[Dr. Howard]

http://www.accountingtoday.com/news/tax-...397-1.html

There are a number of tax provisions hidden in the USA's congressional highway funding bill.

1. Allows the IRS to employ private debt collectors to collect tax debts. This is crazy as the IRS already has heavy hammers for collection and they will be given to private companies.

2. If an individual owes more than $50,000 in taxes that are in collection, the US gov't can revoke your passport. This, combined with the relatively new FATCA regulation gives the US government alot of power to chase citizens abroad, and lock people in. Consider that FATCA pentalties are $10,000 per undisclosed foreign bank account, per year $50,000 in penalties is pretty darn easy to accrue.

Just a heads up for players abroad.

[mammal]

(11-13-2015 10:38 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

If an individual owes more than $50,000 in taxes ...

Consider that FATCA pentalties are $10,000 per undisclosed foreign bank account, per year $50,000 in penalties is pretty darn easy to accrue.

FBAR penalties are up to 50% of the highest balance for the past six years (i.e. 300% of highest balance.) FATCA is the agreement that gets foreign banks to report information of US persons to the US government.

[Easy_C]

(11-14-2015 01:39 PM)mammal Wrote:  

(11-13-2015 10:38 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

If an individual owes more than $50,000 in taxes ...

Consider that FATCA pentalties are $10,000 per undisclosed foreign bank account, per year $50,000 in penalties is pretty darn easy to accrue.

FBAR penalties are up to 50% of the highest balance for the past six years (i.e. 300% of highest balance.) FATCA is the agreement that gets foreign banks to report information of US persons to the US government.

Incorrect description of FATCA. It's a law that declares that the US government will seize the assets of any foreign banks that fail to report on the financial activities of US citizens.

If you're abroad I recommend cutting your losses and renouncing US citizenship.

[travolta]

Somewhat related- SovereignMan.com is a good resource for LEGAL offshoring and moving your wealth into safer places than the US (not laundering or anything illegal). Guys on here with some extra money should start preparing for the future if they haven't already.

[Cobra]

Seems like a decent idea to me. If someone doesn't pay their share, someone else (aka you and me) is paying it. At the end of the day, it's people using resources without paying for them. I'm perfectly okay with deportation or passport revocation.

[Repo]

Yeah, agree. If you don't want to pay taxes in the US, move somewhere else and become a citizen there and pay taxes there.

[GlobalMan]

(11-15-2015 01:00 PM)travolta Wrote:  

Somewhat related- SovereignMan.com is a good resource for LEGAL offshoring and moving your wealth into safer places than the US (not laundering or anything illegal). Guys on here with some extra money should start preparing for the future if they haven't already.

The problem is there are now virtually no foreign banks that will accept non-resident U.S. citizens as customers, the burden of regulation on foreign banks to have us as customers is just too high and opens the bank up to too much risk. The exception is if you are substantially wealthy, then you have a few more option, but it is still very limited.

[Fast Eddie]

(11-15-2015 01:54 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

Seems like a decent idea to me. If someone doesn't pay their share, someone else (aka you and me) is paying it. At the end of the day, it's people using resources without paying for them. I'm perfectly okay with deportation or passport revocation.

Well dude..the discussion is about people living overseas. So no, they are not using those services and thus should not be forced to pay taxes to support those services they are not using. This logic is so obvious that the United States is virtually alone in the entire world in taxing citizens who live overseas.

[Designate]

(11-19-2015 12:50 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(11-15-2015 01:54 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

Seems like a decent idea to me. If someone doesn't pay their share, someone else (aka you and me) is paying it. At the end of the day, it's people using resources without paying for them. I'm perfectly okay with deportation or passport revocation.

Well dude..the discussion is about people living overseas. So no, they are not using those services and thus should not be forced to pay taxes to support those services they are not using. This logic is so obvious that the United States is virtually alone in the entire world in taxing citizens who live overseas.

Not to de-rail this thread John Galt style, but this is pretty fucking despicable when you give it a serious thought.

The fundamental framework the IRS operates from is that at the most basic level the only reason "American Persons" have had $ or success in this world is simply by virtue of being born within the American borders or otherwise graced with American citizenship.

You have to pay your fair share, everywhere. Regardless of how much you use public goods.

Meanwhile, 45% Of Americans will pay no federal income taxes in 2015.

[travolta]

(11-15-2015 04:25 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(11-15-2015 01:00 PM)travolta Wrote:  

Somewhat related- SovereignMan.com is a good resource for LEGAL offshoring and moving your wealth into safer places than the US (not laundering or anything illegal). Guys on here with some extra money should start preparing for the future if they haven't already.

The problem is there are now virtually no foreign banks that will accept non-resident U.S. citizens as customers, the burden of regulation on foreign banks to have us as customers is just too high and opens the bank up to too much risk. The exception is if you are substantially wealthy, then you have a few more option, but it is still very limited.

Really? I don't know about personal bank accounts but you can open a business bank account in HK fairly easily (requires you to set up a corporation of course). Years back I used this company to help me set up an account in HK http://www.asiabs.com/. I'm sure you can find cheaper if you look around. I'm in the process of closing out my HK company though.. way too much paperwork to do so it's not worth it to me at this point.

[Merenguero]

What if, any, notice are they required to give someone before revoking the passport? Will people simple find out when they check in for international flights? I can see a lot of lines for international flights being seriously slow and held up.

[Duke Castile]

Cobra,

So the government can charge up a bunch of debt on shit you never approved of, never wanted any part of, and then its ok for the gov't to come take your money you worked for at the point of a gun?

How is that paying the "fair share"?

[Beyond Borders]

“The government is good at one thing. It knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say, 'See if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk.”

― Harry Browne

[not_dead_yet]

(11-24-2015 12:13 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

Cobra,

So the government can charge up a bunch of debt on shit you never approved of, never wanted any part of, and then its ok for the gov't to come take your money you worked for at the point of a gun?

How is that paying the "fair share"?

Do you stiff the bartender that gave you a drink because you don't like the fact that the cost of the drink pays for the wages of the purple-haired feminist waitress?

Here's a foolproof plan to not worry about your passport -- pay your effing taxes.

[CactusCat589]

I wonder how far this will go. What if you're already in the country you want to be in before your passport gets revoked? Will there be military personnel who will hunt you down and drag you back to the United States?

[Mr. Brightside]

(12-03-2015 10:02 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  

Here's a foolproof plan to not worry about your passport -- pay your effing taxes.

The people we're talking about are Americans who live abroad who are already paying taxes in their country of residence. You want people to pay twice the amount of taxes?

[fortysix]

(12-03-2015 08:50 PM)Mr. Brightside Wrote:  

(12-03-2015 10:02 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  

Here's a foolproof plan to not worry about your passport -- pay your effing taxes.

The people we're talking about are Americans who live abroad who are already paying taxes in their country of residence. You want people to pay twice the amount of taxes?

Why should you be entitled to the protection of the US government if you aren't paying taxes to upkeep it? (Of course, how the taxes are spent by the government often does not align with our values, but that is a different story). You do not pay taxes on the first $100k that you make living abroad. If you make more than 100k in income, then you either i) pay taxes on it ii) implement wealth planning techniques to make sure that the income is not classified as "income" for IRS purposes, or iii) give up your passport.

I understand the argument that "they are not using those services and thus should not be forced to pay taxes to support those services they are not using" but you are still a member of the private US club in that you have access to the US Embassies, free travel to the US, and access to use various tax treaties and agreements with other countries. If you are not using those services, that is up to you -- its like paying for a gym membership, but not going to the gym. You can go ahead and cancel your membership by getting rid of your citizenship (although keeping it mind, that it will be extremely difficult to get that citizenship back if you change your mind in the future).

In regard to the link about 45% of Americans not paying taxes, I think it refers to 45% of Americans not filing their tax returns? (so they are still paying the taxes).

Finally, in regard to "moving your wealth abroad" -- my question for you is -- why? In the case that you made any money in the US, you most likely already paid taxes on it --- the US offers a number of options for growing that wealth on a tax-deferred basis (401ks & IRAs). Further, our stock market returns over the long-term are unmatched. Sure, you may be able to get good interest rates in foreign bank accounts, but what happens when you can't take that money out? I think in Ukraine, banks are offering up to 10-20% interest in savings accounts, currently. However, how confident can one be that they can take that money out ASAP? I believe that over the past year since the crisis, banks have stopped allowing withdrawals on accounts until further notice.

[fortysix]

double post

[fortysix]

(11-15-2015 11:52 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(11-14-2015 01:39 PM)mammal Wrote:  

(11-13-2015 10:38 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

If an individual owes more than $50,000 in taxes ...

Consider that FATCA pentalties are $10,000 per undisclosed foreign bank account, per year $50,000 in penalties is pretty darn easy to accrue.

FBAR penalties are up to 50% of the highest balance for the past six years (i.e. 300% of highest balance.) FATCA is the agreement that gets foreign banks to report information of US persons to the US government.

Incorrect description of FATCA. It's a law that declares that the US government will seize the assets of any foreign banks that fail to report on the financial activities of US citizens.

If you're abroad I recommend cutting your losses and renouncing US citizenship.

No - You are fear-mongering! FATCA requires that non-US financial institutions with US tax payer accounts to report those accounts, and ii) imposes some fines on tax-payers who do not personally report such accounts to the IRS (which are only imposed in the slight chance that you get audited, although they are draconian, indeed).

If a non-US financial institution does not comply with reporting, then the US imposes a 30% withholding tax to US-sourced payments from that financial institution (which is basically the corporate income tax, anyway).