[bushcraft9]

Shit happens mate, don't make yourself a victim. You have YouTube where you can find any channel under the sun to learn and develop skills. Guns, horsemanship, fishing and many other skills all enable you to live outside of society so why not look to go down that route instead of being one of those drones that just work for a pay check. Workaway is a great site where you can work cross the world, that could be an option. All the best

[The British Bulldog]

Actually it is only my mother is poor, because she fucked up her life through shitty choices i.e having me at 18 and leaving school with no qualifications.

My maternal grandfather however is much different, while he was born relatively poor and left school with no qualifications he worked as a plasterer for 20 years after leaving school at 14, and saved up enough income to start a Car Dealership with his friend. I remember my grandad working long hours, 60+ a week, however, he made very good money. He had a house with 5 bedrooms and three sportscars in an affluent area. I had a fairly privileged childhood, in that I was the most spoiled out of all my friends, I practically lived there instead of with my mum in our shitty council-estate, full of unemployed nihilistic genetic defects.

However, that all turned sour when my grandma had an affair at 56 on my grandad's best friend who he also owned the car-dealership with! That led to a divorce and my grandad's premature retirement, meaning that alimony and selling the house made most of my grandad's hard-work meaningless. Now I don't have my grandparents financial backing and safety net, to the same extent I once had I have to be very careful on the choices I make. Money really is the priority for me I won't sugercoat it. I always admired my grandad's work ethic and want to emulate him (except without being divorce-raped ofc).

[The British Bulldog]

(07-20-2016 11:13 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with university with your qualifications. Unless you're going to get into one of the top Russel Group universities, an economics degree isn't going to do you much good. If you end up at a crappy university, you are paying a vast amount of money for a worthless qualification, and you'll be no closer to a job at the end of it.

Have you considered joining one of the other services, police/fire brigade? Good career, solid pay, lots of specialisms open to you, cushy pension after 21 years.

It's not a popular thing to say in today's 'shoot for the stars', 'everyone's a winner' society, and it probably won't be popular here as many advocate packing up and just 'doing you' in some so-called 'pussy paradise', but in my view one of the best things someone like you can do in your situation is break the cycle of low opportunity for the next generation - your children.

I've mentioned on here before that, unlike you, I come from about the best, most privileged background anyone could possibly hope for. But it is only because 4 generations of my family have made tremendous sacrifices to ensure the next generation started life a little bit further on than the last. My great, great grandfather was a blacksmith in one of the naval dockyards. It is hard to overstate how far my family has come in terms of expectation and opportunity over those generations. The opportunities I have are the result of previous generations making conscious sacrifices they would never see the fruits of.

It's unglamorous, and in some respects thankless, but such sacrifice and foresight was once more common, and made us a very great people indeed. A steady, if unspectacular life, is not without tremendous value, meaning, and deep satisfaction. Such a life, and a commitment to a particular philosophy, would provide your children with opportunities that circumstances have most likely denied to you. If that were the worst case for all of us, we would be a very great people once again, within just a few generations.

After finishing my college diploma I will have racked up enough UCAS points to go to Leeds University to study economics, which is in the Russel Group. I wouldn't bother going to university if it was a shit one or for some useless liberal arts degree, but a degree in a rigorous subject like economics seems like it would be able to afford me getting a well-paying job. Maybe I'm just naive? After all you guys had bucket-loads more of experience than me

Plus the prospect of being the first in my family AFAIK to get a degree does seem appealing.

[Constitution45]

If you go to university, at least start work on the side, either on a skill, OTC (Military officer training corp) get involved with societies. There are a lot of opporutunities to be made from university but most people spend it drinking and chasing girls. Not exactly bad pursuits but those three years can provide you with a lot of free time that can be directed towards building a skill. If not university, then I would suggest joining the police or military. The kids who join up to those organisations at the ages of 19/20 are way ahead of the game, by the time college graduates are leaving, they will be making 35/40K a year plus gaining cool experiences, extra benefits to add that can be transferrable to the private sector. Again though depends on you knowing what you want and getting the most out of it.

Success is not really linear, especially nowadays when employment is all over the place. I have a friend who worked in insurance for 2 years after graduating with a degree in philosophy from one of these universities you mentioned. He has now got depressed, bored and invested in a paramedic science course, despite taking a pay cut. Another fella is a recruitment consultant, making 60K a year from commissions but he still wants to leave after a year and do something else. A lot of young guys in their 20s are teaching abroad and travelling, eventually coming back to do some soul destroying job. Point is that I am trying to make is that you are the one who is setting the benchmark, because there isn't a certain standard to reach nowadays.

Also some words of advice, I would avoid talking about your social background. Its a very British thing to do, but in fact it will just let people margnialize you or make things more difficult in the long run.

[H1N1]

(07-24-2016 04:24 PM)The British Bulldog Wrote:  

(07-20-2016 11:13 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with university with your qualifications. Unless you're going to get into one of the top Russel Group universities, an economics degree isn't going to do you much good. If you end up at a crappy university, you are paying a vast amount of money for a worthless qualification, and you'll be no closer to a job at the end of it.

Have you considered joining one of the other services, police/fire brigade? Good career, solid pay, lots of specialisms open to you, cushy pension after 21 years.

It's not a popular thing to say in today's 'shoot for the stars', 'everyone's a winner' society, and it probably won't be popular here as many advocate packing up and just 'doing you' in some so-called 'pussy paradise', but in my view one of the best things someone like you can do in your situation is break the cycle of low opportunity for the next generation - your children.

I've mentioned on here before that, unlike you, I come from about the best, most privileged background anyone could possibly hope for. But it is only because 4 generations of my family have made tremendous sacrifices to ensure the next generation started life a little bit further on than the last. My great, great grandfather was a blacksmith in one of the naval dockyards. It is hard to overstate how far my family has come in terms of expectation and opportunity over those generations. The opportunities I have are the result of previous generations making conscious sacrifices they would never see the fruits of.

It's unglamorous, and in some respects thankless, but such sacrifice and foresight was once more common, and made us a very great people indeed. A steady, if unspectacular life, is not without tremendous value, meaning, and deep satisfaction. Such a life, and a commitment to a particular philosophy, would provide your children with opportunities that circumstances have most likely denied to you. If that were the worst case for all of us, we would be a very great people once again, within just a few generations.

After finishing my college diploma I will have racked up enough UCAS points to go to Leeds University to study economics, which is in the Russel Group. I wouldn't bother going to university if it was a shit one or for some useless liberal arts degree, but a degree in a rigorous subject like economics seems like it would be able to afford me getting a well-paying job. Maybe I'm just naive? After all you guys had bucket-loads more of experience than me

Plus the prospect of being the first in my family AFAIK to get a degree does seem appealing.

Ok, Economics at Leeds could give you a meaningful leg up. I think that would be a good thing to pursue. But you should focus very hard on getting in there, and only there (unless you have other RG opportunities). Don't get hung up on University for the sake of it.

My advice is to focus on universities where children with rich parents and privileged backgrounds are still likely to go. Leeds fits that bill. It's important you're seen as being competitive with people who have had access to better educational opportunities.

From there, you should of course take advantage of all the hot young girls that you'll be surrounded with. Ideally join a sports club, be an active part of it. You need to create an impression of being a good team player, capable of mixing with everyone. You also need lots of opportunities to have real fun and make some great friendships.

Then, you should be proactive in going to careers fairs and in getting yourself to the attention of people in industries you'd like to go into. The kids from better backgrounds will blow this stuff off, and they can get away with it (I did, and I walked straight into all the desirable job interviews). You don't have the same luxury. Work hard, get yourself on a good internship (Accenture do some good ones over summer that seem to count with all the desirable firms, but preferably IB/commodities/accountancy/consultancy). With your background, don't take risks AT THIS STAGE. There are many excellent and interesting ways to make money, and it is not a train smash if you don't get an internship in the fields mentioned. However, without the inherent advantages of privilege, you should focus very hard on ticking boxes at this stage. Don't give anyone an excuse not to hire you by doing something Leftfield.

[jkray_]

@ British Bulldog

Having been through a similar situation, I thought I'd give my $0.02.

1. I sense an inferiority complex / chipped shoulder attitude. Get over this ASAP. You could have been born in a mud hut in Africa with no legs and £0 parental income. Granted by modern middle class UK standards your situation is tough, but now you've got to accept the hand you were dealt and move on and make the best of it. Don't waste energy complaining.

2. Don't worry about the army rejection. There are plenty more opportunities for much more £ out there.

3. I don't understand why other responses are proposing other work in the armed forces/police force etc?

My personal opinion:
--Government will sell you out as soon as they can
--Pay is shit
--You will lack skills to actually run a business once you've left
--Government (foreign) policy is a complete shambles. Those in power are deliberately gutting the indigenous population of the country. Why would you want to serve them?

4. I finished studying Economics at University (similar level to Leeds) last summer. 50% of my class are still unemployed (note: for most other degrees this figure is much higher). The ones that do have jobs mostly work in low paid corporate jobs (including receptionists, PAs, personal trainers etc). Perhaps 2% are in high paid (£50k+) jobs. These are not dumb kids. A 2:1 on the bit of paper is worthless. Be careful about falling into the trap of thinking you'll be the exception to the rule. Being blunt: your GCSEs are average and your A Levels are poor. I think you should consider it time to leave the education system.

5. Do NOT go to University (and get ~£50k in debt) for ego reasons ('first one in the family to go etc.).

6. My opinion:

Career:
--Start working in sales asap. Plenty of opportunities (property, recruitment etc.). You will likely have to start of small (weekend work, PA etc) but in a year or so you will start getting a more *customer facing* role (as long as you make this clear from the start). In 3 years (assuming you can learn to sell shit) you will be earning far more than your peer group just coming out of University and you can then start positioning yourself for a move into high value product sales (tech SaaS, high end property, yachts etc)

--Start your *side hustle* (I hate that phrase). There is a lot of money to be made online. Start learning about affiliate marketing, amazon FBA, dropshipping, ecommerce etc. Use this to supplement your main job income over time.

--Try and resist the urge to go travelling. Focus on money now, then you can fuck about for a year in your 30s when you've got some £ behind you.

--It's important to personally develop over these years also (philosophy, gym, girls, languages etc)

7. If you do choose to go to University:

--Your household income will qualify you for grants to cover 'reasonable living costs' (think £3-4k) -> In reality this is a pain in the arse and unlikely to cover your actual living costs. The government is also moving to scrap this in favour of more loans.
--Make sure you build your network (posh white kids, chinese/arabs etc)
--Learn skills (eg. computer programming)
--Make sure you are doing internships during your Easter and Summer holidays every year (lets you see what jobs you will like and builds your CV to out compete the other students when looking for a graduate position)
--Work on side hustle (see above)

Note: I have been very blunt in my post above, as it is generally the best way to provide advice. Regardless, if someone had spoken like this to me when I was 18, I would have thought they were a c**t and ignored them. My opinion comes from my experience and is valid as I went through a similar situation to you (and learned from my mistakes along the way). You are young, and having started earlier than most, have huge opportunities ahead of you.

[Constitution45]

(08-05-2016 03:46 AM)jkray_ Wrote:  

@ British Bulldog

Having been through a similar situation, I thought I'd give my $0.02.

1. I sense an inferiority complex / chipped shoulder attitude. Get over this ASAP. You could have been born in a mud hut in Africa with no legs and £0 parental income. Granted by modern middle class UK standards your situation is tough, but now you've got to accept the hand you were dealt and move on and make the best of it. Don't waste energy complaining.

2. Don't worry about the army rejection. There are plenty more opportunities for much more £ out there.

3. I don't understand why other responses are proposing other work in the armed forces/police force etc?

My personal opinion:
--Government will sell you out as soon as they can
--Pay is shit
--You will lack skills to actually run a business once you've left
--Government (foreign) policy is a complete shambles. Those in power are deliberately gutting the indigenous population of the country. Why would you want to serve them?

4. I finished studying Economics at University (similar level to Leeds) last summer. 50% of my class are still unemployed (note: for most other degrees this figure is much higher). The ones that do have jobs mostly work in low paid corporate jobs (including receptionists, PAs, personal trainers etc). Perhaps 2% are in high paid (£50k+) jobs. These are not dumb kids. A 2:1 on the bit of paper is worthless. Be careful about falling into the trap of thinking you'll be the exception to the rule. Being blunt: your GCSEs are average and your A Levels are poor. I think you should consider it time to leave the education system.

5. Do NOT go to University (and get ~£50k in debt) for ego reasons ('first one in the family to go etc.).

6. My opinion:

Career:
--Start working in sales asap. Plenty of opportunities (property, recruitment etc.). You will likely have to start of small (weekend work, PA etc) but in a year or so you will start getting a more *customer facing* role (as long as you make this clear from the start). In 3 years (assuming you can learn to sell shit) you will be earning far more than your peer group just coming out of University and you can then start positioning yourself for a move into high value product sales (tech SaaS, high end property, yachts etc)

--Start your *side hustle* (I hate that phrase). There is a lot of money to be made online. Start learning about affiliate marketing, amazon FBA, dropshipping, ecommerce etc. Use this to supplement your main job income over time.

--Try and resist the urge to go travelling. Focus on money now, then you can fuck about for a year in your 30s when you've got some £ behind you.

--It's important to personally develop over these years also (philosophy, gym, girls, languages etc)

7. If you do choose to go to University:

--Your household income will qualify you for grants to cover 'reasonable living costs' (think £3-4k) -> In reality this is a pain in the arse and unlikely to cover your actual living costs. The government is also moving to scrap this in favour of more loans.
--Make sure you build your network (posh white kids, chinese/arabs etc)
--Learn skills (eg. computer programming)
--Make sure you are doing internships during your Easter and Summer holidays every year (lets you see what jobs you will like and builds your CV to out compete the other students when looking for a graduate position)
--Work on side hustle (see above)

Note: I have been very blunt in my post above, as it is generally the best way to provide advice. Regardless, if someone had spoken like this to me when I was 18, I would have thought they were a c**t and ignored them. My opinion comes from my experience and is valid as I went through a similar situation to you (and learned from my mistakes along the way). You are young, and having started earlier than most, have huge opportunities ahead of you.

Quality advice, very good.

Recruitment consultancy is a good job to have, although from what I hear they are looking for those in their early 20s, recent grads etc. But I can't see why this would deter somebody like the OP from getting into via networking, being persistent and showing that they have that salesman spirit. Starting off with the low level recruitment consultancies. They job is boring but it will give you important skills in social dynamics and the pay is decent. A friend of mine was making around £60K a year by doing this through commissions.


The reason why I mentioned the police is because I have seen a lot of kids between the ages of 18-20 start this career. There is paid progression and if you are working for a big police force you can move around and get skills that can transfer into the private sector. Big financial consultancies, insurance companies, travel security groups hire ex officers with five years experience and pay them good money.

The ones who start early will be making £40K a year plus overtime/other benefits by the age of 25, while the ex graduates will be struggling making £25K a year without having any substantial previous experience. Generally speaking I would advise against governmental jobs, but the OP expressed a desire to join the military. I would say the police is a far better option unless you are routing for an officer position with an exit transition plan.

[jkray_]

@ Constitution45

Thank you my man.

I have also heard from friends that good recruitment consultants can earn high 5 figures by their mid 20s - not bad for a 10 hr/day gig. And yes, some of the firms require a degree, but plenty of others don't.

Fair enough, the pay is certainly better than I expected. However I question how working in the police or army will give you skills directly transferable to working for yourself (which is the ultimate goal in my humble opinion).