[Basil Ransom]

A strong resonant voice is an incredible asset in the game, yet I never see it discussed in any detail. Those who have it command attention with ease. Celebrity aside, James Earl Jones could read the Chins in a Chinese phonebook and still get it wet. I've met few guys that actually have a strong resonant voice, or done any sort of voice work. Maybe it's entirely genetic, maybe not, but it's worth exploring. Has anyone here worked on their voice, or even taught others? Any sort of advice is welcome. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but it seems like an overlooked way to improve your vibe.

My voice cannot be heard well in loud environments, basically any bar, and it hurts my game markedly in those environments. My voice is fine in quiet places; deep, perhaps a bit monotone. Even in quiet environments though, it seems like people are more likely to interrupt me because my voice is rather relaxed and uncommanding. Compared with a guy I know who everyone hated, and had a piercing, high-pitched voice, but one simply couldn't ignore or interrupt him.

I've tried self-instruction, but it didn't address my issues, whatever they are. I have even gone to a few voice teachers. Maybe I didn't do it for long enough, and maybe because they had no experience in *speaking* voice lessons, but they never did much good. I'm looking once again for a teacher though.

[Rah]

I'm interested in this as well. For a quality/skill that seems to be so valuable in all areas of life, I can't think of a clear discipline centered around training it.

Maybe shit loads of public speaking? Acting? Singing? Radio broadcast school?

[Vitriol]

(07-18-2011 06:11 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

A strong resonant voice is an incredible asset in the game, yet I never see it discussed in any detail. Those who have it command attention with ease. Celebrity aside, James Earl Jones could read the Chins in a Chinese phonebook and still get it wet. I've met few guys that actually have a strong resonant voice, or done any sort of voice work. Maybe it's entirely genetic, maybe not, but it's worth exploring. Has anyone here worked on their voice, or even taught others? Any sort of advice is welcome. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but it seems like an overlooked way to improve your vibe.

My voice cannot be heard well in loud environments, basically any bar, and it hurts my game markedly in those environments. My voice is fine in quiet places; deep, perhaps a bit monotone. Even in quiet environments though, it seems like people are more likely to interrupt me because my voice is rather relaxed and uncommanding. Compared with a guy I know who everyone hated, and had a piercing, high-pitched voice, but one simply couldn't ignore or interrupt him.

I actually think a lot of it is genetic. I have a very deep, monotone voice, and I do not sound high pitched or excited at all 99% of the time I'm talking. I've also had to do lots of public speaking and I had a radio show several years ago. It didn't really change anything.

Dudes with mid range or high pitched voices do seem to attract a woman's attention more easily. I think it's just something you have to live with and command attention in other ways. Touching or feeling up a bitch (aka "caveman gave") while you're talking seems to help.

[SoundnTheFury]

(07-18-2011 07:13 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

(07-18-2011 06:11 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

A strong resonant voice is an incredible asset in the game, yet I never see it discussed in any detail. Those who have it command attention with ease. Celebrity aside, James Earl Jones could read the Chins in a Chinese phonebook and still get it wet. I've met few guys that actually have a strong resonant voice, or done any sort of voice work. Maybe it's entirely genetic, maybe not, but it's worth exploring. Has anyone here worked on their voice, or even taught others? Any sort of advice is welcome. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but it seems like an overlooked way to improve your vibe.

My voice cannot be heard well in loud environments, basically any bar, and it hurts my game markedly in those environments. My voice is fine in quiet places; deep, perhaps a bit monotone. Even in quiet environments though, it seems like people are more likely to interrupt me because my voice is rather relaxed and uncommanding. Compared with a guy I know who everyone hated, and had a piercing, high-pitched voice, but one simply couldn't ignore or interrupt him.

I actually think a lot of it is genetic. I have a very deep, monotone voice, and I do not sound high pitched or excited at all 99% of the time I'm talking. I've also had to do lots of public speaking and I had a radio show several years ago. It didn't really change anything.

Dudes with mid range or high pitched voices do seem to attract a woman's attention more easily. I think it's just something you have to live with and command attention in other ways. Touching or feeling up a bitch (aka "caveman gave") while you're talking seems to help.

Genetics aside, I think you can improve the tone of your voice by practice. Start with your posture. Shoulders back, shoulder blades down. Then breathing--breath through your diaphragm. Then concentrate on projecting your voice through proper breathing. Speak slowly, clearly, and a little louder than you think you need. Its helped me.

[hypesession]

Try yelling like crazy for a few hours to music. it will get your voice nice and raspy.

use your stomach to speak and be aware of your breathing when you speak. take a breath before you start a word to get more power out of it.

You don't need to speak loudly all the time like you're totally oblivious to your social environment. Varying intonation is a good effect. Try starting loud and authoritative to get attention and then adjust and be loud when you have to .

Accent weird parts of words to throw people off, use rhythm and meter.

Use pauses.

Smiling while you speak and using wild flailing gestures might change your monotonous boring voice.

[Basil Ransom]

(07-18-2011 07:13 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

I actually think a lot of it is genetic. I have a very deep, monotone voice, and I do not sound high pitched or excited at all 99% of the time I'm talking. I've also had to do lots of public speaking and I had a radio show several years ago. It didn't really change anything.

Dudes with mid range or high pitched voices do seem to attract a woman's attention more easily. I think it's just something you have to live with and command attention in other ways. Touching or feeling up a bitch (aka "caveman gave") while you're talking seems to help.

Good to know I'm not the only one that feels this way. The problems I associate with my voice are never an issue on dates, because I select quiet venues without much outside interaction... dark alleys after midnight are best.

It's not entirely genetic, but it takes some serious attention and commitment to change your speaking patterns. Otherwise, you quickly revert to the way you usually talk, and all the practice and tutoring is for nothing. Loads of public speaking won't do much if you keep speaking in the same pattern. When I have gone for voice lessons, they've pointed out contributing factors to the softness of my voice, such as limited lip and tongue movement, or a locked jaw.

My voice used to be medium to high pitch, up til about sophomore year of college. Maybe it was just late puberty, but I started singing a certain Broadway tune plus some Frank Sinatra, and it opened up my range - I started speaking from my throat. That said, my dad has a deeper voice than anyone I know, to the point where his Mexican maid is scared to talk to him.

You can see some before/after testimonials here. Not spamming, just showing examples of people before and after voice lessons.

I just found a thread on another pickup forum about voice, and it described something I encounter A LOT.

Quote:

Have you ever approached a set or single target and you can see their face or faces lighting up in anticipation of what you are about to say, only after a few words their face becomes expressionless as they react to you speaking to them?

This happens to me all the time in night game - girls smile before I've even said anything, and even laugh when they hear my opener, but the smile wanes as they weary of straining to hear me. My verbal game isn't that cringe-worthy.

[Amour Fou]

(07-18-2011 06:11 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Has anyone here worked on their voice, or even taught others? Any sort of advice is welcome. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but it seems like an overlooked way to improve your vibe.

Ha!

Niiice... if I think I have a strong characteristic, its my voice.

I get complemented EVERY WEEK because of it, mainly from girls. Girls I meet instantly or after a while complement emphatically on it, and it made me feel powerful. The thing is, I didn't even realise when it started happening! They say I have a smooth, magnetic, hypnotic voice, that I could work as a radio show host.

And I do mean every week, it is completely empirical.

Do you want to know what I do?

I've been taking singing lessons for 4 years, twice a week for the last 2. Besides a good singing ability (still lots to learn), it completely altered my tone even when talking.

On my case, it is quite the opposite from "screaming to loud music", it is actually taking good care of my voice plus the whole technique involved in taking singing lessons.

I've been realising it is a powerful component of my assets, I just gotta learn to talk a bit slower.

And OBVIOUSLY, avoid smoke at ALL costs.

[Stitch]

Much the same here actually; I've been asked to do voiceovers for company videos and get complimented on my "radio voice" (recorded some audiobook stories too). It'll be an asset once I get to the point of approaching (still some legal matters to get over first...). It could be useful; my soon-to-be-ex regarded it as my "sexiest feature". We'll see about that.

[Tuthmosis]

Voice quality, resonance, and richness is something that I've worked on considerably in recent years. I agree that it's an important part of your persona and, by extension, your game. I actually talk a little about it in this thread.

I don't recommend screaming over music, smoking, or other harrowing strains of your voice in an effort to improve it. It rarely works and is likely to do permanent damage or further solidify poor speaking habits. The key is to learn to support your voice correctly with proper breathing and resonate it in the correct places in your throat, palate, and nasal cavity. This takes correct instruction and diligent, regular practice.

If you're going to work with a professional, make sure it's a voice therapist, not a voice coach.

[Screwston]

I have a deep ass voice that girls always comment on when we talk on the phone. OP why don't u like your deep voice? I gurantee you that shit will get good attention if you talk loud and let it be heard all around.

[Basil Ransom]

(07-18-2011 10:41 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

(07-18-2011 06:11 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Has anyone here worked on their voice, or even taught others? Any sort of advice is welcome. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but it seems like an overlooked way to improve your vibe.

Ha!

Niiice... if I think I have a strong characteristic, its my voice.

I get complemented EVERY WEEK because of it, mainly from girls. Girls I meet instantly or after a while complement emphatically on it, and it made me feel powerful. The thing is, I didn't even realise when it started happening! They say I have a smooth, magnetic, hypnotic voice, that I could work as a radio show host.

And I do mean every week, it is completely empirical.

Do you want to know what I do?

I've been taking singing lessons for 4 years, twice a week for the last 2. Besides a good singing ability (still lots to learn), it completely altered my tone even when talking.

On my case, it is quite the opposite from "screaming to loud music", it is actually taking good care of my voice plus the whole technique involved in taking singing lessons.

I've been realising it is a powerful component of my assets, I just gotta learn to talk a bit slower.

And OBVIOUSLY, avoid smoke at ALL costs.

I've been trawling my area, and there are way more singing teachers than there are speaking teachers, if there are any at all. I figure a speaking voice coach would be quicker - should I just go for a singing one?

(07-19-2011 01:18 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

Voice quality, resonance, and richness is something that I've worked on considerably in recent years. I agree that it's an important part of your persona and, by extension, your game. I actually talk a little about it in this thread.

I don't recommend screaming over music, smoking, or other harrowing strains of your voice in an effort to improve it. It rarely works and is likely to do permanent damage or further solidify poor speaking habits. The key is to learn to support your voice correctly with proper breathing and resonate it in the correct places in your throat, palate, and nasal cavity. This takes correct instruction and diligent, regular practice.

If you're going to work with a professional, make sure it's a voice therapist, not a voice coach.

Can you elaborate as to the difference, and how to identify each? I actually have a relative who's a speech therapist, and I had a free consultation with her way back, and we just talked about why I had a quiet voice, growing up. Basically psychobabble BS. My sister is one too, but she doesn't know **** about resonance, and acts as if I made up the whole concept out of thin air.

Also, I see you Tuth and Amour Fou continue taking lessons, and have heard this from others - are you still experiencing improvements from lessons years later, is it a maintenance thing, or what? I figured I'd take lessons for a month or few, and be done with it, but I'm open-minded.

(07-19-2011 01:26 AM)houston Wrote:  

I have a deep ass voice that girls always comment on when we talk on the phone. OP why don't u like your deep voice? I gurantee you that shit will get good attention if you talk loud and let it be heard all around.

I like my voice deep, and it's awesome when the girl can feel it loud and clear. Problem is when she can't. I do have a relaxing phone voice, and am often a better conversationalist on the phone than in person.

[Feo]

Two things for working on your voice.

1. Be more calm. Breathe slowly, enunciate and occasionally let your words linger.
2. About an inch below your crycothyroid, pinch your trachea medially and hold it for 5 or 10 seconds. If you cough, you are doing it right.
3. Stop smoking.

[Moma]

(07-19-2011 03:39 AM)Feo Wrote:  

Two things for working on your voice.

1. Be more calm. Breathe slowly, enunciate and occasionally let your words linger.
2. About an inch below your crycothyroid, pinch your trachea medially and hold it for 5 or 10 seconds. If you cough, you are doing it right.
3. Stop smoking.

It's funny but guys I knew who smoked cess usually had that rough voice which sounds manly. Women may not be as turned on by men with squeaky or feminine voices i.e. the dude from I love you Man, the one who went with the main protagonist to the LA Galaxy football (soccer) match. His voice was fcuking annoying..

Now if one's voice sounds like one of those WWF (WCW) wrestlers, Vin Diesel or DMX's rap voice, I can't see it hampering your effect on the women.

[wi30]

I got a friend from Toronto who has the highest and squeakiest voice I've ever heard. He looks and talks exactly like the Canadian from the movie Grown Up's. Somehow it doesn't hurt him though because he is always with hot girls.

I think voice is far from a deal breaker, but having a deep manly one definitely can't hurt.

[Blackhawk]

Princess Diana started out with a squeaky high voice that people thought was ridiculous. It was weekly work with diction teachers until she lowered her voice tone, changed her accent to something more upperclass, and learned to speak more slowly and with more annunciation.

Changing your voice isn't hard. Actors do it all the time for different roles,people do it when they move between different areas. Projection, resonance, proper placement and support, these all come with practice until they're ingrained in you as muscle memory. What is hard is describing how to do it in words. Modelling others' voices while working with a recorder and listening to your results works far better than verbal technique instruction.

Putting off approaching women until you have a perfect voice sounds to me like yet another reason to stall on going out and approaching.

[Spike]

James Earl Jones
Liam Neeson
Morgan Freeman

Would be awesome to sound like one of these guys.

[Stitch]

Accent collection can be fun too. I will say that the English accent I picked up overseas combined with a resonant cultured voice has been very effective in breaking the ice over here (likewise in England I could get lots of laughter imitating my Southern relatives). Sure, you lose a bit when they find out I'm "just" from the midwest, but it makes for good stories and is an obvious hook for telling them.

[stein]

This is right on. Accents from most western cultures are intriguing. When a woman is intrigued by your voice, it touches something quite deep within her psyche - girls who wouldn't otherwise give me time of the day have abandoned their friends, drinks, plans, birthdays and scurried over because my accent reminded them of their motherland or grandpa, or a dying DiCaprio in Blood Diamond. The fact that I'm not a westerner, only adds fuel to the fire.

It's a very strong hook, but it requires practice and polish. My tongue eventually tires and blows my cover. Lesson: have a back story about picking up the accent like the above poster stated.

Back to the cultivation of deep, flutter-inducing baritones. I record my voice often using a recorder and see plenty of room to improve. Public speaking (e.g: toastmasters) can help you be a confident speaker, but might not improve the quality of your voice. And going to a voice coach, or therapist sounds a bit overwhelming since I don't sing or anything. Any self-help type exercises that anyone can suggest?

[Princeton]

Keep in mind that it's all about optimizing the resonance for the voice you've got. You shouldn't be trying to talk like James Earl Jones if your voice is naturally higher - it will hurt your vocal chords and you'll sound like you're trying to talk "low" which makes you sound insecure. You have to find where your voice naturally wants to be and make sure you're using it correctly - making it loud, forceful and resonant.

A big part of it is also slowing down the pace at which you speak. Most people talk way too fast. In my opinion, talking fast makes you seem less confident - it's as though you're rushing to get out what you want to say because you're afraid people will stop listening. People who talk slowly and deliberately give off a confidence that says "what I'm saying is interesting and I know you're going to hear me out."

You might want to listen to the pace at which hypnotists talk. They create a sense of steadiness and being in control just in their pacing.

[ANACONDA]

calm,slow and deep voice attracts women.

e.g Vin diesel voice.

[Blackhawk]

No one does the trans-atlantic accent anymore. Her version of Seattle accent is more just standard-media accent for America ie the midwest accent away from Chicago, supposedly based on samples from around Centropolis, KS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UgpfSp2t...ature=fvwp

[Samseau]

it is definately possible to gain a loader voice. you can read stories of old roman war generals who were capable of being heard across battlefields, or opera singers that can be heard clearly across football fields.


when I first started to club, it was very hard for me to talk there... now I can do it no problems. still more of a challenge to hear what she says than it is to be heard.


your diaphram, like any other muscle, can be strengthened over time. just keep exercise it.

[Tuthmosis]

(07-19-2011 02:10 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

Can you elaborate as to the difference, and how to identify each? I actually have a relative who's a speech therapist, and I had a free consultation with her way back, and we just talked about why I had a quiet voice, growing up. Basically psychobabble BS. My sister is one too, but she doesn't know **** about resonance, and acts as if I made up the whole concept out of thin air.

Also, I see you Tuth and Amour Fou continue taking lessons, and have heard this from others - are you still experiencing improvements from lessons years later, is it a maintenance thing, or what? I figured I'd take lessons for a month or few, and be done with it, but I'm open-minded.

I'm not really sure how to officially differentiate between the two, but I'm pretty sure speech therapy is one of those areas that has considerable pollution from new-age bullshitter and shysters. I went with someone who works in an actual, reputable hospital. That's your best bet. I didn't need much "therapy" per se, as much as I needed instruction of what I was doing wrong and how to "practice" correctly.

I'll PM you with an additional recommendation.

[Walderschmidt]

Tuthmosis, would you PM me a recommendation as well?

Wald

[Blackhawk]

The classic book is Lilli Lehmann. It's out of copyright, and there's a free copy off of project gutenberg (Get the one with images).

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/19116

I'll warn you, it gets technical rather quickly, since her goal is a physiological, scientific explanation of "resonance" "placement" "open" "covered" "dark" "nasal" and all the other indefinite terms still generally used today. Her focus is on singing but the physiology is the same for speaking as well.

The first problem with improving your voice is that improving your bicep is easy --it's there on your arm, you can plainly see when it's flexed or not. All the muscles involved with singing are internal, hidden underneath bones, deep in the center of the body, and can't be seen. Is your palate lifted or not? Without an X-ray machine, you can't see. It's a process of learning all these hidden muscles deep within you, and it takes time to become aware of them, feel them, and consciously control them. Because just like any other muscle exercise, it's all done by feel.

The second problem is the very production of sound removes your ability to hear it. You're too in the middle of it, and the sounds from your mouth, nose, and nasal resonance cavity overwhelms your own ears ability to hear how it sounds from the outside. Is the palate lifted the right amount? Is the placement correct? Without someone listening to you from outside your head or using a tape recorder, you can't hear. You do learn how good voice feels. It sounds very different inside your body where you make it than it does outside where people hear it. You can not trust your own ears. Beginners who try to go by what sounds good to themself always end up with "internal focused head voice". All their voice gets focused at their own inner ear canal, and never leaves their head. They sound great to themselves. To everyone outside, they sound like they've got a permanent head cold.

Improving your voice will maybe make a 5% difference in your approach rate success. Plus it's fun. But don't procrastinate from doing approaches while you work on voice.