[Different T]

Apologies if my post seemed off topic (it wasn't about single payer or any other specific policy).

To state it in your terms, if Trump implemented his reforms, do you think we would be having this same discussion about health care (no matter whether said reform results in more/better coverage) in four years?

[Enigma]

(06-21-2016 05:00 PM)Different T Wrote:  

Apologies if my post seemed off topic (it wasn't about single payer or any other specific policy).

To state it in your terms, if Trump implemented his reforms, do you think we would be having this same discussion about health care (no matter whether said reform results in more/better coverage) in four years?

I don't think we would. Just ask the average citizen from a place where the healthcare system is regarded as good. Do they still consider healthcare reform a major issue?

It's been a big issue here for so long because they took a shit system and made it even shittier.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-21-2016 05:18 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

(06-21-2016 05:00 PM)Different T Wrote:  

Apologies if my post seemed off topic (it wasn't about single payer or any other specific policy).

To state it in your terms, if Trump implemented his reforms, do you think we would be having this same discussion about health care (no matter whether said reform results in more/better coverage) in four years?

I don't think we would. Just ask the average citizen from a place where the healthcare system is regarded as good. Do they still consider healthcare reform a major issue?

It's been a big issue here for so long because they took a shit system and made it even shittier.

A lot of Canadians do not like their quality of care. They won't complain about the price though, because they don't know what it costs...its hidden in their taxes.

Cost wise, lets look at Ontario.

http://ipolitics.ca/2016/01/11/bulk-of-o...few-study/

In 2016 Total healthcare should be 51.8 billion dollars.
In 2015 The population of Ontario was 13.7 million people.

That is a cost of $3781 dollars per person, or $315 per person. Not bad you say? Well its not true. That cost is only borne by tax payers, everyone else gets a free ride. In Ontario, 60.1 percent of adults pay taxes http://www.urbanfutures.com/tax-payers/ The population of ontario over age 15 is 11.5 million people (couldn't find over 18) and 60 percent of that is 6.9 million. So, if you are an Ontario tax payer, you're actually paying $7507 per person or $625 per month for health care. Remember that includes no drug coverage....and 25% of health care spending gets eaten up by government administration, and public health awareness campaigns.

By comparison I pay $60/month per person in my family for health insurance, with a $500 deductible and no drug coverage in America. I can walk into any hospital or doctor's office I want as well and often can get an appointment in 1 day vs. 6 months to see a GP in Ontario when I lived there.

Thats the thing, ask a Canadian how much they spend for health insurance/medical care are they will have no idea. Thats because they never get a bill for it, they have no idea. Thats part of the reason people think its "free". Same thing for Bernie people that think that Universal Health care would be "free" health care for everyone.

[JacksonRev]

So your work subsidizes your healthcare? Or single, healthy males like me subsidize it?

I pay $252 a month, $6600 deductible. Cheapest available when work doesn't pay.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-22-2016 10:21 PM)JacksonRev Wrote:  

So your work subsidizes your healthcare? Or single, healthy males like me subsidize it?

I pay $252 a month, $6600 deductible. Cheapest available when work doesn't pay.

No one subsidizes my premium. On page 1 of this thread I noted that I'm part of a 'christian healthcare sharing ministry' which is a loophole in obamacare that allows non-compliance with obamacare regulations based on religious beliefs. Because I'm a christian that doesn't believe in free birth control and abortions I'm allowed to be part of a risk pool that has lower claims than normal insurance coverage. My pool does not cover smokers, drug abusers, transvestites, birth control or abortions.

Your $252/6600 deductible sounds about right for the cheapest catastrophic/HSA plans I've seen that are Obamacare compliant aka, plans where single healthy males like yourself have to subsidize people and treatments that Obamacare forced insurance companies to cover.

If you are serious about bucking the system, there are plenty of exemptions to mandatory insurance coverage. Talk to a tax professional, research subscription based medicine and how to get the really low premium/ultra high deductible insurance after you have an age or hardship exemption. You can get plans that don't kick in until outrageous numbers like $20,000. I used to have a plan that was $110/month for two people with a $15,000 deductible. These plans are not listed on any of the government health exchanges because they are non-compliant.

In general, the average american is getting screwed on health insurance post obamacare, but there are cracks and loopholes. Myself and at least 100k christians are using one loophole.

disclaimer: I am not authorized to provide health insurance advice in any state and and this is just a theoretical discussion.