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Writing tips
#1

Writing tips

I am aware that a few guys on the forum have written books. I am now on my final draft for my manuscript. I wanted to know

Did you self publish or wait for a publish house to accept your manuscript?
Did you take classes on writing before you started or you just fire away? Is it necessary to do so?
Do you have any useful tips or websites that do?
What you think makes a good story?
Is it possible for members to trade manuscripts and ideas tohelp each other out?

Thanks.

Don't debate me.
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#2

Writing tips

Fiction or non-fiction?

Completely different writing for each. I'm a non-fiction writer.
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#3

Writing tips

Fiction writing is what I am mainly curios about.

Don't debate me.
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#4

Writing tips

First off, use the search feature first before making a general thread like this. We have discussed writing tips on countless threads.

On point, there are two sort-of bibles for fiction writing:

Stephen King: On Writing

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Strunk & White: The Elements of Style

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Read those books inside and out. As many times as you can. As Stephen King says, if you want to write fiction -- at least fiction worth reading -- you need to read and write everyday. The more, the better. You can learn from both great writing and terrible writing.

Obligatory dump of books/authors you should read:

The Shining, Pet Sematary, The Dark Half, Carrie, Different Seasons and Misery. These are all by Stephen King. He is a master of all the elements of good fiction: pacing, character development, theme, etc. You should read all of his short story collections and his work under the name "Richard Bachman, " too. His Bachman books are twisted and Thinner in particular has some wicked good dialogue.

The Firm, The Client, The Pelican Brief and the Rainmaker. These are by John Grisham. He's a bestselling author but is by-and-large a terrible writer. His characters are super thin, his overuse of adverbs might drive you crazy but his stories are well-paced and he's very popular. You can burn through his work in short order.

Authors: Raymond Chandler, Edgar Allan Poe, Dean Koontz, Anne Rice, Michael Crichton, Charles Bukowski, Fyodor Dostoevsky, HP Lovecraft, etc, etc.

Edit for tone. This really is a well-worn topic. . .

Quote:Old Chinese Man Wrote:  
why you wonder how many man another man bang? why you care who bang who mr high school drama man
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#5

Writing tips

Also a very good resource if you're looking to go near the self-publishing route in fiction: Joe Konrath's blog. He, at least, has the runs on the board: something like 30-something novels, most of which are published via Amazon, and he was published by a big publishing house before he went indie. Thoroughly recommended.

Remissas, discite, vivet.
God save us from people who mean well. -storm
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#6

Writing tips

Did you take classes to learn the art of fiction writing?

Don't debate me.
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#7

Writing tips

I'm not sure I would read strunk & white for fiction. Your writing will dry up if you follow all those "rules" to the letter.

I will be checking my PMs weekly, so you can catch me there. I will not be posting.
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#8

Writing tips

All the resources listed are great, and 2Wycked's are pretty much required reading (everyone says Strunk & White's makes dry writing or is outdated or the grammar points are iffy, and that's all partially true, but the tone and attitude of the book work to improve 95% of any beginner's writing, and it cleans up some serious flaws that many people make when they first start out).

And this thread is a dupe.

But whatever, if you want specific tips for starting out in fiction, here's what I would suggest.

-Cut into the flash fiction market. It's hot right now and if you can master forming compact stories, especially under 500 words, you can gain a great sense of what you need and what you don't need in a story (i.e. what the moving pats really are).

-Submittable is a great site for keeping track of where your submissions have been sent to. Duotrope is a great tool is finding sites to match your specific market (flash fiction, horror, humor, etc.) and submit to them. There's a free (but clunkier) wesbite like Duotrope with the extremely homosexual name The Grinder as well.

-Classes on writing are not necessary. They are sometimes helpful, but you should always be writing. Before you go, while you're going, after you've went. Do not ever wait on sometime to start writing. It's never a waste of time. Start writing.

-Experiment with story development methods. Every story has a sperm cell--an abbreviated idea, concept, or even feeling that every writer works with before anything else. Forcing that sperm into the egg of paper, and incubating it into a full blown story, is the most important skill of fiction writing. Some writers are only good at developing a story, and have a shit style, poor grasp of English's grammatical framework, and work with boring, damaged (or flat unoriginal) sperm. But they can still make best-sellers (think any popular fiction book today) because they know how to develop a story. Some writers start expanding on their sperm idea by sketching out the logical conclusions of the idea and planning how the story will unfold before writing. Some writers take the idea and expand completely in their heads before ever putting pen to paper, then follow a kind of general direction for the story that has already been mentally prepared. And others just start writing with the idea and mind and develop it as they go, letting the story surprise them as much as any reader.

-Spend every day thinking of story ideas. Pay attention to news stories, conversations, random encounters, and noteworthy events. They can be exciting, they can be dull. You need to be attentive, you need to question everything (why did that person say something? what motivated him? why did the hummingbird fall to its death across your yard? who saw it? how does it make them feel? what time of day did it happen in? if God made it happen, why would he do that?). Being a writer is being God. You need to get in God's mind, observe God's world, and understand what the master plan could be. That kind of thinking will help you pay attention to the unlimited amount of story ideas all around you. An old man I know always said that writer's bloc is a bullshit excuse for a lazy or unskilled writer, and I believe him. When you can see twenty or more good story ideas (or sperms) every day, then you've mastered this skill.

-Write a lot every day. While I personally don't think you necessarily need a quota of words, you do need to write every day to get as could as you possibly can be. And you have to be improving. Not just writing to write. And that means reading good fiction for reference. All kinds of good fiction.

-Listen to people talking and write it down. If you can't write believable dialogue, either keep the dialogue sparse in your stories (like Stephen King notes H.P. Lovecraft does in On Writing), or learn how to write good dialogue. The latter is always preferable. It can be done.

-Improve your writing, always. Not just when you're writing, but when you're not writing. Think about how drama in your life plays out, what makes it intense. Think about how small and big things can fit into a greater plot. And try to unpack the devices used to make your favorite movies entertaining. In short, constantly think about how you would incorporate what you see into a story. While observing your world will help open your eyes (a point touched on above), knowing how to fit the pieces into the puzzle is just as important. Always, always be dwelling on and figuring out your craft.

-Good and great writers are not always born. They can be made. Assume you're a bad writer. Work your ass off to become great.

-The reason great writers are usually born as great writers, and the reason bad writers usually do not improve, is because they reject criticism. It is scary to let people read your work, and it hurts when people criticize it. You feel like you always know best. Of course you do. But you don't. Send your work out to paying markets, listen to the editorial remarks, find readers you'd be targeting, get their opinions, and even ask on the forum if some guys here would read your stuff. Steer clear of shitty aspiring writers. Always look for better writers than you.

-Master writing short fiction before novels. It's easier to understand story development that way.

-Do not jerk yourself off with too much flowery, poetic language. Some guys, like Faulkner, love to write with this artsy kind of approach, and it works. But so many people these days think that's all you need to make a good story, and when you peel back the pretty language, you realize you don't have a story. Use whatever style you want, but make sure you aren't using pretentious ass language as a crutch because you really have nothing in your story.

-Understand now that not all rich writers are great writers, and not all shit writers are poor writers. It's extremely likely, in fact pretty much guaranteed, that some terrible writers will always make more off their writing than you ever will. It's not because people love terrible writing per se. It's just the way it is.

-Listen to music when you write if you feel uninspired.

-Write in a place where you can concentrate. Follow Victor Pride's advice on setting up a workplace that helps you concentrate. When you're writing, you're working from home. It doesn't matter how much you've made or if you've made anything off your writing. When you are putting words together, your ass is at work.

-Don't spend a dime learning how to write from anyone that doesn't have a PhD in English or sold a shitload of books (the latter is vastly preferable).

-Understand writing as an art. That means don't be mechanical with it. Don't write just to call yourself or writer or just because you see guys on the forum talk about why every man should write. Write because you want to express yourself. Writing is expression. Without anything to express, your writing is shit. Reading that kind of work is like having sex without an orgasm. Put some expression and emotion into what you do.

-You'll know you wrote your story write when you're terrified to let another person read it. But that's when you have to let other people read it.

-Be willing to kill things that aren't necessary in a story, and have the balls to experiment with cutting things out that you really like but no one else does (or gets in your way of building the story as a whole).

Examples of amazing short stories to emulate:

"Big Two-Hearted River" by Hemingway

"Clean, Well-Lit Place" by Ernest Hemingway

"A Small, Good Thing" by Raymond Carver

Heart of Darkness by Conrad

"A Dead Body" by Chekhov

"Guests of the Nation" by Frank O'Connor

Quote:PapayaTapper Wrote:
you seem to have a penchant for sticking your dick in high drama retarded trash.
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#9

Writing tips

Sorry about the dupe. I googled Roosh forum Writing tips and came up with fuck all. Can you load links to the threads? Much thanks.

Don't debate me.
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#10

Writing tips

The only three golden rules of writing.

Write to be readable.
Write so you can speak to the mind's eye.
Write about something people will care about.
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#11

Writing tips

Quote: (12-17-2015 02:58 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

Did you self publish or wait for a publish house to accept your manuscript?
Did you take classes on writing before you started or you just fire away? Is it necessary to do so?
Do you have any useful tips or websites that do?
What you think makes a good story?
Is it possible for members to trade manuscripts and ideas to help each other out?

All of my books are self-published though I have a doorstopper novel near completion and I will be looking to agent it. If you go the self-publishing route, use Amazon's CreateSpace as it guarantees your book becomes available through Amazon and all its international affiliates. Just make VERY sure your book is perfect in format and grammar.

No classes besides high school and college English, but I read books about writing all the time. Most of it is nonsense because writing is subjective but the diamond I glean from the rough makes it worth it. I would encourage you to read Stephen King's On Writing which is about as subtle as a punch in the mouth, but it's the best book on writing I've ever read. Also go to a used book store and pick up Strunk and White's Elements of Style and a good reference book and a stylebook. I like the Associated Press' Stylebook, but there are many others. I also use The Gregg Reference Manual.

A good story has a plot, a character and a conflict, period.

Writing is a muscle. I collected rejection slips for 20 years before I made my first magazine sale and now I sell on a regular basis. So write, write, write, and write some more. Don't listen to the internal critic and don't stop writing. You will find your voice and style if you don't stop writing. Got it?

Sorry, but I cannot help you with manuscript critique. Writing and my counseling job suck up all my time and unfortunately, I must keep my real identity a secret as I work for a blue pill outfit and I'm addicted to food, a roof over my head, and clothes on my back.
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#12

Writing tips

My main business is writing. I'll offer you these two rules that I remind myself of every day:

1. Know your audience.
2. Less is more; if you can explain something in 10 words, don't use 20. Don't overwrite.

“….and we will win, and you will win, and we will keep on winning, and eventually you will say… we can’t take all of this winning, …please Mr. Trump …and I will say, NO, we will win, and we will keep on winning”.

- President Donald J. Trump
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#13

Writing tips

Quote: (12-17-2015 02:58 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

I am aware that a few guys on the forum have written books. I am now on my final draft for my manuscript. I wanted to know

Did you self publish or wait for a publish house to accept your manuscript?
Did you take classes on writing before you started or you just fire away? Is it necessary to do so?
Do you have any useful tips or websites that do?
What you think makes a good story?
Is it possible for members to trade manuscripts and ideas tohelp each other out?

Thanks.

1. Waited for a publishing house. I am not an editor. I've edited other people's work and while self-editing is okay (read: mandatory) to polish a manuscript, I do not have the required objectivity to edit my own. Nor am I a graphic designer. I suppose if you were extremely skilled in all three departments, which is somewhat of an oxymoron, and were willing to hustle with marketing, you might do okay. Matthew Reilly, an Australian adventure-thriller writer, self-published and his work was eventually picked up by Pan Macmillan after it became moderately successful.

2. Mainly just fired away but I was a member of a writer's group for a while. It was a waste of time for the most part, although there was one guy there that was on-the-ball and didn't pull any punches. I needed that. I bristled when he pointed out some flaws in my writing and tried to hamsterise it away, but I eventually realised there was truth in what he said and my writing improved because of it.

3. What do I think makes a good story? Great characters, realistic dialogue, consistent pacing (a story doesn't have to be action-packed to be good) and not too much description.

A few random thoughts....

Don't discount eBooks. I did for a long time. There is a reason why companies like Amazon and Apple and putting so much money into them.

A good agent can be invaluable, but don't think the journey is over if/when you get an agent. One of my manuscripts was picked up by an agent who has represented best-sellers. This particular agent still hadn't sold the manuscript after about three months and pretty much wasn't interested after that. That manuscript is still languishing on my computer. I still can't decide whether in gaming terms it was a 9 leading me on for three months or if I was just pumped and dumped.

Preditors and Editors and Ralan (specifically for speculative fiction) are two good market listing websites to get you started.
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