[DarkTriad]

Beyond the usual tripe, a compassionate but commonsensical piece on the topic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...le/485618/

[MMX2010]

I also liked that article, even though it was in The Atlantic, a magazine that The Last Psychiatrist constantly lampoons. I was looking for the narcissistic agenda hidden beneath the words, but there was none; the article was "merely" a compassionate introductory look at the hidden negatives of praising academic intelligence, or IQ.

I'm reminded of many Vox Day articles, (too many to cite), which coalesce into the question, "As a society whose entire economic future requires us to maintain an average IQ of 115, how committed are we really to the education of low-IQ individuals, who are mostly Black and Hispanic?"

On the one hand, we have spent great gobs of money trying to uplift these populations, with such depressively tepid results that I can totally side with a "No longer committed..." argument. But, on the other hand, if we're no longer committed, what are we supposed to do with our low-IQ individuals, (who, by definition, will be at least 40% of us, if not 65% of us!)?

[GoodTimer]

Further down on the "Newspaper" page is another good article on management. The author, a philosophy graduate who achieved great success in management consulting, calls out MBA and management consultant B.S.

[stugatz]

I read that last night before bed - great article. Some people don't have an IQ of 150, and they need to be in careers that better suit them.

It stops short of connecting it to the problem of higher education today. That was originally meant for intelligent, thinking people, and no wonder academia is nothing but an indoctrination camp nowadays.

[Surreyman]

(06-18-2016 11:18 AM)stugatz Wrote:  

I read that last night before bed - great article. Some people don't have an IQ of 150, and they need to be in careers that better suit them.

It stops short of connecting it to the problem of higher education today. That was originally meant for intelligent, thinking people, and no wonder academia is nothing but an indoctrination camp nowadays.

This is so true. There's so few people who need to go to university. The vast majority of corporate office workers (think salesmen, project managers, HR and admin) do not need college. Most people who get a college education don't need it.

I would bet that as many as half of RVF college-educated users do not need/use their degrees.

This is why I recommend business studies as an alternative to typical Liberal Arts degrees. You learn usable knowledge.

[Laner]

As someone who is involved with youth, and has a vested interest in early childhood education, I have a bit of insight.

Smart kids can be held down by social issues. It happens all the time.

In the 90's smart kids were not the cool kids. Many of my brightest peers spent their time figuring out the social playing field instead of focusing on their studies. Over time, the influence of these other kids were too much to overcome.

What we have now is the opposite. In my neighborhood, the smart kids are the cool kids. Have a look at this bright kid from the Donald Trump thread thread-48360...pid1326805

This is the way its going. As the social groups move in this direction, my hopes are that it brings up the IQ of those who aspire to get into this group. For a while though- the past 20 years- the dumb kids are going to get hammered on as kids clamor for achievement.

Nothing happens instantly. We are a generation along since Smart = Geek, Dumb = Cool, and things are changing. Lets hope this trend continues.

[Speculation]

(06-18-2016 12:16 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

On the one hand, we have spent great gobs of money trying to uplift these populations, with such depressively tepid results that I can totally side with a "No longer committed..." argument. But, on the other hand, if we're no longer committed, what are we supposed to do with our low-IQ individuals, (who, by definition, will be at least 40% of us, if not 65% of us!)?

This ties in nicely with the arguments for and against Universal Basic Income.

One of the arguments is that automation is removing the jobs that could be filled by the less intelligent. These people can't participate in the new 'knowledge economy' except in make-work roles such as we see bloating the public sector. If we don't want riots then we need to provide for these people even though they aren't useful to the economy.

Its all quite interesting and its a problem that will need to be solved.

[Dalaran1991]

(06-18-2016 12:21 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  

I would bet that as many as half of RVF college-educated users do not need/use their degrees.

I was an honor student in a top-30 liberal arts college of the country. Still waiting for the day when I need to use ANY knowledge I learned in college that I couldn't learn by myself.

Shit, Paracelsus probably knows more than all the professors in my school combined.

College was more of a developmental phase, a sex camp and a huge waste of time.

[Kid Twist]

(06-19-2016 08:49 AM)Speculation Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 12:16 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

On the one hand, we have spent great gobs of money trying to uplift these populations, with such depressively tepid results that I can totally side with a "No longer committed..." argument. But, on the other hand, if we're no longer committed, what are we supposed to do with our low-IQ individuals, (who, by definition, will be at least 40% of us, if not 65% of us!)?

This ties in nicely with the arguments for and against Universal Basic Income.

One of the arguments is that automation is removing the jobs that could be filled by the less intelligent. These people can't participate in the new 'knowledge economy' except in make-work roles such as we see bloating the public sector. If we don't want riots then we need to provide for these people even though they aren't useful to the economy.

Its all quite interesting and its a problem that will need to be solved.

Slightly unrelated

Will there be a breakaway republic created that has lots of generally intelligent people with the use of robots as the "help" for lack of a better term? Basically, something that gets away from the requirement to import people who are different from the main group and thus disrupt the whole, eventually?

[MMX2010]

(06-20-2016 11:00 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Will there be a breakaway republic created that has lots of generally intelligent people with the use of robots as the "help" for lack of a better term? Basically, something that gets away from the requirement to import people who are different from the main group and thus disrupt the whole, eventually?

In my opinion, fuck no.

The overwhelming majority of high IQ people simply don't play nicely with others. Whether through psychological hang-ups, or social issues (as Laner put it), high IQ people are so annoying that I can't imagine being forced to speak only to them.

[Kid Twist]

^^^
I said "generally intelligent not "High IQ", but point well taken.

What is "High IQ" by the way, in your estimation?

[Kid Twist]

(06-20-2016 10:28 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 12:21 PM)Surreyman Wrote:  

I would bet that as many as half of RVF college-educated users do not need/use their degrees.

I was an honor student in a top-30 liberal arts college of the country. Still waiting for the day when I need to use ANY knowledge I learned in college that I couldn't learn by myself.

Shit, Paracelsus probably knows more than all the professors in my school combined.

College was more of a developmental phase, a sex camp and a huge waste of time.

It's part of the "certification" reality of slave/indentured servitude progression that started in the 1990s --- the pinnacle, and simultaneous downfall, of America.

Rankings became huge, to be a non-service worker you had to have "papers" and the elites in play all scurried to be the brokers of where each "paper" stood in the pecking order.

[Dark Triad Man]

(06-18-2016 12:16 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

But, on the other hand, if we're no longer committed, what are we supposed to do with our low-IQ individuals, (who, by definition, will be at least 40% of us, if not 65% of us!)?

The dark world typically solves this issue, in cyclic fashion, through social cataclysm.

Regards,

Ivan

[MMX2010]

KidTwist,

High IQ, in my opinion is 130+ (about plus 1.5 SD above the mean).

"Generally intelligent", to use your term, would be defined by me as 115+. But that would be only about 40% of people.

Could there be a breakaway nation of the smartest 40%? That's more plausible than High IQ, but I doubt it because there's some research correlating IQ with Openness to new experience. (If you don't know that the Big Five Personality Traits are, Google them.) This openness prevents people from wanting to "isolate" low IQ people, especially when IQ "isn't really anyone's fault".

[Leonard D Neubache]

I've never done an IQ test.

I'm assuming it can be done online but invariably finding a reliable one would be the hard part.

Can anyone suggest one in particular?

[Marcus187]

Being stupid is still the norm in most Western countries and will only get worse with the large influx of Africans, Arabs and other Muslims. They don't have a culture where they value education, career or learning. I see it in my own country how smart kids talk and behave like retards, because it's 'cool' and the girls like it. This disgusting culture of behaving like a degenerate has its origins in African/Muslim communities.

Also, a large proportion of the white population consists of retards. They create a culture where they want you to be mediocre and will drag you down if you want to be above average.

[Genghis Khan]

(06-23-2016 04:55 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

KidTwist,

High IQ, in my opinion is 130+ (about plus 1.5 SD above the mean).

"Generally intelligent", to use your term, would be defined by me as 115+. But that would be only about 40% of people.

Could there be a breakaway nation of the smartest 40%? That's more plausible than High IQ, but I doubt it because there's some research correlating IQ with Openness to new experience. (If you don't know that the Big Five Personality Traits are, Google them.) This openness prevents people from wanting to "isolate" low IQ people, especially when IQ "isn't really anyone's fault".

My understanding was that Opennesss and IQ were separate traits. Is that not what Geoffrey Miller meant when he called the Big Five and intelligence the Central Six personality traits? Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the idea of the Big Five/Central Six that they are independent traits?

[MMX2010]

(06-26-2016 03:28 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

My understanding was that Opennesss and IQ were separate traits. Is that not what Geoffrey Miller meant when he called the Big Five and intelligence the Central Six personality traits? Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the idea of the Big Five/Central Six that they are independent traits?

They are independent traits, but Openness and IQ are slightly correlated. I learned what the Big Five traits were through Geoffrey Miller, but I learned about the correlation between Openness and IQ from Johnathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind.

[Genghis Khan]

Gotcha, thank you! I read The Righteous Mind a long time ago, so the correlation did sound familiar.

[porscheguy]

(06-18-2016 12:31 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Nothing happens instantly. We are a generation along since Smart = Geek, Dumb = Cool, and things are changing. Lets hope this trend continues.

Don't know if I'd bet on it. Do they talk about this in Canada?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_white

[porscheguy]

(06-18-2016 12:16 AM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

I'm reminded of many Vox Day articles, (too many to cite), which coalesce into the question, "As a society whose entire economic future requires us to maintain an average IQ of 115, how committed are we really to the education of low-IQ individuals, who are mostly Black and Hispanic?"

On the one hand, we have spent great gobs of money trying to uplift these populations, with such depressively tepid results that I can totally side with a "No longer committed..." argument. But, on the other hand, if we're no longer committed, what are we supposed to do with our low-IQ individuals, (who, by definition, will be at least 40% of us, if not 65% of us!)?

1. There's a lot of dumb white trash in the world. It's not limited to black and hispanic.
2. What to do with the low IQ group? If there's really no place in society for them, then you make the choice simple. Sterilization and you get your UBI/welfare. No sterilization=starvation. It's not pleasant, but trash begets trash. If your mother has had children sired upon her by more than 1 or 2 men, the odds of you winning the Nobel prize are pretty fucking slim.

The US has tried to reconcile this issue before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000

[Laner]

(06-27-2016 02:46 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 12:31 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Nothing happens instantly. We are a generation along since Smart = Geek, Dumb = Cool, and things are changing. Lets hope this trend continues.

Don't know if I'd bet on it. Do they talk about this in Canada?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_white

I have never heard it discussed, but that doesn't mean shit.

It sounds a lot like 'acting white' means improving ones station in life, getting educated, having other people as friends besides your own skin colour.

If this is the case, then a good majority of people I know here are acting white. The closest to this conversation came up with me and a good friend (Black Jamaican Canadian) who asked me if my father ever was called an "Uncle Tom". I never heard this before so he explained.

The conversation then turned to buzzwords: Colonialism, open borders, etc, etc. We are good friends and will argue heatedly. We did not agree with much on this subject as I thought he was selling himself out. He is an entrepreneur, supports three employees and their families, he is married (to a white woman), and spends lots of time at (posh) community centers playing and teaching basketball. All things that I argued were things that BLM/Open borders were actively trying to destroy.

I hope this type of identity politics stays the fuck out of Canada. It would be a waste if my educated non white friends started to work against their own desires due to the same "crab in the bucket" mentality that I witness on Reserves.

[kinjutsu]

(06-27-2016 10:42 AM)Laner Wrote:  

(06-27-2016 02:46 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(06-18-2016 12:31 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Nothing happens instantly. We are a generation along since Smart = Geek, Dumb = Cool, and things are changing. Lets hope this trend continues.

Don't know if I'd bet on it. Do they talk about this in Canada?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_white

I have never heard it discussed, but that doesn't mean shit.

It sounds a lot like 'acting white' means improving ones station in life, getting educated, having other people as friends besides your own skin colour.

If this is the case, then a good majority of people I know here are acting white. The closest to this conversation came up with me and a good friend (Black Jamaican Canadian) who asked me if my father ever was called an "Uncle Tom". I never heard this before so he explained.

The conversation then turned to buzzwords: Colonialism, open borders, etc, etc. We are good friends and will argue heatedly. We did not agree with much on this subject as I thought he was selling himself out. He is an entrepreneur, supports three employees and their families, he is married (to a white woman), and spends lots of time at (posh) community centers playing and teaching basketball. All things that I argued were things that BLM/Open borders were actively trying to destroy.

I hope this type of identity politics stays the fuck out of Canada. It would be a waste if my educated non white friends started to work against their own desires due to the same "crab in the bucket" mentality that I witness on Reserves.

I grew up with this stuff constantly.
I'm mixed race but look black. I'm intelligent and articulate.

I've been told that I'm acting white, being an uncle tom, oreo etc. Basically just different ways for not going with the black ghetto culture.
After a certain point i stopped talking to black people. I never saw the value in associating with the ones in my city. I've never seriously considered a black girl as a partner let alone a fuck buddy or tinder bang.
Every time I'd meet up they'd get into a fight, steal some shit they didn't need or just cause problems.
The guys weren't any better either, same shit applies except they all thought they were gangbangers/drug dealers/rappers
As i grew older i realized they just were low IQ. Nothing they could do about it. It really hit home in junior high school.

I'd try to help with their school work, but most of the time if they couldn't understand a complex concept or problem they'd pretend like it wasn't a big deal.

Here's a small list of defense mechanisms I've seen:
-Quickly change the subject to something unrelated ie sports, some girl, music or videogames
-Act like you called them dumb/stupid and try to start a fight
-Say they don't need to learn this stuff because they are going to be a rapper, singer, basketball or football player. If you remind them how difficult it is then you're a hater etc.
-Get frustrated and simply ignore the problem and talk to some one else about how stupid the school work is.

In a way its very sad to see someone try to learn grade 10 math and just keep running into their own mental limitations and not know why.
When on the other hand i never really struggled in school and i was bored a lot. I didn't put in any extra effort and i learned to keep my head down to avoid trouble.

When i was younger i realized i was smarter than everyone in my grade and i also figured out that i should keep it to myself. The only reward for finishing my school work quickly was more, and most of the time, harder school work. Which in the end didn't get me any special privileges nor did i gain anything worthwhile from it.
Before my graduation i took a proper IQ test.
My mom found out and nearly killed me.
I hid the results but they called my house wanting to schedule a time for a follow up test and Mensa application.
I think she resented me on some level.