[frozen-ace]

Do you guys have any advice / insight when considering forming/ joining a partnership? Anything I should consider or watch out for?? I believe it will be an LLC (taxed as partnership, not a Corp but need to confirm that).

I had some acquaintances (no family or friends) reach out to me to see if I was interested in joining their startup. I would have to buy in and it would be a minority share. It is very risky, but if it takes off the sky is the limit. I will keep working my day job and work on the startup on weekends / evenings.

This is all new to me. Should there be something about right of first refusal if someone wants to exit the partnership/ sell their ownership? What about adding new partners? What happens to ownership if the main partner dies, does his ownership goes to his heirs (and then they own majority stake)?? What have you guys seen and experienced in this area?

[Suits]

(04-10-2016 03:16 AM)frozen-ace Wrote:  

This is all new to me. Should there be something about right of first refusal if someone wants to exit the partnership/ sell their ownership? What about adding new partners? What happens to ownership if the main partner dies, does his ownership goes to his heirs (and then they own majority stake)?? What have you guys seen and experienced in this area?

These would all be excellent questions to ask your prospective new partners.

[TheFinalEpic]

I can see both sides of the woman argument when building a business and believe it comes down to the individual. For me personally, if I didn't have my current girl, I would be unfocused and continually seeking pussy. The ability to know that there's somebody there at the end of the day (whether it was a solid or terrible day) allows me to take the risks, make the decisions and strive for more.

[H1N1]

(04-10-2016 03:16 AM)frozen-ace Wrote:  

Do you guys have any advice / insight when considering forming/ joining a partnership? Anything I should consider or watch out for?? I believe it will be an LLC (taxed as partnership, not a Corp but need to confirm that).

I had some acquaintances (no family or friends) reach out to me to see if I was interested in joining their startup. I would have to buy in and it would be a minority share. It is very risky, but if it takes off the sky is the limit. I will keep working my day job and work on the startup on weekends / evenings.

This is all new to me. Should there be something about right of first refusal if someone wants to exit the partnership/ sell their ownership? What about adding new partners? What happens to ownership if the main partner dies, does his ownership goes to his heirs (and then they own majority stake)?? What have you guys seen and experienced in this area?

Be very careful. As a minority shareholder in a private company you have no say over the direction of the company beyond your role as an employee. If you have money invested, and are taking a big risk, then you have to be sure the rewards are there for you.

I would also advise a directors agreement for how any disputes will be solved and what will happen to your money if you are dismissed by the shareholders. Settle on how it'll be resolved in the event of unpleasantness or terminal disagreement before you go into any partnership, then you can have no complaints or ill feeling should such a time come. Plan meticulously for how things will be done in the worst of times now. It is easy to be friendly and good partners in the good times. You see many different sides to people when the pressure goes through the roof, or the world seems to be falling apart around you. Not everyone can handle these pressures well, and if you are running a company you are likely to experience more of this than you'd like.

[Off The Reservation]

(04-10-2016 10:15 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

You see many different sides to people when the pressure goes through the roof, or the world seems to be falling apart around you. Not everyone can handle these pressures well, and if you are running a company you are likely to experience more of this than you'd like.

This is a REALLY smart statement. No one ever gets this or understands unless they are very observant, non emotional, and can see what is happening in little steps as if they are watching themselves and others in slow motion while this is happening. However H1N1 has given frozen-ace and the other readers a little insight that may have simply been lip read over and not noticed for the profound observation that it is.

To the one who asked, imagine the absolute worst business behavior you can and things not going well. If you have a little voice saying "they would never do that to me" think again. You just don't know how someone will behave until you have been through it. I second the notion not to put money into something you do not fully understand.

A related point, deviating from the question and H1N1s brilliant little sentence, is that all high value deals, over one million imo, also bring out weird "behaviors" from people on all sides of the deal. I could write a whole post on that alone.

So good luck bro, think through a little more of the "extreme" possibilities before you let go of your money.

[Laner]

(04-10-2016 11:47 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  

(04-10-2016 10:15 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

You see many different sides to people when the pressure goes through the roof, or the world seems to be falling apart around you. Not everyone can handle these pressures well, and if you are running a company you are likely to experience more of this than you'd like.

This is a REALLY smart statement. No one ever gets this or understands unless they are very observant, non emotional, and can see what is happening in little steps as if they are watching themselves and others in slow motion while this is happening. However H1N1 has given frozen-ace and the other readers a little insight that may have simply been lip read over and not noticed for the profound observation that it is.

To the one who asked, imagine the absolute worst business behavior you can and things not going well. If you have a little voice saying "they would never do that to me" think again. You just don't know how someone will behave until you have been through it. I second the notion not to put money into something you do not fully understand.

A related point, deviating from the question and H1N1s brilliant little sentence, is that all high value deals, over one million imo, also bring out weird "behaviors" from people on all sides of the deal. I could write a whole post on that alone.

So good luck bro, think through a little more of the "extreme" possibilities before you let go of your money.

Excellent posts.

Some guys become entrepreneurs through ideas and timing. They ride the success of their first and only venture until retirement. By definition they are of course entrepreneurs.

But many of these guys, if their business fails, then they are going back into their previous field of work. The idea of being crushed and starting over is just too much for most people to handle. Failure is seen as a blow to the ego and they take it too personal.

This is the context that I took from the above post. When shit gets real, the guys that panic and blame and start unraveling are going to be this type of person. The ones that buckle down and line up the endgame to get out of the shit are the ones with the mindset or experience or both.

Working for equity in a start up is one thing. Paying money to get involved in a startup is investing. Doing both, make sure its a damn good idea that you could be in 110%.

Also, pay attention to the advice above. Solid.

[Peregrine]

(04-10-2016 03:16 AM)frozen-ace Wrote:  

Do you guys have any advice / insight when considering forming/ joining a partnership? Anything I should consider or watch out for?? I believe it will be an LLC (taxed as partnership, not a Corp but need to confirm that).

I had some acquaintances (no family or friends) reach out to me to see if I was interested in joining their startup. I would have to buy in and it would be a minority share. It is very risky, but if it takes off the sky is the limit. I will keep working my day job and work on the startup on weekends / evenings.

This is all new to me. Should there be something about right of first refusal if someone wants to exit the partnership/ sell their ownership? What about adding new partners? What happens to ownership if the main partner dies, does his ownership goes to his heirs (and then they own majority stake)?? What have you guys seen and experienced in this area?

Ask about vesting. Ask about their motivations for the startup (if the answer is money, do they want a fast exit or is this a long term play?). Ask about what they think you can bring to the table that they can't pay for elsewhere.

[Saweeep]

That sounds like a mine field...one where just about a billion things could potentially go wrong.

Don't get blinded by the potential upside (every business has unlimited upside on paper) and go in with your eyes open.

As Peregrine says above, the big thing I would be asking myself if I were you is "Why me?".

Watch your back, Jack.

[Off The Reservation]

(04-10-2016 03:16 AM)frozen-ace Wrote:  

It is very risky, but if it takes off the sky is the limit.

... if someone wants to exit the partnership/ sell their ownership?

I re-read your post and the replies after finishing up with a two hour conversation with a friend asking me a similar question.

This quote of yours tells me there is nothing to sell (maybe there will be later i pretty please hope?)

I am 99% certain you are "buying" something with no value. eg you are buying x shares for $50,000 which are actually worth zero.

How do I know this not knowing you and not knowing shit about your venture?

Experience, and your words. You should buy at present value and sell at future value. Instead it sounds like you are buying at future (hopeful) value and you will end up selling at today's present value, zero or a loss.

Should I also throw out a guess at the present revenue of this thing?

I have a lot of respect for you for asking. Says you want to know and you want to learn. (You will still learn when all the money disappears but this is easier.)

[Peregrine]

(04-10-2016 01:37 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

I have a lot of respect for you for asking. Says you want to know and you want to learn. (You will still learn when all the money disappears but this is easier.)

"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." - Will Rogers

Full disclosure, I've been all three kinds of man at least once.

[Suits]

(04-10-2016 11:47 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  

...all high value deals, over one million imo, also bring out weird "behaviors" from people on all sides of the deal. I could write a whole post on that alone.

Please do.

[fortysix]

(04-10-2016 03:16 AM)frozen-ace Wrote:  

Do you guys have any advice / insight when considering forming/ joining a partnership? Anything I should consider or watch out for?? I believe it will be an LLC (taxed as partnership, not a Corp but need to confirm that).

I had some acquaintances (no family or friends) reach out to me to see if I was interested in joining their startup. I would have to buy in and it would be a minority share. It is very risky, but if it takes off the sky is the limit. I will keep working my day job and work on the startup on weekends / evenings.

This is all new to me. Should there be something about right of first refusal if someone wants to exit the partnership/ sell their ownership? What about adding new partners? What happens to ownership if the main partner dies, does his ownership goes to his heirs (and then they own majority stake)?? What have you guys seen and experienced in this area?

1. Make sure you get all the information regarding the entity structure of the business that you are partnering with. If its an LLC taxed as a partnership (or any form of LLC, for that matter, including an LLC taxed as a corporation), then it will have an operating agreement that will set forth the internal governance of the Company. Make sure you get a copy of this agreement and conduct a preliminary review to determine the following:

a. see how the income of the business is distributed (does distribution follow ownership? So for instance, is a 25% owner entitled to 25% of distributions?) When are distributions made? Who has authority to make distributions? Who decides if company should distribute profit or re-invest? How is this decision made? Think about whether you have any problems with this issue.

b. What are the roles of the parties involved? Is there a CEO? Is there a manager? who has the authority to make major decisions?

c. How are major decisions regarding the direction of the company made (including the hiring of new employees / the payment of salaries / etc? What are the voting requirements? What % equity do you need to vote - you are buying a stake in the company but what if your partners make bullshit decisions and you have no say? maybe negotiate for a lower $ investment for the same stake?

d. Are there different levels of ownership? (like preferred LLC units with superior rights?)

Keeping note of the above, make sure that you understand the % of the Company that you will own, and what effect that ownership will have on your ability to vote.

In the case there is no operating agreement, or the agreement doesn't address the issues above, you need to bring this up - this means the parties are not very sophisticated in regard to business. Theoretically, this may be a good or bad thing. For instance, if they are very good at what they do (they are technical founders), then the startup could still be very successful, now is the chance to exercise yoursignificant bargaining advantage and say in drafting an operating agreement that could be to your benefit. However, if these are just straight business guys (without some kind of technical background), then I think they don't have much experience and maybe the business may not be worth your investment.

2. Generally if its a traditional startup which will be offering equity and seeking investment, then you generally need to be organized as a corporation (big-time institutional investors don't invest into LLCs due to tax issues), usually in Delaware. If thats the case, you need to make sure there is a shareholders agreement which outlines the relationship of the owners of the corporation. The shareholders agreement is different in form from the operating agreement, but it generally addresses the same issues - look at point #1 above to see what to look for.

3. Yes there should definitely be a right of first refusal, and similar provisions- if someone decides to sell their equity, there should first be an offer for the company to buy out that interest, and if the company refuses, an offer for the remaining equity holders to purchase a pro rata share of that interest. Only then, whatever remains, can it be sold to the intended party.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-10-2016 03:16 AM)frozen-ace Wrote:  

Do you guys have any advice / insight when considering forming/ joining a partnership? Anything I should consider or watch out for?? I believe it will be an LLC (taxed as partnership, not a Corp but need to confirm that).

I had some acquaintances (no family or friends) reach out to me to see if I was interested in joining their startup. I would have to buy in and it would be a minority share. It is very risky, but if it takes off the sky is the limit. I will keep working my day job and work on the startup on weekends / evenings.

This is all new to me. Should there be something about right of first refusal if someone wants to exit the partnership/ sell their ownership? What about adding new partners? What happens to ownership if the main partner dies, does his ownership goes to his heirs (and then they own majority stake)?? What have you guys seen and experienced in this area?

Does anyone involved have a proven track record for starting, building, growing and even selling a business/company? If not then without knowing a thing about this venture I'd have to recommend not doing it.


If your acquaintances are serious about this venture then do they have a well defined business plan (BP)? Marketing plan? Executive Summary? If they did then most of your questions would be answered. If they don't then the first person they should be adding to the team is someone who can at least provide some guidance on getting that done. No savvy investor would give a dime to any entrepreneur without a BP

Great business ideas are a dime a dozen. New business ideas executed well are rare indeed.

Not trying to be a negative Nelly...just trying to provide a bit of basic illumination should you choose to walk this path.

[Peregrine]

Question for the crowd: focus on one startup at a time or have multiple irons in the fire?

[Suits]

(04-11-2016 12:31 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Question for the crowd: focus on one startup at a time or have multiple irons in the fire?

I don't have time for even one startup.

I'd like to meet the man who does.

[fortysix]

^Elon Musk was/is ceo of two cos, so it can be done, if they are in different stages of development,maybe.

[H1N1]

(04-11-2016 12:31 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Question for the crowd: focus on one startup at a time or have multiple irons in the fire?

It depends on what you consider a startup. Round this part of the internet every kid with an ebook idea or a web-based affiliate program is an entrepreneur. What sort of project you're talking about will dictate the extent to which you are juggling multiple things.

That said, my view is that you should pick something, one thing, and do it well. Multiple projects means multiple distractions, and compound interest on your stresses and problems, of which there will be many in the startup phase. If this is a 'side hustle' thing, then it probably isn't earning enough, innovative enough, or competitive enough to really give you the opportunity to experience the kind of chaos and uncertainty that comes with building a proper business. If you are part time, then you simply do not have enough skin in the game to really experience that many stresses or difficulties, and so you can probably afford to take on more projects at a similar phase, and discard the ones that show themselves not to provide a sufficient return on time invested.

However, if you are trying to build a 'proper' business, a bricks and mortar sort of business, then you cannot afford to take your eye off the ball. If you have thrown yourself at an idea, full time, and are dependent upon its success for your financial well being, then you need a lazer-like focus on pushing that product for all it's worth. You also need any time off to be completely off and yours to do what you want with.

[Saweeep]

(04-11-2016 08:13 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 12:31 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Question for the crowd: focus on one startup at a time or have multiple irons in the fire?

It depends on what you consider a startup. Round this part of the internet every kid with an ebook idea or a web-based affiliate program is an entrepreneur. What sort of project you're talking about will dictate the extent to which you are juggling multiple things.

That said, my view is that you should pick something, one thing, and do it well. Multiple projects means multiple distractions, and compound interest on your stresses and problems, of which there will be many in the startup phase. If this is a 'side hustle' thing, then it probably isn't earning enough, innovative enough, or competitive enough to really give you the opportunity to experience the kind of chaos and uncertainty that comes with building a proper business. If you are part time, then you simply do not have enough skin in the game to really experience that many stresses or difficulties, and so you can probably afford to take on more projects at a similar phase, and discard the ones that show themselves not to provide a sufficient return on time invested.

However, if you are trying to build a 'proper' business, a bricks and mortar sort of business, then you cannot afford to take your eye off the ball. If you have thrown yourself at an idea, full time, and are dependent upon its success for your financial well being, then you need a lazer-like focus on pushing that product for all it's worth. You also need any time off to be completely off and yours to do what you want with.

I wold agree with this wholeheartedly. At least for the first few years (after which no business is really a start up).

I'm at the stage now with my business where I have it cracked and it is expanding almost automatically. All the heavy thinking is done, a hard week for me is now 10 hours...and I am bored.

Out of my mind.

I am now a businessman, not an entrepreneur. This is not what I want to do with my life.

I need a new challenge before I subconsciously decide to burn it to the ground for the thrill of doing it all again.

Be careful what you wish for!!

[PapayaTapper]

(04-11-2016 01:48 AM)se7en Wrote:  

^Elon Musk was/is ceo of two cos, so it can be done, if they are in different stages of development,maybe.

It can be done if the guy himself is at a different stage of development. Musk is a master of delegation. But he also already had multiple successes and could afford the luxury of building the best possible management team from the get go

For the average entrepreneur trying to build a real business from scratch, most often he will need to live, breath, eat, sleep, dream, that one venture for as long as it takes to really get established

[PapayaTapper]

(04-11-2016 08:58 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 08:13 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 12:31 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Question for the crowd: focus on one startup at a time or have multiple irons in the fire?

It depends on what you consider a startup. Round this part of the internet every kid with an ebook idea or a web-based affiliate program is an entrepreneur. What sort of project you're talking about will dictate the extent to which you are juggling multiple things.

That said, my view is that you should pick something, one thing, and do it well. Multiple projects means multiple distractions, and compound interest on your stresses and problems, of which there will be many in the startup phase. If this is a 'side hustle' thing, then it probably isn't earning enough, innovative enough, or competitive enough to really give you the opportunity to experience the kind of chaos and uncertainty that comes with building a proper business. If you are part time, then you simply do not have enough skin in the game to really experience that many stresses or difficulties, and so you can probably afford to take on more projects at a similar phase, and discard the ones that show themselves not to provide a sufficient return on time invested.

However, if you are trying to build a 'proper' business, a bricks and mortar sort of business, then you cannot afford to take your eye off the ball. If you have thrown yourself at an idea, full time, and are dependent upon its success for your financial well being, then you need a lazer-like focus on pushing that product for all it's worth. You also need any time off to be completely off and yours to do what you want with.

I wold agree with this wholeheartedly. At least for the first few years (after which no business is really a start up).

I'm at the stage now with my business where I have it cracked and it is expanding almost automatically. All the heavy thinking is done, a hard week for me is now 10 hours...and I am bored.

Out of my mind.

I am now a businessman, not an entrepreneur. This is not what I want to do with my life.

I need a new challenge before I subconsciously decide to burn it to the ground for the thrill of doing it all again.

Be careful what you wish for!!

Why don't you sell it and do something else?

[Laner]

(04-11-2016 08:13 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 12:31 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Question for the crowd: focus on one startup at a time or have multiple irons in the fire?

It depends on what you consider a startup. Round this part of the internet every kid with an ebook idea or a web-based affiliate program is an entrepreneur. What sort of project you're talking about will dictate the extent to which you are juggling multiple things.

That said, my view is that you should pick something, one thing, and do it well. Multiple projects means multiple distractions, and compound interest on your stresses and problems, of which there will be many in the startup phase. If this is a 'side hustle' thing, then it probably isn't earning enough, innovative enough, or competitive enough to really give you the opportunity to experience the kind of chaos and uncertainty that comes with building a proper business. If you are part time, then you simply do not have enough skin in the game to really experience that many stresses or difficulties, and so you can probably afford to take on more projects at a similar phase, and discard the ones that show themselves not to provide a sufficient return on time invested.

However, if you are trying to build a 'proper' business, a bricks and mortar sort of business, then you cannot afford to take your eye off the ball. If you have thrown yourself at an idea, full time, and are dependent upon its success for your financial well being, then you need a lazer-like focus on pushing that product for all it's worth. You also need any time off to be completely off and yours to do what you want with.

I have three businesses on the go, each at a slightly different stage of time. One has been a hard sell actually, and it was due to a partner stealing all our cash that I came to do this on my own. I could use help, but I am fed up with partners for a while. This was two years ago. My two latest are in the sales and clients stages. The prototyping and business plans are done and now things just need to get out there.

I hear you about focusing on just one, but the world never works in ways I can predict. My one business is taking off now, and I had thought all along that this one would have been the slow earner. I had it on the back burner since last autumn when the prototypes were done. Now its 80% of my focus.

I need to make a solid plan of either partnering or selling or backburnering the weakest business. You are right, its best to focus on one (or two) businesses especially at the beginning stages.

[Saweeep]

(04-11-2016 09:48 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 08:58 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 08:13 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 12:31 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Question for the crowd: focus on one startup at a time or have multiple irons in the fire?

It depends on what you consider a startup. Round this part of the internet every kid with an ebook idea or a web-based affiliate program is an entrepreneur. What sort of project you're talking about will dictate the extent to which you are juggling multiple things.

That said, my view is that you should pick something, one thing, and do it well. Multiple projects means multiple distractions, and compound interest on your stresses and problems, of which there will be many in the startup phase. If this is a 'side hustle' thing, then it probably isn't earning enough, innovative enough, or competitive enough to really give you the opportunity to experience the kind of chaos and uncertainty that comes with building a proper business. If you are part time, then you simply do not have enough skin in the game to really experience that many stresses or difficulties, and so you can probably afford to take on more projects at a similar phase, and discard the ones that show themselves not to provide a sufficient return on time invested.

However, if you are trying to build a 'proper' business, a bricks and mortar sort of business, then you cannot afford to take your eye off the ball. If you have thrown yourself at an idea, full time, and are dependent upon its success for your financial well being, then you need a lazer-like focus on pushing that product for all it's worth. You also need any time off to be completely off and yours to do what you want with.

I wold agree with this wholeheartedly. At least for the first few years (after which no business is really a start up).

I'm at the stage now with my business where I have it cracked and it is expanding almost automatically. All the heavy thinking is done, a hard week for me is now 10 hours...and I am bored.

Out of my mind.

I am now a businessman, not an entrepreneur. This is not what I want to do with my life.

I need a new challenge before I subconsciously decide to burn it to the ground for the thrill of doing it all again.

Be careful what you wish for!!

Why don't you sell it and do something else?

It's complicated.

The thing is that I have no need or even desire to actually sell, even if a potential buyer existed, which I doubt.

I have the time to start another business right now but I'm not sure which of a few ideas to pursue. I've also considered doing a master's degree in ancient history or something academically satisfying but I suspect a rigid programme is not really for me; my tastes are eclectic and my distaste for authority unyielding (need to grow up hah).

I'll be honest, the last few months I've started to get really itchy feet; I'm at my happiest and most fulfilled putting out fires and solving problems...I'm genuinely concerned that if I don't find something soon I will start creating problems in order to solve them as they crop up with ever decreasing frequency.

I'm still searching for something, other than running off to Thailand to train, that truly satisfies me on a deep level.

More money more problems.

[H1N1]

(04-11-2016 10:58 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 09:48 AM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 08:58 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 08:13 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 12:31 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Question for the crowd: focus on one startup at a time or have multiple irons in the fire?

It depends on what you consider a startup. Round this part of the internet every kid with an ebook idea or a web-based affiliate program is an entrepreneur. What sort of project you're talking about will dictate the extent to which you are juggling multiple things.

That said, my view is that you should pick something, one thing, and do it well. Multiple projects means multiple distractions, and compound interest on your stresses and problems, of which there will be many in the startup phase. If this is a 'side hustle' thing, then it probably isn't earning enough, innovative enough, or competitive enough to really give you the opportunity to experience the kind of chaos and uncertainty that comes with building a proper business. If you are part time, then you simply do not have enough skin in the game to really experience that many stresses or difficulties, and so you can probably afford to take on more projects at a similar phase, and discard the ones that show themselves not to provide a sufficient return on time invested.

However, if you are trying to build a 'proper' business, a bricks and mortar sort of business, then you cannot afford to take your eye off the ball. If you have thrown yourself at an idea, full time, and are dependent upon its success for your financial well being, then you need a lazer-like focus on pushing that product for all it's worth. You also need any time off to be completely off and yours to do what you want with.

I wold agree with this wholeheartedly. At least for the first few years (after which no business is really a start up).

I'm at the stage now with my business where I have it cracked and it is expanding almost automatically. All the heavy thinking is done, a hard week for me is now 10 hours...and I am bored.

Out of my mind.

I am now a businessman, not an entrepreneur. This is not what I want to do with my life.

I need a new challenge before I subconsciously decide to burn it to the ground for the thrill of doing it all again.

Be careful what you wish for!!

Why don't you sell it and do something else?

It's complicated.

The thing is that I have no need or even desire to actually sell, even if a potential buyer existed, which I doubt.

I have the time to start another business right now but I'm not sure which of a few ideas to pursue. I've also considered doing a master's degree in ancient history or something academically satisfying but I suspect a rigid programme is not really for me; my tastes are eclectic and my distaste for authority unyielding (need to grow up hah).

I'll be honest, the last few months I've started to get really itchy feet; I'm at my happiest and most fulfilled putting out fires and solving problems...I'm genuinely concerned that if I don't find something soon I will start creating problems in order to solve them as they crop up with ever decreasing frequency.

I'm still searching for something, other than running off to Thailand to train, that truly satisfies me on a deep level.

More money more problems.

I get this completely. I have no real desire to sell my business either, though it may be lucrative. If you have a business generating good money then you are in a fantastic position to take a few calculated risks with disposable income, without too many negatives beyond short term cash loss. I definitely wouldn't sell in your position. You're a smart guy and still young enough to turn your hand to something new, even if it is in an unrelated field. To me, the point you're at now is where you can really kick on from and start taking over the world.

In my (entirely unsolicited) opinion, doing a Masters is a truly horrible idea for a number of reasons:

1. You'll get a better course online from MIT or one of these other amazing places that provides incredible courses for free. I'm just finishing up on a 'Probabilistic Systems Analysis and Applied Probability' course that has been completely fascinating. If you have any maths or science interest then Computer Science is actually extremely accessible (assuming a willingness to Google), requires ZERO programming knowledge, and is endlessly fascinating. On top of that I am certain with your experience you could probably conceive of some technologies that may make a splash in your industry, or indeed solve problems in the world around you. There is so much interest and opportunity in CS that it would potentially satisfy your requirement for academic stimulation and the need to apply your considerable talents to something exciting and innovative.

Here's an MIT entrance level course in Computability etc I did a while ago, in case anyone reading is interested: http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-en...ure-notes/

I have (admittedly very good) GCSEs in maths and science, but went the better part of 8 years just assuming it wasn't for me. As it turns out, now that I'm no longer in school and being asked to jump through hoops, I actually have a natural aptitude for this sort of thing. You may well find the same is true for you.

2. You will strangle some nerd and get expelled.

Assuming you are interested in being (initially at least) a small scale Elon Musk, then as a guy with money, time, experience and intelligence, you have a wonderful opportunity to trawl university departments and find out what people are working on, and see if you can't capitalise.

Anyway, I realise this giant wall of text is a load of unsolicited advice from a child who has not experienced your success. However, I expect to be in a similar position to you in 2 years time, and all I can think about is how many, how exciting, and how varied the opportunities are that exist once you have got the initial business out of the way. It would be a huge shame if, having reached such a point and honed your talents, you let that stagnate and go to waste.

[Saweeep]

^^^

You're too kind mate. I'll reply a little later when not doing two of this week's hours work

[openside]

Anyone have any experience building online sales through Amazon or eBay? I have a couple of small manufacturing businesses in operation with unique product lines and also have a third service industry business that occupies quite a bit of my time. As such, time to devote to the manufacturing businesses is limited. I think there's great potential for the product lines but don't really have to the time to figure out amazon or ebay by trial and error right now. Anyone ever come across companies, resources or consultants even that would assist with product sales through these avenues?