[Mercenary]

(07-23-2016 01:47 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Dressed like that, they look absolutely ridiculous.

[weambulance]

They're probably a lot more worried about friendly fire than getting shot by the shooter, and frankly, they're right to be.

[spokepoker]

Florida or Germany?

[Parzival]

If you are part of a special unit and on alert, it mean you can be off duty but have to be in the department when there is a call. This means you arrive in the clothes you have on. About 30° in Munich this day, means you have shorts mostly. Compare them to the officers that are active on duty, they don't have shorts. They give you our weapons and you roll. The warn west are there because it was an extreme chaotic situation. Calls of multiple shooters all over Munich. To prevent friendly fire. And how they look doesn't matter, they are well trained.

[Wutang]

This shooting fits the pattern more of the rampage shootings we see in the US like the guy who shot up the movie theater in Aurora, CO then the Muslims terrorist attacks we've see in Europe. The guy acted as a lone wolf, was heavy on medication, and killed himself in the end - very similar to shootings we've seen here in the States and not to ISIS terrorists.

As for this:

Quote:

That would also explain him shouting back to the people that "He is German." That statement makes sense.

Quote:

People can claim anything that they want, but it doesn't make it true.

The issue isn't whether he is a "real" German or not. Rather it's the fact that he identifies as one. If he was an Islamic terrorist then it's less likely he would want to be associated with Europeans and other kafirs.

[GlobalMan]

(07-23-2016 02:19 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

If you are part of a special unit and on alert, it mean you can be off duty but have to be in the department when there is a call. This means you arrive in the clothes you have on. About 30° in Munich this day, means you have shorts mostly. Compare them to the officers that are active on duty, they don't have shorts. They give you our weapons and you roll. The warn west are there because it was an extreme chaotic situation. Calls of multiple shooters all over Munich. To prevent friendly fire. And how they look doesn't matter, they are well trained.

How it "looks" isn't what I'm referring to- it's how it affects your performance.

When you're going into a situation like that you have no idea what you will end up needing to do- crawl through broken glass, hop over pointy fences, stay on your knees for an extended period- all things that can become agonizing by simply wearing improper clothes, and it affects your ability to focus on the task. It's foolish.

Of course team members will be off duty at times, SWAT team members in the U.S. are also off duty at times- but there's a procedure when they are called up, either they head in to base or there's a unit that always remains stocked with the gear that meets them on scene prepared with all their gear to change into.

These guys got the Mp5, comms, mask, gloves and even duty belt in some cases from somewhere/someone- that someone/place should have had all the gear required. Unexpected things happen, that's why there should be protocol in place to ensure the men have the gear required, there should be almost no scenarios where a large cities tac team has to fight a gun battle in Pumas and jean shorts. Coming from off duty shouldn't affect that- if a police department has the procedures in place.

There are times when you'll see cops dressed like that in the U.S. with an AR15, who have just come in to help in an emergency, I think even during Dallas there was a cop dressed similar to these Germans- but he was helping to guard the station, definitely not part of the main responding tac team searching for the shooter.

In this case this poor planning has even further knock effects- they have to wear the Hi-Vis vests because they are in normal clothes, but wearing a Hi-Vis vests severely inhibits their ability to move into positions and remain unnoticed, putting them in even more danger.

For a country/region that has been experiencing numerous terrorist attacks there is little excuse for this potentially dangerous lack of preparation.

[8ball]

5 of the shooting victims are kosovo albanians, 3 of them dead- 2 of them young girls.
The cnn witness was also from kosovo.

Daily mail reporting that he may have been bullied by them at school. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a case of those girls not wanting to fuck him.

[weambulance]

Yes, wearing the wrong kit is the kind of mistake you only make until you do something like kneel directly on a piece of glass in shorts. You'll never make that mistake again.

I'm a lot more concerned that I don't see any appreciable spare ammunition on those guys.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-23-2016 12:32 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  

CONFIRMED: IT WAS MOSSAD!
Same Israeli photo-propagandist pre-positioned in Nice and now Munich.

I looked into the journalist. He is from Munich, studied there and has the address of his blog there. So he actually lives in Munich. If something was started to go on, then it is not impossible for him to have driven there. He was not the one doing the filming of the shooting itself - that would be "too coincidental".

[spokepoker]

I have a feeling, if that conversation between him and the guy in the apartment happened in America, the guy in the apartment would have just shot him from his deck with a mosin.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-23-2016 07:42 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 06:37 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Yeah - if true, then Islam is not responsible for his actions at least this time.

This is conjecture. I feel as if the ethnic pattern of terrorism, to which this man fits, is better evidence than any such conjecture that he wasn't motivated by Islam or a hatred for Europeans.

Doesn't seem like that - most of his victims were Kosovars and Turks - those groups that bullied him the most in his Hartz-4-Social-Security poverty ridden school.

Quote:

Guy was obviously more a secular German than Iranian. (Usually fits my experience with ex-Iranians as I have 4 acquaintances in my circle who are all ex-Muslims and rather spiritually inclined - secular/spiritual just like me).

I don't see how it's obvious.

Obvious to me, but we may disagree.

Quote:

His actions thus make much more sense since he made some derogatory statements about foreigners.

This is rationalization that contradicts the pattern.

The statements were not made by him on that day - except on the forum when he called out Turks "shitty Turks".

Quote:

All in all - perfectly assimilated German - just a psycho one.

There is no such thing as a perfectly assimilated German. Germans are Germans, and non-Germans are not Germans. Besides, a theoretical "perfectly assimilated (non-racial) German" would not hold dual citizenship to Iran.

Perfetly assimilated is too much - I agree. The dual citizenship for an 18 year old was certainly organized by his parents - it is preferential to have those even for simple potential business reasons. Does not mean much in reality. If you are 19 you can attempt to get one if your father for example had been born in Iran - depending on the country and the join agreements then you may get them.

As for the assimilation of non-racial Germans into Germany - that is a tricky question. I fully agree that a people should have a home country. Letting in too many immigrants which are too different or totally different destroys the country. The closer the immigrants are in terms of looks, mental attitudes, race, religion, IQ, the more of them you can let them in and expect them to behave more like Germans within 1-3 generations (Eastern Europeans, Anglo-Saxons, Scandinavians - even Italians) - the less they have in common with Germans, the more likely will they remain foreigners even in the 3rd generation (Turks, many Africans - though Christian Africans integrate much better than the average Muslim - but they will look different for 2-3 generations even if they marry only Whites, many Middle Eastern Muslims etc.).

That is however a fundamental question and every country should only let in a tiny amount of very "diverse" people from your own population. Currently the elite is deliberately attempting to wipe out indigenous White countries and we probably agree that this is an evil and genocidal measure. But that is not the question here.

Quote:

That would also explain him shouting back to the people that "He is German." That statement makes sense.

People can claim anything that they want, but it doesn't make it true.

Quote:

Either way - case closed at least with the info we've got.

I don't think so.

And ISIS is not the end-all of militant Islam or other anti-European terrorism.

The entire operation and the videos we saw do not make sense from a Jihad perspective.

An Islamist calling himself German while intending to die in Jihad is a disgrace and he is risking at least 70 of his 72 virgins. As Erdogan said - integration is a sin.

I am not cucking for Islam for sure - I criticize it severely and would actually recommend banning it worldwide, but I don't think this crime fits into Islamic terrorism. We can disagree, but there is simply too much off.

Currently I understand Islamist logic well enough and I have listened also sufficiently to Ex-Muslims like IntrovertedSmiles, ThePharao, Converted2Islam, TheMaskedArab to know how the mental engrams are built. I know a few Muslims myself, but that is tainted since I know only secular spiritual Ex-Muslims very well

Anyway - in my opinion this case is something else. Meanwhile while we speak a few dozen or hundred crimes have been committed by the "German" rapefugees within the last 24 hours - we don't need to deny that.

[nomadbrah]

Iranians generally do not like turks. If you follow any online discussion between the two, there is a lot of animosity. It's not unlikely at all that this iranian had it in for turks, particularly if he is the secular type and was bullied by turkroaches.

[Cuchulainn2016]

(07-23-2016 02:10 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:47 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Dressed like that, they look absolutely ridiculous.

I'm from the UK, and it has been really hot this week. There is a stereotype of the Brit male, who, as soon as it goes over 18 degrees (celcius) will wear nothing but a pair of shorts. This goes for the Germans too.

People I work with turn up in shorts in hot weather, and its not really appropriate, and we are not office workers, if you know what I mean.

What did surprise me was all the boxhead cops wearing high-vis vests, in a tactical situation! I thought we Brits had the high-vis market cornered!

[Cuchulainn2016]

(07-23-2016 02:32 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

Yes, wearing the wrong kit is the kind of mistake you only make until you do something like kneel directly on a piece of glass in shorts. You'll never make that mistake again.

I'm a lot more concerned that I don't see any appreciable spare ammunition on those guys.

you think that is bad, last year, police in London did live training on active shooter/homicide bombers training. Way before that, we were shown the new UK (English) counter terror police.

Check out the plastic mag. Isnt it nice to be able to see how many rounds are left. But why the fuck would you turn up with half a mag in the first place?!



And the officer is female, but luckily she is covered up enough not to offend followers of the religion of peace.

[hydrogonian]

(07-23-2016 09:27 PM)Cuchulainn2016 Wrote:  

I actually think that their equipment is practical for the threat level, fashion aside.

MP5's make a lot more sense than do 5.56 rifles for these situations in my opinion as an armchair general. That choice, alone, earns big points if we are going to get nit picky about it.

The vests are so the bystanders, the perps, ad the other team members identify them as police without an extra second delay in processing time.

The balaclavas are apparently necessary in Europe to prevent being targeted.

The shorts probably just mean that they chose to arrive sooner rather than switch out of their civies. Given the shooter was executing people, I think this was a sound decision. Side benefits probably include more agile movement, staying cooler, and laughs for later.

The only thing that I see missing, that they should probably have, are plate carriers. Approaching an active shooter without body armor is pretty dumb for a cop. It only takes one bullet.

[Cuchulainn2016]

(07-23-2016 09:46 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 09:27 PM)Cuchulainn2016 Wrote:  

I actually think that their equipment is practical for the threat level, fashion aside.

MP5's make a lot more sense than do 5.56 rifles for these situations in my opinion as an armchair general. That choice, alone, earns big points if we are going to get nit picky about it.

The vests are so the bystanders, the perps, ad the other team members identify them as police without an extra second delay in processing time.

The balaclavas are apparently necessary in Europe to prevent being targeted.

The shorts probably just mean that they chose to arrive sooner rather than switch out of their civies. Given the shooter was executing people, I think this was a sound decision. Side benefits probably include more agile movement, staying cooler, and laughs for later.

The only thing that I see missing, that they should probably have, are plate carriers. Approaching an active shooter without body armor is pretty dumb for a cop. It only takes one bullet.

MP5s are great CQB weapons, but the fact they have them is ID enough in Europe to be honest.

Going to digress here, I travel a lot, and in UK airports I always wonder why they carry 5.56 rifles as well as 9mm for airport police. That round will go thougt the adherent of the religion of peace, and then through 5 rows of baggage drop off points made of flimsy plastic like nothing.

Back to the subject matter, if I am in Europe, hear gunshots, see 4 guys carrying western weapons, and working together, I'm not afraid.

If I'm police/military, I will tag them friendly immediately, no need for high-vis vests.

the balaclava for remaining covert thing is mostly "security theatre", outside of Northern Ireland (10 years ago) or mainland Europe (30 years ago).

Its not needed for covert reasons, its just the done thing now. Though these days, it is used to cover up the presence of military SF in the area, as well as police. Though those in the know can ID them by their different equipment, tactics and demeanour.

Or, so I have heard. *wink wink, nudge nudge, etc*

[spokepoker]

(07-23-2016 09:37 PM)Cuchulainn2016 Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 02:32 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

Yes, wearing the wrong kit is the kind of mistake you only make until you do something like kneel directly on a piece of glass in shorts. You'll never make that mistake again.

I'm a lot more concerned that I don't see any appreciable spare ammunition on those guys.

you think that is bad, last year, police in London did live training on active shooter/homicide bombers training. Way before that, we were shown the new UK (English) counter terror police.

Check out the plastic mag. Isnt it nice to be able to see how many rounds are left. But why the fuck would you turn up with half a mag in the first place?!

[img][/img]

And the officer is female, but luckily she is covered up enough not to offend followers of the religion of peace.

That's not half a mag, the space is the spring being compressed, it is a double stack mag, so probably is full capacity 30rnds. The transparency is a neat gimmick, but once you're down to 10 rnds you really can't tell how many are left due to the mag well. It's not that necessary since if you are going into a heavier zone, after a light zone, you exchange fresh so you don't reload in the heat.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-23-2016 01:47 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  



Don't even know where to start with this.

Hi-vis vests on a tac team?? Crazy.
Shorts and sneakers? Never seen anything like this. They had time to put on belt and comms and mask and gloves, get your damn gear on.

The explanation for this is not that German cops are some kind of ISIS fighters with sneakers and cargo shorts. Also it's not a deliberate German SWAT team fashion choice because it is hot. Germany is not some kind banana republic.

The reports are that they called in hundreds of off-duty and standby officers. The men rushed in and obviously only got weapons and vest distributed from logistics. Then they rushed out trying to shut down the active shooter. Any second too late and more people could have died. Also at that time they had multiple reports since an accident that happened on the same day was presumed to be associated with another shooter.

If they had more time, then they would have driven to the station and got the full gear on, but that might have taken 15-30 minutes.

So in that pic you see officers Hans to Thomas in their daily private "gear" - probably were strolling around with wife or kids when they got the call.

[spokepoker]

I still think the road safety vests are funny.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(07-23-2016 01:47 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  





Don't even know where to start with this.

Hi-vis vests on a tac team?? Crazy.
Shorts and sneakers? Never seen anything like this. They had time to put on belt and comms and mask and gloves, get your damn gear on.

(07-23-2016 02:01 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  

I thought they just started handing out mp5's to highway cleanup crews.
Maybe the shooter turned on his texture hack.

Not far off the mark. The next islamic terrorists may well make their initial attack in traditional garb and then quickly transition to shorts, sneakers, a tacky fluoro police vest and a balaclava. If they keep their shit together then they could seriously mop up the first responders.

Without the stupid masks then it wouldn't be such an issue, and the cops should have a means of at least being able to wear their badge equivalent in a prominent position.

[Suits]

(07-24-2016 02:56 AM)spokepoker Wrote:  

I still think the road safety vests are funny.

It's entirely possible that there is a police policy or law in Germany that to open-carry a firearm as a police officer, they need to be wearing an identifiable police uniform.

Since these guys got called in from wherever they were, my theory is that someone made the decision that raiding everyone's lockers for police uniforms that would fit would be too much trouble, so it was quickly deemed an easier solution to just hand out hi-visibility vests with the word "Polizei" on them.

[The Beast1]

Seeing pictures like that one above of the cops in the yellow vests kills me. That type of stuff would never fly in America.

Honestly, i feel safer in America than i do in Europe. At least American cops carry real ammo and proper vests. The nitwits here in the UK are all unarmed.

How long do you guys think it will be before European and UK police are all carrying pistols?

[Going strong]

(07-24-2016 03:22 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 02:56 AM)spokepoker Wrote:  

I still think the road safety vests are funny.

It's entirely possible that there is a police policy or law in Germany that to open-carry a firearm as a police officer, they need to be wearing an identifiable police uniform.

Since these guys got called in from wherever they were, my theory is that someone made the decision that raiding everyone's lockers for police uniforms that would fit would be too much trouble, so it was quickly deemed an easier solution to just hand out hi-visibility vests with the word "Polizei" on them.

Or the police didn't really care: they perfectly knew that the incident was over, that the single killer was dead, and were just acting for the public's and media satisfaction?

[Suits]

I found some more images for critique.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Anyone else having flashbacks from various footage from Rhodesia?

Meanwhile, this post at Gates Of Vienna puts the whole Brevik matter into perspective.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/07/terrori...gian-left/