[HankMoody]

So you met this chick on Tinder. She swiped right. You swiped right. Good stuff.

You meet up at the bar for a drink, and things seem like they went well. She doesn't come back to your house, but sends you a text after saying "Hey, I had fun tonight."

You try and setup a second date but she "has plans." Nevertheless, the two of you exchange witty text banter all week, and she eventually agrees to meet up with you for dinner. After, she says her dog is feeling sick and she needs to be home by 10pm. You go to kiss her in the parking lot and she sort of turns her cheek. You continue to text back and forth with her, but none of your dates never seem to materialize. Now what?

Well, first off, let's get something straight. Women will absolutely keep you around for validation or because they're bored without having any sexual interest in you. Clearly, playing into that in hopes of sex makes you a beta orbiter.

So obviously, the answer is to "next" her, right? Block her from your phone, delete her off Facebook (assuming you let her friend you), and never talk to her again. Isn't that common knowledge in the manosphere now?

The reality is that is very beta, emotional behavior.

Block her? What the fuck? Do her text messages make you cry? Considering you've only met her a few times, having that kind of emotional investment makes you a total loser. It's even worse if prior to blocking her, you give her a speech about what a high value man you are who hates to have his time wasted.

The reality is that totally nexting a bitch does not benefit you in any way. Quite the contrary. She'll go around and tell her friends about what a loser you are, and how you acted like a baby when she didn't instantly return your advances.

So how do you avoid wasting your time without becoming a beta orbiter?

I know this sounds almost too easy, but if you find a girl's interest isn't all there, simply dial it back. Don't return her text messages immediately, and if she asks if something is wrong just send something along the lines of "sorry my phone died." Respond laconically, and don't ask her to make plans. Something along these lines:

"Hey Hank, watcha doing?"
"nintendo"
"I was at Steak House today and the steak was SO GOOD!"
[this is where most betas would say "we should totally go there together"]
"cool"
"You seem busy..."
"ya about to beat bald bull ttyl"

You don't need to cut her off completely. Just don't put any investment into the relationship, do not pursue her, and let her come to you. But do it without being rude or a dick about it. If she asks, do not ever validate her with an explanation, and always keep it extremely light:

"Hey, Hank, everything cool with us? You haven't been texting me back lately..."
"?"
"And your texts have been really short."
"deep stuff is what my blog is for haha"
"Ok. How have you been?"
"living the dream"

I hate it when the common advice is to tell her "I have enough friends" or "I don't need any friends" or to tell her that she's wasting your time. That makes you come off like a needy butthurt loser, hoping for a better outcome. If you find she's wasting your time, it's because you're letting her. If you don't like that, stop letting her.

Taking this approach, often I find that a bang lost today becomes a bang had tomorrow. I can't tell you how many texts I get out of the blue after not talking to a gal for a month or two. In the interim, I never chastise her, ask questions, try and define the relationship, text her unless she texts me, or give her an explanation for my behavior.

Even if it doesn't materialize into a bang, she'll probably maintain a positive opinion of you and remain tangentially in your social network. It's much easier to get bangs with a robust social network.

[churros]

This is good. But on the other hand, to have her texting out of the blue requires considerable time investment. You're becoming her friend at that point, even if the attraction is simmering. I went on a day two the other night – she came back to my place, but would not even kiss. So that's a next. I don't expect her to be hitting me up, which negates the long game.

[HankMoody]

(04-30-2016 02:46 PM)churros Wrote:  

This is good. But on the other hand, to have her texting out of the blue requires considerable time investment. You're becoming her friend at that point, even if the attraction is simmering. I went on a day two the other night – she came back to my place, but would not even kiss. So that's a next. I don't expect her to be hitting me up, which negates the long game.

In which case you've lost nothing.

I've definitely had scenarios where I've brought a girl back to my house, nothing happened, and I never heard from her again.

The key, in my view, is to stop taking any affirmative action. If she texts you, reply when you feel like, but don't try and setup another date.

If we become "friends" so be it. I'm not going to drive her to the airport, buy her dinner, or really do anything except not be mean to her.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(04-30-2016 02:35 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

So you met this chick on Tinder. She swiped right. You swiped right. Good stuff.

You meet up at the bar for a drink, and things seem like they went well. She doesn't come back to your house, but sends you a text after saying "Hey, I had fun tonight."

You try and setup a second date but she "has plans." Nevertheless, the two of you exchange witty text banter all week, and she eventually agrees to meet up with you for dinner. After, she says her dog is feeling sick and she needs to be home by 10pm. You go to kiss her in the parking lot and she sort of turns her cheek. You continue to text back and forth with her, but none of your dates never seem to materialize. Now what?

Well, first off, let's get something straight. Women will absolutely keep you around for validation or because they're bored without having any sexual interest in you. Clearly, playing into that in hopes of sex makes you a beta orbiter.

So obviously, the answer is to "next" her, right? Block her from your phone, delete her off Facebook (assuming you let her friend you), and never talk to her again. Isn't that common knowledge in the manosphere now?

The reality is that is very beta, emotional behavior.

Block her? What the fuck? Do her text messages make you cry? Considering you've only met her a few times, having that kind of emotional investment makes you a total loser. It's even worse if prior to blocking her, you give her a speech about what a high value man you are who hates to have his time wasted.

The reality is that totally nexting a bitch does not benefit you in any way. Quite the contrary. She'll go around and tell her friends about what a loser you are, and how you acted like a baby when she didn't instantly return your advances.

So how do you avoid wasting your time without becoming a beta orbiter?

I know this sounds almost too easy, but if you find a girl's interest isn't all there, simply dial it back. Don't return her text messages immediately, and if she asks if something is wrong just send something along the lines of "sorry my phone died." Respond laconically, and don't ask her to make plans. Something along these lines:

"Hey Hank, watcha doing?"
"nintendo"
"I was at Steak House today and the steak was SO GOOD!"
[this is where most betas would say "we should totally go there together"]
"cool"
"You seem busy..."
"ya about to beat bald bull ttyl"

You don't need to cut her off completely. Just don't put any investment into the relationship, do not pursue her, and let her come to you. But do it without being rude or a dick about it. If she asks, do not ever validate her with an explanation, and always keep it extremely light:

"Hey, Hank, everything cool with us? You haven't been texting me back lately..."
"?"
"And your texts have been really short."
"deep stuff is what my blog is for haha"
"Ok. How have you been?"
"living the dream"

I hate it when the common advice is to tell her "I have enough friends" or "I don't need any friends" or to tell her that she's wasting your time. That makes you come off like a needy butthurt loser, hoping for a better outcome. If you find she's wasting your time, it's because you're letting her. If you don't like that, stop letting her.

Taking this approach, often I find that a bang lost today becomes a bang had tomorrow. I can't tell you how many texts I get out of the blue after not talking to a gal for a month or two. In the interim, I never chastise her, ask questions, try and define the relationship, text her unless she texts me, or give her an explanation for my behavior.

Even if it doesn't materialize into a bang, she'll probably maintain a positive opinion of you and remain tangentially in your social network. It's much easier to get bangs with a robust social network.

This is right on the money. But it's no co-incidence that you end up profiting by it in the long run, since it constitutes in itself a form of drama game in which the woman is made curious by your indifference and seeks to hoover you back in to at least find out why you've gone cool on her. On the other hand, by getting butthurt by a woman not paying out and just using you for validation, she paradoxically still ends up getting that validation you want to deny her through knowing that you're pissed off about being friend-zoned by her. As with all sociopaths, narcissists and borderlines, ignoring them is the most potent form of payback and nothing causes a woman's hamster to spin like a tumble dryer experiencing a mains surge than when you simply dial the volume right, right down, without any obvious explanation why.

[Rhyme or Reason]

Blocking a girls number or giving her some fucking lecture indeed shows you're butthurt and that's lame as fuck. That's why you employ a soft next. It's called having standards with what you're willing to tolerate, and setting the terms of the interaction. This is what men do.

All the circle jerking about "showing her what shes missing" is the realm of future MGTOW followers or virgin incels.

[BoricuaKing]

(04-30-2016 04:06 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

Blocking a girls number or giving her some fucking lecture indeed shows you're butthurt and that's lame as fuck. That's why you employ a soft next. It's called having standards with what you're willing to tolerate, and setting the terms of the interaction. This is what men do.

All the circle jerking about "showing her what shes missing" is the realm of future MGTOW followers or virgin incels.

Soft next

That's the perfect phrase to describe this. When you truly don't give a fuck nor need them at all you can just ignore them completely. That's when they really blow your phone up and meltdown.

[XPQ22]

Girl texts me "I dunno. It's just been a busy week all around, I don't know what's going on with this party on Saturday, I'm sorry but I just and..."

<hours later>

Me: "homph nomph nomph I'm eatin' onion rings. you want some?"

"Oh I so doooo"

Pretty much my standard "She's being flakey" script now, unless she totally disrespects me by standing me up last minute - reply hours later with non sequitur nonsense.

[RatInTheWoods]

+1 I am a fan of the "Soft Next".

Just drop off the effort level before hers, she will either ramp up or disappear, either way you have lost nothing and maybe gained something.

[trainwreck]

(04-30-2016 04:06 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

Blocking a girls number or giving her some fucking lecture indeed shows you're butthurt and that's lame as fuck. That's why you employ a soft next. It's called having standards with what you're willing to tolerate, and setting the terms of the interaction. This is what men do.

All the circle jerking about "showing her what shes missing" is the realm of future MGTOW followers or virgin incels.

I don't block them but I unfriend them on FB and delete their numbers so I don't drunkenly hit them up. If they want to msg me, so be it.

The FB unfriend is regarding me living in a small city. I wonder if that's a bad or a good move. My logic is that many times you will see friends in common and they will go and ask the girls in common about you. If you didn't bang them then the feedback will probably be negative or at least lower your value, what do you guys think?

[Foolsgo1d]

I block them because they're a waste of time. Whatsapp and third party text blockers are good for this and I use them sometimes, not always.

When a girl just comes across as her shit tastes like butter it just rubs me the wrong way and I stop texting, then block her. I do this in real life so why not through technology?

[HankMoody]

(04-30-2016 07:39 PM)trainwreck Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 04:06 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

Blocking a girls number or giving her some fucking lecture indeed shows you're butthurt and that's lame as fuck. That's why you employ a soft next. It's called having standards with what you're willing to tolerate, and setting the terms of the interaction. This is what men do.

All the circle jerking about "showing her what shes missing" is the realm of future MGTOW followers or virgin incels.

I don't block them but I unfriend them on FB and delete their numbers so I don't drunkenly hit them up. If they want to msg me, so be it.

The FB unfriend is regarding me living in a small city. I wonder if that's a bad or a good move. My logic is that many times you will see friends in common and they will go and ask the girls in common about you. If you didn't bang them then the feedback will probably be negative or at least lower your value, what do you guys think?

I never unfriend anyone for any reason. However, all of my posts are set to public, and I rarely post anything except sports commentary, political commentary, legal commentary, or pictures of cool stuff that I'm doing. I'll go days or weeks without posting anything. I don't respond to Facebook messages unless they're work related.

[HankMoody]

(04-30-2016 08:55 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

I block them because they're a waste of time. Whatsapp and third party text blockers are good for this and I use them sometimes, not always.

When a girl just comes across as her shit tastes like butter it just rubs me the wrong way and I stop texting, then block her. I do this in real life so why not through technology?

Why not just ignore them instead?

Blocking her makes you look like a weakling - like seeing her text messages would make you sad or something. Plus you never know what's going to happen down the road. Burning the bridge for the sake of burning it is silly, unnecessary, and counterproductive.

I've never blocked anyone for any reason.

[HankMoody]

Quick background to this text exchange... I banged this girl two weeks ago. She went on vacation. She returned and was like "I'm back from vacation." I didn't respond. Then she randomly sends me a nudie. I respond along the lines of "hey, let's hang out, I wanna go watch some jazz." I was downtown anyway hanging out at a jazz bar. She says "sure", but inexplicably flakes.

Rather than get pissed, I literally do nothing. This pisses her off, and then I act like nothing is amiss. I suspect she was trying to prompt a response in the first place.

Bonus: jazz show was great and I got a few numbers.



Predictably, she's suddenly stopped flaking.

[XPQ22]

^ long series of four word replies usually strikes me as the standard "girl who isn't particularly interested" script.

[spygoat]

I love the soft next. Any girl who you might've slipped on gets reeled back in, and if they don't, they were probably just using you for beta orbiter/validation anyway, on to the next one. Some may argue that by playing hard to get is a way to demonstrate that they are indeed not a slut/easy, however, in my experience this is not usually the case.

[Beau]

The soft next is the way to go. The only reason to block a girl or delete her number is if you don't have the self control to not reach out to her. A lot of times that self control is difficult to develop, so no shame in using whatever tools you need. However, a soft next is always best to show your ZFG attitude towards her as well as leaving the door open for her to crawl back through. You never know who will decide to finally fling themselves at you at 2 am on a Thursday. Keep you options open, but on your own terms.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-30-2016 09:31 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Why not just ignore them instead?

Blocking her makes you look like a weakling - like seeing her text messages would make you sad or something. Plus you never know what's going to happen down the road. Burning the bridge for the sake of burning it is silly, unnecessary, and counterproductive.

I've never blocked anyone for any reason.

Agreed...Never decide a buyer isn't a buyer for the buyer

[Dalaran1991]

Agree with Hank. Blocking her or deleting her or any other negative reaction is simply that, a negative reaction that admits to her and yourself that you are unnerved.

Your mentality must be such that a girl who is not your LTR/wife can not unnerve you. She flakes? No answer no texting back, you are still going out anyway. Long text exchange without a date set up? Stop texting her until she agrees to a date with bang prospect.

However I believe most of the time a girl like this will simply ghost out of your life. Once a while you may get a bang out of this, but you must not let the prospect of banging her get into or head.

This mentality so far helped to keep me sane in a city where flaking and cockteasing is the national sport.

IME the people who block/unfriend are without exception SJW, immature or frustrated. A man is neither one of these.

[Foolsgo1d]

(04-30-2016 09:31 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 08:55 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

I block them because they're a waste of time. Whatsapp and third party text blockers are good for this and I use them sometimes, not always.

When a girl just comes across as her shit tastes like butter it just rubs me the wrong way and I stop texting, then block her. I do this in real life so why not through technology?

Why not just ignore them instead?

Blocking her makes you look like a weakling - like seeing her text messages would make you sad or something. Plus you never know what's going to happen down the road. Burning the bridge for the sake of burning it is silly, unnecessary, and counterproductive.

I've never blocked anyone for any reason.

I don't even feature in her life for her to consider me a weakling and by that point I've already made it clear I don't like her for some reason or another.

These are not women I have any invested interest in meeting because they are out for validation. I have not blocked evry woman who I never had the chance to bang and you're right about the boomerang effect.

If I find a woman to my disliking I treat her like I would in person, I ignore her completely. Blocking is just an extension of this. It saves me receiving a lengthy text or phone call from them which if I remember correctly was the whole reason I started blocking them in the first place.

[DrCotard]

Excellent datasheet. Blocking a girl on WhatsApp and the rest of social media is a waste of time. Personally I prefer to use indifference to reject and soft nexting girls because it's more powerful. For me, this method has worked wonders, specially on dating apps.

The ironic thing about blocking a girl (on FB, WhatsApp and social media in general) is that you come as a pissed off guy in her eyes.

[Travesty]

Only thing I can think of that I see guys do these classics in text, which I think sound like they are looking for approval:

Girl: "What are you doing? / How have you been?"

Player: "taking over the world / living the dream / whatever I want" and so on...

When I think of a man with a lot of options I just never could see him sending or saying this, yet it is very popular as far as internet pickup culture goes. Even with Trump's money and power (where these texts would be closest to thing to authentic literal truth as you could get from a human) if he was single I could never see him texting these for instance nor a Hollywood heart throb.

I always thought a simple vague "doin great lately" or "going real well". For what are you doing I'd type a one liner with something interesting coming up I was planning for though be very vague. The above sounds like what a 15 year old with bravado would respond with. Just my take.

If I wanted to try to make her laugh I think I'd try something else, pictures, ridiculous stories (very catered towards the girl's sense of humor).

[Valentine]

Agreed. Her "No" is simply "Not Right Now".

In one week, one month, one year it could be a solid "Yes Please!".

Keep sending mass texts, low investment pings, whatever to stay on their radar.

It shouldn't be a large time investment and is a fantastic low time cost funnel.

Internet marketers do the exact same thing with their email lists, trying all sorts of tricks to re-engage their leads. Very rarely do they prune their lists. Because why? It gains them no benefit at all getting rid of a potential future customer, no matter how low the likelihood of conversion.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(05-03-2016 04:44 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Only thing I can think of that I see guys do these classics in text, which I think sound like they are looking for approval:

Girl: "What are you doing? / How have you been?"

Player: "taking over the world / living the dream / whatever I want" and so on...

When I think of a man with a lot of options I just never could see him sending or saying this, yet it is very popular as far as internet pickup culture goes. Even with Trump's money and power (where these texts would be closest to thing to authentic literal truth as you could get from a human) if he was single I could never see him texting these for instance nor a Hollywood heart throb.

I always thought a simple vague "doin great lately" or "going real well". For what are you doing I'd type a one liner with something interesting coming up I was planning for though be very vague. The above sounds like what a 15 year old with bravado would respond with. Just my take.

If I wanted to try to make her laugh I think I'd try something else, pictures, ridiculous stories (very catered towards the girl's sense of humor).

This 100 percent. I really don't get the whole cutesy / over the top bullshit texts some of the guys on here advocate for. It's gay as fuck.

Quote:

Me: "homph nomph nomph I'm eatin' onion rings. you want some?"

I would feel like a yuge phaggit if I sent this.

The humor that I use in texting is based on rapport I've already built with the broad via inside jokes. If she says something funny while we're hanging out I will sometimes send that to her in text form as a sort of non sequitur. That's as close as I get to this sort of shit.

PS, when a girl asks what you're doing and you say shit like "taking over the world" it makes you sound like a try hard. That is NOT playing it cool. That's playacting like you're cool...when you're clearly not.

[TheBlackNarwhal]

I have to disagree on this.

If I don't get the desired result out of my efforts with a girl and it's clear she doesn't reciprocate, why even have her as blip on my radar?

Are you guys seriously hoping these chicks text you months from now when they're bored only to do the same shit to you they did in the first place, waste your time?

I don't want my phone filled with useless numbers from women who are not sexually available to me.

I don't want to be a "text buddy" and waste more time salvaging a broad who has proved to me a dead end.

[Rhyme or Reason]

Quote:

If I don't get the desired result out of my efforts with a girl and it's clear she doesn't reciprocate, why even have her as blip on my radar?

Nobody is saying keep her around.

Quote:

Are you guys seriously hoping these chicks text you months from now when they're bored only to do the same shit to you they did in the first place, waste your time?

No we aren't. Nobody said that.

Quote:

I don't want my phone filled with useless numbers from women who are not sexually available to me.

Nobody said you shouldn't delete her number

Quote:

I don't want to be a "text buddy" and waste more time salvaging a broad who has proved to me a dead end.

It would appear you need to work on your reading comprehension.