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The Orthodox Church
05-02-2017, 03:43 PM
There are no real "branches" of Orthodox christianity, given that it is the only particular church that can claim apostolic succession and never changing its doctrine or practice. To make things overwhelming simplistic, I never understood why the seekers or even honest people had a hard time with this one, especially those that are disciplined (I guess there aren't that many) like us: when studying christianity, it pretty much comes down to RC or EO as clearly the source of true ancient christianity. When you consider what Vatican I and II did, which were just symptoms of the political aspect of the top-down RC paradigm, and the theology of each as well as the origin of each, it was always breathtakingly obvious to me what the original church is/was. But I digress, lol
The only real "branch" would be the so-called Oriental Orthodox churches (syriac, coptic, armenian, ethiopian, malankaran syrian, etc) which are non-Chalcedonian (4th ecumenical council) churches. They are SO similar in faith and practice it is hard to even distinguish between us and them at all, but technically we are not in communion. Still, many ethiopians and copts have come to the churches I've attended over the years and we all pretty much insist that we don't disagree on christology, it was more a language issue of understanding the natures of Christ. Still, they have never admitted that they erroneously rejected the 4th council, and usually as time goes by, if it isn't healed early, too many identity and other issues arise. As such, we'll likely keep going along as is. I consider them among the closest brethren and essentially, though not technically, equal. But that is a private opinion of mine. I think most hold it.
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The Orthodox Church
05-02-2017, 10:03 PM
I have to say just in general - when I began reading up on Christianity while abroad, I was astounded by how culturally rich it is, even within the Catholic Church. As much as I want to crap on the lefties for thinking Islam, Judaism and Hinduism/Buddhism/Shintoism/Daoism/whatever are so neato and multicultural and cool, Christians in America have done nothing to make their church services engaging on a genuine level and it isn't much of a wonder so many fall away after high school.
I grew up with the boringass "sign of peace" Vatican II mass, the congregants often listened to Christian rock and actually thought it was good music. There was not much of a difference between the Catholic masses and the Protestant services I occasionally went to growing up - they were so similar, my mother signed me up for Protestant vacation bible school and it took me about a week to notice they weren't Catholic.
(I went on a mission trip to Central America at the end of the seventh grade, and almost everyone who went along were social rejects who I'd have been embarrassed to be seen with outside of the church - EVERY conversation was about God, ALL music played was Christian. I understand that appealing to people outside of the church is stupid to have as a main priority, but these guys had it as their absolute last priority, and quite a few didn't even seem to notice that singing spontaneous hymns in, say, an airport terminal made everyone stare at us like we were the Flanders family. Who would want to convert to this?)
Orthodox masses are very old-fashioned, it seems, and they speak for themselves. The only thing keeping me out is that (as said a page or so ago) they tend to be ethnic clubs. There's a Greek cathedral and a Serbian cathedral in my area, and if I were to cross over, I'd likely have to make a commitment to learn the language. (Given how much I love traveling, and ESPECIALLY considering how much I love Eastern European women, that wouldn't necessarily be bad thing - but that's a hell of a workload, and I'd have to get serious quick.)
Since my life is already complex enough right now, and there are still conservative bits and pieces of Roman Catholicism left, I'll stay right where I am for now - but I certainly notice that over half of Catholics are lefties, and this commie pope is probably going to do at least one or two big things before he dies. He's 80 and has a decade or so. I'm not looking forward to it.
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The Orthodox Church
05-07-2017, 03:00 PM
All the religions are no different than mythologies.
Men don't need a religion, women do, so it will keep them from cheating and teach them some family values.
Can the orthodox church provide that? There are some English speaking churches for those who interested or learn Russian.
I also consider the LDS church for that purpose.
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The Orthodox Church
05-08-2017, 02:54 AM
Lonewolf is right. To further that point, men are creatures of action. We build, we cause, we act with the intention of changing our selves, families, communities, and societies in a particular way. If we are making such changes based on a profoundly false notion about the nature of reality, our changes will ultimately be self-destructive. If we are making such changes based on a true understanding of reality, our changes will be ultimately constructive. This is why it is important for us men to settle important questions concerning religion, theology, metaphysics, ethics, and philosophy as a whole. Religion is not about comfort. It is not a mere means of controlling temperament. It involves the nature of being and of meaning and goes even far beyond that. To express such indifference is blatant shirking and is also kind of feminine.
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The Orthodox Church
05-10-2017, 10:32 AM
Some of the above poster(s) suggest that "only women" need the truth. That's bereft of any logical thinking or foundation. And on this forum, it's an embarrassment in position, and logic.
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The Orthodox Church
05-12-2017, 12:38 AM
Someone clear something up for me. Are the Greek Catholics in communion with the Greek Orthodox, or are they just affectionate?
The Melkite church near me does NOT have the Filioque in the Nicene Creed, and has a liturgy that, to my knowledge, is almost the same as Greek Orthodox. The priest I added on Facebook (oh boy, time to start watching my language when I post) almost constantly "likes" Greek Orthodox church posts and shares their statuses.
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The Orthodox Church
05-15-2017, 10:56 PM
Byzantine catholics are in full communion with the latins and not with the orthodox. I'm no expert on the latin church, but IIRC Rome allows eastern catholics to omit the filioque, so the Melkites do that.
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The Orthodox Church
05-18-2017, 11:32 AM
Well , I didn't read all the comments in here as some quoted texts were too long but I can conclude something in a few words: " Orthodox Church is the the true heir of the lessons of Jesus Christ and the true form of Christianity.
Everything else from the catholics and especially to Protestants is a deviation.
I am Catholic Albanian myself but I am thinking to convert to Orthodoxy for obvious reasons .
I am also more intact with the teachings of the Old Testament rather than the New.
Albanians as apostolic Christians Since The times when Saint Paul came to Illyria are some of the first Orthodox people in the world.
Even now days Southern Albania is a treasure of the Orthodox Culture with endless 600-700-800 till 1400 years old monasteries and churches.
Anyways my point is that Orthodoxy is the purest form of Christianity.
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The Orthodox Church
07-28-2017, 11:58 AM
Well, don't want to resurrect a thread, but going to the nearest Greek Orthodox cathedral this Sunday. (Quite a variety near me, funnily enough- Serbian, Russian, Ukranian, and Coptic too.)
The priest told me when I e-mailed to please not partake in communion. I was very happy to see that.
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The Orthodox Church
07-31-2017, 01:03 AM
I absolutely adored it - the fact that I had to get up early to go to a pretty distant neighborhood (and cross the bad part of town on the way there) almost added to it.
I was greeted in the vestibule by some very strict rules on the door to the worship area. No entering under any circumstances if the priest is facing you, if he's incensing the room, etc. I asked the usher to please let me know when I was allowed to enter (the Divine Liturgy was preceded by Matins and they flowed into each other). Service was about an hour and 45 minutes, about as long as a Tridentine Mass or the Divine Liturgy I went to in the Melkite church. Much, much more standing here than in either of those, and about 75% percent of the service was in incomprehensible Koine Greek. (Latin at least has enough cognates where I'm not hearing gibberish...no such luck here. The feeling of being illiterate is sort of a rush for me.)
Coffee and pastries (all Greek of course) was afterward and I spoke to the priest pretty extensively. He was happy to see me but not overjoyed, as he's got his major issues with Catholicism and didn't hesitate to tell me. (He probably wanted to make sure I was actually playing with the idea of becoming an Orthodox Christian, not just attending the mass to get some free baklava and watch them worship like I was some asshat tourist.)
I have noticed in the traditionalist Catholic cathedral I go to, despite it being conservative and having a solid clergy, there is some minor entryism. Some people have no problem with the Novus Ordo, love Pope Francis, and are generally liberal-minded, but like the Tridentine Rite because it's pretty and historic. I also somewhat regularly see people underdressed there and have seen the occasional piercing or woman wearing inappropriate makeup (blue nail polish, orange lipstick). None of this is extensive, but it's there.
Comparatively - this Orthodox church comes across as entryism-proof. A very large percentage of the congregants are fluent in Greek, the service is long and drones on and on, and there are multiple fasting days well after Easter is over - in fact, the whole month of December has just as many fasting days as the beginning of Lent. The congregants come across as very involved with each other. This is very, very intense in a way that surpasses the Latin Rite. (Add on top of this, too, the fact that yout average person doesn't know what an Orthodox Christian is.)
I said earlier in this thread that I viewed an ethnic enclave of a church like this negatively, because people would hesitate to join and numbers would stay down. I now see the benefits of it in the Current Year. With SJWs running around trying to use Christianity to further their goals, sometimes a community staying static-ish can stop this problem in its tracks. The priest complained about the other "liberal" Greek Orthodox church in the area, too, so I'm well aware that not even this part of the faith is immune.
Overall - I need some time to think about this since my whole extended family are serious Catholics - and I also had a similar reaction when I saw my first Latin service. I'll just bounce around between these three churches and see what happens.
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The Orthodox Church
07-31-2017, 01:28 AM
^ Do you plan on learning Greek, Stugatz? That is, if you do plan on attending this Greek church.
,,Я видел, куда падает солнце!
Оно уходит сквозь постель,
В глубокую щель!"
-Андрей Середа, ,,Улица чужих лиц", 1989 г.
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The Orthodox Church
07-31-2017, 11:20 PM
Continuation to the post above, though - since I am likely going to be in the Levant attempting to learn Arabic in about a year and a half or so, though, Greek Orthodox isn't a bad liturgy to be familiar with, as it's scattered all across that area alongside the Melkite and Maronite Catholics.
I wouldn't be interested in wandering around Turkey nowadays, but the population used to be huge there too...
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The Orthodox Church
08-04-2017, 04:52 PM
Just one final post, will probably update around Christmas or New Year's.
Did some searching, and my metro has a LOT of Orthodox parishes, and one more Eastern Rite Catholic I hadn't heard of. I'm looking at five more different kinds of Orthodox, one Eastern Rite, and one Orthodox Church of America. Before Christmas I intend to drop by all of them, if possible and just give brief commentary as an outsider.
I don't anticipate the post is going to be too long - how many differences between the Eastern Orthodox churches can there be, really? - but there may be some hidden surprises in Oriental. (I was told by an acquaintance to expect a three-and-a-half hour long service at least from the Copts, and those guys do nothing but fast half of the year.)
I can't leave the country right now (financial problems, working extra hours) so this will have to do for now to scratch that itch. Should be interesting.
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The Orthodox Church
08-05-2017, 12:19 PM
Nope, SE Wisconsin, Milwaukee-ish.
Are you Syriac Orthodox or Maronite?
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The Orthodox Church
08-05-2017, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the updates, stugatz.
Like you, I just started getting into traditionalist Catholicism not long ago, so I want to spend some time with that before making any moves. I will, however, make a point to visit some Eastern Orthodox churches in the near future just to test the waters to see how I like their services.
In any case, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the different churches you visit.
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The Orthodox Church
08-06-2017, 11:11 AM
I've read this thread a couple of times as I am in the process of converting to Orthodoxy myself from Roman Catholicism. I spent 10 years as a Catholic and explored every liturgical trend it had to offer (liberal N.O. parishes, "reform of the reform" type parishes with more conservative N.O. liturgies, FSSP Latin Masses, and even one or two Sede Masses). I found all of them wanting and was never satisfied with the Western answers to many questions.
I just began my journey East about 2, 2.5 months ago and have been reading as much as I can, attending DL and a few vesper services, reading as much as I can, as well as meeting with a priest 1-2 times a month. I've had to restructure and retool my prayer life as well as how I approach prayer. Eastern prayer is more meditative, Western theology puts great emphasis on contemplation and the use of the imagination during prayer.
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The Orthodox Church
08-06-2017, 03:46 PM
What's the deal with Orthros by the way - it precedes DL, and it's highly structured, so I assume it's Eastern Orthodox's version of the Rosary. Are there beads or prayer ropes to go with it?
