[JWLZG]

An issue that has limited me a fair bit since before getting into game is how to acknowledge guys who are friends of a target of your approach.

If he's going out with one of her girlfriends, that's cool, it's usually not an issue. He may in fact be more of a help than a cockblock.

All other times though, I still find it to be a limiting hurdle to game someone when she's got a guy friend around. Of course I should aim to isolate us, but it gets tricky the smaller the group it is, down to where it's just her and the guy (but they're not apparently going out). I don't think I'm alpha enough to go Mystery Method on a platonic couple.

Earlier today, I came across the musico chick from this approach at a café. She was with a guy, but from the best I could judge, it didn't look like a date, or that they were involved in any other way. I thought, fuck it, and headed to her table, in good time as well, as the dude had left for a bit.
Before a few minutes, he had returned, so I cut short the interaction and asked her about her next gig. It's that far ahead (a couple of weeks) that we could have arranged a date prior to!
I didn't really acknowledge the guy. He didn't look like the cockblocking type, so I don't know why I let him bother me.

Could I have realistically number closed her in spite of the dude? I was confident enough to have approached in that situation anyway. I'm pissed off about how I let him become an obstacle alongside the thought of looking like a third wheel.

It's hard to come up with answers to every such situation like this, because I've come across the guy friend issue in night game as well. It's less of an issue in social circle game (social proof).

[XPQ22]

For solo night game at least, two sets of a guy and a girl might as well not exist. It's way too much effort to figure out what the dynamic is, and even if the guy is 100% "gay best friend" the odds of being cockblocked are overwhelming.

There's a thread here somewhere about approaching three sets of two girls and a guy, which probably has a somewhat better chance of success, though I haven't tried it. I pretty much follow the "Approachable Girl Metric" to the letter:

http://www.rooshv.com/the-approachable-girl-metric

If you're even considering solo approaching groups with an equal number of men and women (including 1 and 1) I'd say it's simply a bad venue and you need to try somewhere else.

Also, just from a personal "ethics" standpoint, I would generally feel that I was being obnoxious and a nuisance approaching a male-female couple, regardless of what my gut feeling on his "friend zone" status was.

It also feels a bit like pedestalization; gee whiz now she's got two guys chatting with her, blow her ego up a little more. No sadder sight than to see four guys out front of a bar leaning in and chatting and giggling at every word that comes from the mouth of some lame "6" standing there smoking a cigarette.

[Dino]

You could change the thread title to:

The guy that wants to fuck her or is thinking about how he had fucked her.

[XPQ22]

(07-10-2016 09:06 AM)Dino Wrote:  

You could change the thread title to:

The guy that wants to fuck her or is thinking about how he had fucked her.

Quote:

He didn't look like the cockblocking type

All the men who aren't the "cockblocking type" are probably here, and even that probably isn't a 100% guarantee. Did he show OP his RooshV Forum membership card?

[TornadoByProxy]

Good thoughts from XPQ22.

I'd add, the girl knows how she appears to the world with this guy. She knows she has an additional barrier up. Most girls in this situation aren't out to meet a guy.
But you sometimes get one of two personality extremes. She may really like guys bold enough to approach anyway. Or she may get off on humiliating the guy with her when another guy approaches.
You need to judge the situation, but if the girl isn't uncomfortable for her guy friend, then you shouldn't be either.
Could you have number closed? Of course you can sometimes.

[XPQ22]

(07-10-2016 09:16 AM)TornadoByProxy Wrote:  

Good thoughts from XPQ22.

I'd add, the girl knows how she appears to the world with this guy. She knows she has an additional barrier up. Most girls in this situation aren't out to meet a guy.
But you sometimes get one of two personality extremes. She may really like guys bold enough to approach anyway. Or she may get off on humiliating the guy with her when another guy approaches.
You need to judge the situation, but if the girl isn't uncomfortable for her guy friend, then you shouldn't be either.
Could you have number closed? Of course you can sometimes.

Another thing I watch out for is the "trap approach" - this happens to me at least once an evening when at a night game venue it seems. It's when a girl approaches you at the bar and seems really interested, and you think you've got a solid prospect on your hands; you're itching to move from your spot to go after her and see if you can follow up the interaction/isolate.

Hold up just a minute, player, and don't move your ass an inch. If you stay put and take a moment to watch, I guarantee you that 75% of the time she's going to walk right back across the room to a group of male orbiters, or even her boyfriend. At the very least, a large mixed gender group. Try to follow up the "trap approach" girl into that jungle and you're very likely to get the harshest of blowouts.

They're playing first and second degree "Rapo", aka "Kiss Off" and "Buzz Off, Buster!", straight out of Eric Berne circa 1959.

http://www.ericberne.com/games-people-play/rapo/

[JWLZG]

(07-10-2016 08:56 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

For solo night game at least, two sets of a guy and a girl might as well not exist. It's way too much effort to figure out what the dynamic is, and even if the guy is 100% "gay best friend" the odds of being cockblocked are overwhelming.

Noted. What about a slightly larger group; say a guy with a few other girls?

(07-10-2016 08:56 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

There's a thread here somewhere about approaching three sets of two girls and a guy, which probably has a somewhat better chance of success, though I haven't tried it. I pretty much follow the "Approachable Girl Metric" to the letter:

http://www.rooshv.com/the-approachable-girl-metric

It's a bit less of an issue, and it's worked in my favour in the past, as I said in my OP. Because the gender dynamic is now balanced, I've found it a quantum leap easier (managed to isolate her).

(07-10-2016 08:56 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

If you're even considering solo approaching groups with an equal number of men and women (including 1 and 1) I'd say it's simply a bad venue and you need to try somewhere else.

Is it because it plays into her mindset, even if she would've been otherwise receptive to you?

(07-10-2016 08:56 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

Also, just from a personal "ethics" standpoint, I would generally feel that I was being obnoxious and a nuisance approaching a male-female couple, regardless of what my gut feeling on his "friend zone" status was.

You've got a point that it's not exactly cool to cut someone's grass, as we say here.
Even when you're not exactly sure where the other dude stands with her, there's a fine line between "Do unto others" and "survival of the fittest".

That probably explains why after acknowledging me, her responses came across as cooler than previously.

(07-10-2016 08:56 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

It also feels a bit like pedestalization; gee whiz now she's got two guys chatting with her, blow her ego up a little more. No sadder sight than to see four guys out front of a bar leaning in and chatting and giggling at every word that comes from the mouth of some lame "6" standing there smoking a cigarette.

True, whether or not she's used to it. That's why I decided to eject early.

(07-10-2016 09:15 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 09:06 AM)Dino Wrote:  

You could change the thread title to:

The guy that wants to fuck her or is thinking about how he had fucked her.

Quote:

He didn't look like the cockblocking type

All the men who aren't the "cockblocking type" are probably here, and even that probably isn't a 100% guarantee. Did he show OP his RooshV Forum membership card?

OK, what I wrote sounds stupid in hindsight. And to be fair, she's attractive enough and in the sort of industry (music) to not be completely "single" for long.

I'll play it by ear next time I see her. It's my fault for not number closing those couple of months ago.

(07-10-2016 09:27 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(07-10-2016 09:16 AM)TornadoByProxy Wrote:  

Good thoughts from XPQ22.

I'd add, the girl knows how she appears to the world with this guy. She knows she has an additional barrier up. Most girls in this situation aren't out to meet a guy.
But you sometimes get one of two personality extremes. She may really like guys bold enough to approach anyway. Or she may get off on humiliating the guy with her when another guy approaches.
You need to judge the situation, but if the girl isn't uncomfortable for her guy friend, then you shouldn't be either.
Could you have number closed? Of course you can sometimes.

Another thing I watch out for is the "trap approach" - this happens to me at least once an evening when at a night game venue it seems. It's when a girl approaches you at the bar and seems really interested, and you think you've got a solid prospect on your hands; you're itching to move from your spot to go after her and see if you can follow up the interaction/isolate.

Hold up just a minute, player, and don't move your ass an inch. If you stay put and take a moment to watch, I guarantee you that 75% of the time she's going to walk right back across the room to a group of male orbiters, or even her boyfriend. At the very least, a large mixed gender group. Try to follow up the "trap approach" girl into that jungle and you're very likely to get the harshest of blowouts.

They're playing first and second degree "Rapo", aka "Kiss Off" and "Buzz Off, Buster!", straight out of Eric Berne circa 1959.

http://www.ericberne.com/games-people-play/rapo/

It's kind of disheartening considering how I routinely receive IOIs in night game (and have learnt to recognise them more and more) — and interpret that as having gotten the a-OK from her group. At that point I'd have thought, cool, it's game on easy mode, no need to bother disarming her group.

I can't just wish away that circle of protective girlfriends and jealous beta orbiters.

[XPQ22]

(07-10-2016 10:56 AM)JWLZG Wrote:  

It's kind of disheartening considering how I routinely receive IOIs in night game (and have learnt to recognise them more and more) — and interpret that as having gotten the a-OK from her group. At that point I'd have thought, cool, it's game on easy mode, no need to bother disarming her group.

I can't just wish away that circle of protective girlfriends and jealous beta orbiters.

Yep, as is a common saying around here: "Nothing's a sure thing until your cock is inside her." If IOIs and good rapport in night game meant you were in for the slam dunk even 25% of the time, we'd all be getting laid by a new girl five nights a week. Sadly, reality is more challenging, and even more so compared to just say 15 years ago.

You have to keep in mind that the whole purpose of bars/nightclubs is kind of a conspiratory hustle - most girls are there primarily to be seen and (mostly unconsciously) act as the bait, and the management has to bring them in and keep them happy to pull in the men.

Women generally don't end up places where they're socially at a disadvantage, so I don't think it goes too far to say that if you're in some location where there are a ton of young women who give the impression of making themselves available, in some sense the environment must be structured such that they have the upper hand. One of the reasons I think people often say "night game is dying" is that women probably never really liked going to bars and clubs to meet men, in the main. For most of the past century, it was simply the least worst option that existed to meet men outside of one's social circle, and with social media new avenues are opening up.

Like a casino, many men go in believing they're going to be winners. Only a few are. I think the first part of a solid strategy is recognizing that the tables that give the impression they're going to pay out the most probably won't.

If you ever want the ultimate trial-by-fire for night game, throw on some black dress clothes and go out solo to one of those "goth/industrial" nights many cities have at certain clubs. I've done this a couple times and posted about it once. The dynamic is similar to "regular" clubs, but the attention-whoring, orbiting, cockblocking, etc. is all turned up about ten notches. Run a few approaches if you dare, but be prepared for some of the harshest blowouts imaginable. And definitely take extra care around those jealous orbiters.

[DonnyGately]

If you avoid the girls with a harem of orbiters, I find Game significantly easier than, say, 2002.

The girl is more interested in her phone than you? That's not her fault. Step up your game. Or roll off, either way works.