[Baldrich]

So being that the general consensus is, rightfully, that today's corporate office environments are really no place for any sane, free man...with all the HR drones breathing down your neck and all the little rules and regulations about what to say or what not to say, what kind of jobs are free men currently working in or rather, if you had a choice (because unfortunately most people don't have too much choice in this) what are the best jobs to do right now?

In my own experience, I will say that I ditched the "9 to 5" gig many years ago and now I find teaching on my own time, my own business is much much better. You can set up your own schedule and if you do it right, be pretty much off the radar even for taxation purposes.

Trade jobs, I think, are also a good bet today especially those that require local travel and where you aren't stuck in an office of some sort all day. The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

[AWright]

What do you teach? Unfortunately you have yo do the corporate gig till you find a way to support yourself outside of it.

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 01:42 PM)AWright Wrote:  

What do you teach? Unfortunately you have yo do the corporate gig till you find a way to support yourself outside of it.

I teach all the advanced or higher level Maths: Physics, Calculus, etc.

But that's the thing: most people, most men don't even bother to try and find ways to support themselves. They just get used to their office job and there you have another drone.

[johnbozzz]

I sell midcentury stuff on the side and it gives me around 7k extra on the side, so I've been able supplement my income and work part time. It's a good way for men to go.

[Thrill Jackson]

CPA, you get out of it what you put into it.

[WeekendCasanova]

CFP* is great, if you can find a job in Wealth Management. No degree required, you set your own hours, but you have to be good at sales. Take two-years, build your book of business, and you'll be amazed at what kind of freedom you get.

CPA is great if you want to be bored sitting at a desk.

[Thrill Jackson]

^thats on the tax side, auditors get to travel and get free meals, hotel rooms, and miles from flying, etc. After three years in public accounting, most CPAs go into private and have a balanced life (40 hrs a week)making $60,000 a year+

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 02:04 PM)johnbozzz Wrote:  

I sell midcentury stuff on the side and it gives me around 7k extra on the side, so I've been able supplement my income and work part time. It's a good way for men to go.

Oh that's another of my hobbies on the side...with paintings, antiques, etc...it's a really good option but you have to really act fast sometimes for the best sales/kills.

[Peregrine]

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

[Ice]

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's no chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

[Peregrine]

(03-06-2016 03:05 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's not chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

You're right.

That said, whenever I see an "all office jobs suck, go trades" thread, I feel compelled to point out that there are merits to office jobs. I want the younger guys to have as many diverse perspectives as possible before making a decision.

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 03:05 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's not chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

EXACTLY. I would NEVER sacrifice the freedom I enjoy for a banking office job...I don't care how high you pay me...what good is all that money if you can't really be free and independent? Most people working in that environment are personally miserable and I know A LOT of people in that business. You can make A LOT of money working independently and not having to go corporate...but that really depends on how well you can manage specific fields of interest or areas that aren't really mined or require a lot of know how that most people wouldn't be bothered to learn.

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 03:11 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:05 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's not chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

You're right.

That said, whenever I see an "all office jobs suck, go trades" thread, I feel compelled to point out that there are merits to office jobs. I want the younger guys to have as many diverse perspectives as possible before making a decision.

I'm not saying do trades only...not even I am the type to be a plumber or welder. I'm just saying that there are VERY FEW advantages to an office job unless you are the owner/boss. Most men don't do well in office settings where they are just another employee.

[evilhei]

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

I was in a similar situation lately. I was working 9-5 but didn't like it. I got another offer where there are no set hours or office but you just need to do the job. But the salary is something like 2x lower.

Im thinking right now that if they would offer me 2x, 5x, even 10x the salary plus contract for 3 years to stay in that 9-5 job, I wouldn't accept it but stay at my current job where I have freedom. This 3 years being unhappy is not over weighting the money. Plus I like the freelance job also more.

Ok if they would offer me 1 million a month, I would take the 9-5 job but thats not going to happen anyway.

[WeekendCasanova]

(03-06-2016 03:12 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:05 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's not chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

EXACTLY. I would NEVER sacrifice the freedom I enjoy for a banking office job...I don't care how high you pay me...what good is all that money if you can't really be free and independent? Most people working in that environment are personally miserable and I know A LOT of people in that business. You can make A LOT of money working independently and not having to go corporate...but that really depends on how well you can manage specific fields of interest or areas that aren't really mined or require a lot of know how that most people wouldn't be bothered to learn.

I work in investment banking, and what you said is a stereotype that's not true at all. It depends what sort of banking job - CSR, pencil-pushers, sure, you'll work 40-hours like a drone.

I killed myself for a couple of years in IB, but now (and I'm 24), can take a month or two off work no problem. If you have no degree in finance, econ, sure it might be a bit hard to gain freedom from working in a bank - but don't make comments that aren't true.

If you're a hard worker, freedom can come at a young age in the banking sector. Lot's of my graduating class who went to work in Wealth Management, Finance, are very comfortable money-wise, and work from home, travel a lot, set their own hours.

Corporate Banks treat their people very well as you move up the ranks. The fact that you have to prove yourself by working a couple of years in the trenches shouldn't be a deterrent.

[Brodiaga]

(03-06-2016 01:59 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 01:42 PM)AWright Wrote:  

What do you teach? Unfortunately you have yo do the corporate gig till you find a way to support yourself outside of it.

I teach all the advanced or higher level Maths: Physics, Calculus, etc.

But that's the thing: most people, most men don't even bother to try and find ways to support themselves. They just get used to their office job and there you have another drone.

Do you teach online/over skype or in person? Do you work independently or for a school?

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 03:33 PM)evilhei Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

I was in a similar situation lately. I was working 9-5 but didn't like it. I got another offer where there are no set hours or office but you just need to do the job. But the salary is something like 2x lower.

Im thinking right now that if they would offer me 2x, 5x, even 10x the salary plus contract for 3 years to stay in that 9-5 job, I wouldn't accept it but stay at my current job where I have freedom. This 3 years being unhappy is not over weighting the money. Plus I like the freelance job also more.

Ok if they would offer me 1 million a month, I would take the 9-5 job but thats not going to happen anyway.

Exactly...I'm realistic in my expectations and NO OFFICE job is going to get you millions in salary unless you OWN the place but for your average office worker, let's face it...salaries keep going down and you have to put up with a lot of bs. I just laugh when I talk to some office workers and they tell me (at least here in Spain) all the hours they put in and the little salary they get in return. But, they feel more secure in their job. On the other hand others work for 20 hours or less per week and make twice or thrice as much.

The only jobs I would recommend in the corporate world are Wall Street jobs since, as we all know, feminists may whine all they want but it's still a man's world when it comes to the bottom line and if you work in trade you can get away with more just because you will make MUCH MORE money...but outside finance and some tech niches, really, what sane man can be happy in an office?

[Brodiaga]

(03-06-2016 02:04 PM)johnbozzz Wrote:  

I sell midcentury stuff on the side and it gives me around 7k extra on the side, so I've been able supplement my income and work part time. It's a good way for men to go.

Do you use sites like ebay/etsy or sell on your own website? What would you recommend for newbies who want to start something similar (not necessarily competing against you, but let's say selling artworks/handcrafts in general)?

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 03:39 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:12 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:05 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's not chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

EXACTLY. I would NEVER sacrifice the freedom I enjoy for a banking office job...I don't care how high you pay me...what good is all that money if you can't really be free and independent? Most people working in that environment are personally miserable and I know A LOT of people in that business. You can make A LOT of money working independently and not having to go corporate...but that really depends on how well you can manage specific fields of interest or areas that aren't really mined or require a lot of know how that most people wouldn't be bothered to learn.

I work in investment banking, and what you said is a stereotype that's not true at all. It depends what sort of banking job - CSR, pencil-pushers, sure, you'll work 40-hours like a drone.

I killed myself for a couple of years in IB, but now (and I'm 24), can take a month or two off work no problem. If you have no degree in finance, econ, sure it might be a bit hard to gain freedom from working in a bank - but don't make comments that aren't true.

If you're a hard worker, freedom can come at a young age in the banking sector. Lot's of my graduating class who went to work in Wealth Management, Finance, are very comfortable money-wise, and work from home, travel a lot, set their own hours.

Corporate Banks treat their people very well as you move up the ranks. The fact that you have to prove yourself by working a couple of years in the trenches shouldn't be a deterrent.

I was referring mainly to Spain...it's a bit different where you are...

We don't disagree really on this. That's why I said it depends what authority you have in said office or corporate world.

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 03:40 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 01:59 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 01:42 PM)AWright Wrote:  

What do you teach? Unfortunately you have yo do the corporate gig till you find a way to support yourself outside of it.

I teach all the advanced or higher level Maths: Physics, Calculus, etc.

But that's the thing: most people, most men don't even bother to try and find ways to support themselves. They just get used to their office job and there you have another drone.

Do you teach online/over skype or in person? Do you work independently or for a school?

Mostly in person...independently. I'd never work for a school...you get paid peanuts and are surrounded by people who don't really know their stuff as well as if you do it on your own. In Spain working in a school sets you up in a female world.

As for antiques...nope. I just always find a really good deal and buy quickly. Then I resell to people who I know don't know too much about the real worth of the item...and make the kill.

[Brodiaga]

(03-06-2016 03:11 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

You're right.

That said, whenever I see an "all office jobs suck, go trades" thread, I feel compelled to point out that there are merits to office jobs. I want the younger guys to have as many diverse perspectives as possible before making a decision.

I wouldn't trust anybody who says that trades are better than office work but haven't tried doing both. There are different kinds of office work and manual labor, so it all depends. I did unskilled manual work as a teenager and would never ever quit my office job to do that type of work again. However, skilled trades may be better than low and medium level office jobs for many guys. There are too many nuances to come up with a simple answer to this question.

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 03:39 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:12 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:05 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:

The worst environment ever for a man right now is a 9 to 5/6 type office corporate job. I don't care how high your salary is, is it really worth so much sacrifice?

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's not chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

EXACTLY. I would NEVER sacrifice the freedom I enjoy for a banking office job...I don't care how high you pay me...what good is all that money if you can't really be free and independent? Most people working in that environment are personally miserable and I know A LOT of people in that business. You can make A LOT of money working independently and not having to go corporate...but that really depends on how well you can manage specific fields of interest or areas that aren't really mined or require a lot of know how that most people wouldn't be bothered to learn.

I work in investment banking, and what you said is a stereotype that's not true at all. It depends what sort of banking job - CSR, pencil-pushers, sure, you'll work 40-hours like a drone.

I killed myself for a couple of years in IB, but now (and I'm 24), can take a month or two off work no problem. If you have no degree in finance, econ, sure it might be a bit hard to gain freedom from working in a bank - but don't make comments that aren't true.

If you're a hard worker, freedom can come at a young age in the banking sector. Lot's of my graduating class who went to work in Wealth Management, Finance, are very comfortable money-wise, and work from home, travel a lot, set their own hours.

Corporate Banks treat their people very well as you move up the ranks. The fact that you have to prove yourself by working a couple of years in the trenches shouldn't be a deterrent.

By the way...I tried going back to the US a few years ago and DESPITE the fact that I have a degree in Math from one of the best American universities...let's say "Ivy League"...I was unable to find a job in investment/financial/banking. I am over 30 so maybe that plus the fact that they saw I was living abroad for so long probably destroyed any chance I had of getting into the corporate world in banking...at least in the NYC area. I applied to hundreds of jobs and didn't get a single interview...so then I decided to just quit it and do things on my own. I'm not making as much money as you are (probably not) but I basically work 20 hours or fewer a week and the returns for that are pretty high here.

[WeekendCasanova]

(03-06-2016 03:47 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:39 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:12 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:05 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:49 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Hyperbole. I guarantee I could name a salary at which you'd work a 9 to 5 office job.

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's not chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

EXACTLY. I would NEVER sacrifice the freedom I enjoy for a banking office job...I don't care how high you pay me...what good is all that money if you can't really be free and independent? Most people working in that environment are personally miserable and I know A LOT of people in that business. You can make A LOT of money working independently and not having to go corporate...but that really depends on how well you can manage specific fields of interest or areas that aren't really mined or require a lot of know how that most people wouldn't be bothered to learn.

I work in investment banking, and what you said is a stereotype that's not true at all. It depends what sort of banking job - CSR, pencil-pushers, sure, you'll work 40-hours like a drone.

I killed myself for a couple of years in IB, but now (and I'm 24), can take a month or two off work no problem. If you have no degree in finance, econ, sure it might be a bit hard to gain freedom from working in a bank - but don't make comments that aren't true.

If you're a hard worker, freedom can come at a young age in the banking sector. Lot's of my graduating class who went to work in Wealth Management, Finance, are very comfortable money-wise, and work from home, travel a lot, set their own hours.

Corporate Banks treat their people very well as you move up the ranks. The fact that you have to prove yourself by working a couple of years in the trenches shouldn't be a deterrent.

By the way...I tried going back to the US a few years ago and DESPITE the fact that I have a degree in Math from one of the best American universities...let's say "Ivy League"...I was unable to find a job in investment/financial/banking. I am over 30 so maybe that plus the fact that they saw I was living abroad for so long probably destroyed any chance I had of getting into the corporate world in banking...at least in the NYC area. I applied to hundreds of jobs and didn't get a single interview...so then I decided to just quit it and do things on my own. I'm not making as much money as you are (probably not) but I basically work 20 hours or fewer a week and the returns for that are pretty high here.

Yeah, don't get me wrong - I'd love to have more freedom. But I was just saying it's possible to make money in banking, while having a good level in freedom.

[Brodiaga]

(03-06-2016 03:39 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

I work in investment banking, and what you said is a stereotype that's not true at all. It depends what sort of banking job - CSR, pencil-pushers, sure, you'll work 40-hours like a drone.

I killed myself for a couple of years in IB, but now (and I'm 24), can take a month or two off work no problem. If you have no degree in finance, econ, sure it might be a bit hard to gain freedom from working in a bank - but don't make comments that aren't true.

If you're a hard worker, freedom can come at a young age in the banking sector. Lot's of my graduating class who went to work in Wealth Management, Finance, are very comfortable money-wise, and work from home, travel a lot, set their own hours.

Corporate Banks treat their people very well as you move up the ranks. The fact that you have to prove yourself by working a couple of years in the trenches shouldn't be a deterrent.

How can you take a couple of months off? Most office workers can't do that.

[Baldrich]

(03-06-2016 03:51 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:47 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:39 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:12 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:05 PM)Ice Wrote:  

Yeah but you know these are thought-experiments that don't make much sense. Yeah you can say, "surely you would work 9-6 for a job as an investment banker making 500k a year." Yeah but first of all that won't be a 9-6 but rather 6-12, and second of all it takes many years to get to that level. You need to be very dedicated to that lifestyle & work to get to that level in the first place. It's not something that just anyone can achieve. If you're a person who dislikes 9-5 office jobs there's not chance you will get to high-level position in IB or any other high-paying white collar field.

EXACTLY. I would NEVER sacrifice the freedom I enjoy for a banking office job...I don't care how high you pay me...what good is all that money if you can't really be free and independent? Most people working in that environment are personally miserable and I know A LOT of people in that business. You can make A LOT of money working independently and not having to go corporate...but that really depends on how well you can manage specific fields of interest or areas that aren't really mined or require a lot of know how that most people wouldn't be bothered to learn.

I work in investment banking, and what you said is a stereotype that's not true at all. It depends what sort of banking job - CSR, pencil-pushers, sure, you'll work 40-hours like a drone.

I killed myself for a couple of years in IB, but now (and I'm 24), can take a month or two off work no problem. If you have no degree in finance, econ, sure it might be a bit hard to gain freedom from working in a bank - but don't make comments that aren't true.

If you're a hard worker, freedom can come at a young age in the banking sector. Lot's of my graduating class who went to work in Wealth Management, Finance, are very comfortable money-wise, and work from home, travel a lot, set their own hours.

Corporate Banks treat their people very well as you move up the ranks. The fact that you have to prove yourself by working a couple of years in the trenches shouldn't be a deterrent.

By the way...I tried going back to the US a few years ago and DESPITE the fact that I have a degree in Math from one of the best American universities...let's say "Ivy League"...I was unable to find a job in investment/financial/banking. I am over 30 so maybe that plus the fact that they saw I was living abroad for so long probably destroyed any chance I had of getting into the corporate world in banking...at least in the NYC area. I applied to hundreds of jobs and didn't get a single interview...so then I decided to just quit it and do things on my own. I'm not making as much money as you are (probably not) but I basically work 20 hours or fewer a week and the returns for that are pretty high here.

Yeah, don't get me wrong - I'd love to have more freedom. But I was just saying it's possible to make money in banking, while having a good level in freedom.

Oh of course...I won't deny that. But the reality is that most people with office jobs are NOT working in IB, let alone have the choice to take so much time off or freedom. Plus, you really (especially in the US) have to walk on egg shells a lot of the time watching everything you say in the office, etc.