[ScrapperTL]

Rislander said it best "the red pill is tough to swallow"
I have 2 kids, a girl & a boy and feel truly blessed by God to be in a great Marriage.

However, I cannot imagine a world where I could only see my Children 2 days a week or less.

Before I had kids I could easily imagine this, but not now.
The happiness I get from being with them I cannot compare to anything else. Weightlifting, Women, Food, Booze, Cigars, Learning a new skill, Arnold Schwarzenegger movies. All these things come CLOSE, but still second place to hanging with my favorite pals.

I pray it all works out for you brother.
My best advice is to be there for your little buddy or buddette every second you can.

[Aristotle]

lol at all the people saying "it's easy, no problem."

Unless you have had MULTIPLE bastard children with women in MULTIPLE states, and all of them fought you tooth and nail, you know NOTHING about the family court system. A one time personal anecdote in your little local court does NOT make you an expert.

The other exception would be if you are an experienced family court lawyer, and AGAIN, unless you've had experience in MULTIPLE STATES, you have no idea what you're talking about. The policies in family courts vary from State to state, and from County to county, even JUDGE TO JUDGE within the same county.

So please, STOP talking shit to OP like it's black and white. Just because you have daddy issues doesn't give you a right to tell everyone else how they should react to a shit situation.

Relevant to OP:

https://www.netflix.com/us-es/title/70298453

Divorce Corp, documentary on the Family Court system in the US. And yes, it IS rigged.

[Merenguero]

(03-14-2016 12:29 PM)Aristotle Wrote:  

lol at all the people saying "it's easy, no problem."

Unless you have had MULTIPLE bastard children with women in MULTIPLE states, and all of them fought you tooth and nail, you know NOTHING about the family court system. A one time personal anecdote in your little local court does NOT make you an expert.

The other exception would be if you are an experienced family court lawyer, and AGAIN, unless you've had experience in MULTIPLE STATES, you have no idea what you're talking about. The policies in family courts vary from State to state, and from County to county, even JUDGE TO JUDGE within the same county.

So please, STOP talking shit to OP like it's black and white. Just because you have daddy issues doesn't give you a right to tell everyone else how they should react to a shit situation.

Relevant to OP:

https://www.netflix.com/us-es/title/70298453

Divorce Corp, documentary on the Family Court system in the US. And yes, it IS rigged.

What do you recommend that O.P. do? I don't think I read that in your post.

[Aristotle]

(03-14-2016 01:05 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 12:29 PM)Aristotle Wrote:  

lol at all the people saying "it's easy, no problem."

Unless you have had MULTIPLE bastard children with women in MULTIPLE states, and all of them fought you tooth and nail, you know NOTHING about the family court system. A one time personal anecdote in your little local court does NOT make you an expert.

The other exception would be if you are an experienced family court lawyer, and AGAIN, unless you've had experience in MULTIPLE STATES, you have no idea what you're talking about. The policies in family courts vary from State to state, and from County to county, even JUDGE TO JUDGE within the same county.

So please, STOP talking shit to OP like it's black and white. Just because you have daddy issues doesn't give you a right to tell everyone else how they should react to a shit situation.

Relevant to OP:

https://www.netflix.com/us-es/title/70298453

Divorce Corp, documentary on the Family Court system in the US. And yes, it IS rigged.

What do you recommend that O.P. do? I don't think I read that in your post.

I haven't been in his situation, so I abstained from offering direct advice.

I also abstained from issuing judgement. And I offered a relevant documentary on the subject that will help him decide how to proceed, or at least offer more information on one possible avenue.

Personally, I've always believed that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. He's 3 years too late on figuring out what he should do.

[Aristotle]

(03-14-2016 01:05 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

What do you recommend that O.P. do? I don't think I read that in your post.

BTW are you a divorce or family lawyer? What makes you an expert on the subject? I think members would love to see a datasheet if you're as knowledgeable as you seem to be implying.

[Merenguero]

^^^
Yes. You'd go blind reading my posts on the subject since 2012. Enjoy your ban.

[Aristotle]

(03-14-2016 01:15 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

^^^
Yes. You'd go blind reading my posts on the subject since 2012. Enjoy your ban.

The data does not support your hypothesis.

It goes back to what I said earlier: You can't take a single county and judge the country by it.

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/08/15...port-data/

Women are awarded custody 87% of the time.

[Merenguero]

(03-14-2016 02:13 PM)Aristotle Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 01:15 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

^^^
Yes. You'd go blind reading my posts on the subject since 2012. Enjoy your ban.

The data does not support your hypothesis.

It goes back to what I said earlier: You can't take a single county and judge the country by it.

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/08/15...port-data/

Women are awarded custody 87% of the time.

What are you talking about? I don't doubt that 87% statistic for a second. Is there a breakdown of how often women are awarded custody when the case actually goes to trial? Most divorce and/or custody cases are initiated by women. Many, many cases which are initiated by women either end up in default status where the Defendant (father) was served with paperwork and failed to respond or the court allowed alternative service and the father failed to respond. In those cases, a brief hearing is generally held where the Plaintiff (mother) is given an opportunity to present ex parte proof of her case and is generally given what she wants. There are many, many other cases which are initiated by women in which the Defendant (father) answers the Complaint, but then signs a written agreement giving up custody. If you go back to my previous post on this thread, I specifically say "when the case is actually contested." If you are going through a divorce/custody battle and do nothing, you will get screwed. Many, many guys do that due to the emotions which are involved in such a relationship/case, ignorance of the law, and/or lack of finances.

I don't like to constantly repeat myself from thread to thread, but Aristotle wanted me to post a data sheet. If there are serious problems between parents and they continue to reside under the same roof (it happens all the time), then the father, and to a lesser extent, the mother, run a serious risk of getting hit with a Protective Order. The allegations contained in the Protective Order may be real or false. Either way, such an Order can have the effect of one of the parties being ordered to vacate his or her residence and lose at least temporary custody of the child, have to pay temporary support, and in some cases, even have to continue to pay for the residence which he or she was ordered to vacate. Almost every time when there are serious problems between the parents, one parent files a Petition for a Protective Order against the other, using such an Order as a sword, rather than a shield. I tell people who are in such a situation that as far as chances of being awarded custody, that the worst thing you can do is voluntarily leave the residence without the child. This isn't fatal as far as a custody case goes, but can seriously hurt you as the court could consider it a voluntary abandonment of the child. The second worse is having the court order you out with a Protective Order. The difference between these two scenarios is that when the court orders you out, you are not voluntarily abandoning the child. The bad part about the Protective Order is that the court will probably include temporary custody as one of the provisions. This puts the party who obtains the Protective Order in a great position to be awarded custody on a more long term basis. It has been my experience, and people on here have debated this in the past with me, that leaving the home with the child is better, maybe much better, than the other two scenarios. If you do that, the other parent may file some kind of emergency petition to have the child returned to the home, but where I am, unless there is some serious danger to the child, the court will not normally step in at that point.

If you get your own place and are seeking custody, it is important to have pictures of where the child will sleep when he is in your care in custody. I also like to have witnesses who are familiar with your residence and who can testify that it is an adequate place for the child to live. Know your child's school, his teachers, his doctors, and his dentist. Have someone in place to take care of the child in your absence, preferably a family member or friend who the child already knows. Have this person or persons appear in court to testify on your behalf. If the child is not living with you, do your research as to what school the child will attend, how he will get to school, and how he will get home from school, and be able to testify as to all of this. Have witnesses who are very familiar with you and with your child who can testify as to your fitness. If you are claiming that the other party is unfit, have witnesses who can testify as to her unfitness.

[Onto]

^ Thanks for that great post Merenguero. Though I've never been in that situation, if I were, it's solid advice I certainly would not have thought of on my own if I were.

For me, the Mother and I were at odds even before she got pregnant so we were never living together, etc. My lawyer (a man) told me that trying to get physical custody would be very expensive and more than likely not go in my favor, based on his experience. When I got a second opinion the first thing the lawyer asked, "Do you have $100,000?" As a kid fresh out of college I had a few hundred bucks.

Seven years later the recession hit, I lost my job and filed with the court to have my huge child support payment reduced. Judge ruled against me and I had to keep paying as if I had a $100k/year job, even though I was already unemployed for 6 months at that point and the Unemployment benefits tapped out. Also had to pay back support from the time of the filing plus her lawyers fees for "defending" herself (over 10k) which I had to take out a loan to pay so I wouldn't be thrown in jail. I suppose I could've appealed it, but where would I get the money for that? Paying for your own lawyer is expensive, but having to pay for hers too? It just seems grossly injustice, if not perverse to be forced to pay for a lawyer to fight against you, and that's even before there's a final ruling!

I had to move far away to another city just to get a job to pay the support so I wouldn't be thrown in jail. Of course I couldn't see my Son anymore like I had been for the previous 7 years, and his Mother made use of the opportunity to drive a wedge between us. Wouldn't let him come visit me, talk to me, the whole nine yards. It was hard on both him and I.

So you see, I don't really believe in the system. It may work for some people, but it didn't for me. Maybe I just had bad luck with the lawyers and judges I had. I don't know.

[AccF428]

I think after taking into consideration all the advice here, and mulling it over and speaking to the ex today, I've come to the following conclusion:

I'm going to wait until my son is 10+ years old before establishing a relationship with him. She's insistent on giving me holidays and summers only, where as I accepted that under the condition that we rotate once he becomes an adolescent, where she would later be subject to holidays and summers only. That proposal was rejected. Anything less than that is in my eyes her asserting what she believes is right, and is in my eyes an assertion of her authority over the future of our son, and a marginalization of my role. In the mean time, I will bide my time, establish myself, and prepare to change the tables once later contact is established, and the circumstances explained to my son who will at that time have a mind of his own. In doing so, I will keep the courts out for now, and when the time is right, involve them when the time is right and hopefully with the influence of my son's input into his future. The only problem that I see are that by standing on these principles, I risk appearing to be the villain in this case, and may risk damaging my son emotionally/psychologically. On the other hand, I'm not sure I have the emotional tenacity to deal with all of the drama that any alternatives could contain were I to be placed in a marginalized role while trying to establish my career.

This is my reasoning. Any thoughts?

[Merenguero]

(03-14-2016 08:28 PM)AccF428 Wrote:  

I think after taking into consideration all the advice here, and mulling it over and speaking to the ex today, I've come to the following conclusion:

I'm going to wait until my son is 10+ years old before establishing a relationship with him. She's insistent on giving me holidays and summers only, where as I accepted that under the condition that we rotate once he becomes an adolescent, where she would later be subject to holidays and summers only. That proposal was rejected. Anything less than that is in my eyes her asserting what she believes is right, and is in my eyes an assertion of her authority over the future of our son, and a marginalization of my role. In the mean time, I will bide my time, establish myself, and prepare to change the tables once later contact is established, and the circumstances explained to my son who will at that time have a mind of his own. In doing so, I will keep the courts out for now, and when the time is right, involve them when the time is right and hopefully with the influence of my son's input into his future. The only problem that I see are that by standing on these principles, I risk appearing to be the villain in this case, and may risk damaging my son emotionally/psychologically. On the other hand, I'm not sure I have the emotional tenacity to deal with all of the drama that any alternatives could contain were I to be placed in a marginalized role while trying to establish my career.

This is my reasoning. Any thoughts?

I don't know you, your son, or your son's mother, so give my thoughts whatever weight you want to give them. Staying out of your son's life until he is over ten years old is an absolutely horrible idea. Your son will be without a positive male influence (assuming she doesn't get married to a guy who has his shit together, which is unlikely and that she does not have any close male relatives who have their shit together, which is also unlikely). Doing this could also cause him to harbor some serious resentment toward you. It's not a smart move at all. I actually think that these things need to stay out if the court system. The problem is that they can rarely be resolved without some kind of court intervention. Also, remember this, even if you come to an agreement with her, she is under no court order to let you see or have a relationship with your son and you are under no court order to pay her anything. This is why even in cases where the parties have a good relationship with each other, I recommend that a Complaint for Custody be filed and the parties then enter into a written Consent Order resolving all issues. The benefit there is the agreement is then signed by a judge and both parties are then subject to contempt and enforcement proceedings if they do not do what they agreed to do. Another thing you have to take into consideration is that if you lose custody in the court, you will very likely be hit with more child support than you are presently paying. I say try to work it out with the full understanding that any agreement you reach is not a court order. If that doesn't work, file for custody and child support. If you can afford a lawyer, get one. If you can't, see if legal aid will help you. If they won't, represent yourself and do the best you can. Win or lose, your son will know that you fought for him.

[Onto]

(03-14-2016 08:28 PM)AccF428 Wrote:  

I think after taking into consideration all the advice here, and mulling it over and speaking to the ex today, I've come to the following conclusion:

I'm going to wait until my son is 10+ years old before establishing a relationship with him. She's insistent on giving me holidays and summers only, where as I accepted that under the condition that we rotate once he becomes an adolescent, where she would later be subject to holidays and summers only. That proposal was rejected. Anything less than that is in my eyes her asserting what she believes is right, and is in my eyes an assertion of her authority over the future of our son, and a marginalization of my role. In the mean time, I will bide my time, establish myself, and prepare to change the tables once later contact is established, and the circumstances explained to my son who will at that time have a mind of his own. In doing so, I will keep the courts out for now, and when the time is right, involve them when the time is right and hopefully with the influence of my son's input into his future. The only problem that I see are that by standing on these principles, I risk appearing to be the villain in this case, and may risk damaging my son emotionally/psychologically. On the other hand, I'm not sure I have the emotional tenacity to deal with all of the drama that any alternatives could contain were I to be placed in a marginalized role while trying to establish my career.

This is my reasoning. Any thoughts?

Psychologically, Son's aren't ready to break away from their Mother's until around 13 yrs old or so, but at that point he will be more interested in hanging out with his friends than his parents.

The very best years are right now. In some ways they are more for you than for him because he won't remember them, but you will cherish them for a life time. I guarantee that. The strong bond is formed in the younger years. When I saw my son again when he was 13 yrs old we picked up right where we left off. Our close 7 year history together allowed for that to happen.

As much negativity that was involved in dealing with her, the weekends and holiday's my Son and I had together were precious. It made me grow and I learned alot about both myself, life and the world.

Seems like I'm going back on my earlier statement of not going through it all again if I had the choice. I don't know. There's a price to pay for whatever path you choose. There's no right answer. Take what you want, and then pay the price for it.

If you want to see him 2 1/2 weekends/month, alternate holidays, and a few weeks during the summer then stop paying child support until she agrees. That should wake her up. You said before that you're already giving her 17% of your gross income, though you'd be on the hook for daycare and medical if you went to court. Also automatic upward adjustments and her taking you back to court if she thinks there's money to be had.

She, and everyone else will no doubt cast you as a Villan. Most modern day Single Mother's do this with the Father. Shit, even the Married ones do, and if they don't do it, the media does it for them.

I know my Mother did, but I realized later on that not having my biological Father around wasn't the cause of all the problems in life. How could it be when when we wasn't there to actually cause anything! It was my demonic Mother's craziness that caused all the negativity.

[Merenguero]

^^^
Good post. As far as daycare expenses driving up child support, that varies from state to state. In New York, it's apparently a big deal. It can also screw you where I am. In Nevada, I believe it has absolutely no bearing on the child support amount. Nevada is really favorable to high income guys, maybe the best, and either neutral or unfavorable to everyone else.

I don't know what it is, but every time the subjects of divorce and custody come up, when have all these posters who I have never heard of come out of the woodwork and start spewing negativity all over the place. I understand that some of these posters are guys who have been through divorce and/or custody proceedings, think they got screwed, and have a less then favorable view of the family court system. What I don't understand is the guys who have zero experience with the system coming here acting crazy, disrespectful, and negative. They always show up in these threads for some reason.

[Grodin]

(03-13-2016 02:58 PM)AccF428 Wrote:  

It failed. Three years of my efforts, and fuck ups. She told me a couple of days ago that she's dating now. I'm torn up. I've already without a court order agreed to provide her with 17% of my net income as child support. But I can't be a father to this child beyond that. I can't watch in horror as my son watches his mother gets fucked by dozens of men over the years as she becomes alpha widowed or whatever happens in that situation. I can't be a father to him, knowing that he will be more influenced by her than by me, and may become something that I loathe as I have children with a wife. I can't be a father knowing very well that she can manipulate the circumstances of my relationship with him, and may interfere in the equality of our co-parenting of which she has indicated in the past that it will never be equal. None of the wisdom I've accumulated has helped me in preparation for the complexity of this, the morality of it. I financially provide for him, but our society will look unfavorably upon me for not wanting to be subject to this fuckery. I love this kid, and that's because I was there to raise him initially. That's the problem.

Do you have any advice?

The practical advice has already been covered so I'll leave you with one piece of broad advice:

It's unwise to make life impacting decisions when you are in the midst of emotional turmoil. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to make some decisions, but don't rush decisions that you don't have to. The pain you feel right now is sharp but will be short lived compared to the impacts of this decision.

A good rule of thumb for getting over a serious breakup: for every year you were together it'll take half that long to get over it completely. As a young guy, a year and a half to get over your ex might seem like a long time but your relationship with your son will last a lifetime. Edit: it might take less time since you two were on again off again as long as you make a clean break.

[Tytalus]

(03-14-2016 08:28 PM)AccF428 Wrote:  

I think after taking into consideration all the advice here, and mulling it over and speaking to the ex today, I've come to the following conclusion:

I'm going to wait until my son is 10+ years old before establishing a relationship with him. She's insistent on giving me holidays and summers only, where as I accepted that under the condition that we rotate once he becomes an adolescent, where she would later be subject to holidays and summers only. That proposal was rejected. Anything less than that is in my eyes her asserting what she believes is right, and is in my eyes an assertion of her authority over the future of our son, and a marginalization of my role. In the mean time, I will bide my time, establish myself, and prepare to change the tables once later contact is established, and the circumstances explained to my son who will at that time have a mind of his own. In doing so, I will keep the courts out for now, and when the time is right, involve them when the time is right and hopefully with the influence of my son's input into his future. The only problem that I see are that by standing on these principles, I risk appearing to be the villain in this case, and may risk damaging my son emotionally/psychologically. On the other hand, I'm not sure I have the emotional tenacity to deal with all of the drama that any alternatives could contain were I to be placed in a marginalized role while trying to establish my career.

This is my reasoning. Any thoughts?

As a father of boys, terrible, terrible shit fuck stupid idea.

Stay in his life however you can. Weekends and summer holidays is ideal in your circumstances.

[shy]

This is a hard pill to swallow. I can't really relate to this, since I am probably too young. But I am thankful for evey story like yours, OP. It reminds me to always wrap it up and staying away from booze. I don't know what I would do in your situation, but I think, that you need to get council by a lawyer, get the child support straight and after that, see the child as often as you can. You made a huge mistake with this girl, but now it is to late for regret. As a man you need to embrace the causes of your actions and act upon them. Distance yourself from her bullshit, don't even argue with her, because is pointless to argue logically with a woman. (I am only in my early 20s and have already noticed that.) Try to maximize your influence on the child and ones he turns 18, teach him about the way a man should behave. Stay strong and don't relinquish.

Edit: Maybe I overread it, but how old are you?

[Samseau]

(03-14-2016 08:46 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 08:28 PM)AccF428 Wrote:  

I think after taking into consideration all the advice here, and mulling it over and speaking to the ex today, I've come to the following conclusion:

I'm going to wait until my son is 10+ years old before establishing a relationship with him. She's insistent on giving me holidays and summers only, where as I accepted that under the condition that we rotate once he becomes an adolescent, where she would later be subject to holidays and summers only. That proposal was rejected. Anything less than that is in my eyes her asserting what she believes is right, and is in my eyes an assertion of her authority over the future of our son, and a marginalization of my role. In the mean time, I will bide my time, establish myself, and prepare to change the tables once later contact is established, and the circumstances explained to my son who will at that time have a mind of his own. In doing so, I will keep the courts out for now, and when the time is right, involve them when the time is right and hopefully with the influence of my son's input into his future. The only problem that I see are that by standing on these principles, I risk appearing to be the villain in this case, and may risk damaging my son emotionally/psychologically. On the other hand, I'm not sure I have the emotional tenacity to deal with all of the drama that any alternatives could contain were I to be placed in a marginalized role while trying to establish my career.

This is my reasoning. Any thoughts?

I don't know you, your son, or your son's mother, so give my thoughts whatever weight you want to give them. Staying out of your son's life until he is over ten years old is an absolutely horrible idea. Your son will be without a positive male influence (assuming she doesn't get married to a guy who has his shit together, which is unlikely and that she does not have any close male relatives who have their shit together, which is also unlikely). Doing this could also cause him to harbor some serious resentment toward you. It's not a smart move at all. I actually think that these things need to stay out if the court system. The problem is that they can rarely be resolved without some kind of court intervention. Also, remember this, even if you come to an agreement with her, she is under no court order to let you see or have a relationship with your son and you are under no court order to pay her anything. This is why even in cases where the parties have a good relationship with each other, I recommend that a Complaint for Custody be filed and the parties then enter into a written Consent Order resolving all issues. The benefit there is the agreement is then signed by a judge and both parties are then subject to contempt and enforcement proceedings if they do not do what they agreed to do. Another thing you have to take into consideration is that if you lose custody in the court, you will very likely be hit with more child support than you are presently paying. I say try to work it out with the full understanding that any agreement you reach is not a court order. If that doesn't work, file for custody and child support. If you can afford a lawyer, get one. If you can't, see if legal aid will help you. If they won't, represent yourself and do the best you can. Win or lose, your son will know that you fought for him.

Agreed with Merenguero. You are looking for an easy way out, but instead you'll regret the easy way out for the rest of your life. You need to go to talk with a lawyer and get thing straightened out because your baby-momma isn't trustworthy, and you should spend at LEAST 1 day a week with your son. Anything less and he will at high risk growing into a very fucked kid.

[doodlebug786]

Hi OP, I'm currently going through some similar decisions myself and it does my head in so wish you all the best. I do think not being involved in the kids life till he is 10 is a bad idea for all the reasons the other guys have already mentioned. My eldest son is 12 and although he silently supports me, i don't think he is ready yet to make any bold moves, maybe in a year or two perhaps. I'm saying this because if you think when he reaches age 10 he will sit down and understand your absence I think that is wishful thinking. More likely he will hate you for leaving him with his mum if she does abuse him. perhaps...i do not know.
Anyway great thread, gives me lots to think about myself. thanks guys.

[ScrapperTL]

(03-14-2016 09:23 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 08:28 PM)AccF428 Wrote:  

I think after taking into consideration all the advice here, and mulling it over and speaking to the ex today, I've come to the following conclusion:

I'm going to wait until my son is 10+ years old before establishing a relationship with him. She's insistent on giving me holidays and summers only, where as I accepted that under the condition that we rotate once he becomes an adolescent, where she would later be subject to holidays and summers only. That proposal was rejected. Anything less than that is in my eyes her asserting what she believes is right, and is in my eyes an assertion of her authority over the future of our son, and a marginalization of my role. In the mean time, I will bide my time, establish myself, and prepare to change the tables once later contact is established, and the circumstances explained to my son who will at that time have a mind of his own. In doing so, I will keep the courts out for now, and when the time is right, involve them when the time is right and hopefully with the influence of my son's input into his future. The only problem that I see are that by standing on these principles, I risk appearing to be the villain in this case, and may risk damaging my son emotionally/psychologically. On the other hand, I'm not sure I have the emotional tenacity to deal with all of the drama that any alternatives could contain were I to be placed in a marginalized role while trying to establish my career.

This is my reasoning. Any thoughts?

Psychologically, Son's aren't ready to break away from their Mother's until around 13 yrs old or so, but at that point he will be more interested in hanging out with his friends than his parents.

The very best years are right now. In some ways they are more for you than for him because he won't remember them, but you will cherish them for a life time. I guarantee that. The strong bond is formed in the younger years. When I saw my son again when he was 13 yrs old we picked up right where we left off. Our close 7 year history together allowed for that to happen.

As much negativity that was involved in dealing with her, the weekends and holiday's my Son and I had together were precious. It made me grow and I learned alot about both myself, life and the world.

Seems like I'm going back on my earlier statement of not going through it all again if I had the choice. I don't know. There's a price to pay for whatever path you choose. There's no right answer. Take what you want, and then pay the price for it.

If you want to see him 2 1/2 weekends/month, alternate holidays, and a few weeks during the summer then stop paying child support until she agrees. That should wake her up. You said before that you're already giving her 17% of your gross income, though you'd be on the hook for daycare and medical if you went to court. Also automatic upward adjustments and her taking you back to court if she thinks there's money to be had.

She, and everyone else will no doubt cast you as a Villan. Most modern day Single Mother's do this with the Father. Shit, even the Married ones do, and if they don't do it, the media does it for them.

I know my Mother did, but I realized later on that not having my biological Father around wasn't the cause of all the problems in life. How could it be when when we wasn't there to actually cause anything! It was my demonic Mother's craziness that caused all the negativity.

Some extreme Red Pill truths here in this post Onto.
The best years are now, they will forge you into a whole different level of Masculine man. Until I had kids, I never knew the true meaning of loving something more than myself, willing to "literally" die at the drop of a hat for something if I had to.

I "fantasized" about these notions and "played" around with the idea of these altruistic ideals, but never truly "felt" what it was until I had kids. You will learn this amazing, liberating, ultra masculine, truly patriarchal feeling in the first 3 years of raising your kids.

They fucking worship you, they make a Dogs unconditional love seem weak. They will literally copy every move you make and every word you say. It is pretty hilarious and awe inspiring all at the same time.

Plus they keep you in shape physically and mentally. I play Soccer, Basketball, T-Ball and jump in a Trampoline like 7 days a week cause of these little dudes/dudettes. This is shit I haven't done since I was in highschool and I have to admit, it is a blast getting back into "playing" sports versus just watching them.

Since you are still technically pre-fatherhood, these concepts will be hard to swallow and probably don't hit home at all... YET.

Definitely, like others have mentioned, at the very least, do some reserach & get a great affordable Lawyers # ready and on hand.

Because you will end up using/needing him. (Go with a MALE attorney, preferably one that also has kids - he will actually give a shit about you)

[JayR]

(03-14-2016 12:29 PM)Aristotle Wrote:  

lol at all the people saying "it's easy, no problem."

Unless you have had MULTIPLE bastard children with women in MULTIPLE states, and all of them fought you tooth and nail, you know NOTHING about the family court system. A one time personal anecdote in your little local court does NOT make you an expert.

The other exception would be if you are an experienced family court lawyer, and AGAIN, unless you've had experience in MULTIPLE STATES, you have no idea what you're talking about. The policies in family courts vary from State to state, and from County to county, even JUDGE TO JUDGE within the same county.

So please, STOP talking shit to OP like it's black and white. Just because you have daddy issues doesn't give you a right to tell everyone else how they should react to a shit situation.

Relevant to OP:

https://www.netflix.com/us-es/title/70298453

Divorce Corp, documentary on the Family Court system in the US. And yes, it IS rigged.

I meet all the criteria above, so I guess I'm an expert.

I found myself in the same situation as the OP back in 1995 in California. Raw-dogged a BPD psycho and knocked her up. She didn't tell me about the pregnancy until after I'd dumped her.

There was a day, before my daughter was born, when I looked in the mirror and asked myself, "Are you in? Or are you out?" I knew I could not go through life knowing I had a child out there who would be wondering "where is my Dad?" so I decided I was in.

And when I go in, I go ALL in. Lawyered up and prepared to be a father.

I hit the lottery with my daughter's mother. She suffers from BPD (I didn't know what BPD was at the time, learned about it out later), and she had infinite funds from her family to fight me. This was 1995, pretty much the nadir for father's rights (especially never-married fathers), and I had just relocated from Boston to San Francisco, so I had no support from my family.

When my daughter was 1, Mom moved to Texas with her, over my objections. So, I uprooted and followed her there, found work in Houston, and registered my custody order with Harris County. When my daughter was 4, Mom moved her to San Diego. I uprooted again and moved so I could be near my daughter.

When she realized she couldn't ditch me, mom eventually went scorched earth, pulling every stunt in the book to keep me out of my daughter's life. Visitation interference? Check. Maternal gatekeeping? Check. Parental alienation? Check. Poisoning teachers against me? Check. False allegations of abuse? Check. I spent a night in jail after one such incident.

This is just a taste -- the list of stunts this busybody pulled trying to get me to give up and go away is endless. But with each cross-country move, with each stunt she pulled, my resolve to maintain and protect my daughter's relationship with me only became stronger. Mom wanted the kid and the cash without a meddling father, but she fucked (with) the wrong dude.

The biggest red pill I have ever had to swallow was the anti-father bias in family court (Marin County bad, Harris County terrible, San Diego County the worst). I managed to get the standard every other weekend and Wednesday nights, but the court would do nothing to enforce that order when she interfered with visitation.

As a father, I had to be perfect, or the court would punish me. Meanwhile, Mom's unemployed, getting DUI's, not getting the kid to school, constantly proving herself unfit, and the courts do nothing other than force me to pay her attorney's fees when I ask the court to intervene. Infuriating to the point that I nearly snapped on several occasions.

There were low points when the custody battle got so fierce, the parental alienation so evil (she was recruiting my daughter into the fight), that I considered just giving up and going away, to spare my daughter the trauma. But every book I read on parental alienation said that almost all PA survivors who grow into adults say "I wish my Dad had fought harder, that he didn't give up." So I didn't, and now it is clear to me I did the right thing.

The hell finally ended when my daughter reached 14 and saw her mother for what she was. At 15 she moved in with me and my new wife full time and never went back to her mother's home again (no more CS, YEAH!). She is in college now doing great.

Was it easy? Hell no. There were times when I literally thought I was going insane dealing with the BPD craziness and the unsympathetic/unfair family courts. Was it expensive? Hell yes, I spent hundreds of thousands on attorneys, child support, moving, etc. Fortunately, I was 29 years old in 1995 with a Comp. Sci. degree and could easily find work wherever Mom absconded with my kid, so I had the funds to stay in the fight.

Was it was worth it? Hell yes. I can look myself in the mirror 20 years later and know I did the right thing. People I tell the story say "Wow, that's really impressive you did that, what a stand-up guy you are." No. As far as I'm concerned, I didn't really have a choice. I would have been an empty shell of a man if I abandoned my child. Despite being undermined constantly, I loved being a father, and the experience turned me into a man. And I firmly believe my influence on my daughter saved her from becoming a F-ed up adult like her psycho mother.

I respect any choice you make, AccF428 --only you know your situation and yourself. But if I was in your situation (which I was), I would lawyer up and go for as much custody as you can get. This will minimize CS and any negative maternal influence/alienation, and maximize your positive influence.

Sorry this was so long -- I could literally write a book about my experience, but I think that's been done many times before.

Back to the Trump thread!

[ScrapperTL]

(03-15-2016 12:17 PM)JayR Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 12:29 PM)Aristotle Wrote:  

lol at all the people saying "it's easy, no problem."

Unless you have had MULTIPLE bastard children with women in MULTIPLE states, and all of them fought you tooth and nail, you know NOTHING about the family court system. A one time personal anecdote in your little local court does NOT make you an expert.

The other exception would be if you are an experienced family court lawyer, and AGAIN, unless you've had experience in MULTIPLE STATES, you have no idea what you're talking about. The policies in family courts vary from State to state, and from County to county, even JUDGE TO JUDGE within the same county.

So please, STOP talking shit to OP like it's black and white. Just because you have daddy issues doesn't give you a right to tell everyone else how they should react to a shit situation.

Relevant to OP:

https://www.netflix.com/us-es/title/70298453

Divorce Corp, documentary on the Family Court system in the US. And yes, it IS rigged.

I meet all the criteria above, so I guess I'm an expert.

I found myself in the same situation as the OP back in 1995 in California. Raw-dogged a BPD psycho and knocked her up. She didn't tell me about the pregnancy until after I'd dumped her.

There was a day, before my daughter was born, when I looked at myself in the mirror and asked myself, "Are you in? Or are you out?" I knew I could not go through life knowing I had a child out there who would be wondering "where is my Dad?" so I decided I was in.

And when I go in, I go ALL in. Lawyered up and prepared to be a father.

I hit the lottery with my daughter's mother. She suffers from BPD (I didn't know what BPD was at the time, learned about it out later), and she had infinite funds from her family to fight me. This was 1995, pretty much the nadir for father's rights (especially never-married fathers), and I had just relocated from Boston to San Francisco, so I had no support from my family.

When my daughter was 1, Mom moved to Texas with her, over my objections. So, I uprooted and followed her there, found work in Houston, and registered my custody order with Harris County. When my daughter was 4, Mom moved her to San Diego. I uprooted again and moved so I could be near my daughter.

When she realized she couldn't ditch me, mom eventually went scorched earth, pulling every stunt in the book to keep me out of my daughter's life. Visitation interference? Check. Maternal gatekeeping? Check. Parental alienation? Check. Poisoning teachers against me? Check. False allegations of abuse? Check. I spent a night in jail after one such incident.

This is just a taste -- the list of stunts this busybody pulled trying to get me to give up and go away is endless. But with each cross-country move, with each stunt she pulled, my resolve to maintain and protect my daughter's relationship with me only became stronger. Mom wanted the kid and the cash without a meddling father, but she fucked (with) the wrong dude.

The biggest red pill I have ever had to swallow was the anti-father bias in family court (Marin County bad, Harris County terrible, San Diego County the worst). I managed to get the standard every other weekend and Wednesday nights, but the court would do nothing to enforce that order when she interfered with visitation.

As a father, I had to be perfect, or the court would punish me. Meanwhile, Mom's unemployed, getting DUI's, not getting the kid to school, constantly proving herself unfit, and the courts do nothing other than force me to pay her attorney's fees when I ask the court to intervene. Infuriating to the point that I nearly snapped on several occasions.

There were low points when the custody battle got to fierce, the parental alienation so evil (she was recruiting my daughter into the fight), that I considered just giving up and going away, to spare my daughter the trauma. But every book I read on parental alienation said that almost all PA survivors who grow into adults say "I wish my Dad had fought harder, that he didn't give up." So I didn't, and now it is clear to me I did the right thing.

The hell finally ended when my daughter reached 14 and saw her mother for what she was. At 15 she moved in with me and my new wife full time and never went back to her mother's home again (no more CS, YEAH!). She is in college now doing great.

Was it easy? Hell no. There were times when I literally thought I was going insane dealing with the BPD craziness and the unsympathetic/unfair family courts. Was it expensive? Hell yes, I spent hundreds of thousands on attorneys, child support, moving, etc. Fortunately, I was 29 years old in 1995 with a Comp. Sci. degree and could easily find work wherever Mom absconded with my kid, so I had the funds to stay in the fight.

Was it was worth it? Hell yes. I can look myself in the mirror 20 years later and know I did the right thing. People I tell the story say "Wow, that's really impressive you did that, what a stand-up guy you are." No. As far as I'm concerned, I didn't really have a choice. I would have been an empty shell of a man if I abandoned my child. Despite being undermined constantly, I loved being a father, and the experience turned me into a man. And I firmly believe my influence on my daughter saved her from becoming a F-ed up adult like her psycho mother.

I respect any choice you make, AccF428 --only you know your situation and yourself. But if I was in your situation (which I was), I would lawyer up and go for as much custody as you can get. This will minimize CS and any negative maternal influence/alienation, and maximize your positive influence.

Sorry this was so long -- I could literally write a book about my experience, but I think that's been done many times before.

Back to the Trump thread!

Extremely motivational and awesomely moving story of epic fatherhood & masculinity.

Fuck yes! Your a stud JayR and your daughter is going to have a far better life because of you.

[RIslander]

(03-15-2016 12:17 PM)JayR Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 12:29 PM)Aristotle Wrote:  

lol at all the people saying "it's easy, no problem."

Unless you have had MULTIPLE bastard children with women in MULTIPLE states, and all of them fought you tooth and nail, you know NOTHING about the family court system. A one time personal anecdote in your little local court does NOT make you an expert.

The other exception would be if you are an experienced family court lawyer, and AGAIN, unless you've had experience in MULTIPLE STATES, you have no idea what you're talking about. The policies in family courts vary from State to state, and from County to county, even JUDGE TO JUDGE within the same county.

So please, STOP talking shit to OP like it's black and white. Just because you have daddy issues doesn't give you a right to tell everyone else how they should react to a shit situation.

Relevant to OP:

https://www.netflix.com/us-es/title/70298453

Divorce Corp, documentary on the Family Court system in the US. And yes, it IS rigged.

I meet all the criteria above, so I guess I'm an expert.

I found myself in the same situation as the OP back in 1995 in California. Raw-dogged a BPD psycho and knocked her up. She didn't tell me about the pregnancy until after I'd dumped her.

There was a day, before my daughter was born, when I looked in the mirror and asked myself, "Are you in? Or are you out?" I knew I could not go through life knowing I had a child out there who would be wondering "where is my Dad?" so I decided I was in.

And when I go in, I go ALL in. Lawyered up and prepared to be a father.

I hit the lottery with my daughter's mother. She suffers from BPD (I didn't know what BPD was at the time, learned about it out later), and she had infinite funds from her family to fight me. This was 1995, pretty much the nadir for father's rights (especially never-married fathers), and I had just relocated from Boston to San Francisco, so I had no support from my family.

When my daughter was 1, Mom moved to Texas with her, over my objections. So, I uprooted and followed her there, found work in Houston, and registered my custody order with Harris County. When my daughter was 4, Mom moved her to San Diego. I uprooted again and moved so I could be near my daughter.

When she realized she couldn't ditch me, mom eventually went scorched earth, pulling every stunt in the book to keep me out of my daughter's life. Visitation interference? Check. Maternal gatekeeping? Check. Parental alienation? Check. Poisoning teachers against me? Check. False allegations of abuse? Check. I spent a night in jail after one such incident.

This is just a taste -- the list of stunts this busybody pulled trying to get me to give up and go away is endless. But with each cross-country move, with each stunt she pulled, my resolve to maintain and protect my daughter's relationship with me only became stronger. Mom wanted the kid and the cash without a meddling father, but she fucked (with) the wrong dude.

The biggest red pill I have ever had to swallow was the anti-father bias in family court (Marin County bad, Harris County terrible, San Diego County the worst). I managed to get the standard every other weekend and Wednesday nights, but the court would do nothing to enforce that order when she interfered with visitation.

As a father, I had to be perfect, or the court would punish me. Meanwhile, Mom's unemployed, getting DUI's, not getting the kid to school, constantly proving herself unfit, and the courts do nothing other than force me to pay her attorney's fees when I ask the court to intervene. Infuriating to the point that I nearly snapped on several occasions.

There were low points when the custody battle got so fierce, the parental alienation so evil (she was recruiting my daughter into the fight), that I considered just giving up and going away, to spare my daughter the trauma. But every book I read on parental alienation said that almost all PA survivors who grow into adults say "I wish my Dad had fought harder, that he didn't give up." So I didn't, and now it is clear to me I did the right thing.

The hell finally ended when my daughter reached 14 and saw her mother for what she was. At 15 she moved in with me and my new wife full time and never went back to her mother's home again (no more CS, YEAH!). She is in college now doing great.

Was it easy? Hell no. There were times when I literally thought I was going insane dealing with the BPD craziness and the unsympathetic/unfair family courts. Was it expensive? Hell yes, I spent hundreds of thousands on attorneys, child support, moving, etc. Fortunately, I was 29 years old in 1995 with a Comp. Sci. degree and could easily find work wherever Mom absconded with my kid, so I had the funds to stay in the fight.

Was it was worth it? Hell yes. I can look myself in the mirror 20 years later and know I did the right thing. People I tell the story say "Wow, that's really impressive you did that, what a stand-up guy you are." No. As far as I'm concerned, I didn't really have a choice. I would have been an empty shell of a man if I abandoned my child. Despite being undermined constantly, I loved being a father, and the experience turned me into a man. And I firmly believe my influence on my daughter saved her from becoming a F-ed up adult like her psycho mother.

I respect any choice you make, AccF428 --only you know your situation and yourself. But if I was in your situation (which I was), I would lawyer up and go for as much custody as you can get. This will minimize CS and any negative maternal influence/alienation, and maximize your positive influence.

Sorry this was so long -- I could literally write a book about my experience, but I think that's been done many times before.

Back to the Trump thread!

The world is a better place because of good fathers like yourself.

With that said, after reading what you had to put up with I just gave myself a vasectomy with a pair of scissors.

[doc holliday]

Some great stories here about the struggles of fathers going through divorce, custody etc. I agree with everyone here telling the OP to stay in his son's life and fight for what he can get. I'm going through a divorce right now and I had to fight hard to get close to equal time with my younger kids but I fought and prevailed. The other thing I did is remained in the house living with her which allowed me to see my kids every day. It also allowed me to have the child support clock tick down to where now my older son is 18 and just about finished high school so no child support for him and only four years for my other two. My name is on the title and mortgage to my house so she had no way to kick me out. That shit's constitutionally protected. I rarely talk to her or go near her plus I kept a recorder on at all times in case she tried the Protective Order move that Merenguero talked about. So while my divorce is still ongoing (may be close to being done though), I have a custody agreement in place which will take effect once I move out which I will do once the divorce is final.

The whole thing, be it a divorce or an unmarried custody situation is a massive fight and you must be prepared to fight as hard as possible. Having decent legal representation is critical. I see so many guys who are unwilling to fight and as such, end up getting screwed. Too many guys will keep their feelings for the bitch and not want to put her through the hell she deserves. Putting her through hell is the only way you can ensure some sort of positive outcome for yourself. She ain't going to feel sympathy for you and you need to understand that post haste. Even after fighting like a motherfucker you could get the short end but most likely you'll get what you need, if not what you want. I know I've so psychologically damaged my soon to be ex just by fighting back that she'll never recover from her choice to divorce me. She never expected I would fight like I have and she never thought that 19 months later, she'd still be stuck living with me. Oh well, better her than me and two fucks I could give.

Onto, that's a shame that they wouldn't reduce your child support but unsurprising to me. I've heard that happens quite often. All the more reason the time to fight for yourself is before this shit gets entered in court, not after. Merenguero can you chime in on this issue of reducing child support if you lose your job etc?

[Onto]

^ Back then, right before I lost my job, I was already embroiled in a legal battle with her to see my son one day during the week in addition to my 2 1/2 weekends per month. Since day one we lived in different cities that were about an hour's drive apart. When he was old enough to enter Kindergarten I decided he really needed me there during the week so I could be more a apart of his education and make sure he would have a leg up, so I moved to the same city which now required me to drive an hour each way, every day to work and back.

She felt very threatened by this and refused to let me have him overnight during the week and in general made life even more difficult than it already was. I petitioned the court and was made to pay her lawyers fees to help her "defend" against me taking a more active role in my Son's life. Society and the media are always faulting Fathers for abandoning their kids, and here I am going through hoops to do the opposite. What happens? I lose and have to pay thousands in attorney's fees for her! Not to mention my own.

Where's the justice?

After that experience, then being laid off from job, and then losing the downward modification of support, I lost all taste for battle with her.

[AccF428]

(03-14-2016 10:15 PM)Grodin Wrote:  

The practical advice has already been covered so I'll leave you with one piece of broad advice:

It's unwise to make life impacting decisions when you are in the midst of emotional turmoil. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to make some decisions, but don't rush decisions that you don't have to. The pain you feel right now is sharp but will be short lived compared to the impacts of this decision.

A good rule of thumb for getting over a serious breakup: for every year you were together it'll take half that long to get over it completely. As a young guy, a year and a half to get over your ex might seem like a long time but your relationship with your son will last a lifetime. Edit: it might take less time since you two were on again off again as long as you make a clean break.

I think that with everything said, I might just have to wait. You're absolutely right. Emotions are transient, and thus we should never make decisions based on them. I've never had a difficult time getting over another girl. I've fucked other women trying to get over this one, but the strength of what I feel for this one is beyond me I'm embarrassed to say. My younger self would be looking at me in pity and contempt. But it's not just her, this passion for a family that I never wanted took over. As if the sum is greater than the individual parts.

(03-15-2016 12:05 AM)shy Wrote:  

Maybe I overread it, but how old are you?

27