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Plato's Mysticism and The Perrenial Tradition
#1

Plato's Mysticism and The Perrenial Tradition

This is a subject I am currently researching, and I have found my initial investigations to be fascinating. I wanted to create a thread where I could summarise, share various links to articles I've found fascinating, and explore the subject with any who are interested.

I found this article (in two parts, the second linked at the bottom of the first) completely fascinating, as it's fundamental premise is that Plato has been largely misinterpreted by almost every 'philosopher' since Aristotle: http://www.hermes-press.com/plato_index.htm


This first post is by way of introduction, and I hope that as I research further, and get deeper into the subject, the thread will evolve. I should add the disclaimer that I am not a tenured academic, or currently any kind of Platonic Scholar, although I hope that latter part may change. I am at the beginning of my research into this subject.

To start, it would make sense to define terms, and provide some background on the subject, and the kind of mindset that is necessary to tackle the material effectively:

The Perennial Tradition is the idea that there is a single stream of initiatory teaching that runs through all the original and authentic expressions of the great schools of Philosophy and mysticism. The idea being that there is a fundamental truth, unbounded by the mortal realm, that is realisable by man during his time on earth. There are many different names for this state - 'Enlightenment', 'Dharma' and the Tao being just a few. The essence of the Perennial Tradition is that within all of us is a 'soul' or a life force, with forms part of an ethereal whole. By removing the distractions of the conscious intellect, and turning our attentions inwards, it is possible to see through the eyes of the soul, without the tint of the applied intellect - this is my understanding of the principle.

I should say at this point that I understand many will be skeptical, and understandably so. However, I believe any serious attempt to study the esoteric requires an open-minded approach. As the Illuminist philospher Shihab al-Din al-Suhrawardi said: 'One who seeks God through logical proof is like someone searching for the sun with a torch'.

Plato himself might argue that our current state of skepticism is the result of the delusions that are placed upon us by our upbringing, and the external and cultural influences that decide for us, in many respects, how we will think, and what assumptions form the lense through which we see the world. Plato might argue that unless you are prepared to countenance that you in fact 'know' nothing, that all that you know is a distortion of truth through the lense of the unenlightened given to you by a lifetime of conditioning and 'education', you cannot begin to search for any kind of a priori truth in yourself.

I am willing to countenance the possibility that there exists some kind of animating spirit which is a division of a greater whole. Whether you call this God, the Universe, or something else, does not really matter as far as I am able to discern. The Perennial Tradition makes the case that an aspect of us exists independently of the mind and body as part of a greater, eternal whole.

For Plato, realisation of this state was achieved by 'Philosophia', literally 'Love of Wisdom'. This involves a fundamental transformation of the inner-self, through the practice of dying (meditation on death is something Buddhism also encourages). This does not literally mean going out and having near death experiences. Rather, it means attempting to live in and through the soul - the eternal part of us - and achieve a knowable seperation between the body with it's conscious intellect, and the soul's ability to intuit truth (it forming part of the larger, eternal animus). For Plato then, philosophy could be defined as 'the Soul's discovery of itself'.

The article I linked above explores all of this in far more depth, and more eloquently than I. One of the most interesting points that it makes, although not in so many words, is that Aristotle essentially started the modern, nihilistic, cult-of-the-self way of thinking, and of skepticism of all things which could not be explained by application of logical intellect. If Plato's assertion that our conscious, intellectual selves are the product of the delusions put upon us by our education and upbringing, then what we think of as progress - indeed much of what modern civilization represents with its technical advancement and obsession with indulging the corporeal at the expense of the soul, and indeed much (though not all) of what we regard as our genius, is actually the result of thousands of years of erroneous thinking (a blink of the temporal eye in reality), and has only served to remove us from real truth and meaning.

A question of my own, which seems illustrative to ponder on the matter of how we think, is to ask: 'were it true, that enlightenment were a realisable, knowable state, would it matter to you that you could not explain it intellectually the absolute truth you were able to intuit?'. Since we are guilty, as a species in current times, of subjecting all experiences, thoughts and phenomina to the application of science and deliberate intellect, we are surely also forced, paradoxically, to accept that if phenomina exist for which there is no intellectual explanation, we are unable to experience them or know them through our own worship of only that which the intellect can comprehend? It is an equally logical, indeed unavoidable, step from accepting that position to suggest that if such esoteric/mystical/non-logical states and experiences are possible, then far from advancing us, our insistence on intellect and progress achieved through the application of such is what actually holds us back from our true potential?
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#2

Plato's Mysticism and The Perrenial Tradition

I think the key to understanding Plato is to understand that before Aristotle, there was no clear distinction between religion and philosophy. It's clear from reading the works of Plato that he was to some extent trying to start a religious movement.

Aristotle was the first to decided that religion and philosophy are two completely separate things, and this distinction has held since in western thought.

Whereas in eastern thought, the lines between religion and philosophy remained blurred and studying the one was often seen as end to achieve the other.

Platonism never had widespread appeal and its mystical aspects ended up being absorbed into Christian thought.

Plato was my introduction into philosophy in general and while I'm grateful to him for teaching me that life should not be lived passively but analytically, I seemed to have outgrown his rather arrogant style of thinking and I just have not been able to get back into his dialogues, despite making an effort during the past year.

That said, the Apology of Socrates is one of the most incredible things ever written, but it's also the least Platonic of all Plato's writings.
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#3

Plato's Mysticism and The Perrenial Tradition

Quote:Quote:

A question of my own, which seems illustrative to ponder on the matter of how we think, is to ask: 'were it true, that enlightenment were a realisable, knowable state, would it matter to you that you could not explain it intellectually the absolute truth you were able to intuit?'. Since we are guilty, as a species in current times, of subjecting all experiences, thoughts and phenomina to the application of science and deliberate intellect, we are surely also forced, paradoxically, to accept that if phenomina exist for which there is no intellectual explanation, we are unable to experience them or know them through our own worship of only that which the intellect can comprehend? It is an equally logical, indeed unavoidable, step from accepting that position to suggest that if such esoteric/mystical/non-logical states and experiences are possible, then far from advancing us, our insistence on intellect and progress achieved through the application of such is what actually holds us back from our true potential?

Based my experiences I would say yes.

The reason all religions speak in metaphor is because the deep knowing you speak of is not "of the mind". The mind and our language can only describe it in "pointers" or "signposts". But people often end up worshipping the signposts and then create elaborate mind structures around them.

If only you knew how bad things really are.
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#4

Plato's Mysticism and The Perrenial Tradition

Quote: (11-13-2015 10:18 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

I think the key to understanding Plato is to understand that before Aristotle, there was no clear distinction between religion and philosophy. It's clear from reading the works of Plato that he was to some extent trying to start a religious movement.

Aristotle was the first to decided that religion and philosophy are two completely separate things, and this distinction has held since in western thought.

Whereas in eastern thought, the lines between religion and philosophy remained blurred and studying the one was often seen as end to achieve the other.

Platonism never had widespread appeal and its mystical aspects ended up being absorbed into Christian thought.

Plato was my introduction into philosophy in general and while I'm grateful to him for teaching me that life should not be lived passively but analytically, I seemed to have outgrown his rather arrogant style of thinking and I just have not been able to get back into his dialogues, despite making an effort during the past year.

That said, the Apology of Socrates is one of the most incredible things ever written, but it's also the least Platonic of all Plato's writings.

Thomas, thank you for your reply.

Quote:Quote:

I think the key to understanding Plato is to understand that before Aristotle, there was no clear distinction between religion and philosophy. It's clear from reading the works of Plato that he was to some extent trying to start a religious movement.

I think that is true. I also think that Plato might argue that much of his philosophy revolved around removing the kind of dogmatic thought typically associated with religion. I think, if I may offer an alternative analysis not wholly removed from your own: since, and because of, Aristotle, philosophy means something other than what it did in the great traditions of Hermetic Philosophy and indeed pre-Aristotalian Hellenic philosophy - to the extent that it became a different discipline.

On the issue of him attempting to start a religion, I am not so sure. The interpretation I favour is that Plato uses Socrates as a mouthpiece to attempt to induce a state of meditation on the 'inner-life', and to promote active contemplation on the self. One of the interesting points of the article, which if you have some exposure to Plato I think you'd really enjoy, is that until Plato, 'poetry' - in the broadest sense of the oral tradition, was used to record history, and pass on facts and knowledge. Plato started the written tradition, which diverted mental resources away from learning by wrote, and therefore blank acceptance, and encouraged people towards a more reasoned and questioning existence. I think far from trying to start a religion, he was trying to open people's minds to the possibilities of the Perennial Tradition, and steer them away from a story-based knowledge of facts and existence.

Quote:Quote:

Aristotle was the first to decided that religion and philosophy are two completely separate things, and this distinction has held since in western thought.

Certainly. However, one of the great paradoxes of this position, as I understand it, is that despite demanding that all things be subject to the application of the conscious intellect, there is no empirical method for saying conclusively that this should be so. In many respects, it is in itself an equivalent act of faith as believing in enlightenment, simply replacing 'God' with 'Science' (the two used in the loosest of terms). The intellectual leap of faith appears to be equal in magnitude, though the implications of each obviously differ significantly.

Quote:Quote:

Platonism never had widespread appeal and its mystical aspects ended up being absorbed into Christian thought.

This is an interesting idea, but one I believe actually has relatively little merit. It is a part of the subject I am looking into more closely at the moment, and would like to come back on with more ordered thoughts. I have read some very interesting things that suggest Christianity is actually a very dilute version of the purer Perennial Tradition that Plato was espousing.
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#5

Plato's Mysticism and The Perrenial Tradition

Quote: (11-13-2015 12:35 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(11-13-2015, 03:18 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  [quote]Quote:

Platonism never had widespread appeal and its mystical aspects ended up being absorbed into Christian thought.

This is an interesting idea, but one I believe actually has relatively little merit. It is a part of the subject I am looking into more closely at the moment, and would like to come back on with more ordered thoughts. I have read some very interesting things that suggest Christianity is actually a very dilute version of the purer Perennial Tradition that Plato was espousing.

Nietzsche once said that Christianity was "Platonism for the masses".

Apparently neo-Platonism (associated with thinkers like Plotinus) was very influential on the development of Christianity. I'm actually getting this idea the introduction to this book (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19510...phorisms). I haven't done independent research on this myself and I haven't read the works of Plotinus so I can't say if it's true or not.

As for the Aristotle vs. Plato thing, that's a trope that's been around philosophy and people who are interested in the history of though for a while now. The trope involves a contrast between Plato who is seen as this romantic, esoteric almost artist like philosopher who places emphasis on depths of human imagination and creativity versus Aristotle who is more somber and dry and places his emphasis on empirical experience, basically like a proto-scientist.

As for why the Apology is the least "Platonic" of all of Plato's writing, the explanation I read (from the book 'Confessions of a Philosopher' by Bryan Magee) was that in the early Platonic dialogues, the Socrates character is supposed to be closely based on the actual historical Socrates. The ideas expressed by Socrates in these dialogues is supposed to mirror what the historical Socrates taught to his disciples. With the later dialogues the Socrates character starts to become a mouthpiece for Plato rather then the actual Socrates.
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