[Saweeep]

(05-28-2016 02:23 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Even with the fast-spreading rot and corruption within it, the US military is still the most incredible fighting force on this planet. There is no adversary that it couldn't overcome.

I'm fairly confident that the US could fight every other country on Earth in a conventional war at once, and win.

An amazing thing, really. The rest of the World should be thankful for this fact. Others would not be so restrained in the use of absolute power.

[AdventurousHippo]

(05-27-2016 08:13 PM)kamoz Wrote:  

Although it's true that genghis Kahn only had ponies bows and arrows keep in mind that the reason for his success was not lack of sympathy or law but unique application of a present technology (horse archers) relative to others (conventional slow heavily armored horsemen) and maybe even some new technology - can't remember if it was the Mongols that had the thumb ring or someone else.

I think what OP is getting at is where does our military really stand relative to other nations like China and Russia. For instance, is the carrier battle group truly extinct? Do China and Russia really have those bad ass hyper sonic crazy maneuverable missiles that would ice our CVBGs? Is our military really all it's cracked up to be? I think with over budget and under performing assets like the F22 and F35 this may indeed be the case which could put the US in a corner in a conventional war and increase the temptation to use nuclear weapons.

The F-22 is not under performing. It is by far the most capable air superiority fighter the world has ever seen, and I'll guess that it will be for the next 30 years. Unless of course US 6th generation fighters come out before then. The F-35 will be just as good as the F-111 and F-16 were in their time once they got over the initial developmental problems.

[cubanlinx]

I think Tiger Mandingo was exercising some deliberate sarcasm. His last sentence seemed to imply that the US and Israel had the two most powerful armies, which is a positive response to the US army's might.
At least, that's how I comprehended it. I could be wrong.

[Parzival]

How many countries are able to send troops within 24 hours all over the world? Or maybe stand in more then one war / conflict? The technological ability of the US Military is amazing.
The politics behind are less amazing. Japan and Germany, two countries that are high developed need about 70 years of occupation. To think you can bring freedom and democracy (or the Elite Propaganda) to a bunch of desert people that pray to a strange god and stone their own daughters in just a decade is joke.
The USA don't lack the military power, the lack the long point of view political by their political leaders. Even more, most military interventions are there for economical interest. Not to liberate people. It give you a harder stand when the local people know, you are in their place not because they are wrong - no because your companies want something.

[The Black Knight]

(05-27-2016 08:14 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

Right now I'm positive the US military is a shit show. It's PC central and all the good troops are getting the fuck out. So if we had to go to war tomorrow, we would probably not do so hot. We're also running out of munitions, I believe.

But, if we did go to war (say, because someone attacked us) and took a lot of casualties, America would get fired up. People would be calling for the heads of the morons who ruined the military and things would turn around fast. 12-18 months later, the military would be back to kicking ass and taking names. I guarantee there would be crowds of veterans lining up to rejoin and go fight. We have a huge reserve of relatively young combat veterans right now who could be in kit and fighting in a matter of weeks if the nation really needed them.

The US military has only "lost" wars because the politicians in charge are gutless, visionless faggots who are unwilling to either simply smash the country and leave without trying to nation build, or smash the country and then commit to nation building properly. You can trace the politicians' wishy washiness straight back to Korea when we failed to use nukes. That failure set the tone for every war since.

All the vets here have covered what I would say for the most part already. Basically: the US Military can destroy everyone but politics/PC-ness prevents that.

I do want to say that one of the biggest reasons why I got out was because of how PC the military was becoming and not only did that increase the likelihood of getting me killed, it also made the work environment insufferable. As a result, I noticed that pretty much the vast majority of people I respected for their competency and personality headed for the exits as soon as they could. Who was leftover?

1. White-knight boy scouts - Lots of officers are like this.

2. Wanna-be man-hating feminist "warriors" -Lots of female NCOs who hate men because some Marine gave them the Herp when they were being a desert queen or slutting it up on base.

3. Losers with 4 kids with the base/town slut(s) - My first week in the real military, the NCO that I was tasked to work under straight up told me: "I hate my life, my job, and I'm only in this for my kids." (He was a shitbag and eventually got kicked out I think for some really shady/illegal shit later on).

4. Idiots, bullies, wanna-be tough guys - Arrogant fuckers who play too much Call to Duty and watch too much MMA shit on Spike and pretend to be hard 24/7 but fall apart in real world situations.

5. The dipshits who are follow letter of the regulations vs the spirit of the regulations - Every vet knows who I'm talking about. THAT person who cites every goddamn reg and makes a 10 minute thing into a 2 hour thing due some extreme sense of duty (or autism) to follow every tiny rule down to the T. They are also don't hesitate to up-channel the slightest infraction all the way up the chain of command instead of handling things at the lowest level.

The aforementioned aren't people I want to work with, depend my life on, and possibly die for in a combat situation. This is what much of the military population comprised of during the 2000's from my experience. Now, you got women in combat, trannies, open faggots, and every man is a rapist propaganda going on now. Insane.

The military is suppose to be THE domain of masculine men doing warrior shit/killing people/blowing things up/working hard, playing hard/fucking exotic birches yet it feels like you're in some libtard DC non-profit organization led by feminist twats and white-knight male traitors. The culture of the current military and it's actual primary mission are not remotely in alignment.

For instance, the NFL hires the biggest ass dudes to play ball and no one screams for diversity in that environment but the military, whose job is is to win wars/kill people/fight against some of the most violent savage assholes on the planet, has women in combat positions now due to feel-good libtard politics. Just boggles your fucking mind thinking about it; the sheer stupidity one must possess to put a woman in a combat situation voluntarily.

It's unfortunate that there is that that 5-10% of the military population that really makes you want to stay in and provides a taste of what the military COULD be like but they are a dying breed in the current environment. I could see a President Trump turning the cultural tide a bit but it would take World War 3 to quickly clean out all the ranks (1-2 years) of all the garbage. In a peace/semi-peace time, probably a decade plus minimum.

I suppose I'm borderline ranting about all of this because I really wanted to like and even stay in the military but the overwhelming PC-ness of the culture in the modern military was simply too much to tolerate and I saw no realistic path of it improving substantially any time in the near future. I envy those guys who served under Reagan in the largely non-PC 1980's; it must have been a hell of a fun ride to be in the military during that era when it was still a Man's World.

[Leonard D Neubache]

The US military is armed to the teeth in the same way that that a fellow might be if he applied for fifteen credit cards and maxxed them out buying everything the gun local gun store had in stock.

The question now is whether he's going to start shooting at the repo man.

[Chaos Preacher]

(05-28-2016 06:35 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 02:23 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Even with the fast-spreading rot and corruption within it, the US military is still the most incredible fighting force on this planet. There is no adversary that it couldn't overcome.

I'm fairly confident that the US could fight every other country on Earth in a conventional war at once, and win.

An amazing thing, really. The rest of the World should be thankful for this fact. Others would not be so restrained in the use of absolute power.

Perhaps so. I don't know. But just how useful is such an ability? Nation on nation warfare is utterly obsolete in this day and age.

[El Chinito loco]

I think elite special operations should be expanded as well as non human deployment based strike capabilities ie..more drones, robot technology, mobile fleets etc.. but mass conventional warfare capabilities become less and less relevant as time moves on.

The U.S. has a massive sledgehammer of a military but nothing in the world requires that tool.

If large nations go into direct conflict with each other and it escalates into a serious conflict it won't be resolved with conventional armies anyways.

It'll be ICBMs tipped with MIRVS, biological warfare, nerve agents, and mabe even neutron bomb technology flying overhead and everyone will be eating out of rusty tins, shooting each other, and driving around in v8 interceptors 50 years afterwards.

[Saweeep]

(05-28-2016 11:01 AM)Chaos Preacher Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 06:35 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 02:23 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Even with the fast-spreading rot and corruption within it, the US military is still the most incredible fighting force on this planet. There is no adversary that it couldn't overcome.

I'm fairly confident that the US could fight every other country on Earth in a conventional war at once, and win.

An amazing thing, really. The rest of the World should be thankful for this fact. Others would not be so restrained in the use of absolute power.

Perhaps so. I don't know. But just how useful is such an ability? Nation on nation warfare is utterly obsolete in this day and age.

Why do you think this is?

[Peregrine]

(05-28-2016 06:35 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 02:23 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Even with the fast-spreading rot and corruption within it, the US military is still the most incredible fighting force on this planet. There is no adversary that it couldn't overcome.

I'm fairly confident that the US could fight every other country on Earth in a conventional war at once, and win.

An amazing thing, really. The rest of the World should be thankful for this fact. Others would not be so restrained in the use of absolute power.

I think America could defend itself against all conventional armies, but I do not think America could simultaneously subjugate all other countries. Even conquering China or Russia one on one would not be a sure thing.

[Cobra]

Veterans like me do not put much weight on what non veterans think about how great the military is. We love you guys but you will never be able to separate the political machinations of the military from the practical effectiveness of its power and its necessity in today's world. You also most likely will never understand the comraderie and commitment to your fellow man like we do. This is especially true if you were born in a western country and also have not seen much hardship (that's most people in the west).

Let's just say I grew up in a town and a time that did not take too kindly to the only brown kid around. At that time, I thought people would never see me as good enough. This was every single day. Sleep was the only time I got away from it. Once I joined the US Navy, layer by layer, these feelings and thoughts turned into pride for what I'm a part of. True diversity and multiculturalism is what I experienced. Not the bullshit context that some guys here use these terms for. That's because it was everyone was trying to do a better job for the unit, their command and ultimately their country. In the process, they were being a better American without regressing into their own backgrounds or cultures too much. Sadly, when I got out, I realized how divided and contrasting to this atmosphere the civilian world was.

I've been out for over 10 years now. There are days or times that I certainly feel like a guest in a country I served. However, that does not take away from the pride I have for serving and what this country truly stands for. It will never go away. I never had much, neither did my parents. The military helped me with my confidence and paying for my education which allowed me to work in one of the largest Audit/Consulting firms in the world and be very successful.

So speaking to the question of the thread, firstly, I think the thread title immediately diminishes the high amount of value that the military adds to the security of this country. I'm sure it may even be click baitish to other active members and veterans here.

To answer the OP question, yes the military is great in the US. Without it, you would not even be able to make that post. So, I hope everyone here that lives in the US, and even the rest of the world is thankful to every single member that served, serves or will serve.

Happy memorial day! US Navy veteran here and proud Indian immigrant.

[Kona]

Look at this thing:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look...1464359194

Aloha!

[The Lizard of Oz]

(05-28-2016 05:37 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Look at this thing:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look...1464359194

Aloha!

Aloha is right, as in hello and goodbye to anything that stands in the way of this weapon.

Reading stories like this (everyone should watch the video as well) makes me wonder whether the current stale peace is going to last for quite a long time, because the Chinese will never be able to delude themselves even for a moment that they have a snowflake's chance in hell if they fuck with us in any way.

[Easy_C]

Quite frankly, I'm going to chime in and say that I think the whole "The US Military is the greatest in the world" is a complete line of bullshit sold to you by neocons. It's great for whipping people up into a frenzy to support stupid invasions.

The reality is that in it's current state the military is almost completely inept at fighting. This isn't because of the individual soldiers. Many of them are extremely competent, motivated, and fit.


From an organizational standpoint it's a complete mess. You have officers who are completely unable to function mentally in any context other than a power point slide, a Sergeant Major's Corps populated by corrupt bullies(related to the prevalence of Masonry in the ranks), and extremely slow organizational processes. The unit I served in was completely incapable of managing it's operations without a massive, four tent command center that took an entire day to move. Nevermind that in a real world engagement you are going to be forced to operate out of your tracks....they were not the least bit interested in training that way. In a real world scenario an enemy can cover a huge amount of ground in a matter of hours.

I also saw, firsthand, one instance where it took TWO MONTHS to get approval to shell a known taliban stronghold with no civilians nearby, a battalion commander who wanted to reinvigorate a district with a "motorcycle repair initiative" that would involve getting the local mechanic to train his competition(it flopped, who woulda guessed....) and far too many other things to list.

Morever in my own trainings I have a 100% win ratio when doing exercises against American officers. They always, 100% of the time, do exactly that the training dictates or follow the FM battle drill to the letter. As a result it's extremely easy to bait them into any trap you set.



As of right now the Army LOST to a group of illiterate 18th century Tribesmen who'se favorite past time is fucking their 10 year old cousin's up the butthole. Several notable exceptions aside (82nd, Special Forces, etc) they are COMPLETELY incapable of dealing with any opponent who has the ability to disrupt their own glacial planning and movement processes. Were the US to go to war with Russia or China I can say with complete confidence that the first round of engagements would be a complete rout for US forces.



There's two internal reasons for this and they're all leadership related. First is that the training is weak. As a result a lot of the "white knight" leaders and the ones who are joining the Army because they're bullied kids who want authoritah don't get weeded out during training. Second, the promotion system consists entirely of subjective evaluations by your immediate supervisor. This means that you can't ever risk pissing off a single superior and the career oriented officers know it. Now the upper echelons of the military are dominated not by warriors, but by slimy, risk adverse bureacrats who were the best at office politics.


This shows in the military's results: Ever since they introduced PC softening and the current promotion system around the time of the Vietnam war, the military has failed to win a single conflict with the possible exception of a bombing campaign that they aborted before the actual invasion(Desert Storm).

[Chaos Preacher]

(05-28-2016 11:20 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

I think elite special operations should be expanded as well as non human deployment based strike capabilities ie..more drones, robot technology, mobile fleets etc.. but mass conventional warfare capabilities become less and less relevant as time moves on.

The U.S. has a massive sledgehammer of a military but nothing in the world requires that tool.

If large nations go into direct conflict with each other and it escalates into a serious conflict it won't be resolved with conventional armies anyways.

It'll be ICBMs tipped with MIRVS, biological warfare, nerve agents, and mabe even neutron bomb technology flying overhead and everyone will be eating out of rusty tins, shooting each other, and driving around in v8 interceptors 50 years afterwards.

I agree. The U.S. military has failed to adapt to current global conditions. It builds its military as if it's waiting for Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Soviet Russia to rise from the past and attack us.... it isn't tailored for fighting our actual enemies- terrorist NGO's. It's completely disgraceful for the U.S. to spend over a decade fighting ragtag, poorly trained, poorly equipped goat herders and insurgents.

[Kona]

(05-28-2016 07:14 PM)Chaos Preacher Wrote:  

I agree. The U.S. military has failed to adapt to current global conditions. It builds its military as if it's waiting for Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Soviet Russia to rise from the past and attack us.... it isn't tailored for fighting our actual enemies- terrorist NGO's. It's completely disgraceful for the U.S. to spend over a decade fighting ragtag, poorly trained, poorly equipped goat herders and insurgents.

Do you have any footnotes or links you care to share, or are these facts coming from your brain???

Aloha!

[LeeEnfield303]

I laugh when I read people say, "America is pozzed , but thank God we still have the military."

The US armed forces are the WORST about being pozzed. Its. not. even. close. I live it every goddamned day....every SHARP class I'm 'forced' to attend, to the new SecArmy, to.....well you get the picture.

If it applies to you, don't expect DoD to bail us out of anything. It's more corrupted and worthless than the genpop.....I promise you.

[Fortis]

(05-28-2016 05:49 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 05:37 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Look at this thing:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look...1464359194

Aloha!

Aloha is right, as in hello and goodbye to anything that stands in the way of this weapon.

Reading stories like this (everyone should watch the video as well) makes me wonder whether the current stale peace is going to last for quite a long time, because the Chinese will never be able to delude themselves even for a moment that they have a snowflake's chance in hell if they fuck with us in any way.

Agreed. Whenever dudes start talking about China's massive number of farm boys, I begin chuckling.

The are not warriors. They built a wall the keep the enemies out instead of going out and fighting them. That's playing not to lose, not playing to win.

I think, the last time I read, it was said that China's military capabilities are where USAs were in the early 90s or something?

[LeeEnfield303]

It doesn't matter what weapons we have...if we don't have the will to use them.

Our CINC just apologized for winning World War II in front of our enemy. Ponder that.

[Enigma]

(05-28-2016 05:49 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 05:37 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Look at this thing:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look...1464359194

Aloha!

Aloha is right, as in hello and goodbye to anything that stands in the way of this weapon.

Reading stories like this (everyone should watch the video as well) makes me wonder whether the current stale peace is going to last for quite a long time, because the Chinese will never be able to delude themselves even for a moment that they have a snowflake's chance in hell if they fuck with us in any way.

The thing that I usually point out when this subject comes up is how long many US-developed military technologies stayed completely or relatively unknown to the general public for years during and after their creation.

I absolutely guarantee that there is fully operational military technology hidden away in some underground bunker that's far beyond anything we currently know about. It'll sit there until it's needed or outdated, whichever comes first.

In a poker game, as long as no one calls your bet, there's never any reason to show your hand.

They'll publicize that railgun as a deterrent, but they already have something better tucked away.

[dain_bramage]

Has anyone mentioned here the massive naval superiority that the USA has currently? I think there's about 12 Nimitz class super aircraft carriers which is far and above the one re built former Soviet Union carrier that China just commissioned. That's just their carriers. Think about all the destroyers, cruisers, and small ships! Its insane! If you include the navies of NATO with the USA navy then you get all their carriers, frigates, destroyers. Don't forget the subs and the sub nuke launcers. Its bloody amazing. It would take quite the alliance of nations to destroy the US Navy and that of NATO. Or a massive, truly massive, naval air campaign along with missiles and torpedoes that would wreck the US navy before it could efficiently respond.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ai...n_service.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cu...tates_Navy

In comparison is the Chinese Navy list of ships:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ac...Navy_ships

Then there's Russia's navy which in terms of numbers is not nearly as big the USA Navy.

I think it would be unwise for Russia or China to take on the USA in a conventional naval war separately. If Russia and China were allied and could maintain enough air superiority and excellent use of subs and small craft in coastal waters around say Shanghai, or out at Port Arthur they could do some damage. On the high seas if the US Navy is concentrated enough and not too spread out it could maul any opposition force not strong enough to punch a hole through the screens.

[Kona]

(05-28-2016 09:03 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 05:49 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 05:37 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Look at this thing:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look...1464359194

Aloha!

Aloha is right, as in hello and goodbye to anything that stands in the way of this weapon.

Reading stories like this (everyone should watch the video as well) makes me wonder whether the current stale peace is going to last for quite a long time, because the Chinese will never be able to delude themselves even for a moment that they have a snowflake's chance in hell if they fuck with us in any way.

The thing that I usually point out when this subject comes up is how long many US-developed military technologies stayed completely or relatively unknown to the general public for years during and after their creation.

I absolutely guarantee that there is fully operational military technology hidden away in some underground bunker that's far beyond anything we currently know about. It'll sit there until it's needed or outdated, whichever comes first.

In a poker game, as long as no one calls your bet, there's never any reason to show your hand.

They'll publicize that railgun as a deterrent, but they already have something better tucked away.

I agree.

Right at the start of Afghanistan I was on a massive ship. I had to buy a bunch of small inflatable boats so the crews could test fire a thing called the Phalanx CIWS. Its not at all my job but I watched them do it. This was one of the scariest things I've ever seen, or heard. The sound of the thing was just frightening. This video doesn't do it justice, but this thing is unreal:

That thing ran completely independently, and had some type of mathematical formula that told it what to kill whether it be a boat a missile a plane, etc. Amazing.

Aloha!

[Thoroughbred]

(05-28-2016 07:30 AM)cubanlinx Wrote:  

I think Tiger Mandingo was exercising some deliberate sarcasm. His last sentence seemed to imply that the US and Israel had the two most powerful armies, which is a positive response to the US army's might.
At least, that's how I comprehended it. I could be wrong.

Nah, not having that shit. What he wrote deserves an explanation and retraction, not just a delete and fade into the background.

(05-28-2016 06:42 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Quite frankly, I'm going to chime in and say that I think the whole "The US Military is the greatest in the world" is a complete line of bullshit sold to you by neocons. It's great for whipping people up into a frenzy to support stupid invasions.
...
This shows in the military's results: Ever since they introduced PC softening and the current promotion system around the time of the Vietnam war, the military has failed to win a single conflict with the possible exception of a bombing campaign that they aborted before the actual invasion(Desert Storm).

You've missed the point as illustrated by your own words. There are the most effective and capable, but politics and bureaucracy nerf them.

[El Chinito loco]

When the reset button is eventually hit with humanity I just hope that whatever radioactive amoebas are left can form together into a more intelligent and reasonable being than what we have now.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(05-28-2016 05:37 PM)Kona Wrote:  

Look at this thing:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look...1464359194

Aloha!

The Chinese probably already have the exact specs, grabbed from Hillary's server.