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Shorting the Chinese Currency
#26

Shorting the Chinese Currency

The yuan should depreciate on the medium term against the dollar in my opinion, but it should not do so in a smooth manner. You will need a lot of capital to absorb the losses if the position goes temporarily against you, making this trade not straight-forward.

The yuan recently joined the IMF currency basket (joining EUR, GBP, USD and JPY), which is widely considered to be a first step towards becoming a free-floating market currency one day. Chinese officials want this do happen, but they do no want it to happen too fast. Sudden changes are bad for the economy. So they will defend the currency it it free falls, and they have already started doing so.
For instance, a few weeks back, they intervened massively in the CNH offshore market and spiked the overnight borrow cost to disproportionate levels, making it prohibilitely expensive to put on shorts.
CNH overnight interest rate spikes

They have been selling their dollar reserves at a faster than ever rate to defend the yuan, but their reserves are so huge that it doesn't matter for now. However most most of these reserves are in US treasuries, so all this selling may create turbulence in the treasury market. That's a possible trade idea.


If anything, I would go short the KRW instead of the yuan. It is a good proxy for the Chinese yuan. Recent Korean data has been poor, the central bank is maintaining statu quo but may do some further easing, while at the same time tightening has started in the US. On top of that the KRW is a free-floating currency, so no intervention in the market.


A comment on high-finance income as this has been brought up. While 25 million savings by age 35 is doable, and even more, you have to very high up in the distribution, top 1% or better. The income distribution in finance has a very fat right tail.
Base salaries are higher than in other industries, but not dimensionally, and no bonus years do happen.
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#27

Shorting the Chinese Currency

Looks like George Soros is starting to get in on the idea of shorting the Yuan as well:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016...ar-on-yuan

Quote:Quote:

Chinese state media has stepped up a salvo of biting commentaries against George Soros and other currency traders as the yuan comes under pressure, with the billionaire investor accused of “declaring war” on the unit.

At the annual World Economic Forum in Davos last week, Soros told Bloomberg TV that the world’s second-largest economy – where growth has already slowed to a 25-year low according to official figures – was heading for more troubles.

“A hard landing is practically unavoidable,” he said.

Soros – whose enormous trades are still blamed in some countries for contributing to the Asian financial crisis of 1997 – pointed to deflation and excessive debt as reasons for China’s slowdown.

The normally stable yuan, whose value is closely controlled by Beijing, has come under pressure in recent weeks and months in overseas markets and from capital outflows. Authorities have spent hundreds of billions of dollars to defend it.

China’s official Xinhua news agency on Wednesday said that Soros had predicted economic troubles for China “several times in the past”.

“Either the short-sellers haven’t done their homework or … they are intentionally trying to create panic to snap profits,” it said.

An English-language op-ed in the nationalistic Global Times newspaper blamed “westerners” for not “accepting responsibility for the mess” in the world economy.

The comments came after the overseas edition of the People’s Daily, the official mouthpiece of the Communist party, published a front-page article Tuesday titled “Declaring war on China’s currency? Ha ha” that was widely shared on Chinese social media.

Soros “publicly ‘declared war’ on China”, the paper said, citing the 85-year-old as saying that he had taken positions against Asian currencies.

“They say a lot of loud slogans, but do official media even know that Chinese investors are in hell?” said one poster on social media network Weibo.

“I’m afraid that Chinese investors will die in a stampede before Soros even shows his hand.”

In the 1990s Soros led speculators in bets against the Bank of England, which unsuccessfully sought to defend the pound’s exchange rate peg.

“The Chinese left it too long” to change their growth model from dependence on exports to a consumer-led one, Soros said, even though Beijing had “greater latitude” than others to manage such a transition because of its currency reserves, which stand at over US$3tn.

Though he may be a globalist shill, George Soros is fucking deadly when it comes to shorting currencies. There is a reason his reputation precedes him amongst the central bankers of the world, and why he's commonly known as "the man who broke the Bank of England."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

OP may be onto something rather sooner than we expected.

HSLD
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#28

Shorting the Chinese Currency

Soros stating that publicly makes me wonder what his intentions are. If his major goal was profit, he wouldn't want others getting in on the trade before it panned out. Perhaps the goal in and of itself is to give the impression of dollar strength and yuan weakness.
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#29

Shorting the Chinese Currency

Quote: (01-13-2016 08:23 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

Quote: (01-13-2016 01:24 AM)jj90 Wrote:  

It's actually quite straightforward. A good amount of FX brokers offer CNY/CNH cross pairs. You just have to google them up. Open an account and go. Really it's that simple.

IMO, I think there are better ways to play a yuan devaluation. Short Chinese equities, or equities in general. But if you believe the variance is better being short yuan, more power to you. For the record, I have no opinion on whether the yuan could go further down.

Be careful in FX land BTW, the dual regime of on/offshore yuan means things can get ridiculous. Google HIBOR Jan 11 2016. Good luck.

JJ90's got it.

There was crazy spread on between the on and offshore yuan last week. China desperately spending USD to keep the peg up.

I'm curious what would happen if the Chinese decide to end the USD peg. Would that be a healthy short?

Consider that the Chinese are not simply exchanging their US Treasuries in order to keep up the Yuan-Dollar peg, rather this is mis-direction so that they can decrease their hoard and transfer it to other places, because to transfer too much at one time will decrease the value of the treasuries they hold. Your curiosity is well founded as economic warfare is unfolding before your eyes. Shorting the current US dollar is not a good idea…now; and even when it becomes an opportunity there will be significant risk and safer ways to play it.
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#30

Shorting the Chinese Currency

I found this article to be very close to my thinking about China after living here for more than a decade. The top down waste is essentially incalculable. No one will ever know how much was stolen, wasted, burned through for no good reason. Hundreds of billions of dollars are tossed around, trillions over the years, how much was put into Swiss bank accounts, created entire super cities that are completely empty, how many steel plants that sit empty because steel production is already so overcapacity its hilarious.

Something to think about. I think China might have a complete collapse in the next 5 years. Economy in the tank, people rioting, etc.



http://observer.com/2016/02/ten-reasons-...gagements/


Ten Reasons China Failed: From Basic Gangsterism to Parasitic Engagements

What happens when liquidity is allocated by political muscle, massive bribery and kickbacks, rather than economics

By Jonathan Russo • 02/11/16 2:30pm


Not withstanding China’s epochal accomplishment in lifting over 300 million people out of poverty while building a world-leading economy, their future appears murky. What went wrong with China’s economy? Inquiring minds want to know. Here is a top ten guide for the perplexed.

1.Central Planning: Central planning, central planning. The history of the abject failure the Soviet Union’s five-year plans should tell you everything. Command and control economies that report to one man (in a nation of 1.3 billion people) are doomed from the start. Top down economic decisions often look bold and start out highly stimulative, but then degenerate into inefficiency, waste, politics and fraud.

2.Political Corruption: As the command and control economy generates liquidity, the demand and direction of the distributed capital becomes a political tussle. Decisions on how much steel, cement, coal, glass solar panels, high speed trains and shopping malls—in short everything—are not done in China as a cost benefit analysis by risk capital, a job difficult enough in itself. (Witness the capitalist economies’ booms and busts.) In China, this liquidity was allocated by political muscle, massive bribery and kickbacks, rather than economic justifications.

3.Basic Gangsterism: Counterfeiting, knockoffs, copyright infringement, theft of intellectual property – these were a part of the booster rockets of China’s economic rise. It was all supposed to go away after China joined the WTO in 2001. It didn’t. It just became more institutionalized. Foreign companies needed Chinese “partners” in auto production, healthcare and technology. These “partners” crippled the potential productivity of the investments and led to frequent disputes and even more corruption… as in the GlaxoSmithKline scandals.

4.Parasitic Global Engagements: When China enters a market, the intention is to destroy indigenous competition. From American to Nigerian to Turkish textile jobs—all down 90 percent—local earning power is destroyed. Everywhere and in every area—again it’s steel, aluminum, solar panels, toys and electronics—China hollows out local production. This unbalanced mercantilism, and its resultant loss of customer purchasing power, is what lies behind disappearing Chinese exports. Witness Walmart closing 269 stores. The parasite has weakened its host. All the cash spent on Waldorf Astorias and Manchester soccer teams will not make up for the massive purchasing power drain… inflicted on a global scale.

5.FOREX Constipation: Parasitic global trade imbalances and capital controls created a mountain of cash that was held by the Chinese Central Bank. Like the European mountain of butter or the lake of wine, China accumulated trillions of excess foreign cash. This capital was removed from the more productive capitalist countries, who became debtors to China. In return, China recycled this excess cash into unproductive financial instruments like US Treasury Bills and Euro Bonds.

6.Binge Investing: Having embraced items 1-5 above, China became a binge investor in absurd countries and silly projects. As if to poke the U.S (its largest single-country trading partner) in the eye, China sidled up to Venezuela of all places. Instead of buying oil on the open market, they went deep into infrastructure projects, loans and even endorsed the psychotic foreign policy rantings of Hugo Chavez. No rational government, unless intoxicated by its economic prowess, would do that. The China Syndrome was also applied to Sudan, Zambia, Angola and Nigeria. Look at the bankrupt failed resort in the Bahamas, Baha Mar, if you want to see what “binge capital” looks like.

7.Reading Marx backwards: When Deng Xiaoping, China’s “paramount leader” opened the economy to the world in the late 1970’s he could not have imagined it was to create a Chinese class of one percenters. Opening up China was meant to counterbalance Russia and Japan, to give China a chance to have a voice on the world stage. The nation was just recovering from the political and economic quagmire of the Cultural Revolution… Now, these one percenters control over sixty percent of Chinese assets. They buy Bordeaux Chateaus, Hermes handbags and Impressionist paintings. In the process, they’ve created instability. An attempt to redress this is motivating the anti-corruption campaign of Xi. However, it is more like a power realignment, Al Capone style, than real political reform. Even the disappearances are 1920’s Chicago in nature.

8.“To get rich is glorious” is also attributed to Deng Xiaoping. What he did not say was how. Thus China has been engaged in a forty-year orgy of land theft, labor theft, asset theft and every imaginable kind of shady business practice. From contaminated milk, pet food, and cooking oil, to criminally inadequate cement, adulterated drugs and corrupt zoning decisions, the Chinese have elevated greed to a new level. No one believes any of the listed ingredients in Chinese foodstuffs or medicine. Everyone has to pay off someone to receive the basics of medical treatment, education, or influence regulation.

9.Reckless Gamblers: How did China’s debt-to-GDP ratio go to 240% from 160% in nine years? How are nonperforming bank loans (if honestly tallied) hovering around 20 percent? There is a recklessness in early stage wealth. It happened in England in the 18th century as exemplified by the South Sea’s fraud and a hundred frauds like it. The recent Sino-Soviet forest stock fraud is an exact mirror. Rapid wealth produces intoxicated investors prone to scams. Remember how the Earl of Grantham in Downton Abby invested a fortune in a fraudulent American railroad. I wonder if there is a Chinese translation of Trollope’s The Way We Live Now?

10.Lack of Freedom: This is what lies at the heart of points 1-9. There are no institutions like free press, academia, or opposing political parties that can stop the train of failure once it has left the station. Even six-second videos are blocked and censored. This means that all bad decisions are made in a vacuum. Paradoxically, without the rule of law, paralysis has recently set in because one mistake, as judged by someone above you, can result in jail, torture and death. The search for corruption in an economy based on corruption has to be political… otherwise everyone would be in guilty. Nothing can ever be fixed in China until there is freedom. The freedom to publish dissenting opinions, differing analysis and to expose fraud and corruption.

The world has embraced China. Let us hope it is not strangled in the process
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#31

Shorting the Chinese Currency

While I don't disagree with the basic premise of the above mentioned article, there is a very clear slant/bias to it. Understanding different cultures and mindsets around the world is key to success, but underlying it all is basic human nature. The last 30 years in China is really no different from the 1800s in the US, or British colonialism. No holds barred expansion.
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#32

Shorting the Chinese Currency

@ball don't lie,

Do you see yourself leaving China soon? Where will you head to next?
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