[Stitch]

Heh.

Aaanyway, I've spent 18 of the last 19 years in a state of actually comparative marital bliss, and honestly would recommend it; okay, admittedly the sex was a little tepid, but it wasn't bad, and it was genuinely nice having your best friend around all the time for everything from silly gaming to crawling under a house and fixing things. I invested in a lot of education for her (MA, MBA, MS in Marketing, now PhD) so that she could have the career she wanted and I could support her after retirement while living off her paycheck; was a pretty good life outlook.

...until, as y'all probably guessed, a month before our 19th anniversary she freaked out and ran away saying she couldn't stand "living in my shadow", filed for divorce, and seems pretty intent on taking half our savings and half my pension while running off to her neopagan polyamorous friends several states away.

So that's fuckin' awesome.

Buuuut, didn't come here for sympathy; I got all kinds of support for that. My point is I'm back on the market in about 3-4 months, and on paper I'm looking pretty good--ex-pilot, good salary (once soon-to-be-ex maintenance is over, which should be short), no kids, very fit, just got back from a PhD in England, good on stage, lots of stories, and still look pretty young (when a young coed was chatting me up and discovered I was 38 at the time, she exploded with "BLOODY HELL!"--damn funny and a lesson to me not to answer that question directly). Nice pad, too, if I get to keep it--reasonably stylish, outdoor hot tub in the trees a possibly-useful bonus (serious minus: out of town a ways; no easy transition from in-town date location).

So that's great on paper, but I haven't been dating since I was, hell, fifteen or so. Got no clue where to start. I won't do anything serious until the divorce is final, but may as well start practicing, building confidence, kitting out a better wardrobe, whatever.

I'm finding that, cheesy as they are, ballroom dancing classes, while wretched for meeting women (average population age: well above me), are good practice for the Complete Approach Virgin just because it's expected that the man initiate contact, and you're expected to just ask anyone that's free; decent practice for just walking up to a stranger and talking if that idea paralyzes you, but that learning curve flattens fast.

And in some ways, a FWB situation may help build initial confidence (I've had a couple old high-school girlfriends offer, and while I'm holding off until legal stuff is final just in case it would matter, that may not be a bad thing to try as long as expectations are pretty clear--gotta be careful on that because a) some of them seem a little too interested in a long-term attachment, which I won't be interested in for a good long while and b) some of them are bit weird; WTF is it about me that attracts the neopagans, wiccans, and psychics? I'm an athiestic scientist FFS!). At least one sounds... educational and fun, we'll say.

But after that--man, I learn fast but I'm out of my league just because I haven't had to think about this stuff in a long time. No idea where even to start looking at this age--no experience in nightclubs, bars, anything. I've read the threads about how game can get even better at 40+, which I actually understand (I'm a hell of a lot more comfortable socially than I was earlier, not to mention financially stable even despite this), but those are generally comments from people who have been doing this and TURNED 40, not those who STARTED at 40.

Any tips on starting up cold at a mildly ripe old age?

[Samseau]

Dude, you've got a great thing going here because you'll be able to have fun re-learning the game. Think of this as a exciting new challenge.

(One side note: Marriage for 19 years and no kids? I can't even imagine being married w/o kids...)


So, you're basically like a 20-yr old virgin who is like "OMFG I NEED OT GET LAID WUT DO I DO????" but, since you've got a huge resume under your belt, the only thing you really need is to find out the appropriate venues to game at and you'll be all set.


There are two things you should be doing.

1. Exploring hardcore. Check out as many bars, lounges, hotel-lounges, nightclubs, coffee-shops, and other public places as you can within the next year. It's time to find your niche. Spend your weekends exploring as many different places as possible.

2. Think seriously about traveling. Sell your house, get a cheap flat in a city, and see if you can live the "travel and game abroad" lifestyle. It sounds like you might be able to do it. The perks of this is really to enjoy the world and what it can offer.



My recommendations for you:

- Don't focus too much on dancing. I wouldn't bother learning to dance unless your under 30, 25 or under is ideal for learning to dance. Fuck, most of the best dancers I know started in their teenage years... you'll be out competed by much younger guys, so don't worry about that shit.
- Daygame is your logical choice. Work on approaching strange women either in the street, or a bookstore, or some other place. Daygame will teach you the ropes of game.
- For nightgame, I think you'd get more millage out of suit game, something the G Manifesto preaches. Check out his blog. If you got the cash to swing it, suit game rules.
- Online dating is a must for you. Since you look so good on paper, with all of your accomplishments, you'll clean up in the online world. Still, online game is not a substitute for learning actual game, so you need to find places to approach. Online game will be an important supplement at your age.



Have fun!

[Gmac]

I'm gonna make this short because I gotta run over to another part of town, but I agree with pretty much everything Samseau said... and you've got a great opportunity since you have no kids.

Online dating will be huge so I suggest getting into it ASAP. A very close buddy of mine got into it after his divorce (around your age at the time) and granted, it took a few years to get accustomed to everything but even now he is still probably better with women than me. At your age and based on what you've told us about your looks & resume you should have no problem dating down to the upper 20s range without too much trouble.

If you want any advice on the profile, pictures, messaging, etc., shoot me a PM.

The main thing you should be focusing on right now is approach & date game... so get out there and get as much experience as you can. Your age and experience will work to your advantage with a lot of women, so I also recommend going the G Manifesto route. Don't pretend like you're still in your 20s, you aren't.

Good luck, and don't be put off by anyone who rejects you because of your age... it will probably take some time to get used to it and you'll soon learn to identify the types of women who are looking for guys like you.

[UrbanNerd]

If you have you some money and some game, why not use your age/wealth to your advantage? It cuts out a whole lot of extra work that many young guys would have to do. You don't have to dance and flex muscles. If you are in Miami/South Beach (as an example), you just sit down at a nice bar, engaged in nice convo and tell that chick that I am staying at the Setai hotel.

Of course, there is more work than that, but there is a different game/approach for the older dudes.

[ManAbout]

I disagree with the earlier comments about online dating. Yes, online dating is great if you are looking to date 30+ year old women. However, the big disadvantage of online dating is that you have to state your age up front. The attractive women 20 something women on dating sites are so inundated with messages from guys their own age that you will have a very hard time catching their attention. In fact on sites like plentyoffish, you won't even see their profiles because many women set an age range. If they are in their late 20s, it is around 35, if they are in their early 20s, it is 25 to 30 max. You will not have time to build attraction before they find out about your age.

Now, on the other hand, if you are just looking for quick bangs from 20 year olds, then you could always lie about your age on your online dating profile and get them that way.

And don't feel obligated to tell any women about your true age. If they meet you on the street and they guess or think that you are much younger, let them go with their thoughts. You need to be extremely selfish, and realize that you don't owe anybody anything.

[Stitch]

Quote:

Dude, you've got a great thing going here because you'll be able to have fun re-learning the game. Think of this as a exciting new challenge.

I'll take it on faith--still feel pretty wretched, but man, everyone including my family, friends, ex-girlfriends, and lawyer are all telling me the same thing, that this'll be one of the best things that's ever happened to me. Hard to believe from here, but I can at least see the potential.

Quote:

the only thing you really need is to find out the appropriate venues to game at and you'll be all set.

That's the trick, all right. Nontrivial task, though.

Quote:

There are two things you should be doing.

Totally agree on the exploring. I was making some headway there but have taken a couple months off--my sister spent four weeks out here helping revamp my life and house, sorting belongings into his and hers piles, that kind of stuff; parents are out here now helping me patch up the house (still looks like I keep it).

As for selling the house and traveling, I can't; I was sponsored for the PhD and now owe four more years in my current job. But that's cool; I love my work (teaching undergraduates; also keeps me more in touch with pop culture and a "youthful attitude") and it's a good income, and I'll need at least a few years of that to recover from the freaking gigantic financial hit I'm taking to my savings. However, I do want to travel more, and once I retire from my first career I'll have half a pension but that'd still be enough to try something like that.

But that's later.

Quote:

Don't focus too much on dancing.

Sure. That's a hobby rather than a pulling venue; besides, it's mostly ballroom and there just aren't exactly many opportunities to pull a beautiful woman during a waltz. It serves the purpose of getting me out of the house into a social venue and interacting with people (I'm trying to pass it off, but the loss of a 19-year relationship and half your savings is a big emotional hit; recovery is nontrivial).

Good comments on daygame; something for weekend work. "Suit game" is actually a very logical choice if I can find venues for it, a point brought home when I ran into G's post on $500 Gucci loafers a day or so after my sister was convincing me I needed to spend >$350 on a good pair of shoes. She could damn near be my fashion consultant; threw out half my clothes and was trying to educate me on the finer points of suit construction before she left. Also matches the last couple years; I went to more black tie events in grad school than I had the entire rest of my life (really wish if my wife was leaving me she would have done it BEFORE being surrounded by beautiful intelligent coeds with intriguing foreign accents), and by now I pretty much rock a dinner jacket and look for occasions where I can dress up; those three years had a very acculturating effect.

(actually led to almost unintentional game; by now in unfamiliar social situations I drop into something near a south England accent, which inevitably leads to where I'm from, stories, etc; at one event a girl actually said "when you're back on the market, that would be a great pickup routine", which may be bad if it seems too obvious but was an interesting comment nonetheless). Voice works very well for me (STBX even said several times she thought it was my sexiest feature), so that combined with a good look/dress would probably work nicely. For casual wear I haven't moved much past the black T-shirt + khakis stage, so that needs some help (although I've gotten a fair number of compliments of the "you're in really good shape" variety, so that's not all bad--I'm nowhere near jacked, but clearly work out). I live in a pretty casual area, so even moderate upgrades (better fabrics/construction, a light half-lined linen summerweight sportcoat, etc) will probably go a long way. Doing some shopping tomorrow in fact. Need to find a tailor.

GMac, ManAbout--points taken on online dating. I won't lie about my age (I just don't lie; not worth it and I couldn't keep track of it anyway) and while it'd be a thrill to get with a significantly younger woman (and probably reasonable) I think I view online as a secondary tool which is useful but which I shouldn't rely on. My weak spot is initial approach and base-level confidence, and the big gap in my area of knowledge is simply appropriate venues.

The big advantage I have is that I have really internalized from all my professional ventures that the key to any skill is deliberate practice, and that this is a skill. Having internalized that idea, I think it's more a matter of practice than anything else.

[pitt]

You teach undergraduates? Start moving to girls in your class or around the university where you teach. But just eye fuck them when you see few of them and see how they respond. Many girls dream about fucking their teachers, so you have a big advantage of how you could start. Plus i bet you already have the skills to talk to people, put it this way, i can approach any type of women at any given location or time but i dont think i would be able to teach hundreds of people a subject, i will be a little bit intimidated but you seem to be cool with that so thats a great advantage, it will make easier for you when approaching girls.

I agree with Gmac about the internet stuff, do try it and see how it goes. Also travel around when you get some time, try a country in south america where people are friendly and i guarantee you that 90% of the girls will respond to you when approaching them.

You should be fine man, dont worry, if you have a wing man who is living this lifestyle should make things easier for you.

But remember that the secret to sleep around a lot is to approach and approach and approach. I mean approach everything and anything, even if you are not interested., just talk to the woman for the sake of talking to her, do it for 30 days non stop, soon it will become an addiction.

[Samseau]

As you will learn in the next few years, sometimes you'll want to lie about your age. Especially if you're eyeing a girl you'll probably never see again, it's worth spitting a lie if it means a night of good times.

[Vicious]

(07-04-2011 06:02 PM)Stitch Wrote:  

My point is I'm back on the market in about 3-4 months, and on paper I'm looking pretty good--ex-pilot

Bastard! What are you doing on this forum? You have the world's best line right there. How can you even get to the keyboard from all the snatch that's blocking your way?

Seriously though, welcome to the forum! I can tell from your first few messages that you seem to have your head screwed on straight and a good sense of self. That's 90% of game right there, the rest is just fine-tuning and churning, churning, churning... not that it'll be easy but it's fairly straight-forward as opposed to having to rebuild your entire self-image as some of the people here has done here.

[Stitch]

Quote:

Bastard! What are you doing on this forum? You have the world's best line right there.

Heh--you'd think, eh? Particularly when I can throw it away ("well, I used to be a helicopter pilot, but I wanted something more exciting, so I went into theoretical physics...").

It's all internal stuff. In jr high/high school I was a serious pencil-necked geek, and I mean serious, of the "stay in my parents' basement playing Dungeons & Dragons and computer games" variety. Obviously I've moved on a lot by then--serious gym work (heh, did intramural boxing in my undergraduate years and got pounded, but I gotta agree with G, it's an insane workout), flying, social stuff (acting, teaching), etc. But my inner game is hosed because I met my wife at 15 in my full-on geek phase, and so despite my casual social confidence, my interactions with women are mentally anchored at this socially inept point in life rather than now. Took an improv class with a final performance and was able to walk on stage in front of a crowd of strangers and belt out songs about the adult film industry without blinking, but get me talking to a woman one-on-one and I practically start stammering (combine this with the accent I fall into when nervous and it's almost a Hugh Grant vibe, but somehow without his appeal--heh) Will just take practice to move on. Additionally, my dad had an affair when I was in high school and it really screwed up our family, so I have intentionally been "blinders on" and non-flirtatious throughout my marriage, which means I just never developed the social skills for one-on-one interaction with women (an ironic oversight as I imagine neglecting those skills is part of what led to her leaving). Better late than never.

Realizing that helps in the sense that I know it's an issue that can be fixed with practice, but it doesn't make it just go away. It is pretty funny, though... my improv class went out for drinks after class one day and after telling life stories one of the women joked "so why is it that you aren't trailing a line of women after you?" Didn't want to bring up the impending divorce so I avoided the question, but that was a good confidence-builder. Should have flirted back more aggressively but I'm holding the line until things are final.

Gotta admit, I'm having a bit of trouble reconciling day game in coffeeshops and bookstores and suit game, particularly in the hot summer weather. I appreciate that dressing up from the average is a notable distinguisher, but a custom half-lined linen blend summer suit to go checking out paperbacks seems overkill Not saying those two things can't be combined, but it's an amusing idea to think of trying it.

[Stitch]

Actually found a custom suit shop today and did some pricing; 'bout what I expected; $1500ish on the low end for a sports coat, $4.5-$5k on the high end for a full suit. Something to consider once I stop losing about $2500/month on her maintenance, actually, but I need to know more about what I want before making that sort of investment. Probably will drop a little on nice off-the-rack items and get 'em tailored while I get used to the idea.

[Docter]

I like the way you write.

...

No homo.

[Stitch]

Heh. Thanks. No homo here either.

By the bye, don't anyone assume from the above that I think a custom suit will suddenly unlock floods of women; it was something I was considering anyway (hey, get a doctorate from Oxford, a stop by Savile Row on the way out seems valid, right?). But it's on hold for a long time while I figure out style to begin with, and since my primary problem is inner game and approach anxiety, that's where I need to spend time. But I need to work on presentation anyway (so saith my sister, who knows a lot about dressing with class, and about being hit on by guys). Just let this be a lesson to the younger lads: as it's been said, confidence and internal game trumps appearance, fitness, fashion, income, and just about anything else.

But hey, style never hurts, and it can affect confidence and internal game, to an extent. Besides, it's somewhat fun.

One option I'm seriously considering is a traveling made-to-measure Thai/HK tailor. You won't get the quality of a local tailor (but you could use a local to refit the MTM suit if it needs tweaking), but it's a step up from off-the-rack, plus they keep your measurements on file for future use; even if you just want a custom shirt of iffy construction but with a particular fabric, it's probably worthwhile. Going to try that as a test and see what I think of the quality; I'll put a report up once I know more.

Funny how strong approach anxiety is, and how much I have real trouble with the idea of a canned cold approach. I always look for hooks (girl with puppy; girl with ereader; girl sipping a foofy coffee drink) and assume I have to construct a clever opener around what I see to break the ice, when it's been clearly shown that's not only not necessary but often counterproductive. Need to just get out on the streets more.

(amusingly, my parents are out here helping with house renovation--dad's in his 70s but still rocks with a hammer. So yes, even at 40, your parents can cramp your dating style)