[TheMaleBrain]

Just reread the book (have read it over a decade ago).

If you truly want to understand why things are happening in the Middle-East and the Arab/Muslim culture - this is the book you should read.

Here is a link to the wiki page, and amazon.

It's funny, because in his wiki page the author is mentioned as a conservative.
Having disillusion from the leftist dream that decolonization will bring prosperity, he decided to understand for himself why. He went to Egypt in the 1960s and traveled to other countries as well.
He came to the conclusion that there was something fundamentally wrong with the Arab culture.

In his 1989 book, way ahead of anyone he showed how the Arabs are still having a tribal conceptualization of nationality and have no common agreement other than of power struggle.

He writes how honor distorts everything in people relations, stopping the Arabs from developing less "drama" in their life. They must lie to save face, so a man's word is not worth much.
He also portraits how bribery is linked with career and calls it "money-grace" relations (you bribe someone and he helps you).
He goes one ruler after another to show that modern rulers were worse than their predecessors in using totalitarian methods to rule. If you did not have an iron fist, you lost to the one with the iron fist (He uses Iran as an example).

He sums it up that in the Arab/Muslim world there is no "greater good" or "common good". Islam is no longer a unifier but a divider, since anyone can use it as an excuse for power. A ruler cannot have an opposition, because he will be beheaded or exiled.

Price Jones believes that until the Arabs sort it out for themselves, one should be very careful dealing with them. Democracy is useless.
The Arabs are in a closed Circle, which they either will be forced out or try to force it on others.

[Alexandrian]

The biggest problem of the Arabs today is the victim mentality. We blame our problems on the imperial powers after WW1 and WW2 and the zionists. It may be true that this resulted in a troubled political atmosphere, but it is NOT an excuse to do nothing. I have always said that Arabs need to set their 'artificial' problems aside and confront all problems head on, but the average Arab just wants to have enough to eat for the day and watch TV afterwards.

They keep telling themselves this: "I just want to make enough money to feed myself and my family. The fact that my country is a mess is not my fault but the British/French/Zionists. Why should I solve this problem myself?" This mentality also keeps the totalitarian regimes in power.

[ColSpanker]

I read the book years ago. Funny thing, the person who recommended it to me is Lebanese.

[Quintus Curtius]

There are some good points brought out by the writer.
But the problem is that much of his analysis could be applied to other traditional cultures as well.

There certainly are major problems in the Arab world, but the reasons are more to be found with political and economic factors, rather something inherently wrong with the people themselves.

1. The constant interference by outside powers with the development of the region. Iraq in the 1970s and 1980s was actually a reasonably developed nation, by the standards of the region. If it had had decent governance, and if it had not been invaded and destroyed by outside powers, it would been well on its way to impressive things. I think the same could be said of Syria, before it was destroyed by outside aggression.

2. The terrible failures of Arab leaders to to the basics: develop the economies, control the birthrates, etc.

These are the big reasons. The point is that good leadership can do almost anything. But the problem is that it is lacking, and when it does come along, the good Arab leaders are immediately targeted by the West and Israel.

It all comes back to oil and Israel.

The people in that part of the world have had the misfortune of sitting on top of the resource that everyone wants, and everyone wants to control.

And you have a hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest country (Israel) constantly stirring up trouble.

The only thing the Arabs can really do at this point is hold the line, try to preserve their gains, and bide their time.

People there are patient. They are also very, very intelligent. More than people here give credit for.

[262]

(01-02-2016 01:10 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

The people in that part of the world have had the misfortune of sitting on top of the resource that everyone wants, and everyone wants to control.

Definitely true. If Iraq was about liberation and democracy, why haven't we done the same to, say, North Korea?

Oh, that's right, they have no oil.

But they do have big brother China, where most of the world's stuff is now made.

[PapayaTapper]

(01-02-2016 09:21 AM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  

He came to the conclusion that there was something fundamentally wrong with the Arab culture.

In his 1989 book, way ahead of anyone he showed how the Arabs are still having a tribal conceptualization of nationality and have no common agreement other than of power struggle.

He sums it up that in the Arab/Muslim world there is no "greater good" or "common good".

Imposed "nationalism" is the only way to suppress "tribalism" If a populace doesn't identify as "of" that nation then they see the bigger government as oppressor or occupier (many many examples of this). When looked at objectively "nations" are pretty happenstance, arbitrary and the concept of "nationalism" over "tribalism" didn't really get traction until the early 18th Century (Empires are a different animal)

Like it or not Saddam Hussein understood the dynamics at play better than W and his cabal of useless idiots. He (W) should of left the lid on the whole simmering anachronistic ideological shit pot. The world would have been better off

[TheMaleBrain]

Qunitus, I beg to differ

(01-02-2016 01:10 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

It all comes back to oil and Israel.
...
And you have a hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest country (Israel) constantly stirring up trouble.

Being an Israeli, I know I may not change your mind, but this is one-sided outlook - and from what I read, you don't strike me as such a person.
Israel "hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest" reputation is partially propaganda, and partially based on years of wars. This does not justify everything, but it is a classical "It's their fault" argument, or "It's my parents fault that I'm BETA/NO-GOOD".
You cannot blame everything on Israel and the West. The arab countries have most of "the blame" on them, as they can choose otherwise, but have failed to most of the time.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

^I agree with TheMaleBrain

There is a wide spectrum of nations and cultures around the globe, ranging from those that are quite successful to those that are completely dysfunctional. Obviously, the European nations prospered greatly in the 1700s through the 1900s, but they are not the only successful countries. The Arab countries have all the opportunities they need to be successful, and if they are not, it's their fault, not the Jooos.

I think the comparison with blue pill beta AFCs is apt. I was an AFC, and I sometimes blame my ex-wife or the blue pill message I was raised with. However, any failures I had in life were my own fault, and now that I see clearly, I'm straightening things out.

The Arabs have been blessed with fabulous oil wealth, and have more than sufficient opportunities to be economically and culturally successful. If they fail, that's on them.

[Quintus Curtius]

(01-02-2016 11:21 PM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  

Qunitus, I beg to differ

(01-02-2016 01:10 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

It all comes back to oil and Israel.
...
And you have a hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest country (Israel) constantly stirring up trouble.

Being an Israeli, I know I may not change your mind, but this is one-sided outlook - and from what I read, you don't strike me as such a person.
Israel "hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest" reputation is partially propaganda, and partially based on years of wars. This does not justify everything, but it is a classical "It's their fault" argument, or "It's my parents fault that I'm BETA/NO-GOOD".
You cannot blame everything on Israel and the West. The arab countries have most of "the blame" on them, as they can choose otherwise, but have failed to most of the time.

MaleBrain:

Thank you for your comment.

I would never go as far as the Arab nationalists go and blame everything on Israel. The Arabs need to accept the fact that their problems are ultimately theirs to solve.

The problems of the Arab world have been there for many centuries: the enervating fatalism, the sectarian animosities, the failure to build institutions that can meet the challenges of the modern world, and the crippling religious torpor that is preventing innovation.

All of that is real.

But on the other hand, Israel's foreign policy deliberately stirs up these weaknesses and exploits them for its own gain. There is also a side to the Jewish mindset that sees themselves as superior to their neighbors.

They don't respect their neighbors, they have nothing but contempt for them, and they do everything to keep their neighbors in a state of underdeveloped squalor.

We could say that this is the fault of the Arabs themselves, but I see zero goodwill emanating out of Tel Aviv to the other capitals of the Middle East.

I understand that every country pursues policies for its own advantage, and I suppose that if I were Israel I would also take advantage of my enemies' weaknesses.

But I'm just not seeing the sense of respect or goodwill. The bottom line is that Israel doesn't respect the Arabs because they are weak, disunited, and ignorant.

Kind of how the Jews were for many centuries in the West.

There was a time--in the early days of Zionism--when Jewish leaders actually had warm feelings towards their neighbors, and at least tried to build a better world with them.

Nahum Goldman, for example, is a great man who is now lost to history in the present climate of Likud-promoted hate-mongering.

You know it, and I know it.

The Semites--Jews and Arabs--have more in common than they do differences. But the Jews have made their choice to throw in their lot with the West against their Semitic cousins.

It is very sad. Oslo was the last chance, and that accord went to the grave with the murder of Rabin in the 1990s. Now all we have are extremists.

In any case, I would like to continue this dialogue.

[TheMaleBrain]

Qunitos

While I agree with some of your writing, I would like to point out the following:
1. Israel never tried to destroy or kill any Arab nation. The opposite is not true.
So - Imagine how you would evaluate such a situation.
2. Quoting you:

Quote:

they do everything to keep their neighbors in a state of underdeveloped squalor

Israel has offered repeatedly help in multiple industries starting from agriculture up to high-tech to it's neighbors (Jordan, Egypt). Talk with Israeli business people and they will tell you that their suggestions are mostly rejected. So eventually you tire of it.
3. With regards to warm feelings -
Unfortunately and repeatedly the Arabs have shown their lack of will to live together with the Zionist movement.
In 1882, when the first Alliya started there were about 140,000 persons in Israel (then part of the Syrian district of the Ottoman empire). 30% were Jewish.
Till WW1, the Arab population jumped more than 70% and their income also rose more than in any other country.
However, since that year (1882) were reports of attacking Jews, and terrorizing the new settlements (who were bought legally by the Jews).
When the British mandate started the violence rose to a new level. Every few years the local Arabs would kill tens of Jews in riots.

You can imagine how one would feel after so many years of such behavior.

Also - after 2 Israeli PM offered almost 100% of the west bank to the Palestinians (one time to their unchallenged leader - Arafat) and the other side just refused, we are less optimistic.

Fully agree with you about the extremist. However, Israel does not want to actually kill all of the Palestinian population, but the Palestinian national charter does not recognize Israel and wishes to abolish it.
That is one extreme demand. The Palestinian authority never backed down from the charter and still holds it as guidelines.

I believe that this generation is lost - there will be no peace in the near future. Maybe in the far future.

If you wish to continue the dialog, we can do it offsite or here.

[El Chinito loco]

(01-02-2016 11:21 PM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  

Qunitus, I beg to differ

(01-02-2016 01:10 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

It all comes back to oil and Israel.
...
And you have a hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest country (Israel) constantly stirring up trouble.

Being an Israeli, I know I may not change your mind, but this is one-sided outlook - and from what I read, you don't strike me as such a person.
Israel "hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest" reputation is partially propaganda, and partially based on years of wars. This does not justify everything, but it is a classical "It's their fault" argument, or "It's my parents fault that I'm BETA/NO-GOOD".
You cannot blame everything on Israel and the West. The arab countries have most of "the blame" on them, as they can choose otherwise, but have failed to most of the time.

Here's the problem. Both sides are made up of distasteful and influential parties who draw in larger world powers. Some arab countries are mere proxies and active pawns. Some are manipulating geopolitics in more uncomfortable ways than we want to admit such as Saudi Arabia.

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong historically speaking both are interfering with actual global stability. The arab and jewish world should be left to deal with their own issues without drawing in Russia, China, the U.S., etc.. into geopolitical world conflicts.

I find Israel's manipulation and focus on U.S. politicians and elite as part of its nation strategy to be particularly distasteful. Why should a nation of 8 million people hold such sway over a nation of 300+ million? it's preposterous and obvious corruption of another nation's sovreignty. However to be fair Israel is not the only nation that does this Saudi Arabia is also complicit in this activity. None of these nations should have a say in how U.S. foreign policy is conducted.

At the end of the day that's what I see..tiny foreign nations manipulating our politicians, media, and way of life for their benefit. The U.S. military has become this meatshield for Israeli and to a large extent sunni arab interests.

[262]

While I agree with El Chinito loco's post, I can also see a flip-side to it.

Let's go back in history. Should the US have entered either World War earlier than it did? Or should it have remained isolationist, and if so, to what extent?

The US answer to that since 1945 seems to have been, "the best defense is the best offense." Of course, that forces others such as Russia and China to respond in kind (if they hadn't come to the same conclusion before or in parallel), with those resulting economic and sometimes military conflicts spreading to other otherwise local conflicts, such as the split between Jews and Muslims.

My guess is the answer lies somewhere in-between that idea and El Chinito loco's. The West manipulates Israel, and Russia and China manipulate the Middle Eastern Muslim countries, to some extent, but Israel manipulates the West, and the Middle Eastern Muslim countries manipulate Russia and China, to some extent as well. To what extent the manipulations happen is debatable and subject to change.

[Traktor]

(01-02-2016 11:21 PM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  

Qunitus, I beg to differ

(01-02-2016 01:10 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

It all comes back to oil and Israel.
...
And you have a hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest country (Israel) constantly stirring up trouble.

Being an Israeli, I know I may not change your mind, but this is one-sided outlook - and from what I read, you don't strike me as such a person.
Israel "hyper-aggressive, neurotic, deeply dishonest" reputation is partially propaganda, and partially based on years of wars. This does not justify everything, but it is a classical "It's their fault" argument, or "It's my parents fault that I'm BETA/NO-GOOD".
You cannot blame everything on Israel and the West. The arab countries have most of "the blame" on them, as they can choose otherwise, but have failed to most of the time.

The establishment of the Zionist Jewish settler state of Israel at the expense of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Christian and Muslim Arabs and that state's subsequent behaviour has some way to do with Arab grievance towards the West.

You cannot blame said Palestinians for having a massive grudge against the so called state of Israel and demanding the right of return to their lands as stipulated under the Geneva Convention, i.e. international law.

That is just ONE of many examples. I am not saying that the Arabs are totally blameless but outside interference, military invasions, mismanagement and betrayal by foreign imperialist powers hasn't helped matters.

[Byzantium]

(01-04-2016 11:33 AM)Traktor Wrote:  

The establishment of the Zionist Jewish settler state of Israel at the expense of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Christian and Muslim Arabs and that state's subsequent behaviour has some way to do with Arab grievance towards the West.

You cannot blame said Palestinians for having a massive grudge against the so called state of Israel and demanding the right of return to their lands as stipulated under the Geneva Convention, i.e. international law

Muslims have no right of return to Israel/Palestine, because they themselves are invaders, colonizers, and occupiers of Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel/Palestine, Egypt, Libya, Sudan, etc. When Muslims colonists have been removed from all those occupied states, I suppose they can have the "right" to return to Saudi Arabia.

[Blobert]

Surprised at the amount of arab apologists here. Sure, they haven't been always treated fairly by outside powers, but then who has been? You can be sure they wouldn't, and don't, play nice to Christian and Jew countries if they were the stronger power.

Their societies are so dysfunctional not due to foreign influence or bad leaders, but because of the primitive mindset the arab commoners have. We should just accept you can't change a people overnight, not with carrot and not with stick. The message we should be sending to them is that whatever shit they are in now, it's their own responsibility to get out of it. And that they will be ruthlessly beaten down, be it by jews, christians, or one another, until they find a way to behave like civilized people. Israel should be a fucking rolemodel for these people, not a scapegoat to blame.

Or maybe what they need is proper Genghis Khan treatment to get them in line.

[Alexandrian]

(01-05-2016 01:51 PM)Byzantium Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 11:33 AM)Traktor Wrote:  

The establishment of the Zionist Jewish settler state of Israel at the expense of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Christian and Muslim Arabs and that state's subsequent behaviour has some way to do with Arab grievance towards the West.

You cannot blame said Palestinians for having a massive grudge against the so called state of Israel and demanding the right of return to their lands as stipulated under the Geneva Convention, i.e. international law

Muslims have no right of return to Israel/Palestine, because they themselves are invaders, colonizers, and occupiers of Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel/Palestine, Egypt, Libya, Sudan, etc. When Muslims colonists have been removed from all those occupied states, I suppose they can have the "right" to return to Saudi Arabia.

Egyptians are muslims and have every right to live in the land of their Pharaonic ancestors. You have a really weird logic. By your logic all christian Europeans should be expelled to Palestine.

Pick up a book or two, mate.

[Alexandrian]

(01-04-2016 07:14 AM)TheMaleBrain Wrote:  

Qunitos

While I agree with some of your writing, I would like to point out the following:
1. Israel never tried to destroy or kill any Arab nation. The opposite is not true.
So - Imagine how you would evaluate such a situation.
2. Quoting you:

Quote:

they do everything to keep their neighbors in a state of underdeveloped squalor

Israel has offered repeatedly help in multiple industries starting from agriculture up to high-tech to it's neighbors (Jordan, Egypt). Talk with Israeli business people and they will tell you that their suggestions are mostly rejected. So eventually you tire of it.
3. With regards to warm feelings -
Unfortunately and repeatedly the Arabs have shown their lack of will to live together with the Zionist movement.
In 1882, when the first Alliya started there were about 140,000 persons in Israel (then part of the Syrian district of the Ottoman empire). 30% were Jewish.
Till WW1, the Arab population jumped more than 70% and their income also rose more than in any other country.
However, since that year (1882) were reports of attacking Jews, and terrorizing the new settlements (who were bought legally by the Jews).
When the British mandate started the violence rose to a new level. Every few years the local Arabs would kill tens of Jews in riots.

You can imagine how one would feel after so many years of such behavior.

Also - after 2 Israeli PM offered almost 100% of the west bank to the Palestinians (one time to their unchallenged leader - Arafat) and the other side just refused, we are less optimistic.

Fully agree with you about the extremist. However, Israel does not want to actually kill all of the Palestinian population, but the Palestinian national charter does not recognize Israel and wishes to abolish it.
That is one extreme demand. The Palestinian authority never backed down from the charter and still holds it as guidelines.

I believe that this generation is lost - there will be no peace in the near future. Maybe in the far future.

If you wish to continue the dialog, we can do it offsite or here.

Zionists in the Middle East have always behaved the same way. Since day one they sent death squads like the Hagana and Irgun to ethnicaly cleanse Palestine from its native Semitic Palestinian population in favor of the Slavo-Germanic Yiddish invaders.

[Byzantium]

(01-06-2016 08:36 AM)Alexandrian Wrote:  

Egyptians are muslims and have every right to live in the land of their Pharaonic ancestors.

Muslim in Egypt are Arab invaders, what Egyptian blood they have, it is mostly from coerced converts, females raped and children raised Muslim. Coptic ("Egyptian") Christians are the pure blooded natives, because the gene flow was almost entirely one way, because Muslims becoming Christians meant death. Now, the Muslims in Egypt like to pretend they're ethnically Egyptian, so as to lay some claim to those pyramids, but that's a little hard to do with real Egyptians (Christians) still around, which is part of the reason for the anger behind the semi-regular outbreaks of persecution.

(01-06-2016 08:36 AM)Alexandrian Wrote:  

You have a really weird logic. By your logic all christian Europeans should be expelled to Palestine.

Europe was converted to Christianity almost entirely by choice (minus the Latin schism after 1054 aka "Roman Catholicism", but by the time they existed almost all Europeans were Christians of some type). Anything can you can cite would be exceptions that prove the rule.

Islam has always been spread by invading foreign ethnic group ever since the Prophet turned genocidal on the Arabian Jewish tribes.

(01-06-2016 08:36 AM)Alexandrian Wrote:  

Pick up a book or two, mate.

I'm good thanks. You could do with putting down the Koran and/or your multi-cult books though.

[Alexandrian]

(01-06-2016 01:05 PM)Byzantium Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 08:36 AM)Alexandrian Wrote:  

Egyptians are muslims and have every right to live in the land of their Pharaonic ancestors.

Muslim in Egypt are Arab invaders, what Egyptian blood they have, it is mostly from coerced converts, females raped and children raised Muslim. Coptic ("Egyptian") Christians are the pure blooded natives, because the gene flow was almost entirely one way, because Muslims becoming Christians meant death. Now, the Muslims in Egypt like to pretend they're ethnically Egyptian, so as to lay some claim to those pyramids, but that's a little hard to do with real Egyptians (Christians) still around, which is part of the reason for the anger behind the semi-regular outbreaks of persecution.

(01-06-2016 08:36 AM)Alexandrian Wrote:  

You have a really weird logic. By your logic all christian Europeans should be expelled to Palestine.

Europe was converted to Christianity almost entirely by choice (minus the Latin schism after 1054 aka "Roman Catholicism", but by the time they existed almost all Europeans were Christians of some type). Anything can you can cite would be exceptions that prove the rule.

Islam has always been spread by invading foreign ethnic group ever since the Prophet turned genocidal on the Arabian Jewish tribes.

(01-06-2016 08:36 AM)Alexandrian Wrote:  

Pick up a book or two, mate.

I'm good thanks. You could do with putting down the Koran and/or your multi-cult books though.

The Copts converted to Islam very quickly because of the religious presecution they suffered from the Byzantine occuppying forces. Coptic Orthodox Christianity was regarded as a heresy by the Byzantines. Not only the Egyptians were targets but also the Mesopotamian and Levantine Christians.

12 years after the introduction of Islam in our lands, a pure Egyptian Islamic army headed for the rest of Byzantine Africa to send the rest of the Younani's back to Greece.

Also, the Bedouin Arabs had by far not enough people to erase and replace the Egyptians, let alone all of the Middle East and North Africa.

Genetic analysis of modern Egyptians reveals that they have paternal lineages common to indigenous North-East African populations primarily (Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco), and to Middle Eastern peoples to a lesser extent—these lineages would have spread during the Neolithic and were maintained by the predynastic period.

Luis et al. (2004) found that the male haplogroups in a sample of 147 Egyptians were E1b1b (36.1%, predominantly E-M78), J (32.0%), G (8.8%), T(8.2%), and R (7.5%). E1b1b and its subclades are characteristic of some Afro-Asiatic speakers and are believed to have originated in either the Middle East, North Africa, or the Horn of Africa. Cruciani et al. (2007) suggests that E-M78, E1b1b predominant subclade in Egypt, originated in "Northeastern Africa", which in the study refers specifically to Egypt and Libya

Other studies have shown that modern Egyptians have genetic affinities primarily with populations of Asia, North and Northeast Africa, and to a lesser extent Middle Eastern and European populations.

Recent genetic analysis of North African populations have found that, despite the complex admixture genetic background, there is an autochthonous genomic component which is likely derived from "back-to-Africa" gene flow older than 12,000 years ago (ya) (i.e., prior to the Neolithic migrations). This local population substratum seems to represent a genetic discontinuity with the earliest modern human settlers of North Africa (those with the Aterian industry) given the estimated ancestry is younger than 40,000 years ago. North Morocco, Libya and Egypt carry high proportions of European and Middle Eastern ancestral components, whereas Tunisian Berbers and Saharawi are those populations with highest autochthonous North African component.

[Pride male]

I do respect some muslim social values like modest dressing and no drinking of alcohol.

[TheMaleBrain]

(01-06-2016 08:38 AM)Alexandrian Wrote:  

Zionists in the Middle East have always behaved the same way. Since day one they sent death squads like the Hagana and Irgun to ethnicaly cleanse Palestine from its native Semitic Palestinian population in favor of the Slavo-Germanic Yiddish invaders.

Alexandrian
Both the organizations you are stating were started almost 40 years after "Day One" (1882 beginning of the First Aliya).
You have got to be kidding on the "ethnic cleansing".

The next link is in Hebrew, but I'll translate some points, which are facts:

Quote:

In 1882, the land was not empty. There were 140,000 permanent residents, out of which 40,000 were Jews

Quote:

During the years 1870-1914, which overlap most of the early Zionist movement, the number of Arabs in the land grew by 71.4% (the highest in the region accept in Egypt)

I know that the Jewish people are not popular. We have made our effort to support this notion. But being here is also about finding out the truth and not just throwing around slogans.

One thing I will give you:
The west bank had quite a lot of Jews in 1948. None remained after the war. It was completely cleansed, by the Arabs.

If you want to continue the dialogue, we can do it offline (in PMs/email), or here. It is not my intention to attack, but to provide evidence supporting my side. I'm fully ready to acknowledge a lot of bad behavior on my country's part.

[TheMaleBrain]

One other thing:

Read this article.
It is a Palestinian Scholar, who is honest. Read what he says about his leadership and his analysis.

[CamelToe]

Male Brain I'm not surprised that you are living isolated and have been raised in a world full of propaganda but even by Jewish accounts the population of the Palestine was way higher than 140,000 in 1882.

according to Jewish Virtual library which isn't considered to be unbiased the population was 24,000 Jewish 276,000 Arab in 1882 300,000

Ottoman and British records show higher population of Palestinians which would be a more realistic/unbiased records.
"population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs"


Are you suggesting that Israel currently has good leadership?

Lastly, I would assume that your in-depth understanding of the Middle East comes from all the time you've spent in Arab countries?

[tomtud]

Lots of subtitled videos on a YouTube channel called memri tv. These videos are a library of shows, documentaries and talk shows in the Middle East that show a glimpse of Arab society. The problems in it and who is to blame.

[CamelToe]

MEMRI operates as one of the main sources of Israeli propaganda.... It's well understood and MEMRI isn't considered to be a reliable source among regional experts/policy makers. It was founded and is run by former IDF intelligence officials.

If you want to know about regional TV news then watch Mosaic as it's at least considered to be less fear mongering.