[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

I think most here are familiar with the popular concept of the State of Flow. When you are working on a task, and you become involved with the task until you are fully immersed, you are in a state of flow. When you are in this state, hours can slip by while you are working on the task, and you'll hardly notice the time.

The state of flow is usually described as a very desirable thing. Wikipedia describes it as follows:

"In flow, the emotions are not just contained and channeled, but positive, energized, and aligned with the task at hand. The hallmark of flow is a feeling of spontaneous joy, even rapture, while performing a task,[2] although flow is also described (below) as a deep focus on nothing but the activity – not even oneself or one's emotions."

However, in recent years, I have an aversion to entering the state of flow, at least for work related things. I reached a point in my work several years back, where I was burned out, and felt all my hard work was bringing little benefit to my life. Things are much better now, but this feeling remains.

Before I burnt out, I used to often get engaged in my work and would achieve the state of flow. However, I viewed it as only being a state of focused attention on complex tasks. It was hard work, frequently tedious, but it took that kind of focus to wrap my mind around the complexity and implement a solution to the task.

From this point of view, the time that slips away during this state of flow is more like lost time. Frankly, I'm reluctant to give up my time for this. I don't want days and years slipping by doing work on mundane but mentally strenuous tasks.

I know that people would say I should do something more interesting, but I already have a job most people would say is interesting, and this current kind of work is the only way I have for the time being of earning the income I need to pay my bills.

I'd like to find a more positive frame of mind about entering the state of flow. Maybe the work I am doing could lead to feelings of joy and energy, such that I find it desirable, instead of being time lost to tiring work.

What do you guys think? Do you see a distinction between a joyful state of flow, vs. tiring focus on mentally strenuous tasks? If you get involved in something, and suddenly the day has slipped by, do you feel like a day of your life just disappeared without you noticing it, or did you live that day to its fullest?

I'd appreciate your perspectives on this.

[RexImperator]

There is an important difference I think. In one state you are more aware, almost hyper aware of everything, your surroundings, including your body, while in the other you are becoming hyper focused with almost tunnel vision on the task. In the second you actually becoming less aware, and less conscious.

[justforfun19713]

Personally I am a huge fan of entering a state of flow as a means to be highly productive or get through a task that will take longer than a few minutes to complete. I refer to it as ‘trance.’ This is based on my own efforts incorporate NLP into my life. Without shifting the topic too much, I’ll make the statement that the ‘trance / hypnotic state’ spoken of by some practitioners of Neuro Linguistic Programming is identical to the ‘flow state’ discussed by folks like Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. As an aside, NLP references that guys like Jeffries and Strauss within pick-up and Game ten to focus on the outward expression (what you say, how you say, tonality) vs. inward expression (reaching state, modelling, hypnotherapy), which is where I focused my studies.

Back to your topic. I find it interesting that you mention burn out as being a reason for avoiding a state of flow. Is the work you do meaningful to you? Does it give you a purpose and drive? Is it of a creative nature? In my own experience, I use ‘flow state’ to get through the mundane. Entering my list of tasks into the CRM at work. Manipulating numbers on a spreadsheet. Completing paperwork. Getting through the tasks of my day. I also use ‘flow state’ to block out things that distract me. I am developing a taste for classical music and I am finding that (especially at live venues) there are numerous things that distract. Consciously entering ‘flow state’ enables me to more thoroughly enjoy the music and avoid distractions.

I rarely use ‘flow state’ for my own creative efforts that require my attention. Somehow it doesn’t work for me and I am not able to get as much done. I also find that I am unable to use ‘flow state’ for things like proofreading, building a customized PowerPoint deck for a presentation, or checking whether figures are accurately adding up.

How do you enter ‘flow state?’ There seem to be as many ways as there are believers in the concept, which means you have to find what works for you. When I am working, I use EDM with no words. When I am listening to Mahler or Tchaikovsky, I use visualization to each the same state.

Look forward to continuing the conversation here… This is a topic I’ve spent a lot of time on and the efforts I have made have paid off tremendously.

[WestIndianArchie]

I'm against it. Easy mode that you can't regularly access isn't helpful

WIA

[justforfun19713]

Books and links on the topic that I have found useful over the years:

•Rapt: Attention and the Focused Life (Winifred Gallagher)
•Why We Do What We Do: Understanding Self-Motivation (Edward L. Deci, Richard Flaste)
•Guide to Trance-formation: How to Harness the Power of Hypnosis to Ignite Effortless and Lasting Change (Richard Bandler)
•Using Your Brain--For a Change (Richard Bandler)
•The Structure of Magic Volumes 1 and 2 (Bandler & Grinder)
•Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience (Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi)
•TED Talk that Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi did on the topic back in 2004 http://www.ted.com/talks/mihaly_csikszen...yi_on_flow
•‘Is NLP Worth Learning?’ thread-33889.html
•‘Academic Research Article on the Seduction Community’ thread-33208.html

[debeguiled]

You are making a distinction between flow state and being in a trance.

This seems like a useful distinction to make. Hypnotists call the state of rapt attention and lost time something like a minor trance state. There is nothing special about it. It is like going on autopilot and daydreaming while you drive, and suddenly being at your destination without being aware of the journey. Even watching tv can elicit it.

When I think of flow states, I think of being in social situations where words and actions come naturally without strain, or playing basketball and hitting a bunch of shots in a row. These are special, and for the most part cannot be called on at will. They are positive and are to be savored when they arise. If you find a way to enter them at will, so much the better.

It can't be pleasant to have to enter a minor trance to make work tolerable. Seems like it is a separate experience from flow, and even if it is flow, why waste your flow on stuff you hate?

[justforfun19713]

Debeguiled, I don’t think I ever thought about it from the perspective of a hypnotic trance being different from flow, but you may be onto something. When I read Csikszentmihalyi’s book, I found a lot of it to be similar to the way Bandler describes parts of hypnotic trance, and the value derived. I say parts, because certainly the two are different. I freely admit to having entered into my own study of the concept of flow from the perspective of an NLP practitioner (which, I am not… Maybe ‘frame of mind’ is a better way to put it). I certainly owe ‘Flow’ (the book) a 2nd read, and your point has prompted me to do so sooner rather than later.

Your point about being able to enter social situations with an ease in actions and words at will, I would submit that it is exactly comparable to the methods used by successful athletes and others before a game, taking a golf swing, etc… Given enough of the right practice, one can certainly enter the proper state at will for almost any situation; it takes a ‘bit of experimentation.

Edit: I know I can do a google / Amazon search on this (and I will); Any recommendations (or ones to stay away from) on other books on the topic of Flow?

[Hannibal]

The book "5000 words per hour" gives you some tips into forcing yourself into a flow state.

It takes work, it takes discipline, but it can be done and it's the only way I actually get anything done.

You basically set a stopwatch for a certain amount of time and you force yourself to absolutely obey that stopwatch. Your house could be burning down but you do not stop what you're doing while it ticks down.

Practice makes perfect, I don't fuck around when the clock is ticking.

I do this for lifting, I do it for writing (currently sitting at 3000 words an hour as per the books recommendations, I can hit 5k words an hour in a 5 minute word sprint) and I do it for studying.

When I type, my fingers do not stop typing.

When I lift, I rep out the exercise as many times as possible in a 20 minute time span, then Ding! I'm done.

Set an arbitrary time limit and let yourself get lost.

The hardest part is setting the time aside to set the stopwatch.

As far as studying flow, you don't need to know why it works. You need to know what it does and how to induce it at will. For me, the flow state allows me to become one with whatever I am doing, it is an altered state of consciousness where everything seems to fall into place. It's almost like being in the third person. I use it to get things done without expending a great mental energy to do it. Inducing it is as simple as setting the stopwatch and then allowing myself to get lost in the material at hand.

[Fortis]

I set a 30 minute timer and ONLY work for 30 minutes and by the end I want to keep going well beyond thirty minutes. Easy mode flow.