[robreke]

Another humiliating display of the weakness and joke our country is becoming under our degenerate 'leader' in the white house.

US sailors were captured by Iran. Then, they (The captured sailors) apologize and say how gracious the Iranians treated them.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/13/politics/iran-us-sailors/

Whatever happened to just giving your name, rank and serial number?


Could this be some kind of ploy orchestrated by the administration to show Americans that the Iranians aren't really all that bad and the nuke deal Obama did with them was probably a good thing after all, despite what those mean Republicans say? Not sure.

What I am sure of is it's kind of a sad as an American to see our military humbled like this by a terrorist regime.

[spokepoker]

The SOLDIERS apologized for being captured? To the Iranian captors?
Came in here thinking Iran apologized for 'accidentally' capturing American soldiers.
I'll read the article when I have time for it to load.

[h3ltrsk3ltr]

C'mon, Navy

[Monty_Brogan]

Meh.

These were sailors, and probably just average "Joes" as far as the military is considered -this wasn't some hardened spec ops or grunt unit. I agree there was probably a whole heap of politics going on with them posting that video.

I served, and respect anyone who serves our country, but I don't think this makes us look weak. This unit caught some bad luck and drifted somewhere they weren't authorized.

Quote:

Earlier, the naval commander of the Guards, Gen Ali Fadavi, said investigations found a navigational failure was to blame.

"We have concluded that passage of Americans in our territorial waters was not a hostile passage or for espionage or similar acts," he told Iranian television.

There's a whole bag of crap that is/has been weakening our military, but not this.

If a nuclear sub ran into issues for some reason and had to surface and let the Iranians on board and take command of the ship... then I would say the sky is falling. This was a tiny SNAFU and ended exactly how it should have. No reason for bloodshed on either side over this.

[Repo]

I mean, if they did make a mistake by entering Irans waters and upon capture, apolgized for that mistake, is that a bad thing? Is there a standard operating procedure within the military for this kind of thing? I know I would be nervous about being held as part of a political game, but then again thats also why I never joined the military.

[captndonk]

Really bizarre and stupid. Iran should be clever which means to try to win the public support in the US. Presenting US soldiers in that way doesn't help. If they had just provided them with some help, until other forces picked them up they would have made a good impression.

[Surreyman]

Basically the exact same thing happened to the Royal Navy in 2007.

Iran claimed it was there waters, picked up the crew of a RHIB and held them in comfy cells in Iran for a few weeks. There was a lot of press on it at the time, everyone was saying that the sailors were being pussies, one of them complained about being called "Mr Bean" and a woman complained about being forced to wear a scarf.

It was a time of greater tension with Iran though, hence the greater press coverage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Irani..._personnel

[Uncircumcised Coke Can]

They violated Iran's territorial waters. That warrants an apology.

What about that is bothering you, exactly?

Or do you think being diplomatic make you some sort of pansy?

[MidJack]

That is not how conduct after capture works for military personnel, even in peacetime.

If you are captured, you defer to diplomatic channels. Never apologize, since that is an admission of wrongdoing and source of propaganda for your captors to use against the US -- again, even in peacetime.

These guys (plus woman) failed their duty. Everyone in the US military who deploys gets basic conduct after capture training. Some go to advanced schools.

[Cobra]

No one thinks this is media blowing this shit up?

Who cares?

Apologizing won't make you less of a man.

Water under the bridge.

No one violated any masculine or patriotic code of honor.

I was in the Navy. I can appreciate both the shit heads as well as the solid men I made friends with during my time.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

What if the Iranians had a massive naval base in Cuba (like the US does in Bahrain), and were patrolling around the Florida Keys?

[Uncircumcised Coke Can]

(01-13-2016 06:11 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

What if the Iranians had a massive naval base in Cuba (like the US does in Bahrain), and were patrolling around the Florida Keys?

Exactly.

Neocons (in both parties) are in gross denial as to who the aggressor is. We're in Iran's backyard. The only thing Iran did is defend their national sovereignty.

The fact there are Americans beating the war drums over this makes me just wanna put my head in the sand.

[robreke]

(01-13-2016 05:54 PM)Uncircumcised Coke Can Wrote:  

They violated Iran's territorial waters. That warrants an apology.

What about that is bothering you, exactly?

Or do you think being diplomatic make you some sort of pansy?

I'll defer to the vets and military guys on this. But it just doesn't seem to sit quite right.

At the very least, it's us looking a bit weak again in the eyes of the rest of the world. Obama has already damaged our military by installing feminists in top places and purging top proven warrior ( read masculine ) Generals that weren't to his liking like Stanley McChrystal and Gen. Petraeus and many others.

I don't think a war or even shots should have been fired over this per se, but it's just an incident of our military, what is supposed to be the most powerful military in the world, coming out on the bottom of an interaction. Apologizing, praising the Iranians in a supplicant way. Iran, who funds many terrorist organizations that have killed Americans throughout the decades, will now use this to show how they made "The Great Satan" cow themselves.

Iran is already reveling in the nuclear deal that our administration delivered to them. They ran diplomatic circles around us, got billions of US dollars from US taxpayers AND got everything they wanted and more in terms of nuclear proliferation ability.

This coming on the heels of that, is just not good. This will probably embolden Iran even more to see how far they can push the "rules" on the nuclear deal and see what they can get away with.

This is a huge propaganda victory for Iran. They are already saying in their media that 'the Americans were in sight of our missiles and knew if they resisted we would annihilate them'. Just plain shameful.

International law, from what I've read, dictates sending out your coast guard or navy if your waters are violated and asking the violators if they have a problem and directing them out of your waters. It doesn't involve capturing the soldiers, making them pose kneeling with their hands over their heads and incarcerating them for a day.

[Uncircumcised Coke Can]

Robreke,

Our military is doing just fine...

They've bulldozed through half the Middle East - killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in the process.

"The Great Satan" label is well-deserved.

Iran on the other hand hasn't done much harm to the world. I wouldn't worry about 'em.

[Prince of Persia]

The sailors' GPS broke down and so found themselves in the Persian Gulf. Iran followed protocol and did what any other sane country would do (take them in for questioning). The soldiers have said that they were treated kindly and, as another poster said, it's water under the bridge.

The mainstream media is at it again, trying to create drama out of absolutely nothing. Isn't it hilarious how they NEVER comment on Saudi Arabia's epic fuckups, but the US actually does something it shouldn't have, Iran reacts surprising well, and the Zionists attack Iran!?! Please. Never forget who the real enemy is.

Edit: Also, the same exact thing happened between Russia and Turkey a while ago (Russian plane coming into Turkish air space) and we all know how the Turks reacted- they shot down the fucking plane. But the MSM obviously doesn't blow that up, because "Russians are eeevilllll!!!!!111!"

[All or Nothing]

(01-13-2016 07:46 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I'll defer to the vets and military guys on this. But it just doesn't seem to sit quite right.

I don't think a war or even shots should have been fired over this per se, but it's just an incident of our military, what is supposed to be the most powerful military in the world, coming out on the bottom of an interaction. Apologizing, praising the Iranians in a supplicant way. Iran, who funds many terrorist organizations that have killed Americans throughout the decades, will now use this to show how they made "The Great Satan" cow themselves.

Iran is already reveling in the nuclear deal that our administration delivered to them. They ran diplomatic circles around us, got billions of US dollars from US taxpayers AND got everything they wanted and more in terms of nuclear proliferation ability.

This coming on the heels of that, is just not good. This will probably embolden Iran even more to see how far they can push the "rules" on the nuclear deal and see what they can get away with.

This is a huge propaganda victory for Iran. They are already saying in their media that 'the Americans were in sight of our missiles and knew if they resisted we would annihilate them'. Just plain shameful.

International law, from what I've read, dictates sending out your coast guard or navy if your waters are violated and asking the violators if they have a problem and directing them out of your waters. It doesn't involve capturing the soldiers, making them pose kneeling with their hands over their heads and incarcerating them for a day.

It is not supplication, it is diplomacy.

The Iran deal involved 6 countries, one of which is the US. It is difficult for the US to ask for completely self serving policies when such a large swath of highly powerful countries are involved.

There is no evidence of the leadership in Iran using this incident as propaganda. In fact, here is a quote from an NYT article released today:

Quote:

The sailors’ release was announced shortly before 10 a.m. on an Iranian state-run news channel, IRINN. “The detained U.S. sailors, after it was realized that their entry into Iran’s territorial waters was unintentional, and after the sailors apologized, were released into international waters in the Persian Gulf,” the channel reported, attributing the statement to the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps.

This appears to be the exact opposite of propaganda.

Link to article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/world/...middleeast

[robreke]

(01-13-2016 08:24 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 07:46 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I'll defer to the vets and military guys on this. But it just doesn't seem to sit quite right.

I don't think a war or even shots should have been fired over this per se, but it's just an incident of our military, what is supposed to be the most powerful military in the world, coming out on the bottom of an interaction. Apologizing, praising the Iranians in a supplicant way. Iran, who funds many terrorist organizations that have killed Americans throughout the decades, will now use this to show how they made "The Great Satan" cow themselves.

Iran is already reveling in the nuclear deal that our administration delivered to them. They ran diplomatic circles around us, got billions of US dollars from US taxpayers AND got everything they wanted and more in terms of nuclear proliferation ability.

This coming on the heels of that, is just not good. This will probably embolden Iran even more to see how far they can push the "rules" on the nuclear deal and see what they can get away with.

This is a huge propaganda victory for Iran. They are already saying in their media that 'the Americans were in sight of our missiles and knew if they resisted we would annihilate them'. Just plain shameful.

International law, from what I've read, dictates sending out your coast guard or navy if your waters are violated and asking the violators if they have a problem and directing them out of your waters. It doesn't involve capturing the soldiers, making them pose kneeling with their hands over their heads and incarcerating them for a day.

It is not supplication, it is diplomacy.

The Iran deal involved 6 countries, one of which is the US. It is difficult for the US to ask for completely self serving policies when such a large swath of highly powerful countries are involved.

There is no evidence of the leadership in Iran using this incident as propaganda. In fact, here is a quote from an NYT article released today:

Quote:

The sailors’ release was announced shortly before 10 a.m. on an Iranian state-run news channel, IRINN. “The detained U.S. sailors, after it was realized that their entry into Iran’s territorial waters was unintentional, and after the sailors apologized, were released into international waters in the Persian Gulf,” the channel reported, attributing the statement to the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps.

This appears to be the exact opposite of propaganda.

Link to article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/world/...middleeast

I see two problems with your response. No, actually 3.

#1. you don't seem to understand how the Iran nuclear deal is possibly a disaster down the road. At the very least a very raw deal for all involved except Iran, a state sponsor of terror.

#2. You cite the NYT. A highly leftist newspaper that does all it can to prop up and support the narrative of the current administration.

# 3. You seem to believe that the Fascist regime of Iran won't use this as a major propaganda piece. To not see this is naive.

Saying that "the US couldn't ask for such self serving politics with all of the other 'powerful' countries involved"

I'm sorry, but that quote is defeatist and rather pathetic. So, we're supposed to fast track Iran on the way to a nuclear weapon because we want to get along with these 'powerful' other countries. Screw that.

I'm not going to get into the workings of the Iran deal here as I don't have time. It's a terrible deal with no real teeth in terms of keeping a lid on their development of nukes.

Did you vote for Obama?

[Uncircumcised Coke Can]

^Did you vote for Bush?

[Prince of Persia]

(01-13-2016 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 08:24 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 07:46 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I'll defer to the vets and military guys on this. But it just doesn't seem to sit quite right.

I don't think a war or even shots should have been fired over this per se, but it's just an incident of our military, what is supposed to be the most powerful military in the world, coming out on the bottom of an interaction. Apologizing, praising the Iranians in a supplicant way. Iran, who funds many terrorist organizations that have killed Americans throughout the decades, will now use this to show how they made "The Great Satan" cow themselves.

Iran is already reveling in the nuclear deal that our administration delivered to them. They ran diplomatic circles around us, got billions of US dollars from US taxpayers AND got everything they wanted and more in terms of nuclear proliferation ability.

This coming on the heels of that, is just not good. This will probably embolden Iran even more to see how far they can push the "rules" on the nuclear deal and see what they can get away with.

This is a huge propaganda victory for Iran. They are already saying in their media that 'the Americans were in sight of our missiles and knew if they resisted we would annihilate them'. Just plain shameful.

International law, from what I've read, dictates sending out your coast guard or navy if your waters are violated and asking the violators if they have a problem and directing them out of your waters. It doesn't involve capturing the soldiers, making them pose kneeling with their hands over their heads and incarcerating them for a day.

It is not supplication, it is diplomacy.

The Iran deal involved 6 countries, one of which is the US. It is difficult for the US to ask for completely self serving policies when such a large swath of highly powerful countries are involved.

There is no evidence of the leadership in Iran using this incident as propaganda. In fact, here is a quote from an NYT article released today:

Quote:

The sailors’ release was announced shortly before 10 a.m. on an Iranian state-run news channel, IRINN. “The detained U.S. sailors, after it was realized that their entry into Iran’s territorial waters was unintentional, and after the sailors apologized, were released into international waters in the Persian Gulf,” the channel reported, attributing the statement to the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps.

This appears to be the exact opposite of propaganda.

Link to article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/world/...middleeast

I see two problems with your response. No, actually 3.

#1. you don't see how the Iran nuclear deal is a disaster down the road. Or at the very least a very raw deal for all involved except Iran, a state sponsor of terror.

#2. You cite the NYT.

# 3. You seem to believe that the Fascist regime of Iran won't use this as a major propaganda piece. To not see this is naive.

Saying that "the US couldn't ask for such self serving politics with all of the other 'powerful' countries involved"

I'm sorry, but that quote is defeatist and rather pathetic. So, we're supposed to fast track Iran on the way to a nuclear weapon because we want to get along with these 'powerful' other countries. Screw that.

I'm not going to get into the workings of the Iran deal here as I don't have time. It's a terrible deal with no real teeth in terms of keeping a lid on their development of nukes.

Did you vote for Obama?

You are absolutely right to criticize the government of Iran, but don't think the US neocons aren't trying to brainwash us either.

[robreke]

(01-13-2016 08:41 PM)Uncircumcised Coke Can Wrote:  

^Did you vote for Bush?

So you did I'm guessing.

As for me, I damn sure didn't vote for Obama. Further, the very first time I laid eyes on him when he was an unknown senator and they were bandying his name about, the first word out of my mouth was "No"

The reason I said this was because they were putting a stream of things he supported and his extreme leftists positions.

I honestly didn't care for the fact that he had a Muslim name either since we were at war with radical Islam.

In my estimation, I'm more right than I ever wanted to be. I believe he's been terrible for the country.

I voted for Bush the first time but his second term I sat out. He was far from perfect and made bad mistakes I admit, but one thing you can say about Bush; He didn't do his best to aggressively dismantle the country and "transform" it into some leftist Utopia like Obama is.

[el mechanico]

President Mech: let our sailors get picked up within 45 minutes our ill blow Tehran to holly hell in one hour from now you clowns.

[Prince of Persia]

(01-13-2016 09:04 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

President Mech: let our sailors get picked up within 45 minutes our ill blow Tehran to holly hell in one hour from now you clowns.

Do you even understand the full story? Lol, if the Russians drove into US waters unannounced, how the fuck do you think we would react?!

I was scared shitless just waiting for Iran to try and mess with the sailors, but thankfully for both parties nothing happened. I honestly doubt the mental stability of whoever is jumping at the chance to start WW3 w/ Iran + allies over this. Did you live underneath a rock during the Bush cuck-ministration and just conveniently ignore what countless pointless wars did to our world??

[el mechanico]

(01-13-2016 09:22 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 09:04 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

President Mech: let our sailors get picked up within 45 minutes our ill blow Tehran to holly hell in one hour from now you clowns.

Do you even understand the full story? Lol, if the Russians drove into US waters unannounced, how the fuck do you think we would react?!

I was scared shitless just waiting for Iran to try and mess with the sailors, but thankfully for both parties nothing happened. I honestly doubt the mental stability of whoever is jumping at the chance to start WW3 w/ Iran + allies over this. Did you live underneath a rock during the Bush cuck-ministration and just conveniently ignore what countless pointless wars did to our world??

Id blow there asses back to the Stone Age as well.

[Uncircumcised Coke Can]

Robreke,

No, I don't participate in staged elections as a rule of thumb.

Obama is merely continuing Bush's big government & aggressive foreign policy. I don't know why so many conservatives fail to grasp that.

Bush started the police state, the massive deficit spending, the foreign entanglements,etc...He set terrible precedents for the country whilst claiming to be a conservative.

Now that Obama has carried on those policies...every "right-winger" is throwing a hissy fit over it. Where were they with Bush?

[Prince of Persia]

(01-13-2016 09:25 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 09:22 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 09:04 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

President Mech: let our sailors get picked up within 45 minutes our ill blow Tehran to holly hell in one hour from now you clowns.

Do you even understand the full story? Lol, if the Russians drove into US waters unannounced, how the fuck do you think we would react?!

I was scared shitless just waiting for Iran to try and mess with the sailors, but thankfully for both parties nothing happened. I honestly doubt the mental stability of whoever is jumping at the chance to start WW3 w/ Iran + allies over this. Did you live underneath a rock during the Bush cuck-ministration and just conveniently ignore what countless pointless wars did to our world??

Id blow there asses back to the Stone Age as well.

Sorry, but it's hard to take anything you say seriously when you can't even use grammar or spell correctly.