take it is a given, but do you even have any?

And no that link is not proof of anything

inb4 "Troll" accusation

Anyone can put on muscle with proper training guaranteed because thats simply the way the human body works. Go off and read any scientific studies on how muscle is built. Something like http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20847704 will provide you with the hard science behind it. There is literally zero doubt about this, its empirical scientific fact, not broscience or guru-speak.

Nope. Again, no actual scientific studies shown by you that "proper training" guarantees muscle gain for all humans. Just another explanatory paper review. Just more beliefs, assumptions, dogma. Prove that there's "literally zero doubt" about it. If it's "empirical scientific fact", show it. Oh wait, you can't.

[RichieP]

Actually, some people cant put on muscle, or only very little. They have muscular, digestive, hormonal or neurological disorders.

But it's well known that resistance training in healthy adults causes hypertrophy, given adequate protein intake.

Here are 60,600 Google Scholar results for "resistance training hypertrophy" for you to pore over:
https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=r...5&as_vis=1

[zatara]

(08-28-2016 11:03 AM)Albatross Wrote:  

Nope. Again, no actual scientific studies shown by you that "proper training" guarantees muscle gain for all humans. Just another explanatory paper review. Just more beliefs, assumptions, dogma. Prove that there's "literally zero doubt" about it. If it's "empirical scientific fact", show it. Oh wait, you can't.

That paper I linked to discusses the exact science behind how resistance training leads to muscle hypertrophy in humans. Its not a belief, assumption, or dogma. Its empirical, peer reviewed, science. Likewise as do tends of thousands of other scientific papers, as RichieP linked to.

If you don't want to believe that resistance training leads to muscle growth in humans thats up to you, you're as free to believe that as you are free to believe the Earth is flat. It does however make you come across as either A) a troll or b) someone trying very hard to justify their own failure to put on muscle.

[Lechon]

He wasn't training hard enough. Lots of people just move the weights and train to noywhere near failure. If your muscle doesn't exert itself to anything close to failure, no damage is done to the tissue, and no signals are sent to grow. Even if you don't eat properly, if you train hard, you will change your body shape, increase strength etc. You see this is manual workers or even boxers/kickboxers in SEA countries for example, they have no bodyfat and their build is completely different from this guy. But you need a calorie surplus to gain weight, and if you don't eat a lot of protein, you won't gain a lot muscle.

[Phoenix]

I've already said my piece on it before, but Albatross is right. For some bodies it really is like fighting the sunrise. Try 5 months straight of lifting to failure whilst chugging 2 high-calorie protein shakes a day on top of your daily diet, and seeing a epic 3kg gain for all that and say "everything is just about how much you want it". Talk's cheap and easy.

That's not to say it's impossible though, there's always the drug route. If it made Linux a monster, it can make a skinny weed at least athletic looking.

[RexImperator]

Lifting to failure won't mean much if it's the same weight every time.

Maybe it is something to do with appetite regulation. Even if you were not deliberately counting calories and bulking, squatting and deadlifting heavy should make you hungry. If you lift and then don't eat, you're going to feel like shit (in my experience).

For linear progression I would lift, eat, and often collapse on the couch totally exhausted afterwards.

[Albatross]

(08-28-2016 11:45 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(08-28-2016 11:03 AM)Albatross Wrote:  

Nope. Again, no actual scientific studies shown by you that "proper training" guarantees muscle gain for all humans. Just another explanatory paper review. Just more beliefs, assumptions, dogma. Prove that there's "literally zero doubt" about it. If it's "empirical scientific fact", show it. Oh wait, you can't.

That paper I linked to discusses the exact science behind how resistance training leads to muscle hypertrophy in humans. Its not a belief, assumption, or dogma. Its empirical, peer reviewed, science. Likewise as do tends of thousands of other scientific papers, as RichieP linked to.

If you don't want to believe that resistance training leads to muscle growth in humans thats up to you, you're as free to believe that as you are free to believe the Earth is flat. It does however make you come across as either A) a troll or b) someone trying very hard to justify their own failure to put on muscle.

Still haven't proven that 'proper' resistance training can GUARANTEE good gains in ALL humans

Still repeating the same BS

[zatara]

(08-28-2016 12:43 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I've already said my piece on it before, but Albatross is right. For some bodies it really is like fighting the sunrise. Try 5 months straight of lifting to failure whilst chugging 2 high-calorie protein shakes a day on top of your daily diet, and seeing a epic 3kg gain for all that and say "everything is just about how much you want it". Talk's cheap and easy.

That's not to say it's impossible though, there's always the drug route. If it made Linux a monster, it can make a skinny weed at least athletic looking.

Some people absolutely find it harder to put on muscle than others, but its still possible for anyone who trains properly. Its just going to be a longer, slower, harder process.

3KG in 5 months works out to over 7KG a year, which is actually pretty steady progress, for what its worth. I was a tiny teenager (140lb/63KG @ 6ft0) with no muscle mass and a fast metabolism. It took me 6 years of serious lifting to go from 63KG to approx 220lb/100KG. Or about 6KG of gains a year.

A lot of newbies get discouraged after not seeing huge gains in 6 months and give-up. The key is just sticking to a program over the medium/long-term.

(presuming you're not on a ridiculous 4 hour a month program that is)