[nek]

Just curious, what would Germany's interest be in retaining the EU? From my understanding of things, Germany is basically financing the PIGS nations and has taken the brunt of the refugees (See the Chancellor's views on it.). What's really in it for them?

[RexImperator]

The prices of their exports are lower than if they went back to the Deutschmark.

[hydrogonian]

(06-27-2016 08:56 PM)nek Wrote:  

Just curious, what would Germany's interest be in retaining the EU? From my understanding of things, Germany is basically financing the PIGS nations and has taken the brunt of the refugees (See the Chancellor's views on it.). What's really in it for them?

It doesn't help to think of Germany as autonomous and therefore with autonomous interests. Thus, it's goals will not make sense through a lens of rational self-interest.

In its political form, Germany is an occupied and controlled state since WWII. The exact nature or form of this occupying force is difficult to determine, though one could speculate. The Banking Juntas out of London and New York are at least, in part, a safe bet.

Germany makes more sense if you think of it as a globalist puppet state that harnesses German industry and governmental competence to drive the EU project and anchor a center of power in Europe against Russia and Asia. The German people, insofar as they think anything beyond work and globalist propaganda, are an annoyance if not a liability for their potential to turn their competency against the globalist West. They're somewhat akin to dynamite to the Anglo-American establishment. It's a great tool, but dangerous when it isn't in control. Hobbling their society and eventually their competence with refugees is likely one way to mitigate that risk.

[Leonard D Neubache]

^That post is dynamite. Not the contained type either.

[Belgrano]

(06-27-2016 09:44 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

It doesn't help to think of Germany as autonomous and therefore with autonomous interests. Thus, it's goals will not make sense through a lens of rational self-interest.

In its political form, Germany is an occupied and controlled state since WWII. The exact nature or form of this occupying force is difficult to determine, though one could speculate. The Banking Juntas out of London and New York are at least, in part, a safe bet.

Germany makes more sense if you think of it as a globalist puppet state that harnesses German industry and governmental competence to drive the EU project and anchor a center of power in Europe against Russia and Asia. The German people, insofar as they think anything beyond work and globalist propaganda, are an annoyance if not a liability for their potential to turn their competency against the globalist West. They're somewhat akin to dynamite to the Anglo-American establishment. It's a great tool, but dangerous when it isn't in control. Hobbling their society and eventually their competence with refugees is likely one way to mitigate that risk.

Great post, stating the obvious though.

I wanted to post this in the Migrant Invasion thread, but thanks to your post it fits best in here now:


The blueprint for Merkel's migrant policy and the EU-Turkey deal was provided by the thinktank ESI (European Stability Initiative).

The thinktank is funded by, amongst others:

• Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency
• Open Society Foundations (George Soros)
• The government of Sweden
• The Rockefeller Foundation
• The European Commission
• The German Foreign Office
• The German Marshall Fund of the United States
• The Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
• The British Department for International Development
• The British Foreign & Commonwealth Office
• The United States Institute of Peace
  

The German wikipedia article says:

Quote:

During the migrant crisis of 2015 and 2016 experts of ESI developed the so called "Merkel-Plan", a program with the aim of bringing in 200,000 to 500,000 Syrian refugees from Turkey directly to Germany. Talking about this, ESI chairman Gerald Knaus claimed cooperation with Turkey was "without alternatives" to prevent an "Orbanisation" of the EU.

In an interview with a German newspaper, he said for example things like:

Quote:

Welt: That's just theory. In reality a German politician would have been met with public outrage if during last summer he had dared to openly say "We are going to bring in 500,000 asylum seekers." Everyone was secretly hoping it wouldn't be that many.
Knaus: Of course for us as a thinktank it's much easier to write down some number. That's why during the last few months we advised politicians: Don't state a total number for contingents from Turkey. Better talk about a daily contingent of a few hundred people. Our proposal is similar to the Berlin Airlift. It's sensible. But right now there's no definite end in sight.

Click here for the Merkel-Plan.

Summary:

Quote:

The Merkel Plan

This paper outlines how an agreement between Germany and Turkey could have an immediate and dramatic impact on the Syrian refugee crisis. It would restore control over Europe's south-eastern border without sacrificing compassion for the refugees. But with the far right resurgent across Europe, the window of opportunity for decisive action is closing fast.

We propose an immediate agreement between Germany and Turkey on the following points:

• Germany should agree to grant asylum to 500,000 Syrian refugees registered in Turkey over the coming 12 months.
• Germany already expects high numbers of refugees to arrive in Germany. But rather than waiting for them to undertake the perilous journey across the Aegean and the Western Balkans, Germany should accept claims from Turkey through a fair and orderly process and provide safe transport to successful applicants. The offer should be limited to Syrian refugees already registered with the Turkish authorities, to avoid creating incentives for new migration flows into Turkey. Other EU member states should join in.
• In return, from a specified date, Turkey should agree to accept back all new migrants reaching Greece from its territory. This would quickly reduce the flood of boats crossing the Aegean to a trickle.
• Germany should agree to help Turkey obtain visa-free travel in 2016.
  

The paper explains how the various practical and legal aspects of this agreement could be resolved. It explains why, in the face of escalating anti-migrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric from far right parties across Europe, an early solution is in the vital interests of both Germany and Turkey.

The "Merkel-Plan" was published: 4 October 2015
The EU-Turkey Deal was signed: 20 March 2016

[Parzival]

There are speeches of Merkel out there, one fro 2000 and one from 2010 where she said, Multiculture is failed and migrants have to accept the German customs. But well she also said in 2013 that the Internet is a new territory for all of us. She is in charge since 2005 and I can't see anything that did improve Germany. All the big problems are still out there.
Now the illusion of the German people start to crack up, in 5 to 15 years when nothing change we are so hard in a downfall that nothing will help. Then Germany will be a country with economical and social issues. Germans will try to emigrate to other countries in masses, it will be an exodus. Thats why you should have a plane to leave the EU, because when Germany goes down, the rest will go down as well. At the moment many shit can be covered by the high tax income and the good economic numbers.

[redpillage]

(06-29-2016 12:00 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

There are speeches of Merkel out there, one fro 2000 and one from 2010 where she said, Multiculture is failed and migrants have to accept the German customs. But well she also said in 2013 that the Internet is a new territory for all of us. She is in charge since 2005 and I can't see anything that did improve Germany. All the big problems are still out there.
Now the illusion of the German people start to crack up, in 5 to 15 years when nothing change we are so hard in a downfall that nothing will help. Then Germany will be a country with economical and social issues. Germans will try to emigrate to other countries in masses, it will be an exodus. Thats why you should have a plane to leave the EU, because when Germany goes down, the rest will go down as well. At the moment many shit can be covered by the high tax income and the good economic numbers.

Agreed - the dynamics of economies are actually quite fragile and subject to a natural cycle of boom and bust. Germany is at the tail end of a boom cycle now and for some reason started to believe its own fantasy of being a resilient economic powerhouse which is impervious to corrective cycles. Now Germany is obviously in a very fragile state right now and it would be very easy to disrupt the current boom cycle. All it takes is a political crisis or a series of terror attacks to launch a chain reaction of events that would lead to a situation where Germany is forced to host well over a Million resource draining immigrants on a drastically reduced budget.

Once that happens you will quickly see Germans replace ideology with common sense and self preservation. Of course by the time it happens it will be already too late. I've said it before here - the German culture is doomed and native inhabitants and their future offspring will have to deal with the cancer of Islam for many generations to come. The threshold of permanent and irrevocable damage has long been breached. I suggest you abandon all hope for Germany and if you still reside there make active plans to relocate over the next few years.

[Saweeep]

The Euro stops the DM strengthening out of control.

That's the main reason.

Isn't money always the reason?

[Foolsgo1d]

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

[Parzival]

(06-29-2016 01:23 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

Don't believe everything they tell you.

[Geomann180]

(06-29-2016 01:23 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

That's an abstraction of the history taught to you in school by the same cultural hegemony that you already know lies about women.

G

[Valentine]

(06-29-2016 01:31 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 01:23 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

Don't believe everything they tell you.

(06-29-2016 03:31 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 01:23 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

That's an abstraction of the history taught to you in school by the same cultural hegemony that you already know lies about women.

G

Well I'm intrigued now.

[Parzival]

(06-29-2016 04:31 PM)Valentine Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 01:31 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 01:23 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

Don't believe everything they tell you.

(06-29-2016 03:31 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 01:23 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

That's an abstraction of the history taught to you in school by the same cultural hegemony that you already know lies about women.

G

Well I'm intrigued now.

It is indeed when even the accepted historical facts are different. But this is how it works, at the end the Germans did start two world wars, all white men are rapist, black lives matter, and Islam is peace. The phrases of the new reality of cultural marxism goes on.

[eradicator]

I'll give you World War 2, but World War 1 was definitely not some sort of attempt by Germany to take over Europe.

Seriously, is that what kids are learning in World History classes?


http://americanhistory.about.com/od/worl...-war-1.htm

Quote:

Mutual Defense Alliances
Over time, countries throughout Europe made mutual defense agreements that would pull them into battle. These treaties meant that if one country was attacked, allied countries were bound to defend them. Before World War 1, the following alliances existed:

Russia and Serbia
Germany and Austria-Hungary
France and Russia
Britain and France and Belgium
Japan and Britain
Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia, Russia got involved to defend Serbia. Germany seeing Russia mobilizing, declared war on Russia. France was then drawn in against Germany and Austria-Hungary. Germany attacked France through Belgium pulling Britain into war. Then Japan entered the war. Later, Italy and the United States would enter on the side of the allies.

Immediate Cause: Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand
The immediate cause of World War I that made the aforementioned items come into play (alliances, imperialism, militarism, nationalism) was the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary. In June 1914, a Serbian-nationalist terrorist group called the Black Hand sent groups to assassinate the Archduke. Their first attempt failed when a driver avoided a grenade thrown at their car. However, later that day a Serbian nationalist named Gavrilo Princip assassinated him and his wife while they were in Sarajevo, Bosnia which was part of Austria-Hungary. This was in protest to Austria-Hungary having control of this region. Serbia wanted to take over Bosnia and Herzegovina. This assassination led to Austria-Hungary declaring war on Serbia. When Russia began to mobilize due to its alliance with Serbia, Germany declared war on Russia. Thus began the expansion of the war to include all those involved in the mutual defense alliances.

[Geomann180]

(06-29-2016 04:31 PM)Valentine Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 01:31 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 01:23 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

Don't believe everything they tell you.

(06-29-2016 03:31 PM)Geomann180 Wrote:  

(06-29-2016 01:23 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Germans have something their blood the same way Brits have. But Germans did try to take Europe for themselves twice remember.

That's an abstraction of the history taught to you in school by the same cultural hegemony that you already know lies about women.

G

Well I'm intrigued now.

Start with this; two conflicting statements.

1. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

2. History is written by the victors.

And don't forget this:

(06-30-2016 03:54 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

Seriously, is that what kids are learning in World History classes?

Yes.

G

[ivansirko]

Curious, what is the right history?

Germany AND the Soviet Union invaded Poland September 1939.
The Soviet Union and Japan fought an unknown border war in 1939 and because Japan lost they stopped looking toward Siberia and looked more towards their South.
For 7 Months Europe fought battle after battle during the Phony War. Pilots gallantly flew over enemy territory and dropped pamphlets. Even France invaded Saarland briefly.

We can tell ourselves Germany had designs on Europe (and they did) but Eastern Europe has a term called "The Western Betrayal" for a reason.
The West is 2 steps for doing it again this time to themselves.

[Foolsgo1d]

I see this thread is once again descending into "The joo's did it see?!" type of bullshit argument that most politics and conspiracy threads descend into now.

Next you'll be citing Alex Jones and Infowars as some bastion of credible knowledge. Oh wait, some already have!

[Saweeep]

The history of Europe is 3000 years of every power in existence trying to take over and unify the continent.

It's not a controversial statement to say this about any of them. Ever.

[hydrogonian]

(06-30-2016 09:50 AM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

I see this thread is once again descending into "The joo's did it see?!" type of bullshit argument that most politics and conspiracy threads descend into now.

Next you'll be citing Alex Jones and Infowars as some bastion of credible knowledge. Oh wait, some already have!

I see a polite, and pretty information light, discussion dancing around WWII.

And I see you nervously and curiously gate-keeping that discussion, at a too-early entry point to boot, while taking for granted how polite the conversation is.

Everyone here is probably glad to extend you manners, but I believe that I can speak for most when I tell you that we can't stand ham-fisted gatekeepers with no real skill at their self-styled job; and a sense of privilege that they can be insulting in their effort and still get away with it.

It's a real motivator to drop the pretense of politeness.

You should choose what road you want to go down.

[Parzival]

Something to add abut Germany and the EU, it was not the idea of Germany to create the EU or the organisations before. It was on idea of the USA and the other European countries to keep Germany in track. With the re education after the war German politicians did not trust the own citizens and put a strong effort on the so called western integration of Germany that we are in line with the other European countries and the USA.
Because of several reason this did not work well. As it seems Germany again is too big for Europe but too small to be a super power. Our economy did rise a way stronger then of those countries that did won the war, hell even the UK did lost their empire, France struggle. Now the southern European countries struggle too and who got the blame again? Germany. Germany just did manage to have a very strong economy and use the EU and the Euro to keep the own prices low and to export a lot. I get that. I don't support that but I also condemn the anti German hate that is still out there in many countries. Yes its wrong that Germany use the Euro to make more profit from its exports but never forget, who did start it in the first. Bring Germany in such organisation and reeducate the people?
Also its not the fault of Germany that the economy did developed better then in many other european countries. It's a cultural and mentality difference, the northern vs southern difference in Europe. Germany did not force Greece to fake the numbers to get into the EU. Germany don't force other countries to have a bad economy and do no reforms. I disagree with the politics how Germany did deal with Greece but Greece did fake the numbers first and many other countries have problems that you can't put on Germany. Sometimes I have the sad feeling that many people will be happy when Germany fail, deep inside they are passive aggressive against Germany out of several reasons. But those people should look at their own mistakes first. And never forget, it had be your countries that created the idea to bind Germany into multiple organisations to keep us low.

Also keep in mind that the USA is one of the biggest enemies against the EU and an united Europe. Because they did fear the idea of a counter currency to the Dollar. They did fear a united Europe that stands against their divide and conquer politics. Now with the migrant invasion, many of those people come from places where the USA did a mess. Its part of every military planing that when you wage a war, bomb places that there will be refugees. And from the middle east to Europe its just a short step. I wonder why the EU and the USA do not force countries like Qatar, Kuwait or Saudi Arabia to take some of those refugees.