Respect to all the guys sharing their knowledge/experience and calling it like it is.
El_Gostro, it seems like you've hit a rough patch in life and you see the military as a way to either escape your situation or give yourself time to regroup and move into a different direction. It takes someone focused on very specific goals while being willing to make certain major sacrifices to be successful in this line of work. The military is not and should not be used as a safety net. Based on what Ive read here I would not recommend it.
Sadly, the military in either active or reserve component does not currently have a good ROI for most of the population. People who enlist at about their mid 20's or later have an unfortunately well earned stigma of not being able to make it on the outside, and aren't all that great on the inside either (always exceptions though). One thing to consider is that rarely is it merely a "4 yr gig". You enlist for an 8 year commitment, of which 4-6 years are active duty and the remainder are reserve. The veteran membership has done a good job of explaining the negatives, so I won't beat a dead horse too much. Rather Ill attempt to explain the limited circumstances in which enlisting might be worthwhile and some of the positive benefits as I have used them.
Also didnt see it mentioned here, but regardless of age, at certain ranks most times you will live in communal housing. Barracks or on ship. Until you are E4 over 4 yrs or E5 then you can request to live out in town and receive housing allowance. I lived in a top bunk in a stank ass room with 60 other dudes for 3 years. I was 18 so I didnt give a fuck as long as I had beer money and some pussy on the weekends. But ask yourself if you can put up with that loss of freedom.
Job Security
-First a bit on the myth of the "security" of military service. As with anything else, there is none. Due to the poor economy there is unprecedented retention which brought about force shaping tools such as PTS, C-WAY, etc which are ways to arbitrarily give someone the boot. Things like failing a PT test, DUI, low performance evals can take away your ability to re enlist. There have also been a few disastrous initiatives like ERB where a number of senior people in Zone C (10-14) years were summarily given the boot. Imagine being in for 15 years thinking "hey I just have to stick it out 5 more years and I get that sweet pension" and you get a "sorry shipmate, pack your bags". 2 of my close friends got that business.
Job Skills
-Valuable Skills. As stated above, BS. Recruiters will lure you into certain MOS or rates to meet their quotas with the promise of instant job offers when its time to get out. Very few skills will directly transfer, even less if you have no leadership/management role. Most guys who spend 20-30 years in go right back to work doing GS work, contracting, or support. Why do you think that is? Security clearances are very helpful, but not the panacea they are claimed to be unless you have the skills desired. If I have a clearance and work on guns, I won't be marketable to a LAN job.
That said, a few jobs that could directly transfer to a civilian employer, with the caveat that you will only be at a marketable experience level after 4-6 years OJT minimum preferably 10+ with experience managing a team of people and different configurations.
-IT specifically LAN Admin, bonus for Secret networks
-Comms tech into a telecom job
-Navy DC into a civilian firefighter
-Medic/Corpsman - they have some really in demand specialties
-Marksmanship instructor
-Aviation mechanic
-Machinist
-Navy HT if you can get certified on nuclear welds or SUBSAFE there is $$$
-Air traffic controller
Entitlements
-30 days leave, great deal right? You accrue those 30 days but rarely get to take them all, in fact I lost 6.5 days this year because of it.
-Non taxable special pays, excellent deal! About 1/3 of my pay is non taxable as "allowances".
-Can minimize income tax burden by establishing residency in a state w/o income tax. I haven't paid any in 16 yrs.
-Healthcare, free. Not the best, but not the worst. I can count the number of times Ive used it on one hand. Stay healthy and you won't need it.
-Tuition Assistance. 16 credits college per semester free.
Benefits
-Post 9/11 GI Bill. Fully funded to the max in state rate of college tuition plus living/fee stipends.
-Hiring preference for govt jobs
-Anecdotal but you get a bit more street cred with a DD214 all others being equal.
Networking
-Its harder as junior personnel to network but not impossible. To truly expand your network to a global scale you need to work at it over a career of, you guessed it, worldwide assignments. But even after a 4 year active duty tour you can make some serious contacts in the military, contractor, and logistics areas. Especially if you are aware of the need for it and are sociable.
Conclusion
There are still some who can make a good go of it in the military, either short or long term. You can also choose certain jobs that have a minimum of feminist bullshit, these usually correspond to the jobs with the most physical labor. The trade off is your life is on hold for XX years, and the question is can you get enough return on that time to make it worthwhile? Is giving up 4-8 years of freedom worth it for a free college degree? Or is 20 years worth it for a small pension and mediocre health care? Depends on what you take for yourself from the journey compared to what is taken from you.
I realized early on that I would forgo making a "normal life" for myself. No wife, no kids, no mortgage locking me down. As such I have been able to take the jobs I wanted and leave most of the jobs I didnt want and not play politics because I didn't need to kill myself to get that promotion to pay for Billy's private school or the bathroom addition or the SUV for the wife. I let the suckers fight in the rat race while I enjoy a modest level of success that I am comfortable with given my lack of liabilities.
So by the time retirement comes around Ill be in great shape mentally, physically, and financially but at the cost of a 20 year detour in life. I can tell you that my time is much more valuable to me now in my mid 30's than it was in my 20's. Ive been training/shooting guns my entire career, and networking thusly with very like minded people. Once Im done, Ill go into the same line of work on the civilian side of things where I can further expand my network if the storm clouds on the horizon materialize into a CAT V hurricane.
El_Gostro, it seems like you've hit a rough patch in life and you see the military as a way to either escape your situation or give yourself time to regroup and move into a different direction. It takes someone focused on very specific goals while being willing to make certain major sacrifices to be successful in this line of work. The military is not and should not be used as a safety net. Based on what Ive read here I would not recommend it.
Sadly, the military in either active or reserve component does not currently have a good ROI for most of the population. People who enlist at about their mid 20's or later have an unfortunately well earned stigma of not being able to make it on the outside, and aren't all that great on the inside either (always exceptions though). One thing to consider is that rarely is it merely a "4 yr gig". You enlist for an 8 year commitment, of which 4-6 years are active duty and the remainder are reserve. The veteran membership has done a good job of explaining the negatives, so I won't beat a dead horse too much. Rather Ill attempt to explain the limited circumstances in which enlisting might be worthwhile and some of the positive benefits as I have used them.
Also didnt see it mentioned here, but regardless of age, at certain ranks most times you will live in communal housing. Barracks or on ship. Until you are E4 over 4 yrs or E5 then you can request to live out in town and receive housing allowance. I lived in a top bunk in a stank ass room with 60 other dudes for 3 years. I was 18 so I didnt give a fuck as long as I had beer money and some pussy on the weekends. But ask yourself if you can put up with that loss of freedom.
Job Security
-First a bit on the myth of the "security" of military service. As with anything else, there is none. Due to the poor economy there is unprecedented retention which brought about force shaping tools such as PTS, C-WAY, etc which are ways to arbitrarily give someone the boot. Things like failing a PT test, DUI, low performance evals can take away your ability to re enlist. There have also been a few disastrous initiatives like ERB where a number of senior people in Zone C (10-14) years were summarily given the boot. Imagine being in for 15 years thinking "hey I just have to stick it out 5 more years and I get that sweet pension" and you get a "sorry shipmate, pack your bags". 2 of my close friends got that business.
Job Skills
-Valuable Skills. As stated above, BS. Recruiters will lure you into certain MOS or rates to meet their quotas with the promise of instant job offers when its time to get out. Very few skills will directly transfer, even less if you have no leadership/management role. Most guys who spend 20-30 years in go right back to work doing GS work, contracting, or support. Why do you think that is? Security clearances are very helpful, but not the panacea they are claimed to be unless you have the skills desired. If I have a clearance and work on guns, I won't be marketable to a LAN job.
That said, a few jobs that could directly transfer to a civilian employer, with the caveat that you will only be at a marketable experience level after 4-6 years OJT minimum preferably 10+ with experience managing a team of people and different configurations.
-IT specifically LAN Admin, bonus for Secret networks
-Comms tech into a telecom job
-Navy DC into a civilian firefighter
-Medic/Corpsman - they have some really in demand specialties
-Marksmanship instructor
-Aviation mechanic
-Machinist
-Navy HT if you can get certified on nuclear welds or SUBSAFE there is $$$
-Air traffic controller
Entitlements
-30 days leave, great deal right? You accrue those 30 days but rarely get to take them all, in fact I lost 6.5 days this year because of it.
-Non taxable special pays, excellent deal! About 1/3 of my pay is non taxable as "allowances".
-Can minimize income tax burden by establishing residency in a state w/o income tax. I haven't paid any in 16 yrs.
-Healthcare, free. Not the best, but not the worst. I can count the number of times Ive used it on one hand. Stay healthy and you won't need it.
-Tuition Assistance. 16 credits college per semester free.
Benefits
-Post 9/11 GI Bill. Fully funded to the max in state rate of college tuition plus living/fee stipends.
-Hiring preference for govt jobs
-Anecdotal but you get a bit more street cred with a DD214 all others being equal.
Networking
-Its harder as junior personnel to network but not impossible. To truly expand your network to a global scale you need to work at it over a career of, you guessed it, worldwide assignments. But even after a 4 year active duty tour you can make some serious contacts in the military, contractor, and logistics areas. Especially if you are aware of the need for it and are sociable.
Conclusion
There are still some who can make a good go of it in the military, either short or long term. You can also choose certain jobs that have a minimum of feminist bullshit, these usually correspond to the jobs with the most physical labor. The trade off is your life is on hold for XX years, and the question is can you get enough return on that time to make it worthwhile? Is giving up 4-8 years of freedom worth it for a free college degree? Or is 20 years worth it for a small pension and mediocre health care? Depends on what you take for yourself from the journey compared to what is taken from you.
I realized early on that I would forgo making a "normal life" for myself. No wife, no kids, no mortgage locking me down. As such I have been able to take the jobs I wanted and leave most of the jobs I didnt want and not play politics because I didn't need to kill myself to get that promotion to pay for Billy's private school or the bathroom addition or the SUV for the wife. I let the suckers fight in the rat race while I enjoy a modest level of success that I am comfortable with given my lack of liabilities.
So by the time retirement comes around Ill be in great shape mentally, physically, and financially but at the cost of a 20 year detour in life. I can tell you that my time is much more valuable to me now in my mid 30's than it was in my 20's. Ive been training/shooting guns my entire career, and networking thusly with very like minded people. Once Im done, Ill go into the same line of work on the civilian side of things where I can further expand my network if the storm clouds on the horizon materialize into a CAT V hurricane.
