[Ringo]

(11-18-2015 10:55 PM)Hendrixian Wrote:  

That frame control at 4:10.

[High Hanging Fruit]

10/10 answer from WIA.

I've got an extension question on beta passive aggressiveness.

We can probably all agree that when you're in a relationship, you can't be too nice. You have to give the girl 2/3 of what she gives you, don't buy her lavish gifts, talk down to her on occasion etc. (all the fundamentals of game). However, some orbiter Nice Guys see this as a weakness, or offensive because you are a jerk getting girls that they never could.

They try to play this to their advantage by saying snide remarks in your presence, or to her when you’re not there. Examples:
“You’re very lucky to have her, you should treat her like a princess.”
“I can’t believe he told you to go to the gym. I’d never do that!”
“I can’t believe you said that to her! She’s a lady!”
“You’ve never bought her flowers!? I bought my last girlfriend flowers every single week!”

The problem is that these can actually be pretty effective when not handled correctly. This is because women want these things. However, we can’t give it to them because if we do, they lose attraction to us.

So what is your typical response when you either hear Nice Guys say these things, or hear that they have said them?

I usually deflect it at them time, just by ignoring the Nice Guy, or saying something uninterested to shut him down like “sure”. If my girl bitches about not being treated like a princess later, I’ll usually say something along the lines of “if you want somebody to kiss your ass all day long, there’s the door.”

Any ideas on handling this better?

[The_Don_Führer]

(11-18-2015 03:42 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(11-18-2015 03:33 PM)BassPlayaYo Wrote:  

There's no way that a person is going to say inaccurate things about me in my presence without me correcting them. This can always be done without getting angry or being aggressive but it does need to be dealt with as soon as it happens. It doesn't matter how innocent the mistake is or what the motivation is, you want to control your narrative not let someone else do it.

Tyson was convicted of rape. The problem wasn't that the guy said something which was false or inaccurate. The problem is that it was a really low blow bringing up something like that during an interview which was completely unrelated, especially when the incident, even if it was true, happened decades ago when Tyson was in his twenties or whatever.

Fixed that for you

[Mess O.]

Watching that Tyson clip once more, it struck me that this is what Roosh shoulda pulled on Dr. Oz.

[AneroidOcean]

No way that works on dr oz. No way. Tyson knew that interview was live and that telling the interview to fuck off in a calm manner would ruin the interview, get the station fined/bad press, and set the interviewer up to have nothing to say.

Tyson knew there was no audience that sides with the interviewer there on site. Besides, despite being a piece of shit, dr oz is smarter and had vastly more frame than that interviewer.

[Hairz]

^^tbh i think Roosh knew what he was walking into but didn't prep himself for the audience aspect.

[RedPillUK]

Dr Oz isn't live so they would have just cut that out and it wouldn't work.

[olive]

We all know type of people Who Had Way Too Much Time on Their Hands - I mean the type does things like this one:


Well, today, that's me so I took it upon me - the holy task of painstakingly breaking down every frame of the video and share my absolutely scientific findings along with picture extracts from the clip.

FACTS
Total video length is 2m 35s.
0m0s - 01m06s: opening and small talk
01m07s: He's got a gun alert! -- to be clear the sexy Word 'rapist' is pronounced only ONCE by the interviewer, precisely at 1m 07s.
01m07s-01m20s: Mike calculating odds, working on a counter-attack
01m20: Mike pulling his gun
01m20s onwards: forced sissification process of the interviewer

HIGHLIGHTS
0120 "You're being negative"
0140 "You're really a pice of shit"
0141 Piece-of-shit body language communicates: can we all forget about it now, pretty pleaaasee

0143 "Fuck you - that's a pice of shit"
0149 Piece-of-shit body language communicates: you da man. I submit. you win. please stop it. daddy!

0223 "It's more nerve wrecking to talking to a pice of shit like you (compared to boxing)"
0223 Mike's promotor thinks lol Mike! +rep'd!

0223 Mike's promotor -- *BONUS* (see below)
0234 Piece-of-shit body language communicates: far far away, I want to be.


BONUS HIGHLIGHT
It is a known fact that excitement (as well as stress) can increase human saliva production (a.k.a.: hypersalivation) -> http://www.healthhype.com/excessive-sali...ation.html

Mike's promotor having witnessed (1) interviewer's unprovoked attack on Mike's, (2) rapidly followed by Mike's forced sissification of him on live TV on his own show.
Promotor was a silent close hand witness of the counter attack, after about a minute of drop-jaw smiling he is overcome by his bodies physiological response of hypersalivation.
Scientific result conclude he's undoubtedly a good promoter with healthy and manly salivary glands.


TL;DR
Mike isn't a big fun of word 'rapist'. Try and avoid on live tv when interviewing him.

[Mess O.]

Well, in both cases - Tyson & Roosh - the resulting publicity boosts their renown.

[duedue]

I found this thread while searching passive aggressiveness. The latter may be my worst personality trait, as you may have realized from some of my threads. The thing is that I act "cool" in response to somebody else's offhand behavior but then later start to sulk about it.

Case in point: went to a thai massage parlor (here in the US). When leaving the masseur confronted me and wanted tip. I gave her 10% but she wanted more, even trying to stick her hand into my wallet, which I didn't allow. Later I told myself I shouldn't have given her anything, because she demanded, didn't request.

Another one: went to a restaurant and sat at a booth. There were a couple sitting at the next booth (ugly woman BTW). I pulled the table towards me and it made a squeaky sound. The guy sitting at the other booth said loudly "Moving stuff around honey?" I thought I play Stoic and not answer but it didn't take me long to get angry. I thought I should've said

Moving stuff around honey?
Around yo' mama!

and there was not much he could do.

I've thought a lot about why I can't deal with such situations correctly, especially given that each time I repeat the same mistake.

1-First, like WIA mentioned its better to be so that others are dissuaded from jabbing at you in the first place. I'm just 5'7" and 150lb. I lift but it helps only so much. I noticed when I have a solemn determined face (without being smoldering) people, specially women, behave more politely. I think practicing a martial art is better for this reason than lifting; NOT for being prepared to grapple with others (which would be stupid) but because it would set my mind to be more challenging and resolute.

2-Then there is the frame issue. For example I've noticed when having a (civil, calm) argument with someone I am persuaded too easily and then later wonder why I didn't hold my ground. Like with the Thai masseur I thought to myself "Oh I didn't know the etiquette". I once read on Victor Pride's website something like "Other people are entitled to their opinion but I'm always correct."

3-It's also best to be on the offensive. Like WIA said " Guys that don't learn how to neg properly or home in on insecurities and vulnerabilities can't ever be alpha or dark triad." In a situation like that guy in the restaurant, an argument that goes on in the back of my mind and makes me angry is "Why I never do this?"

I think in the end this whole thing boils down to your view of the world and how you see yourself in it. One of my affirmations reads "Other people are my clowns". This may sound weird or immoral at first but think about it: it means that first, the whole thing is like a show and shouldn't be taken too seriously and get under my skin and second, other people are there to entertain me. Whether it's an AMOG or an angry fat woman doing a menial service job, they are just trying to be cute. (Unless someone wants to get physical.) My job is to cheer them on the act that they are putting on instead of taking them serious, otherwise I'd be their clown. But I've not internalized this yet!

[debeguiled]

I was reading something by Owen Cook that went along the lines of, if someone criticizes you for something that you know isn't true, you just blow it off or laugh at it because it is ridiculous.

If someone criticizes you for something you are insecure about or think might be true, you respond badly.

Like the guy with the table. So you moved a table, so what? The guy who responded tied it in to a challenge to your masculinity by calling you honey.

That was what you responded to. If he had said, no one moves tables in my presence, you would have laughed at him.

So in a strange way, this guy is doing you a favor. He is giving you a gift by showing you what issues push your buttons.

I know that gifts like this don't feel like gifts at the time, but the fact that you are still thinking about them later should tell you that it was about more than just moving a table.

Don't be so quick to label yourself a passive aggressive. Take the time to review the situation and ask yourself how you will handle something similar in the future.

If you honor your actual feelings, then you take them seriously, and if you take them seriously they can actually serve you instead of hindering you.

You not only learn how to deal with annoying social situations like this that come up from time to time, but you will also learn what YOUR standards are. If you didn't like the feeling of being talked down to like that, then you know that respect is important to you, and now you know that expecting and demanding respect is what you should be doing from now on.

The reason you keep making the same mistake over and over, and I know this all too well from personal experience, is that you are treating strangers like they deserve the same respect as people you know and love. You are extending them way too much power over your own feelings and personal equilibrium.

Being able to articulate your own standards to yourself allows you to detach from the opinions of other people and look at them from your own point of view instead of looking at yourself from their point of view.

Little by little you will take other people's expectations and emotions on board less and less until you can deal with situations like this with equanimity instead of raw emotion.

This is no different from the basic assertiveness training that therapists teach their patients every day.

You don't have to define other people as clowns to get them to respect you. Just hold them to basic standards of human decency, or deny them your attention.

[Jaygg]

Laugh it off but if it’s really serious or if you’re in a public setting, you can say something like “why are you being like this man? Why are you being so mean to people?” in a strong frame. It’s gold.

[duedue]

Quote:

The reason you keep making the same mistake over and over, and I know this all too well from personal experience, is that you are treating strangers like they deserve the same respect as people you know and love. You are extending them way too much power over your own feelings and personal equilibrium.

Great observation bro. I actually don't have many loved ones left (none nearby) and that may be why. One thing that is somewhat related to this is finding the balance between extroversion and aloofness.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

If they're a beta pussy just slap them in the back of the head and tell them to never talk about you again. If they're so soft as to take passive aggressive jabs at you then they for sure won't even try to step up to you after you do that.

The plus is you make them look like the little bitch they are while asserting your dominance.

Guarantee they won't say shit about you again. Or you can wait till your by yourselves and tell them if they ever talk shit about you again you'll kill him.

[Hypno]

You have to do more than ignore or correct, or else it will have an effect.

What you do is label what is being done to you. Identify it, call attention to it. This diminishes it. Then correct it.

Oh I see what you are doing. You are doing the lets see if I can embarrass Hypno by claiming he was fired. You're mister he-was-fired. What is it about you that you have a need to spread information that you know nothing about?

Actually that company is not doing well and they had large reduction in force.

[Sender]

Relevant to this, I was recently making out with a girl on a sofa in a nightclub. This huge bald polish guy comes up and grabs my head and rubs it. He calls me "Baldy" in a pseudo-affectionate manner (I'm bald/shave headed fyi). He was drunk AF.

I behaved pretty conciously to all this. Kept it friendly but didn't smile too much. Maintained eye contact. Then got rid of him by forcing him to fist bump. I just put out my fist until he reciprocated. This was deliberately intended as a way of saying 'bye!'. He staggered away.

Not sure what else I could have done short of growing an instant 50lbs or more of muscle to deter this behaviour in the first place. Or escalated to getting a potential kicking -- there's no way I would have taken the guy -- and being thrown out of the club.

I think I came out with a neutral balance of frame -- didn't lose, did gain either. Took the girl to my airBnb.

Don't know how I'd have handled it if the guy had been less drunk...