[Barron]

From the thread title,"Disappointing your family":
We have to realize the context of 'family' here which is that the family is a blue pill, deeply plugged into the matrix, social and emotional anchor for most guys here.
Such a thing exists as a major hurdle to be overcome, to "disappoint" these people is actually doing them a favor as well as improving your life.

Worry about yourself in the short term, but worry about them in the long term. Or don't worry at all and take solace in the fact that your happiness is what is at stake here and pursuing your happiness is what you were born to do.

It's a lonely path and it's supposed to be hard, harder than anything you've ever done. If it was easy everyone would do it. Misery loves company and most people, your family included, will exit the earth having never had the courage to deviate from the norm in order to figure out their happiness. They're just glad to resign themselves to a peaceful existence of denial whereby "everything worked out in the end".

I'm 9 months into permanently relocating to Kiev. It wasn't easy, but it's by far the best thing I've ever done for myself.

[debeguiled]

Having been both a son and an (step) parent, I know all too well the emotional kick to the gut that comes when a parent shows in an instant that they really don't understand you. We have all been there. It is easy to let an emotional moment become a stand-in for the relationship as a whole, and pop into your head every time you think of your dad.

Seems to me that you are experiencing one of the more unpleasant features of what is in essence, a normal rite of passage. Your father is a flawed human being, just like you and me, and he will not see eye to eye with you on every issue, and remember too, that in raising you, he is probably over correcting in reaction to things that he felt his dad did to him.

You might be too young to see your dad as a son himself, and then an uncertain young man, taking on responsibilities he didn't know he was up to at the time, but he is all those things at the same time that he is that large shadow looming over your life that he will always be, your father.

Maybe you can take a second to list in your mind the other areas in your life where you and your dad see eye to eye, and in fact other areas where you enjoy each other's company, and remember that at the same time you are feeling the sting of his disapproval, that all of these other aspects of your relationship are existing in real time, as well as in the past, and likely into the future, even as the part of the relationship that is bothering you is pressing its way to the fore of your heart and mind.

Remember too that this is a long game, and things change, and one day the things you do and believe now, and continue to follow, will one day be revealed to your dad not only as valid, but as better than the things he wanted for you. This is actually possible, even though at the moment it seems unlikely.

And even if you never receive verbal or overt credit for the wisdom of your views or actions, remember too that you will grow in strength and conviction, and there may come a time when you have such strength in your own convictions that you have no need of parental approval, and you can just love your parents as they are, flawed as they may be. This can take decades though.

It was not until I was the primary caretaker of my father in his final years that I was able to see him simply as a man, a former boy, former schoolmate, former newlywed.

Just a guy, like me.

He was starting to show serious signs of dementia, and so I had to take over many of his responsibilities. Now one of my bones of contention with my father you may find familiar. He never gave me any encouragement ever. His assessment of any situation in my life that I shared with him always seemed to take the same familiar theme:

The best possible course of action was always the opposite of the one I had decided on for myself.

This would explain why he could never train dogs either. He was great at scolding, never praised though. He even got kicked out of a dog obedience class because he just couldn't get the hang of approaching something smaller or weaker than himself with positive feelings .

So anyway, here I was dealing with his taxes or whatever because his mind was too scrambled to deal with them, and he STILL felt like he needed to go over what I had done before he let me mail it off. I finally told him that he would have to trust me, since letting him review my work would mean he would shuffle it all up scribble on it and I would nearly have to start from scratch.

He didn't like relinquishing this control, just barely allowed it in fact.

And I came to the realization that all those years of correcting and undermining of his had nothing to do with me, since even when he got it all wrong and made a mess and scribbled everything up, emotionally, he still felt the need to do it.

I don't know if I am being clear here.

It was something inside of him, and about him that made him do it, and because he was that looming shadow called DAD, I never figured that out. I always thought it was something about me.

He was just a guy. Imperfect, flawed, with his own compulsions and complexes and blind spots. It was the fact that he was my father that had blinded me to that obvious fact. And it only took me until I was in my late forties to figure it out!

So, yeah, it hurts, when you work hard and the people closest to you don't understand or appreciate it, and even with that, there are probably other aspects of your relationship that are pretty good, and maybe later you will be vindicated, or at least appreciated.

(Hey Dad? Hear me up there in heaven? Exactly which one of your children was willing to be your primary caretaker and protect you from Mom? What's that? That's right, it was me. The one you always said had his head in the clouds. Yeah, he was the one changing your diapers. Big ups to me. Heh).

You sound like you got a good plan. Don't let it be ruined by a situation so common it has its own meme:



Shine it on and carry on.

[XXL]

I know what you mean.

First you gotta know 100% what you want to do and have a gameplan before telling anybody about it. Once you're ready you sack up and go tell them. And if you're not ready to tell them you gotta pound yourself with it everyday into telling them until you get so sick of this that you can't look yourself in the mirror and you finally break and open up. You too just gotta get that poison out of your body.

You gotta have that real talk. You gotta look them in the fucking face and say "this is what I'm doing.. and the only reason I'm not is you gonna judge me so you gotta tell me that you won't". And if they tell you that they will judge you then at least you got it out. Then you go and fucking prove them wrong.

You know what usually happens then?

In reality that person, that parent, that spouse will respect you more for doing what you wanted to do as long as they can tell you fully believe in your choice. So it's like, you're worried about respect and you're losing it cause they can smell your fear, but then you go do it for real and they fucking respect you now.. So you get what you want by doing the actions that gonna free you up to do it.

[All or Nothing]

(05-26-2016 11:04 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 04:38 PM)Avon Barksdale Wrote:  

ATD does your family not understand how good you will have it as an officer in the military?

They got no clue but I don't think it's about lifestyle or money. It's all mental. Kaotic mentioned something about his mother's "bragging rights" which seems to be the case in my situation and something I noticed in other families as well.

My mom seems to be bothered with the fact that she might need to tell her friends who have Physicians & Lawyers as children that her son is "just" in the military.

You should let your mom know that being an officer in the military can actually be a legitimate pathway towards getting an elite engineering job.

Having military experience on your resume is a huge in for engineering firms like Honeywell, Raytheon, Orbital, and Boeing.

[Phoenix]

Sorry H1N1, but I'm going to have to weigh in as a counter balance from the other extreme.

Your "pinch of salt" remark is very sneaky condescension against the forum as a whole. As though nobody here could really mean what they are saying because it doesn't match what you think. Condescending also is the "special snowflake" remark.

It's worth remembering that the world doesn't revolve around ourselves. Just because your family has been great, doesn't mean everyone else has lived through the same family experience as you. It is very self-centered to talk as though your experience is the norm, and thus everyone else's criticism of family is unfounded, by ignoring the variety of what others have lived.

There isn't a single mother or father who hasn't "done their best". It is the equivalent of the fat man saying "I've tried everything".

Your deference to your family may be appropriate in your case, but it isn't in all cases. While your family may have been good people overall, and been a benefit to their children's development, that is not always the case. For some men, their parents have been a genuinely damaging force upon their development. Some parents are bad people. The best thing they can do is to break with their family and keep as much distance from them as possible.

In actuality, rebellion against your family can often be a form of self-defense. Many parents put their parenthood above the development of their children. Their pleasure of motherhood or fatherhood, and what they personally get from that, is more important to them than their child living a successful life. I have seen countless examples of it and experienced it myself. I have met people whose lives are dead, aborted efforts, because of the immoral actions and inactions of their parents, and heard multiple similar stories from others. Psychopath dominating fathers who are more concerned with control than their son/daughter actually reaching happiness. Selfish mothers who only care about their bragging rights and the "image" of their child, than the child's actual long-term happiness.

No child from a family like those should consider the wishes of the parents for another second, let alone consider making any sacrifices. Sometimes you just have to say "our interests are clearly not aligned, you've had your life and you won't have mine too, and if you wish us to continue having any relationship, you will cease and desist being any further psychological burden upon me whatsoever, including any language that could be considered critical, judgemental, or guilting".

(05-26-2016 03:33 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I think one has to take a lot of what gets said here on the forum with a pinch of salt. Your relationship with your family is one of the greatest and most important things in your life. Personally I think many people whose family have truly loved them and tried their best for them would do well to give serious consideration to their family's wishes, and even to make certain sacrifices to fulfill them.

A huge part of the rebellion against the family's wishes seems to me to be a product of what you might call 'special snowflake syndrome', which assumes that every man's life has some great purpose, and that there is one way of life which will bring meaning beyond all others, and that if a man is not searching for this then he is wasting his life. But I think that the reality, even for very bright people, is that there are myriad different ways to apply a good brain to work of various kinds that will produce tremendous satisfaction and real interest over time.

[BlackFriar]

PM Quote

(05-26-2016 05:51 PM)EDantes [2]

If fairness, not to speak of all families, but some families are selfish and essentially feel that their child is "in debt" to them to be who they want them to be simply because they gave them life. Which isn't totally fair, since children have no control over who their parents are, and just because "mommy/daddy wants it" doesn't always mean it's in the best interest of the child.
---------------------------!!!'!"_^££(¥₩₩₩¥
Blackfriar:


I had controlling parents. I was the oldest of three and my dad always hit me and told me I was not good enough. I accepted this mostly, till I got out of high school.

Fast forward a few years later: him and mom finally divorced. He still tries to talk to me the same way. We worked at the same place. I have my own place, do my own thing. Never arrested. My younger brother and sister party, did drugs, fucked up shit. Brother was getting arrested all of the time, got his ass beat by the cops. He drives an older Honda fart can muffler car. The hood is tied shut with rope.

Finally, I cut ties with all of them.

Dad retired. He had a kid with a fat, younger woman (on welfare) when he was 55 years old. (And still legally married to my mom.) The story gets better....but fuck it.

Moral of the story: be your own man and do what you have to do. Every one's situation is different. But we all end up in the same place, at the end. The grave.

What you do between now and then is on you. If I fail or succeed, it will be on my terms. Not any one else's.

Live life the best way you can and do not look back.

[Surreyman]

Whilst I agree with H1N1 in regards to my own family, I agree with raptor that exceptions have to be made for unreasonable or ignorant parents.

[debeguiled]

(05-28-2016 03:25 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

It's worth remembering that the world doesn't revolve around ourselves. Just because your family has been great, doesn't mean everyone else has lived through the same family experience as you. It is very self-centered to talk as though your experience is the norm, and thus everyone else's criticism of family is unfounded, by ignoring the variety of what others have lived.

In general, and this is no knock on them, it is very hard for people with good families to have sympathy for people who don't. A solid foundation in life profoundly shapes who you are, and gives you strength and resiliency that other people would kill for.

Because it is all you have known, it is hard to see that the complaints of others are not just personal whinings, but a response to an absence in their lives that you have not had.

It is kind of like a couple of white people sitting around debating racism, and talking over any black dude who tries to get a word in.

A fish who has always swam in the water happily has trouble really understanding the deep effect on the certainties of existence that come from getting caught by a fisherman, left gasping on the deck for a few minutes, and then tossed back in the lake.

[puckerman]

I did what I was supposed to do for a long time. Around my senior year in high school, I realized that I had completely neglected my own happiness and had no idea what I really loved. I made the decision that I wouldn't go to college, even though I honestly could have went to college anywhere.

While it's important to do what makes you happy, it's also important that you aren't just making a decision out of rebellion. Sometimes I think I did this when I didn't go to college. It's always important to find the emotions behind any desire. You have to wonder why you really want something or really don't want it. It's tough sometimes, and it just takes lots and lots of practice.

Good luck in everything you do. In the end, don't worry about satisfying or disappointing your family. We're all in this alone.

[Hades]

I read your thread and have had similar problems. That sounds like a tough situation that can cause a deep rift in a family relationship.

Still keep in mind it is a hangup of theirs, not yours.

Fixing the relationship seems important to you so I'll go in some detail here.

The root psychology here is that for some fucked up reason your parents think that you not being X and doing Y somehow reflects poorly on them. Maybe they invested a lot in your upbringing. My parents are the exact same way. They are a little bit narcissistic but the apple did not fall far from the tree. What they need is perspective, a bit of distance, and a little persuasion.

One useful piece of information here is how often you keep contact with your parents. Do you visit for days at a stretch? Sometimes being too close to them breeds contempt. For instance after college I lived at home for nearly a whole year working a shitty job and generally being kind of a fuckup and not knowing what to do for my future and my parents were fucking intolerable, and had been since I was a kid. My relationship with them now is just peachy and I'll tell you why.

So depending on how often you contact them now, ghost on them for a month or two or even as long as a year, and keep in touch with your OTHER relatives. If you have a relationship with somebody who your parents respect this kind of thing works even better.

You have to call in a couple of favors. Tell your other relatives (or respected family friend(s)) that you feel your parents don't love and respect you as a man and you want their help improving your relationship so they see you as an adult and not a little kid. Tell them you're bothered about this and no amount of convincing from you has changed their opinion, so maybe they will listen to somebody else whose judgement they value.

Make sure to tell THEM to speak well about YOU to your parents.

I would suggest asking them to compliment you as a person about your manly virtues and sense of honor and completely ignore the career thing, since a job is a job and is irrelevant. If your relative/family friend has kids tell them to compliment their parenting skills.

If you have female relatives I highly recommend telling them. Women are chatterboxes and better at gossip than men.A woman tells another woman (for instance, your mother and female cousin) something, that's powerfully persuasive.

Make it clear you have a vision for your own life and you want your parents to see it your way, they're just too stubborn right now and you don't see a future for a healthy relationship unless they accept your life decisions.

It might take a while but once your parents realize that other people's perception of you is good, and it indirectly reflects well on them, and other people don't secretly judge them negatively based on your life path, the gears are set in motion for them to change their preconceptions and actually be proud of their kid.

I'm not saying it's 100% going to work but at the least, putting some distance between you and your parents is going to improve your sanity greatly, and distance will improve your relationship too.

A little mental sobriety is warranted, maybe they'll always "know what's best for you" but this issue you have looks to me like your parents just need a little perspective shift, not a big one. This could even be a problem that fixes itself over time. You're young yet.

It's possible that you have somebody in your family could be saying unpleasant things to your parents about you. That's not something I would rule out. Chickenshits gossip behind people's backs all the time.

[Genghis Khan]

I think I've been pretty fortunate with my parents. I was lucky enough to be interested in a "useful" degree and my parents have been supportive of my career plans and even travel plans.

The only thing I have disappointed my family with is going liberal, drinking a lot in college, women etc. They don't know everything. But my entire family is hardcore conservative, not a single person in my entire extended family has ever had a divorce and from what I know everyone has a notch count of 1. When I was younger I didn't understand the power of having a strong family, a healthy community and having something more important than yourself (I.e. taking care of the family). It reminds me of Roosh's recent revelations on how his decade of debauchery was really a way to fill the emptiness of not having a higher purpose in life.

My parents, god bless them, profoundly understand this despite not being "educated" at some elite school. Honestly the older I get the more I understand just how right my parents are on a lot of things. Although I enjoyed college, I deeply despise all the bullshit I've been fed - returning to conservative and RP beliefs took me a long time.

Of course I got very lucky with my parents and I understand not everyone is that fortunate.

[GlobalMan]

Any update Anabasis? How are things going as you get nearer to shipping out?

I think you're making a fine decision, there are few higher callings than serving your country, and I'm sure you'll find every success you're after.

[CleanSlate]

Well, this is going to be a rant along with a bit of dirty laundry.

I think I've further disappointed my family with my red pill views. Well, just my sister.

It was about the Turner rape case. We were chatting on whatsapp, and I made an innocuous comment about not believing everything you hear on the news. Apparently it wasn't so innocuous to her, because she pressed me on what I meant by that, and against my better judgement, I used the Turner case as an example.

It devolved into an hour-long spat. My anger about the MSM and false rape accusations just frothed over and I was triggering her with every other statement I was making. I've never seen my sister so triggered. We were all over the place, fighting over transgenders, rape culture, marriage, divorce, feminism -- everything. She was starting to use ad hominem attacks and accusing me of "hating" gays and women. I accused her back of hyperbole and histronics. Triggered her even more. Back and forth, on and on.

When we ran out of steam and got tired of arguing, she asked what happened to me, that I used to be a liberal and now apparently I've done a 180. I said, "I guess people change."

And that was that.

We haven't talked since. And I don't think we are going to be on talking terms for a while. It'll be easy for you guys to say "just forget about it and move on", but I'm not the kind of person who walks away from his own family that easily. That said, this episode further discourages me from the possibility of raising a family here. Even if I lived next door to my extended family, my kids and wife would be exposed to feminist toxicity on a daily basis and there's no way I would be able to stop it. The more I think on this, the more likely it will be that I will not be coming back. Ever. The only way I would come back is if I run out of money overseas and have to get a new job. Not to raise a family.

Back to my sister, I'm a little upset that it came to this. She threw me a party last week, and yesterday we had a fight. I wish I didn't say anything, but then again, I didn't know that what I said would have triggered her.

But I mean, she blows a gasket at the smallest offhand comments that don't fit within her feminist and liberal views. Given that I've changed since my divorce, it's natural that some things are going to come out, and I'm not going to apologize for what I said and what my views are.

Plus, why should I censor myself when we're fighting for the exact same right to speak out? Why can't I talk about anything with my family without parsing my own words as to not offend them? This is the world we are in right now. At this rate, half of the English language will be considered hate speech for which criminal charges can be levied. Fuck this shit.

Free Speech sure ain't free.

/rant

[debeguiled]

^
^
Whenever I begin to doubt social engineering, I think of things like this. Look at how quickly someone you know and care about turns against you, and vomits out every bogus talking point known to man. It is some Manchurian candidate shit, except instead of a mind controlled assassin, people today have become mind controlled relationship terrorists, ready to blow up their relationships when the code word is uttered.

Madness.

I bet she even slipped in to that rage quasi-trance, lost her personality, forgot even who you are, and defended the talking points she was programmed to defend. This shit is scary. See it all the time. It is like a switch is flipped.

[kaotic]

CleanSlate - same shit happened to me.

I was really tight with a female cousin of mine, she told me things my entire family didn't know.

I knew she was liberal leaning until I found out more (I believe she told me she was molested by a family friend/member when she was younger).

We had a falling out about mattress girl, I posted mattress girl's quotes (the ones after she filed rape charges) after my cousin posted an "you go girl" article about her. She deleted them, then I absolutely crushed one of her friends on FB about it. Some faggot mangina looking dude.

After that I deleted her and blocked her on FB. She has two other sisters on the same feminist path.

As you all know Mattress Girl made a "rape" porn after that, I could only imagie the stupid look my cousin would of had on her face.

We haven't talked really since, she might like a instagram photo of mine but I never talk to her.

[Rigsby]

Oh, you'll be ok ATD. Your parents sound like 'good peoples'. It's just a little tiff you'll all laugh about later. It's character building for them and for you both. Really, don't sweat it. You should try dealing with my family for five minutes - your mind would be made up pretty quickly.

One thing I've noticed as I've gone through life, trying to work out where it all went wrong for me, being a highly intelligent (not that clever ok, but above average), deeply sensitive (always taking other's feelings into consideration, sometimes before my own), highly-motivated (lots of ambition in me, still is), original thinker, etc. type of person, is this: the most successful people in life come from good families, to a very large degree.

My good looks, my genuine charm, my innate sense of fair play, my willingness to help others altruistically etc. etc. etc. all counted for nothing. On paper, you would think I would have made something of my self by now. But no. I've led a life not lived. I am an absolute, total and utter failure, by anyone's standards. These qualities don't mean anything in the real world. Better to be the fox.

So, where did I go wrong?

First priniciples. Family.

I was brought up from an early age by a father that crushed me. He didn't take the time to toughen me up or build my character. He decided to break me. He never liked me, not as a young child, certainly not as a teenager, and most definitely not as an adult.

I never gave up on him. I held on to the hope that one day I might be able to do something to prove my worth in his eyes. It was false hope. False hope takes longer than cancer to kill you. It has blighted my whole life. I have sought approval from other men as substitute father figures, whilst having no real core sense of identity myself. Of course, this made these 'men' disrespect me immensely. I understand why.

I tried a reconciliation with my father one last time, in the hope it might aid my brother through his last days in life. My brother loves me very deeply, and (however misguided) he loves his father very deeply too. It upsets him that we haven't talked in years. So, I swallowed my pride and against my better judgement, I phoned him. I was pleasant, genuinely curious in fact to see how he was getting on after all these years. My intent was impeccable.

What did I get for my efforts? Well, let's just say, it reminded me of being a young child again, pinned to the chair/sofa, while my father (often drunk) rants at me exactly why I am a no-good son-of-a-bitch, why I always was one, and why I always will be one. I held the phone at a distance of some inches from my head and gave him his head, letting him rant. A wry smile came over my face. I knew what this was.

He could not help himself. It was the same old talk. But more. "See, I told you back when you were a child that you were a no-good son-of-a-bitch, and look at you now, you no-good son-of-a-bitch. You are a loser. You always were and you always will be. See, I was right." Kind of thing.

He got so carried away, he didn't even realise he was talking to himself. He didn't raise his voice or swear. He was calm and measured. He had been waiting for this day and he was not going to let it go to waste. He was just getting warmed up in fact. Oh how I remember my childhood days, waiting for him to stop, praying for him to stop, to run out of steam. I learned 'learned helplessness'. Do nothing, do not react, don't move, don't do anything that might be seen as impertinence.

This is the same father that saw me go homeless on the street (in the middle of me getting a first class honours degree), dangling the promise of a couple of thousands of pounds over my head (which he gave to my brother), but he decided that 'my head was not together' so he would not give me the money. I had to go on the street, after running out of friend's sofas to sleep on. I still forgave him for this. All my studying of Buddhism and Stoicism and whatnot have put me in good stead.

I was brought up by women, in an effectively single parent household. My father was always 'At Sea', and when he came home on leave, every night was spent in the local pub, with his 'mates'. I never had a father figure, ever. Hence my craving for male attention and respect. At whatever subliminal level.

I was never physically or sexually abused. I don't even think I was abused at all in fact. But no shadow of a doubt it was neglect. A failure to nurture is as bad as abuse (almost) in my case. I never had books to read, no crayons or pencils or paper to draw with. I was always asking for books, for drawing materials. When I did get them I devoured them. I started to draw and create abstract art as a passion from an early age, but when the paper ran out after a few weeks, that was that. I just gave up.

I had a massive hunger for knowledge. Still do. I was always top of my class, despite being held back like this. But it caused me developmental problems that have plagued me my whole life.

And my mother has to take a certain amount of responsibility as well. I was not allowed to play with other children, not allowed to leave the house very often. I was effectively imprisoned. I still remember those days, pacing the house as a young child, knowing something was wrong, but not knowing what. Banging my head against the door. Ripping flesh out from my face to cause pain. To take away the pain.

I also have come to terms with this and understand why this came to be. My grandmother lost two children at a very early age under traumatic circumstances. My mother was an accident, but a happy one. She was molly-coddled and spoiled too. I had no chance.

The fact that I have come as far as I have and overcome all this, is testament to the human spirit and the ability for the human psyche to self-heal itself, should the desire be there in the first place. The big mistake I have made is to be so wounded by my family. I should have let them go from an early age, now it is too late. My life has not been lived, and those years will be forever lost.

I had it all. I really did. And I take full responsibility for this. I was weak. I had no direction.

My mother let me know not so long back what a massive disappointment I was to her as a human being. She wasn't just upset over this. It was almost violent, her total disgust at me. And the more disgusted she got, the weaker I became, and the more I begged for love. As with all passive-aggressive individuals, you will be attacked the very moment you show weakness. Now it was her turn to have some fun with me. She withdrew her love, her emotions, everything, the sicker I got. And the more she withdrew, the sicker I got...

Yet, even though she has caused me real damage, I forgive her. I understand. I support her in her difficult time of nursing my dying brother, because, to be frank, he is an absolute fucking pig to be around.

The suffering has come to her now.

And now all these hard years have come home to roost for me as well. I am ill. And I'm not really able to help very much. I am too sick to travel the few miles to see my family. My brother, even though he is dying, is in a much healthier state than I am. I find out soon if this thing will kill me quickly or kill me slowly. It may even be that I am just imagining it. Years of chronic illness are finally coming to fruition. I will not suffer. I have plans...

I wanted to be strong to help others, not dominate them. But others like to keep you down, just in case. It is the opposite of the Zulu principle of Ubuntu, which roughly equates to: The strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

And so we come full circle (without wishing to drone on any longer) and come back to the 'pack' or rather, the 'family'. Those families that recognise the principle of Ubuntu, strengthen their children, trusting in them to be an addition to the family. Dysfunctional families such as mine, purposely (though sub-consciously) weaken their children, so they become dependent, and can't run away.

So, you think you got problems ATD!

Your family seem like very nice people from what you have said of them. There also seems to be a bit of culture clash going on with you all moving about and being displaced and having to deal with very diametrically opposed cultures. I forget now exactly where you came from and all the details. But I have taken an interest in your postings, and have followed your 'story' with genuine fascination. It doesn't seem to be the typical 'arc' one has through life.

And your story is not over yet. It is just beginning.

This whole family thing is a genuine paradox. And there is a lot to be said for H1N1's post, offering an alternative viewpoint - I see that along the lines of familial piety (as preached by Confucius). But the question is, when to have familial piety and when to just cut your fucking losses like I should have done a long time ago. I've gained nothing and lost all - my life.

Your truth may lie somewhere in the middle - only you can make these judgement calls. But really, I would give anything to have been brought up by such wonderful parents as you had.

And as if someone like me could ever give advice to someone like you, I would just say: Carry on doing what you are doing. This is life. This is what it is about. You are living it right now, and this is what it means!

Hopefully, some of that made sense. I've had a bad headache for the last 12 hours, and it's not going away today. Typing these words, alleviated it for a bit.

Really ATD, you are in the prime of your life. Seize it with both hands.

Meet your family half-way. I'm sure they will do the same with you (as witnessed in the 'regardless' comment).

If you can keep your head when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too

[Rigsby]

(06-10-2016 04:03 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

^
^
Whenever I begin to doubt social engineering, I think of things like this. Look at how quickly someone you know and care about turns against you, and vomits out every bogus talking point known to man. It is some Manchurian candidate shit, except instead of a mind controlled assassin, people today have become mind controlled relationship terrorists, ready to blow up their relationships when the code word is uttered.

I was reading about some research someone had been doing into advertising. The guy was responding to the fact that people say they don't buy into any of it and it's all a waste of time. He then pointed out how advertisers and pr companies spend millions of dollars to change the perception of a word, or to eradicate a word from language. And it does work. That is the thing. That's a fact.

You could get the word 'thing' taken out of human circulation in 10 years if you had the cash. You could get the word 'rape' to mean all that is good and wholesome in this life, if you had the cash.

This stuff is so subtle, so insidious, that even those of us being brainwashed are unaware of it. That is why it works.

Homosexuality was against the law and socially frowned upon at the beginning of the last century up until the mid when things started to change via think-tanks and the illuminati saying 'make it so'.

Now, even though most people disagree with it, no one dare voice an opinion. Even when it was illegal and frowned upon, a lot of people thought it shouldn't be illegal and shouldn't be frowned upon and live and let live. But you NEVER heard those opinions, because the debate was polarised.

I have to deal with an absolute hardcore Trotskyist Leftist Communist in my family. I've tried to meet them half way, but they are not interested in the dialectic (logical back and forth argument, based on facts), only rhetoric (ranting, sticking your fingers in your ears).

I think sometimes the hardest thing about taking the 'pill' is that it so alienates those of us that do, with family members, friends, etc.

[debeguiled]

Yeah. Thanks for sharing about your family, Rigsby. That is familiar territory, and I feel you.

About the alienation, it is more than that. It truly does feel like they switch into a completely different personality. Something sets them off and they cycle into the unrighteous-indignation-trance or something, like there is a script to it, and you are an actor in their script, and there is no word or argument you can come up with that can change it. They have already cast your part.

[Switch]

deleted

[Anabasis to Desta]

Thanks for the honest account Rigsby.

I really don't know what to say to that ... very touching. +1

[Sonoma]

My family was too poor to set expectations haha

[Rigsby]

(06-10-2016 05:56 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Yeah. Thanks for sharing about your family, Rigsby. That is familiar territory, and I feel you.

About the alienation, it is more than that. It truly does feel like they switch into a completely different personality. Something sets them off and they cycle into the unrighteous-indignation-trance or something, like there is a script to it, and you are an actor in their script, and there is no word or argument you can come up with that can change it. They have already cast your part.

You know, I never looked at it like that. But you put it very well. Always another way to look at it I suppose.

I've cut ties with my father now for good, for life. I'm ok with that. I'll be civil and decent as I need to be, no need for hair and teeth on the floor now at this late point. Damage done. Lesson learned. Time to crack on.

But yeah, sometimes, when we learn hard lessons in life, we change, at our core level, but family will always see you for what you were, not what you have become. And you look at them, and you see that they haven't grown. This is what being married and in a deep relationship can do to you. It's sad in a way.

I will stand by my mum and bruv though, till the end. It's not their fault they are too blind to see. So i forgive them. They know not what they do.

That is all I was trying to say with my rather long-winded post really.

[Rigsby]

(06-11-2016 05:20 PM)Sonoma Wrote:  

My family was too poor to set expectations haha

My family was too poor to realise how rich it was.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

(06-11-2016 07:08 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  

(06-10-2016 05:56 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Yeah. Thanks for sharing about your family, Rigsby. That is familiar territory, and I feel you.

About the alienation, it is more than that. It truly does feel like they switch into a completely different personality. Something sets them off and they cycle into the unrighteous-indignation-trance or something, like there is a script to it, and you are an actor in their script, and there is no word or argument you can come up with that can change it. They have already cast your part.

You know, I never looked at it like that. But you put it very well. Always another way to look at it I suppose.

I've cut ties with my father now for good, for life. I'm ok with that. I'll be civil and decent as I need to be, no need for hair and teeth on the floor now at this late point. Damage done. Lesson learned. Time to crack on.

But yeah, sometimes, when we learn hard lessons in life, we change, at our core level, but family will always see you for what you were, not what you have become. And you look at them, and you see that they haven't grown. This is what being married and in a deep relationship can do to you. It's sad in a way.

I will stand by my mum and bruv though, till the end. It's not their fault they are too blind to see. So i forgive them. They know not what they do.

That is all I was trying to say with my rather long-winded post really.

Your situation reminds me of Jim Morrison and Johnny Cash. In both cases, their fathers never accepted them as successful. Morrison's case was worse, because his father was a naval officer, and a hippie rock star in the late 60s could never be respectable to a guy like that.

I'll bet the distance between you and your father is less than Morrison's.

Do your thing, but remain open to reconciliation with your father. Game him, and win him over like anyone else you have to convince on the path to success. Afterwards, you can decide if it's worth it.