[MrPink]

After extensive searching and browsing of the forum I have not been able to find anything to do with this. Please refer me to the relevant thread if it exists.

I have noticed that younger chicks, age range 17-23, tend to hang about in a troop of three to four girls. There seems to be a definite structure to their troop and I have made the following observations:

• The "Ringleader". Usually she is the tallest chick and also the most assertive. She leads the troop and generally dominates conversations. Her fellow troop members automatically look wherever she does. If the troop is a bitch troop, she is the bitch with the biggest pout. If the troop is not a bitch troop the Ringleader is has a good sense of humor. The Ringleader is not the best looking of the troop. Banging the Ringleader first makes banging the rest easier.
• The "Flanks". These are the two better looking but more "docile" of the troop. They seem to serve as extra pairs of eyes or sets of tongues for the Ringleader. With bitch troops they usually issue dirty looks to an approaching guy, while the Ringleader tries to spit bitch-venom at him. In nicer troops the Flanks just giggle and make sounds like "ooh!", "eek!", and other such high pitched noises. Approaching any of the Flanks while she is in her troop gets the approacher referred to the Ringleader by means of a glance toward the Ringleader. Approaching a Flank while she is alone elicits a totally different personality to while she is in the troop.
• The "Trailer". Trailers do not always exist. Trailers position themselves a few steps behind the Ringleader when walking. When sitting at a table the Trailer will position herself at at the opposite end of the Ringleader. The Trailer is usually absorbed in her BlackBerry, or "deep" in thought. She will smile weakly when the Ringleader makes a joke. The Trailer has the least makeup on in the troop. Trailers are usually on par with or slightly higher than the Ringleader in terms of looks. Upon talking to the Trailer, curt monosyllabic answers are given to any questions posed. The Trailer cannot be classified as either friendly or bitchy. Trailers seem to be difficult to bang, and usually not worth the effort, since the Flanks generally look better.
  

Among older women the troop behavior seems to fade. The troop behavior seems to also be limited to 4 chicks. Although rare, at higher numbers, sub-troops form with similar structure to the main troop.

Does anybody agree/disagree with this? How do YOU go about approaching these women, especially when solo?

[Blackhawk]

(06-26-2011 07:24 AM)MrPink Wrote:  

[*]The "Ringleader". Usually she is the tallest chick and also the most assertive.

Tall girls (above 5'8") tend to be quiet and hyper-aware of everyone looking at them all the time. Because all their life they've stuck out like a tree in every class at school. To me it sounds more like you're more describing a pack of short girls (5'4" and under). Their height at this size is from their shoes and hair more than anything else. They're all low betas. Even the leader is a beta, not an alpha.

Women do not have have a stigma against "sloppy seconds". After they've group discussed you as acceptable for girlfriend X it's easy to be found acceptable for girlfriend Y and Z in the group as well. It's mostly a matter of internal politics which you have no control over, with X agreeing it's over with you and recommending you to the next girl in the group.

The group element takes a lot of time investment on their part to maintain, because every message has to be relayed to everyone else in the group multiple times before a group consensus is slowly reached. However, since they're all betas and rather stupid, the group decisions tend to be slightly smarter for at least some members of the group than they would make on their own by themselves.

Rachel: I need to poo.
Deb: I do too!
Fran: I don't know. Last time I pooed I got butthurt.
Staney: Is your bathroom clean? Want to use mine instead?
.
.
(hours pass)
.
.
Rachel: I pooed!
Deb: I did too!
Staney: I knew you could do it!
Fran: XOXOXO I love you all so much!

Keep in mind it's having a majority in the group consensus that counts. You might treat girl X like crap in person, but as long as you treat the other 3 nicely when you meet them and they only see you treating her nicely when you're all together, the group mind will still keep deciding in your favor. She will ignore her personal feelings and do what the group tells her. If you're burning through the group members one by one be aware that eventually you'll lose your majority.

Eventually someone moves, gets a serious job, a serious boyfriend, or some other life change, and the group-mind of trying to keep track of every time any of 4 people wipes their ass every day and other trivia disintegrates.

The plus side is you'll become the instant alpha with any girl from these kinds of groups. The downside is you'll spend the rest of your life with a nincompoop of woman unable to even poo on her own without consulting you first.

[Vitriol]

(06-26-2011 10:52 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

Women do not have have a stigma against "sloppy seconds". After they've group discussed you as acceptable for girlfriend X it's easy to be found acceptable for girlfriend Y and Z in the group as well. It's mostly a matter of internal politics which you have no control over, with X agreeing it's over with you and recommending you to the next girl in the group.

This is why I'm hellbent on showing that social circle game is a nullity.



Overall this thread is a good attempt to deconstruct the dynamics of female group behavior... just like all other female behavior this is uniform enough to be analyzed and blueprinted.

[Jersey]

(06-26-2011 11:08 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

This is why I'm hellbent on showing that social circle game is a nullity.

Could you explain this more? I've been running in a social circle (my first real attempt) of all girls for a few months now (we only hang out about 1x/month recently), and I finally hit the tipping point this weekend. Now I'm sleeping with one who wants a threesome (with a girl outside of the group) and have a date with a second this week where I am 90% sure I'll close her.

When I hang out with the group, they can't keep their hands off of me. It's just a matter of me picking which ones I want now.

Obviously, that's only anecdotal, but why would you dismiss the entire concept?

[Vitriol]

(06-28-2011 12:07 AM)Jersey Wrote:  

(06-26-2011 11:08 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

This is why I'm hellbent on showing that social circle game is a nullity.

Could you explain this more? I've been running in a social circle (my first real attempt) of all girls for a few months now (we only hang out about 1x/month recently), and I finally hit the tipping point this weekend. Now I'm sleeping with one who wants a threesome (with a girl outside of the group) and have a date with a second this week where I am 90% sure I'll close her.

When I hang out with the group, they can't keep their hands off of me. It's just a matter of me picking which ones I want now.

Obviously, that's only anecdotal, but why would you dismiss the entire concept?

It sounds like your experience has been exceptionally good. But you mentioned you're the only male in this circle, so that's probably why. There's no male competition.

The part I bolded from the other post about the girls doing a lot of communicating with each other that is totally outside of your control is key. Unless they decide collectively that you're among the one or two highest status males within a social circle that is worthy of fucking, you're pretty much out of luck. Plenty of dudes are a part of a social circle where they're not getting anything from any of the girls.

So it basically seems to me that social circle game is:
1. Being present in the social circle
2. Leaving the rest up to luck

I think cold approaching is probably a much better strategy.

[Jersey]

(06-28-2011 12:20 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  

It sounds like your experience has been exceptionally good. But you mentioned you're the only male in this circle, so that's probably why. There's no male competition.

The part I bolded from the other post about the girls doing a lot of communicating with each other that is totally outside of your control is key. Unless they decide collectively that you're among the one or two highest status males within a social circle that is worthy of fucking, you're pretty much out of luck. Plenty of dudes are a part of a social circle where they're not getting anything from any of the girls.

So it basically seems to me that social circle game is:
1. Being present in the social circle
2. Leaving the rest up to luck

I think cold approaching is probably a much better strategy.

I see your point, and you are right about needing to be the high value male in the circle. Otherwise you are somewhat wasting your time.

My only difference would be that I don't think #2 is all luck. When you cold approach, you need to establish your value equal to or above the girls you are approaching, or else the set peters out. That's kind of the whole point of game - to quickly establish high value (even if you don't have it yet). Having high value = Skill x Luck (where luck is things out of your control.)

In social circle, you have to do the exact same thing. Establish high value. It's just that in social circle, the value you establish is sticky instead of fleeting. With the added bonus of you having preselection with the girls you meet later. I stumbled into my social circle by cold approaching the highest value girl in the group at a bar (when she was alone), and then she started inviting me out with her friends. When her friends saw that I was preselected by their queen, I was in with every one of them. It just took time and logistics to start converting them.

So, I think the problem is not that we are relying on luck, it's that the value you establish early lasts a long time. And if you don't establish high value, its like you're getting stuck in a bad set for months. Whereas, at a bar if you messed up a set, you'd just bail after 20 minutes at the longest.

Did I luck out that the queen really liked me? Yes. But she liked me because of my skill and game.

I think the better answer is to not waste your time on social circles where you don't think you can become high value quickly, rather than abandon the concept altogether.

[Jersey]

(06-26-2011 07:24 AM)MrPink Wrote:  

Does anybody agree/disagree with this? How do YOU go about approaching these women, especially when solo?

Personally, I often find that the ringleader is the first one to show interest as well, so usually I do something observational and funny that I kind of broadcast to the whole group, but I make eye contact with the leader. I'll go back and forth with her for 2-3 salvos, then make a side point and turn to one of the other "flanks" for their opinion. I'll often also make comedic asides to others in the group based on their responses. (Divide and conquer, but in a playful way.)

Now, this works for me because I'm verbal and very quick-witted, but I'm not sure what your strengths are.

For awhile there, I was getting stuck at this phase. I would say something silly to start and entertain the group for 10 minutes, and then nothing would happen. Roosh pointed out that my problem was I wasn't isolating, and he was right.

It's usually tough to pull one girl out of a tight group after only a short time, but with effective body positioning and a good back-turn, you can turn the 4-set into a 1-set, just like you would block out your defender while rebounding in basketball. If you do it right, they won't even realize what you are doing, because it won't seem weird at all. And if you did a good job establishing yourself in the open and first few minutes, the other girls will be less likely to cockblock.