[fstrdnl]

So long story short I had fb wheeled a girl (or attempted to) awhile back in the summer time and she was only ghosting me at the time. Since the summer I have put on a lot of muscle and generally taken much more care of myself and posted some pics to demonstrate my new confidence etc and a lot of people have noticed, including her. Got a like from her and later on the day tried reviving it and messaged her a merry christmas. This ended up in me getting her number and organizing that we meet up.

The following day we ended up having a 4 hour date that started off good, great conversation, made her laugh a lot and she was very interested in my hobby (music producer) and she is interested in the type of music I make. Stopped at venue 1 and had a good time for an hour or so, then moved on to venue 2 and ended up holding her hand and had coffees together and learned a lot about her while maintaining kino. She had to be somewhere for 6 so I had to end up dropping her off at home, went for the kiss close and succeeded. There was almost no negativity about the date at all

I am totally dumbfounded but right after that she totally ghosted me and following morning dropped the friend card on me. What happened? It was probably the most successful date I felt i've had in months whereas less successful dates have resulted in me getting the bang or something further than a kiss close, however this one was different.

I will confidently move on but Im curious what the board has to say...

[PapayaTapper]

(12-28-2015 06:36 PM)fstrdnl Wrote:  

So long story short I had fb wheeled a girl (or attempted to) awhile back in the summer time and she was only ghosting me at the time. Since the summer I have put on a lot of muscle and generally taken much more care of myself and posted some pics to demonstrate my new confidence etc and a lot of people have noticed, including her. Got a like from her and later on the day tried reviving it and messaged her a merry christmas. This ended up in me getting her number and organizing that we meet up.

The following day we ended up having a 4 hour date that started off good, great conversation, made her laugh a lot and she was very interested in my hobby (music producer) and she is interested in the type of music I make. Stopped at venue 1 and had a good time for an hour or so, then moved on to venue 2 and ended up holding her hand and had coffees together and learned a lot about her while maintaining kino. She had to be somewhere for 6 so I had to end up dropping her off at home, went for the kiss close and succeeded. There was almost no negativity about the date at all

I am totally dumbfounded but right after that she totally ghosted me and following morning dropped the friend card on me. What happened? It was probably the most successful date I felt i've had in months whereas less successful dates have resulted in me getting the bang or something further than a kiss close, however this one was different.

I will confidently move on but Im curious what the board has to say...

Kissing isn't closing.

( I have to go so I'll elaborate later, and have questions as well, but that's the crux of your issue)

[Windom Earle]

Notwithstanding you couldn't continue things well into the evening, your failure rests squarely with you having not escalated to the full extent (i.e. toward sex).

Four hours of chit chat is too long as well, that's what friends do.

Never hold a chicks hand you haven't yet fucked. Kino is obviously recommended, but hand holding comes from a place of neediness.

In fact, too much kino (that doesn't lead to sex) will also backfire, even if she's the one instigating it. It allows her to receive the attention she wants without needing to give up her pussy.

E.g. I had a fantastic date with a virgin once, who instigated hand holding, and was fine with me having my hands all over her, including her upper thighs (this was in public, so no chance of escalating) who I also stole a couple of kisses from. That was the first and only date I had with her. Her reason for not continuing - she didn't feel a connection.

So, you can have what is seemingly a dream date, where you're certain they are smitten with you as much as you are with them all go up in smoke. This confidence will provide you with justification for actually not escalating toward sex, as your "nice guy" mode kicks in, where you believe you have ample time to re-engage on the next date.

Always treat the time together, no matter how well it is going, as your one and only chance of being with her.

A date that ends in sex will give you a far greater chance of seeing her again than a date that doesn't.

Edit: and don't contact her again, unless she contacts you first (and even then, be aloof).

[fstrdnl]

(12-28-2015 07:24 PM)Windom Earle Wrote:  

Notwithstanding you couldn't continue things well into the evening, your failure rests squarely with you having not escalated to the full extent (i.e. toward sex).

Four hours of chit chat is too long as well, that's what friends do.

Never hold a chicks hand you haven't yet fucked. Kino is obviously recommended, but hand holding comes from a place of neediness.

In fact, too much kino (that doesn't lead to sex) will also backfire, even if she's the one instigating it. It allows her to receive the attention she wants without needing to give up her pussy.

E.g. I had a fantastic date with a virgin once, who instigated hand holding, and was fine with me having my hands all over her, including her upper thighs (this was in public, so no chance of escalating) who I also stole a couple of kisses from. That was the first and only date I had with her. Her reason for not continuing - she didn't feel a connection.

So, you can have what is seemingly a dream date, where you're certain they are smitten with you as much as you are with them all go up in smoke. This confidence will provide you with justification for actually not escalating toward sex, as your "nice guy" mode kicks in, where you believe you have ample time to re-engage on the next date.

Always treat the time together, no matter how well it is going, as your one and only chance of being with her.

A date that ends in sex will give you a far greater chance of seeing her again than a date that doesn't.

++ I think you nailed it there, It was much too long and I think she viewed it as more of a friend thing. I have since replied and told her my intentions and left it at that.

[Vincent Chase]

The more you date the more you'll get used to it.

Women are absolutely ruthless in the dating market. You met meet one girl and think she's different. Don't think like that, western women all have the same underlying characteristics. They'll ghost you for any reason, and it won't necessarily be for anything logical either.

Yes kissing means nothing in today's world. I've had three or four recent bangs where they ghosted me after. Do I care, yes a bit but at least I won in those occasions. It's simply the case that you have to go for the bang as early as possible.

The only way to reduce ghosting and flaking is to be higher value - become more attractive and have better game.

I completely agree with the post above. Every date you have to treat like midnight is the end of the world. You either go for the bang or you don't and if it doesn't happen, particularly from online girls, then 90% chance you won't see her again regardless of how you or even her at the time think it went. I even make it clear in the girl's mind that's how I think by telling them I'm off on holiday/business trip the next day or something of that nature to make it clear that's it's all or nothing.

[Tigre]

(12-28-2015 06:36 PM)fstrdnl Wrote:  

...had coffees together and learned a lot about her while maintaining kino. She had to be somewhere for 6...

Ideally you want it to be after dark and with booze involved.

Could be that the afternoon and sober vibe contributed to the friendzone outcome.

[heavy]

All responses here are correct...no chance for sex going in, 4 hours for a kiss.

I would add, and this may disagree with other guys here...she's probably not a chic you would LTR anyway (not knowing any other details). Bang for sure, but if she were a chic you would LTR, she wouldn't have held it against you for wanting to get to know her (1st date kiss) before making sweet sweet love (2nd or 3rd date).

This made me laugh: "the most successful date I felt i've had in months whereas less successful dates have resulted in me getting the bang"

Reminds me of something my buddy said to me once: "Heavy, you do a lot better with girls you don't like at all"

[straightarrow]

Lunch date for me with implied afternoon cozy time. If they dont go for it I will not meet them.

One chick I met for lunch in the summer was a classic.
We met at like 11:30 drove into town looking for a place to eat. Found a place and it was pouring rain out. Sat in the car talking for like 30 minutes so I was pretty close to her quick. I cant even remember what we talked about. So we go in eat and I have like 2 beers and we talk some more. We leave at like 1:30ish and drive back to my car..I say to her well what do you want to do?? She said I dont know???? so I said well lets get a room and spend the rest of the day getting to know each other. She say sure and wants to.....at that point I touched her neck and played with her hair. By 2:15 we were both naked. I have a dog if I want a friend but we did become friends as time went on.
P.S. months later she tells me that first day sitting in the rain all she wanted to do was kiss me. We did not know each other 30 minutes.

[newbie123]

This reminds me of one of my worst dates. Had lunch with this girl (solid 8) a few times (I have short lunch breaks) then told her lets go for some beers after I finish work. She came and picked me up. We laughed a lot on our way. Went to a bar JUST UNDER my apartment. We had two beers and she kept telling me that she's a screamer in the sack. I didn't escalate. So she said, I have to go get ready for a party.

Lesson to learn: if you do not push for the close, someone else will and I bet this girl had tons of guys banging.

[PapayaTapper]

OP you should read Tuthmosis's thread Recipe for first date bang

Here's an excerpt

Quote:

Step 4. Absolutely do not kiss her. Do not, I repeat, go for the make-out at the venue.
This is the counter-intuitive part. There will be a logical time where it seems like you should, and could, go for the escalating make-out. Ideally, this will be around the time you've finished off a slow-paced first round of drinks. If you've played your logistics correctly, you will have settled your tab (by not opening one in the first place) on the first round, so you're free to leave the venue at any point.

But don't kiss her. You should imply (physically) that you might be starting to want to, but "haven't decided yet." This means giving the subtle physical cues--like the ever-so-slightly lingering eye contact above--not some sort of overt act. She'll likely be giving you some of her own cues that she's down, but don't do it. Of course, don't avoid it pussy-like, like you're scared to do it, but like you're steadily being won you over. Keep in mind that you're being gregarious and touchy the whole time, not awkward and uncomfortable. This is very subtle physical communication, but being in that state-of-mind will help to convey this emotion.

At around the 60 to 90-minute mark, I say something like, "hey, let's do round two somewhere else." You may get some, "I have to work (or class) the next day" resistance, that's why it's important to do it on the early side, since this early in evening, it's still too early to raise this concern. She can't argue with you.

This--if I haven't already done so--is where I suggest that we go to my place, so I can "make her that drink" or whatever bachelor-pad bait I've used that night. What's more, "I live pretty close from here anyway." She knows that I'm going to try something, because I've done everything in my power to subtly suggest it, but she can reasonably expect that that's going to be merely making out. A little private make-out session probably sounds good (and safe) to her, so she's more-than-likely going to be down.

This is where not spending your make-out token plays a big part. She has iron-clad plausible deniability that all you're looking for is a private place to make out with her, that's all. Because nothing's happened so far, she feels a lot less committed about going over to your place than if you'd already made out and the next thing on the escalation hierarchy has to be sexual.

The forum is littered with posts from guys with similar stories about a date going well, and then a girl ghosting. It's happened to most if not all of us.

Kissing isn't closing. In my book putting my meatsicle in one of the chic's holes and firing a batch is closing.

As guys we think that a kiss is progress and under the right circumstances it is. But playing that card other than when you are in the bang location is a critical mistake. As others have said a kiss means nothing to a western chic. By the time a cute one is early 20s she will have been "making out" with boys for a decade.

In summary always go for the bang as if it's your one and only shot. If you don't at least she'll know your not another "nice" (read boring) guy.

The trick is to make them know that you really want to fuck their brains out...but don't really care if you don't. That's the combo that keeps the "tingles" going necessary to produce a 2nd date

[OregonToSoCal]

(12-28-2015 06:36 PM)fstrdnl Wrote:  

So long story short I had fb wheeled a girl (or attempted to) awhile back in the summer time and she was only ghosting me at the time.

She already flaked on you once before, likely due to low interest. I wouldn't have even given her a second chance after her doing that to me once.

(12-28-2015 06:36 PM)fstrdnl Wrote:  

She had to be somewhere for 6 so I had to end up dropping her off at home

Did you know ahead of time that she had to leave at 6? In the future if you know that you won't be able to close the deal on the first date due to time constraints, logistics or a feeling that she's not a first date bang kind of girl, keep the date short, no more than 2 hours max (preferably shorter) don't kiss her and be the one to cut it short due to you having other plans.

(12-28-2015 06:36 PM)fstrdnl Wrote:  

I am totally dumbfounded but right after that she totally ghosted me and following morning dropped the friend card on me. What happened?

I'm assuming it was you who reached out to her the next morning? Bad move. Unless she contacts you first you should not be reaching out to her for at least 2 or even better 3 days post date. There's varying opinions of this on the forum but I have never been successful contacting a girl the very next day after meeting her. Part of the attraction process is allowing her hamster to start spinning, wondering where she stands with you and whether you're going to contact her again. By you texting her the very next morning it screams neediness, lack of confidence and you wanting to lock her down. Considering the fact that she already flaked on you once when you first met her, you have very little margin of error to work with.

[HankMoody]

The date didn't actually go as well as you thought it did, and she's not all that attracted to you. Then you put the nail in the coffin by sending a text message the next morning. She's supposed to be sitting at home wondering if you're interested in her, not the other way around. That text message screamed "Hey, uh, I like you a lot. Do you like me? I sure hope so!"

Also something to keep in mind - just because you make a girl laugh, she tells you about herself, and you have an interesting conversation does not necessarily equate to attraction.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(12-29-2015 02:10 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

The date didn't actually go as well as you thought it did, and she's not all that attracted to you. Then you put the nail in the coffin by sending a text message the next morning. She's supposed to be sitting at home wondering if you're interested in her, not the other way around. That text message screamed "Hey, uh, I like you a lot. Do you like me? I sure hope so!"

Also something to keep in mind - just because you make a girl laugh, she tells you about herself, and you have an interesting conversation does not necessarily equate to attraction.

I fail to see the point of an actual "date" in the first place.



Your only option these days is to go for the immediate bang. Why waste time, money, and most of all, validation on some vapid cunt?

[straightarrow]

I meet a chick online not a real good profile but close by me. We talk via txt then on the phone. Next day meet for lunch. Im early and she shows up a little late. She gets out of her car and im like wtf...dude no way...5 ft 2 100lbs soakin wet. She says she is 42 looks 30ish. Anyway she has short boots on and a thigh gap omg to die for.
I hug her and tell her im so glad she is taller than her pic look...makes her laugh.
Go inside order lunch I have beers and we talk..a little nervous I think she was but she was nice. We talked about our jobs and her divorce just a bit.
We get up to leave and she walks in front of me and im like no way ..she had tight blue pants on and it was hard to keep cool.
now out in the parking lot we hugged and we did kiss ...I know not good. I could tell she liked it.
now later she txt me and said the kiss made her melt...
im like to myself great but her schedule is not good. So I figure im never gone to see her again. Wrong, the next day she txt me and says meet me at this hotel at this time...im like sure. I always tell them to wear a nice dress and heels.
She shows up late wearing a cute dress but has flats on...oh well she wants to be boss. Nos we go in and she rents the room..250 bucks nice place...this chick has a little money. Now we get in bed and I could tell she had not done it in some time. It was fantastic and a great spinner.
now she wants me to come back in the morning and do it again for a couple of hours. I did the next morn and later she said she never had done to her like that...man her pussy was like a fresh peach...no smell at all and that was the last time I saw her. Dust in the wind my brother go for it all the time.

[BrewDog]

It could be any of a million things that's going through her head, and you'll never know. And try not to worry about it. It's very likely you did nothing wrong. Women are nuts, and if they flake, then just assume it's her. I've had girlfriends that were pissed off at me for days and then finally revealed the anger originated from her having a bad dream about me cheating on her. And this has happened to me with more than one girlfriend. Do you try to explain to her how illogical this is, or do you just eventually succumb to the fact that they're completely insane?

I understand that you're trying to learn whatever you did wrong to fix it in the future, but sometimes there is no valid reason. Just move along to the next one and hopefully she's not as flaky.

[straightarrow]

If you try to analyze these chicks you will go nuts for sure. Almost nothing they do makes sense. If they are hot are you would bang them somehow move the conversation in that direction. You can make or drop small probing comments but just let them ramble on. If they ask about you just tell them the good stuff and leave it at that...as im typing this I get a txt from a 24 year old college chick. Never met her but she went cold about a week ago. Cant wait to see what this ones got up her dress...oh sorry sleve.

[HankMoody]

Here is some actual advice...

If you're trying to have a "connection" with a woman, to truly enjoy her presence, to gain a deeper understanding of each other on a mental level, you're not going to get laid. She's going to "have such a good time" and then friend zone you.

If your goal is to try and get laid, act aloof and disinterested. Look at your watch. Sneak a peek at the hockey game. Reveal very little about yourself. Do not lean into the conversation, laugh at your own jokes, or try too hard to make her laugh. Treat her like she's one of many in a vast sea of poon.

Hypergamy, my friends. Women don't want to meet their best friend, they want to lure in a man who is better than them.

[BrewDog]

(12-29-2015 04:00 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Here is some actual advice...

If you're trying to have a "connection" with a woman, to truly enjoy her presence, to gain a deeper understanding of each other on a mental level, you're not going to get laid. She's going to "have such a good time" and then friend zone you.

If your goal is to try and get laid, act aloof and disinterested. Look at your watch. Sneak a peek at the hockey game. Reveal very little about yourself. Do not lean into the conversation, laugh at your own jokes, or try too hard to make her laugh. Treat her like she's one of many in a vast sea of poon.

Hypergamy, my friends. Women don't want to meet their best friend, they want to lure in a man who is better than them.

This is good advice. However, I think it's good advice for 95% of women. And those would be the flaky ones. If you're looking to score, then yes, do exactly what Hank recommends. He's spot on target.

But if you're looking for something besides a bang, a fun chick to have a relationship with perhaps, then the rules change. If a girl needs headgames to be interested in you - if you have to be aloof and assholish to attract her from the start, then she's the sort of girl that will always need that. She wants the aloof badboy, and she will still want that when she's married to you. And then she'll go elsewhere to bang some other aloof guy while you're at work.

If a girl is a straight shooter from the start and actually lets you know she likes you and enjoys your company without any drama... That's the keeper. She's the 5%.

It depends on what you want. If I just want to hookup, then I do what Hank says. If I actually like a girl, then I treat her as such. And then if she flakes because I was too nice, well, then I just learned that she wasn't worth my relationship.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(12-29-2015 04:31 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 04:00 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Here is some actual advice...

If you're trying to have a "connection" with a woman, to truly enjoy her presence, to gain a deeper understanding of each other on a mental level, you're not going to get laid. She's going to "have such a good time" and then friend zone you.

If your goal is to try and get laid, act aloof and disinterested. Look at your watch. Sneak a peek at the hockey game. Reveal very little about yourself. Do not lean into the conversation, laugh at your own jokes, or try too hard to make her laugh. Treat her like she's one of many in a vast sea of poon.

Hypergamy, my friends. Women don't want to meet their best friend, they want to lure in a man who is better than them.

This is good advice. However, I think it's good advice for 95% of women. And those would be the flaky ones. If you're looking to score, then yes, do exactly what Hank recommends. He's spot on target.

But if you're looking for something besides a bang, a fun chick to have a relationship with perhaps, then the rules change. If a girl needs headgames to be interested in you - if you have to be aloof and assholish to attract her from the start, then she's the sort of girl that will always need that. She wants the aloof badboy, and she will still want that when she's married to you. And then she'll go elsewhere to bang some other aloof guy while you're at work.

If a girl is a straight shooter from the start and actually lets you know she likes you and enjoys your company without any drama... That's the keeper. She's the 5%.

It depends on what you want. If I just want to hookup, then I do what Hank says. If I actually like a girl, then I treat her as such. And then if she flakes because I was too nice, well, then I just learned that she wasn't worth my relationship.

[OregonToSoCal]

(12-29-2015 04:31 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

If a girl needs headgames to be interested in you - if you have to be aloof and assholish to attract her from the start, then she's the sort of girl that will always need that.

I get the intent of what you're saying but I would change it to read that it's not playing head games to get her interested but rather to preserve her interest. I'm sure you've had situations where you went out with a chick who you thought was really cool and there could be some kind of future with but then she starts blowing up your phone, acting needy over text and essentially turning you off to where you have to next her. I know I've had those women and it works the same reversed.

(12-29-2015 04:31 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

If a girl is a straight shooter from the start and actually lets you know she likes you and enjoys your company without any drama... That's the keeper. She's the 5%.

Couldn't agree more

(12-29-2015 04:31 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

It depends on what you want. If I just want to hookup, then I do what Hank says. If I actually like a girl, then I treat her as such. And then if she flakes because I was too nice, well, then I just learned that she wasn't worth my relationship.

I don't think it needs to be an either/or proposition. Ideally we should be busy with our lives and putting a woman who we just met as our number 1 priority should be the last thing on our mind. If I'm interested in a woman I show that by being present, engaging with her and physically escalating when we're together. When we're apart I want her to be wondering about me, what I'm doing, who I'm with, and then when I contact her a few days later she's excited to hear from me and plan our next date.

[PapayaTapper]

(12-29-2015 04:31 PM)BrewDog Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 04:00 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Here is some actual advice...

If you're trying to have a "connection" with a woman, to truly enjoy her presence, to gain a deeper understanding of each other on a mental level, you're not going to get laid. She's going to "have such a good time" and then friend zone you.

If your goal is to try and get laid, act aloof and disinterested. Look at your watch. Sneak a peek at the hockey game. Reveal very little about yourself. Do not lean into the conversation, laugh at your own jokes, or try too hard to make her laugh. Treat her like she's one of many in a vast sea of poon.

Hypergamy, my friends. Women don't want to meet their best friend, they want to lure in a man who is better than them.

This is good advice. However, I think it's good advice for 95% of women. And those would be the flaky ones. If you're looking to score, then yes, do exactly what Hank recommends. He's spot on target.

But if you're looking for something besides a bang, a fun chick to have a relationship with perhaps, then the rules change. If a girl needs headgames to be interested in you - if you have to be aloof and assholish to attract her from the start, then she's the sort of girl that will always need that. She wants the aloof badboy, and she will still want that when she's married to you. And then she'll go elsewhere to bang some other aloof guy while you're at work.

If a girl is a straight shooter from the start and actually lets you know she likes you and enjoys your company without any drama... That's the keeper. She's the 5%.

It depends on what you want. If I just want to hookup, then I do what Hank says. If I actually like a girl, then I treat her as such. And then if she flakes because I was too nice, well, then I just learned that she wasn't worth my relationship.

Pardon me, but...no...not in the western world

Deciding a girl is a "keeper" from the onset is a surefired way to not keep her.

A better formula looks more like this:

Guy + girl like each other = bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again
bang & decide to do it again

Etc, etc.

Lo and behold an LTR evolved over time


Make no mistake: ALL women have a "lock" in their head that has to be opened in order for attraction / interest to be triggered. If you stumble on it by accident, youre lucky. Understanding "game" principles can increase your likelihood of getting the results you want with chicks, be it a quick bang or long term relationship.

[BrewDog]

(12-29-2015 05:02 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Deciding a girl is a "keeper" from the onset is a surefired way to not keep her.

Make no mistake: ALL women have a "lock" in their head that has to be opened in order for attraction / interest to be triggered. If you stumble on it by accident, youre lucky. Understanding "game" principles can increase your likelihood of getting the results you want with chicks, be it a quick bang or long term relationship.

There are 3.5 billion women in the world. Yes, most of them are screwy in the head and need the formula you present. And those are the women you want for a ONS.

I'm saying that you can't put human beings into one mold. That's stereotyping, and, while stereotyping may work many times, it's a bad way to live life - to think that because someone is a part of a certain group, they're going to always behave a certain way. That's also true with women. I don't know that the figure is actually 95%, I use that number because the level-headed, sane girl that doesn't need mindgames comes along seemingly once every 20 times. They're rare, but they're the ones worth keeping. The rest are fruitloops as evidenced by their need for game and mindtricks.

As the saying goes, my opinion is like a butthole - it may stink. Or something like that. Sometimes I forget exact quotes.

[XPQ22]

Guys here have said it better than I could, so I'll just add my agreement and my own anecdote. Online chicks are as flakey as they come. I met up with a late 20s girl over the summer who was one of the better looking chicks I went on a date with from OKC, but a single mom (doh! violated my own rule!)

Anyway, she must not have been getting any for a while - we had coffee on a bench in a secluded area of a park and within an hour we were slobbing and groping all over each other like teenagers. If I had had the logistics to close, I would have been banging her 30 minutes later.

But I acutally thought this date didn't have much promise going in, and we met up at an intermediate location. Bad call. The passion couldn't last, and the date ended up with us eating some pizza.

Now, 15 years ago I had a lot of relationships begin this way. Make out, grope a bit, and agree to meet up again.

But not today. She ghosted on me, and when I finally got irritated at her non-response (I know better than to bother with trying to figure out reasons now, as it's a waste of time that could be better spent working other contacts) texted her to ask her what was up she essentially blamed me for making her feel like a slut without getting to "know her better". Basically she hamsterized it after the fact and suddenly felt a lot of regret for whatever reason. And her phone had blown up with 6 new messages from likely better looking guys in the meantime.

From the way you describe it, it sounds like she had a pleasant time, and may have liked you in an abstract way; girls won't spend a moment smooching a guy they think is ugly or has no game whatsoever, but she didn't feel the passion or "THAT REAL CONNECTION" that chicks blather on about.

It doesn't always play out that way, but it's common. Thinking back on the dates that I've been on that were objectively "good" (girl wasn't obviosuly turned off by me) and ended with a bit of makeout/groping, instead of sex, I'd say my odds of getting a second were no better than 50/50. And pushing too hard with the physical stuff without progressing to sex, can be just as harmful to your chances as things being really cool. As someone mentioned a while back, if you want to keep the tension up enough for a second, you have to walk a fine line between "there's no 'connection'" and "ugh he made me feel like a slut."

So those are the risks you take when you run the mental calculus and decide that she likes you enough for you to take it slow. She may have different ideas.

[XPQ22]

One more thing to add: four hours for a first date with multiple venue changes when not much is going on is way too long. By about hour one if you have some experience you should get a feel for what the dynamic is - go for SNL, kiss close and hope for the best (some girls absolutely won't bang on the first date and that's all you're gonna get), or eject.

Her mind is likely pretty made up as to what's going to happen by that point, hell she probably figured it out ten minutes in, assuming in the first case you don't make any huge errors. Why shouldn't you?

[Neo]

(12-29-2015 04:00 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Here is some actual advice...

If you're trying to have a "connection" with a woman, to truly enjoy her presence, to gain a deeper understanding of each other on a mental level, you're not going to get laid. She's going to "have such a good time" and then friend zone you.

If your goal is to try and get laid, act aloof and disinterested. Look at your watch. Sneak a peek at the hockey game. Reveal very little about yourself. Do not lean into the conversation, laugh at your own jokes, or try too hard to make her laugh. Treat her like she's one of many in a vast sea of poon.

Hypergamy, my friends. Women don't want to meet their best friend, they want to lure in a man who is better than them.

^

Exactly. It's funny, once in a blue moon I try the opposite of what we preach here, just to mess around. It helps me confirm that what we say is true. Just tried it with an online girl, said I wanted a LTR took the slow approach. We exchanged tons of texts, talked, 'connected', went on two dates had a 'great time'. All the while I knew I was wasting my time and it was doomed to fail, but hey I like to get out of my comfort zone and maybe she is an exception?

Nope. No western girl I've ever met is the exception. Never, not once in my life.

Maybe if I could go back in time to being 22 and move my ass to the Midwest it was possible. Not today, if the girl is single, attractive, and older than 25 trying to form a 'connection' will fail.

So here's a better frame of mind to have.

Before each date imagine you're dying tomorrow. There's a gun to your head and the clock is ticking. Visualize the scenario completely, feel the fear, accept it. Now go and fuck that girl with all you've got.