[CPG]

I've just hit my 2nd year anniversary of using a home-made helmet for low laser light therapy to treat male pattern baldness, and as I've been happy with my results I want to share it with the forum. I searched around and saw almost nothing on RVF about LLLT, and as it's a solid alternative for people who suffer propecia/finasteride side effects it should be better known.

TLDR Version
LLLT is a potent hair growth enhancer and can save you from drug solutions, though it takes some cost and work to build your own. For a decent helmet I'd budget $1K, though once built it should last you years with a little maintenance and occasionally replacing a burned out diode.

It works as a growth stimulant so for best results pair it with a DHT inhibitor. I can't recommend propecia/finasteride due to the sides (which absolutely affected me), though if you can get away with it that's a powerful combo. I'm currently testing it along with RU58841 (a topical anti-androgen that prevents DHT from binding to hair follicles) and that combo seems strong as well though I haven't ran the RU long enough to fully evaluate it.

My Background
I've dealt with hair loss for years. When I first noticed it putting a dent in my hair line at 25 I got on propecia and it did do the job (basically stabilizing my hairline), however, over time it became obvious it caused me side effects. I stopped using it briefly and felt much more vital, so I couldn't resume taking it. Problem is, my hair loss picked right up starting with a massive shed.

After living in denial for a year and a half I realized I'd either have to find an alternative or eventually embrace the razor. I searched online and read up on people using LLLT for hair loss and saw quite a few positive reports. After a lot of procrastinating and doubting I ordered a set of diodes, paid John of overmachogrande.com to build me the helmet base, then installed and wired the diodes on my own.

Why LLLT?
Laser therapy is a known treatment for skin injuries and scarring, as well as acne. There has also been quite a bit of research on it for hair loss, and it's FDA approved for that purpose.

The exact mechanism for dealing with hair loss isn't known, though there are plenty of hypotheses. In short, it works by encouraging follicle growth and doesn't directly interact with DHT (the main antagonist of hair loss). In some men that's enough as the LLLT stimulates growth faster than male pattern baldness causing loss, though for many they need other treatments as well.

Here are some relevant recent studies, all also looking at home-made helmets:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23551662 (2013): looked at using helmets with diodes of wavelengths 630, 650, and 660 nm. The control group showed no change while the various helmets made a positive difference. Note that the home-made helmet I use employs 650 nm diodes, as those are the ones most supported by research

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24078483 (2014): another one looking at home-made LLLT helmets, this time with a wavelength of 655 nm. Also showed clear benefits over the control group

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23970445 (2014): continues the trend, showing a variety of different wavelengths though again they centered on the 600-nm range

Results
I first noticed a change within two months: after quitting propecia my hair quality went downhill (in addition to thinning out it was lacking luster), and after using the helmet I noticed it was getting glossier and looked thicker despite no immediate regrowth.

Within six months I could tell my hair was staying in the growing phase more often with fewer sheds, and the top of my scalp that was threatening to show a bald spot thickened enough that I stopped worrying about it.

Approaching the two year mark, the helmet has basically stabilized my scalp but hasn't been enough for my hairline, which has receded noticeably since starting. That lines up with what I've read about other men's experience, where some report that LLLT is good for diffuse thinning across your scalp but is less effective for aggressive hairline receding.

I still haven't had to work my hair style around hair loss and the helmet has allayed my concerns about thin areas showing, so I consider that a win as there are no side effects with LLLT. For someone with mild hair loss I expect it'd do the job on its own, and for someone with more aggressive male pattern baldness like me they need to combine it with something else

As it is, I have a somewhat receded hairline (roughly a Norwood 2 though it was trending towards 2.5 before I added the RU) and no visible thin areas on my scalp so hair loss is under control. I'm counting on it staying that way until cloning or other more permanent fixes come on the market.

Using the Helmet
The actual use of the helmet is a little inconvenient but easy to fit into your general routine. You should wear it three times a week for 20 minutes, after thoroughly washing your hair. The fellow who built the helmet sent me a list of other topicals to use with it, though I found the extra items too cumbersome so I dropped them from my routine.

I usually wear it on Sun/Tues/Thurs, adjusted by one day if I have a night out planned on one of those evenings. In a busy week with many nights out, I'll give my hair a wash in the middle of the day and wear the helmet followed by in the evening showering to go out as normal. Otherwise, I put it on while watching TV or reading, and set a timer for 20 minutes. If you're going out in public, you will definitely want to rinse and style your hair after wearing it as it effectively gives you bed head.

Traveling with it is a pain. It's not fitting in a laptop bag, so you either need a second piece of carry-on luggage or will need to ship it separately. I've only taken 1 or 2 week trips since using it so I've simply done without it while on the road, however, if you're frequently doing 1 or 2 month stays in various countries you'll need to find a way to transport it around.

Building the Helmet
If you're the crafty sort you can build the base of the helmet yourself. There's a set of instructions at http://www.overmachogrande.com that takes you through the process, as well as having a bulk order form for the diodes.

I tried building mine and had a disastrous time of it, and ultimately hired John of that site to build me the base. He did so for $150, though I don't know if the price has changed and if the service is still available now. I ordered 330 Aixiz 650nm diodes for $990 via the bulk order form, and I followed the instructions to wire all the diodes.

It took an eternity--I got through an entire season of Community while painstakingly installing each diode and wiring it--so if I did it again I'd pay someone else to do the work.

Finally, I bought a Mouser 23.1W 3.3V 7A adapter for $40 to power it, which will handle far more than my 330 diodes (I think it supports roughly 400 but would need to double-check the math)

Since then, I haven't spent any money on it. At the two year mark it's time for some maintenance so I'm going to check out the helmet and replace any burned-out diodes. I have had to tighten and reconnect wires over the years, as those occasionally come loose. I try to do a spot check of the diodes every couple months while wearing eye protection to make sure I still have good coverage.

So, if you want to put one together I suggest the following:
1. Read up on the info on that Over Macho Grande site. Some of it is getting dated--I don't think he's updated his LLLT studies section in a while--but it will give you a solid understanding of LLLT

2. Buy the diodes from Aixiz using the bulk form off the site. I bought mine piecemeal so I didn't get the best price on it, if you do a large order up-front you should be able to get the cost down compared to what I paid. Follow the guides on the OMG site for how many diodes you need...I've been satisfied with the 330 I ordered, I'm considering getting more for back-of-the-head coverage.

3. Either build the helmet yourself or have John from that site do it. If you have the budget and are hiring him anyway, I'd ship him the diodes and let him handle the wiring. You can do it yourself, it's just time-consuming and tedious.

4. Get a power supply. The Mouser here (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean...Jy0Q%3D%3D) is a good choice for 100+ diodes, as long as you're not doing some 500 diode monster

5. If you're wiring it yourself, follow the wiring equipment suggestions on the site and use the errata below. Make sure you get the right gauge, if you use too thin of wires for a large number of diodes you won't get proper coverage as some of your diodes won't be sufficiently powered. The whole point of LLLT is "enough power for enough time" so having faulty wiring will kill your results.
John sent me this errata for the site instructions after I told him I was going to wire it myself:

Quote:

Here is the "Wiring of the Laser Messiah" document, and just a reminder ...THIS IS OUTDATED (and I will explain how): http://www.overmachogrande.com/files/wir...essiah.pdf

What you are going to do is IGNORE everything about "switchable zones", "establishing the zones", the "flux capacitor", and the 22 gauge wire! So, what you are going to do is basically just look at the pictures and get the feel for this.

You will want to look at page 4, and there is a section called "SECTION 2: An Overview of Wiring, and establishing the terminology...". Read that, and you'll understand EXACTLY what I'm talking about in the WorldHairLoss.org thread with the updates, which is here: http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.html/f.../235/#2093

Basically (and like I said... this will make sense after you read the document), you will ideally use 18 gauge for the Level Twos, 14 gauge for the Level Threes, and 12 for the end pieces. Ok, you don't HAVE TO use wire that thick -you can use 22 gauge for the level twos, and you could probably use 18 gauge for the level threes, but I think it makes it a much better helmet if you do. You want to "make sure" that the diodes are getting all of the amps/volts they need.

I followed John's updated instructions and as far as I can tell all diodes are equally lit up.

Cheap testing alternative:
If you'd rather trial LLLT before jumping into the deep end you can do a test run using a modest 68 diodes and a hand-made wooden box for them. You will only cover roughly a third of your scalp, so you'd need to either move it three times for a total lasering time of 60 minutes or treat just a single region.

There are instructions on the over macho grande site for how to build a wooden frame for 68 diodes that you can try. The downside is that either you have an annoying long lasering time, or you give up potential results if you spend 3 to 6 months only treating a single area. Still, it's a lot easier to gamble $300 or so than $1K so it's an option to consider.

I originally tried the 68 diodes wooden box and quickly realized it was impractical, and I'm glad I made the jump to full helmet.

Commercial Alternatives
There are a number of pre-built laser devices out there. Unfortunately, they pretty much suck.

The Hairmax comb was the original and has FDA clearance (though not approval!) for hair loss, and you can find studies such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24474647 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19366270 supporting it.

The issue is the hairmax has only a handful of diodes and you need to move it by hand over your scalp. Their instructions call for holding it for only seconds per zone, which is way less than optimal. It's tedious as hell to use--I tried it for a few months and couldn't deal with it--plus less effective, so take a pass.

Here are the stats on the two pre-built helmets, compared with what you can do on your own:
Theradome -- 80 5mw 678nm diodes
iGrow -- 21 5mw 655 nm diodes
Home-made -- You should use at least 200 and can go to 400+ diodes, all rated at 5nm 650nm
Given the Theradome and iGrow are both pretty costly for less gain and aren't expandable in the future, I'd go for the gold and do my own. They don't have enough diodes for proper coverage. If you need to economize your helmet, you can start with a lesser amount of diodes to cover just your critical areas and then add more when you have the budget, which is a better long-term choice than getting one of these.

Lastly, there have been laser clinics for years with a solid track record. Problem is, they cost (last I checked thousands over a year) and you need to drive to their clinic for treatment. Given just wearing the helmet is inconvenient at times, I doubt going to a clinic three times a week is going to be sustainable.

My Current Routine
Finally, here's what I'm running now which seems to be a solid combination:
1. Regenepure (the most comfortable ketoconazole shampoo I've found, other formulas have been too harsh for daily use)

2. The LLLT helmet 3x times a week for 20 minutes

3. 1ml of RU58841 daily. I've only been using it for two months so I can't yet vouch for it, but so far I'm encouraged that it'll handle the anti-DHT part of hair loss treatment. I've noticed clear improvement since adding it to the mix.

Conclusion
LLLT is a less well known but worthy treatment that can replace the drug approach of finasteride and dusteride. If you're already using those the LLLT will augment your results, and if not it might be enough to do the job on its own.

You should get some kind of anti-DHT in your routine to support it, as otherwise it's going to be a war of attrition of LLLT growth stimulant vs DHT follicle destruction that might not go your way.

[el mechanico]

[Vincent Chase]

I've been using laser therapy for my hair in combination with minoxidil. I can definitely see a difference before and after.

I go to a dermatologist to do it he has one of those big machine which I sit in for half an hour each time, I have a session once a week. I don't know whether those cheap machines you can buy are as effective.

Here is some scientific evidence behind it:
http://www.dermnetnz.org/procedures/lase...-loss.html

[whateverfuckit]

1k is a lot of money to build it yourself when you can buy professionally made ones for under $500.

Is there some advantage to building one?

[PUA_Rachacha]

(01-10-2016 04:49 PM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  

I've been using laser therapy for my hair in combination with minoxidil. I can definitely see a difference before and after.

I go to a dermatologist to do it he has one of those big machine which I sit in for half an hour each time, I have a session once a week. I don't know whether those cheap machines you can buy are as effective.

Here is some scientific evidence behind it:
http://www.dermnetnz.org/procedures/lase...-loss.html

I bought a cheaper machine for about $600 with 108 diodes and have been using it since April of last year. Results: jack shit, have lost more hair.

I still use it because it's harmless, but I've jumped on the finasteride train. Let's see where I end up. I've used Rogaine in the past with great results, but it caused me to have ridiculous heart palpitations. Felt like I was going to have a heart attack at any moment. So I'm off for now, but may jump on later on if I'm willing to figure out how to control the sides.

Do you think the minoxidl had everything to do with your growth, or does the laser really help? I'd be willing to go to an office and shell out the cash if it really works.

[MrXY]

The one I made for my cat has produced excellent results

   

[PUA_Rachacha]

Needs more lasers!

[eatthishomie]

Will this reverse hair loss or just prevent it?

[whateverfuckit]

(02-17-2016 03:42 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

Will this reverse hair loss or just prevent it?

Supposedly, it stimulates the hair follicles, causing hair to regrow. Supposedly.

[CPG]

(02-15-2016 10:56 PM)whateverfuckit Wrote:  

1k is a lot of money to build it yourself when you can buy professionally made ones for under $500.

Is there some advantage to building one?

The advantage is better coverage. The commercial options that cost less than $500 provide far fewer lasers or coverage than you can do on your own. The downside is you need to either put in the leg work or get someone else to do it.

The current best commercial option you can buy--the Theradome--retails for $895, and unless there's a sudden drop in worldwide diodes cost you're not likely to get something decent for much less than that. That Theradome only has 80 diodes, while for the same cost you can triple that or more with a home built one.

Current research hasn't proven the ideal amount of diodes, wavelengths, treatment time, etc so maybe the Theradome's 80 is enough, maybe not. Not a risk I would take.

(02-17-2016 10:05 AM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 04:49 PM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  

I've been using laser therapy for my hair in combination with minoxidil. I can definitely see a difference before and after.

I go to a dermatologist to do it he has one of those big machine which I sit in for half an hour each time, I have a session once a week. I don't know whether those cheap machines you can buy are as effective.

Here is some scientific evidence behind it:
http://www.dermnetnz.org/procedures/lase...-loss.html

I bought a cheaper machine for about $600 with 108 diodes and have been using it since April of last year. Results: jack shit, have lost more hair.

I still use it because it's harmless, but I've jumped on the finasteride train. Let's see where I end up. I've used Rogaine in the past with great results, but it caused me to have ridiculous heart palpitations. Felt like I was going to have a heart attack at any moment. So I'm off for now, but may jump on later on if I'm willing to figure out how to control the sides.

Do you think the minoxidl had everything to do with your growth, or does the laser really help? I'd be willing to go to an office and shell out the cash if it really works.

I know you directed the question about Vincent's experiences to him so I won't comment on that, just a quick note that (similar to my answer to whateverfuckit) the cheaper helmet may have been too weak/too little coverage to do anything.

That's part of what's so frustrating about reading men's LLLT experiences, a lot of them tried the Hairmax comb with its meager handful of diodes, got nothing out of it, and assumed the whole treatment approach is bullshit. Likewise for the bad helmets, especially the first ones that hit the market.

Anyway, if you can use finasteride with no sides by all means go for it. LLLT does nothing for DHT levels on the scalp like the finasteride does, so everyone's regiment should have something to control those.

(02-17-2016 03:42 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

Will this reverse hair loss or just prevent it?

Depends on how well you respond, as is true for the other treatments (finasteride/minox/etc). If you respond at all it will help preserve what you've got left. Some have been more fortunate in seeing already miniaturized follicles start growing again and get back to being vellus hairs.

Some men have shown serious regrowth, others have just held the line. In my case it improved the hair quality of what I had with no clear regrowth. I'll take it though, beats the hell out of shaving.

(02-17-2016 04:03 PM)whateverfuckit Wrote:  

Supposedly, it stimulates the hair follicles, causing hair to regrow. Supposedly.

It's not supposedly at this point--the studies I quoted in the OP are just the tip of the iceberg. It definitely works, though we don't know the optimum treatment yet. It'd take an approach similar to new prescription drugs where they dial in the exact best dosage over time, though no one has yet done it.

The current studies keep experimenting with different wavelengths and diode coverage, for this to be as good a treatment as it can be they'll need to narrow down what combination works best, then someone will need to bring it to market or come up with steps to build it on their own.

Also, some men just don't respond to a given treatment. There are guys where finasteride is useless (official studies point to it being effective for 80% of men, still leaving 1 in 5 to get no benefit from it), minox is useless, etc...and LLLT is no exception. Luck of the draw, unfortunately.

[eatthishomie]

I'm still gonna shave but my receding hairline is obvious even when I shave. Would like to grow back the hair follicles just enough to be able to have a shaved head but not a visible receding hairline. I'll give this a look.

[Rush87]

Good stuff. Starting to have a little hair loss myself I've been learning a bit from my brother who has lost his hair completely. Looks like there are a few decent options nowadays. He was too far gone for this option and he actually got a 'hair tattoo'. Sounds absolutely ridiculous, but even under a microscope it looks just like a guy with a full head of head who decided to shave down. I guess if worse comes to worst it's not a bad option.

[whateverfuckit]

CPG:

Thanks for the response. Given your low post count and the age of this thread, I didn't think you'd reply. Glad you did.

Since the commercial variants out there are sad compared to what you can build yourself for the same (or less) money, what are the odds of someone like you producing home made versions and selling them? Knowing what I know now, I'd fell pretty dumb if I went and dropped 1k on a helmet with a sad amount of effectiveness when I could build one myself far better. That said, I have 0 electrical knowledge, so I wouldn't trust myself to build one myself.

[CPG]

(02-19-2016 02:33 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

I'm still gonna shave but my receding hairline is obvious even when I shave. Would like to grow back the hair follicles just enough to be able to have a shaved head but not a visible receding hairline. I'll give this a look.

(02-19-2016 07:28 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

Good stuff. Starting to have a little hair loss myself I've been learning a bit from my brother who has lost his hair completely. Looks like there are a few decent options nowadays. He was too far gone for this option and he actually got a 'hair tattoo'. Sounds absolutely ridiculous, but even under a microscope it looks just like a guy with a full head of head who decided to shave down. I guess if worse comes to worst it's not a bad option.

Rush87, the hair tattoo is exactly what I was going to suggest to eatthishomie! I've seen it before too, it's a good option for a shaved head. They call it micropigmentation and it's what I would do if I gave up on stopping hair loss. Mine's in check (LLLT + RU58841 is doing the job) but always good to have a backup.

(02-20-2016 03:13 AM)whateverfuckit Wrote:  

CPG:

Thanks for the response. Given your low post count and the age of this thread, I didn't think you'd reply. Glad you did.

Since the commercial variants out there are sad compared to what you can build yourself for the same (or less) money, what are the odds of someone like you producing home made versions and selling them? Knowing what I know now, I'd fell pretty dumb if I went and dropped 1k on a helmet with a sad amount of effectiveness when I could build one myself far better. That said, I have 0 electrical knowledge, so I wouldn't trust myself to build one myself.

You're welcome, I would have got back to you sooner if I hadn't changed my forum email to a burner after all the RoK 2/06 meetup chaos and had received notification of an update.

The unfortunate thing is though someone does produce the home made helmets (John of that site above, overmachogrande.com), he's unreliable and will disappear for months. He has health issues so I don't blame the guy, it just makes it hard to recommend him and was part of why I hesitated to post about this. If you're considering building it, it's worth emailing him to see if he's taking orders now.

I tried to build the first helmet on my own and had problems with the arts and crafts of putting the thing together, and I ended up emailing John when he could build the base. Once he did, I had him ship me the bare helmet and I was able to wire the diodes on my own despite no electrical skill.

The wiring comes down to just these steps:
1. Cut all the diode wires to a uniform length (I went with 3")
2. Use super glue to plug each diode into the holes in the helmet base
3. Get wire nuts and twist the wires from 8 diodes together at a time
3. Get at least 18 gauge wires to connect several clusters of 8 together
4. Get thicker wires (I used 14 gauge) to connect the clusters to your main wire nuts
5. Use a pair of thick main wires (I used 12 gauge) that go into the main wire nuts and connect them to your AC adapter

Once I got started it was easy, just tedious as all hell. Definitely keep some TV, music, or podcasts going to keep yourself from going insane.

If I lost my current one and I had to replace it while John's AWOL, I'd hit up Craigslist and find someone who does crafting for hire and pay them to build the base. The instructions on the OMG site work for anyone who does that kind of thing, I'd print them out and give them to anyone with basic skills who should be able to put it together.

[eatthishomie]

A hair tattoo.... that's brilliant. Any dangers or side effects?

[Rush87]

(02-20-2016 01:59 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

A hair tattoo.... that's brilliant. Any dangers or side effects?

Well my brother had it done and there are no side effects that come with it. I've sat there and tried to pick which areas are tattooed and which are hair and honestly, I cannot tell.

In terms of getting it done he said there are a few things to be careful of: You want to make it clear to the person performing the procedure that you want a 'soft' hairline. From what he told me, you don't want to go too straight.

What I noticed was just how remarkable the difference was. I mean, it's a tattoo, so yeah, you have to shave, but that shadow makes all the difference and frames the face.

As a for instance: The top of this guys head is actually tattooed instead of hair.



@ CPG: Do you have any links on RU58841 [I'm assuming it's experimental]. I'm currently on Propecia and holding onto a relatively full head of hair, but the side effects are real. A change would be great.

[CPG]

(02-20-2016 09:03 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

@ CPG: Do you have any links on RU58841 [I'm assuming it's experimental]. I'm currently on Propecia and holding onto a relatively full head of hair, but the side effects are real. A change would be great.

Yes, it's experimental--there have been a few drug companies that ran studies on it including one that had successful phase II trials, but none have brought it to market. I never found an official statement on why they dropped it, the hearsay is though it performed similar to finasteride it was considered too much of an uphill battle to dislodge Merck's hold on the market with propecia.

Unofficially, you'll find quite a bit of anecdotal support though it's at least as niche as LLLT. I was introduced to it from GLL Chris's article at http://www.gll-getalife.com/ru58841/ , and as his advice has yet to let me down I tried it out. In that blog post he links to several studies as well as some threads on his forum, and when I searched on my own what I read agreed with his findings.

I'm 4 months in and am satisfied, it's stabilizing my hairline which LLLT wasn't able to do on its own (LLLT stopped the free-fall shedding I had after dropping propecia, but the hair line still slowly receded). It's had no noticeable effect on my crown, though that area was already stable from the helmet so I wasn't expecting a change anyway.

Here's the short take on RU: it's an anti-androgen that binds to the same receptors as DHT does, so when you rub it into your scalp circulating DHT can't bind to hair follicles. On the downside, if you use too much it will spread to DHT receptors away from your scalp and can give you the same side effects as finasteride (or worse).

I was a little leery to try it--propecia caused me problems so I know messing with DHT can backfire on me--but using a single 1 mL dose daily hasn't given me any side effects.

Sourcing it hasn't been a problem, I use the pre-made formula from the research company that Chris linked to and it's arrived in my mailbox without fail each month. Technically it's for treating my lab subject's hair loss (certainly not mine) though I'm not worried about any fallout, it's neither performance enhancing nor fun to use in any way so I doubt there will be anyone lobbying to crack down on it.