I'm not here to be fixed Lizard of Oz. This post isn't even about me. I'm simply telling my stories to the original poster so he can learn from them.
Shall we move on now?
Shall we move on now?
Reflections of a two year LTR
Sure, LINUX. You're a proud guy and you'll do what you'll do.
same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
Quote: (10-24-2015 06:54 PM)wi30 Wrote:
Onto, +1. Love your ideas. I've been dreaming of real estate since I was 15 years old. The problem is that I'm still working a job that pays me an extra ten bucks an hour in tips and banks hate it. Hence, why I'm going to try to use my sister to co-sign. I can't get a conventional loan until I get a new job. I've been looking into the mortgage department at local banks but I want to do it, not underwrite it. My career is basically in flux until I can be a full time landlord. Hell, at least I know what I want.
Anyone who says my gf is going to take her share and bail has never been in realistic LTR. It's easy to say I told you so when you're single. Get real, she has no knowledge or interest in real estate. She likes the safety net of me providing for her through real estate. Huge difference.
If you don't have the income/credit to get a loan, you really need to think about your short-term priorities and establish a foundation first. If your plan requires sister co-signers and a GF (for the second loan) to make things possible, you're not ready to play this game just yet. You really ought to have a steady well-paying gig (or have what you need to get loans) to do this right at first. A few bad breaks and you can't get a loan to cover your ass? You're fucked. Throw in GF/sister co-signers and making them liable for issues and now you got a REAL clusterfuck on your hands.
As I said before, your GF should have ZERO ties to your business. ZERO. And what is this bullshit about not being in a realistic LTR? Did I just misread that or something? You sound like you have blinders on all of sudden; I don't get it since you sounded quite level headed earlier. If you think a woman helps you build a business in any way, however small, and isn't going to have an interest in its financial gains if things go south between you.... then I can't help you. She might not have any interest in real estate but her lawyers will when they find out she has legal ties (however retarded from a common sense perspective) to your business and therefore, legal claim to its assets/profits.
Excluding the marriage/wife/GF angle for a minute, ANY kind of business partnership is not to be taken lightly (this does not mean an active partner; ANYONE who has legal claim/rights on assets/profits with regards to the business is a partner). But being business partners with a romantic partner is historically VERY dangerous and many a person (both men and women) have had businesses destroyed due to ex-romantic partners. I posted a link earlier about this subject matter and how to protect yourself. I HIGHLY advise you read it to get a sense of what could happen, how to protect yourself, and how even a tiny legal tie another person has to your business can royally fuck your shit up big time.
Anyhow, your sister is a bit more debatable as far as bringing her in on things but please trust me on this, mixing family and big money can get really dicey real quick. I'm speaking from experience; it can end very badly.
Ultimately, you need to get a foundation first (better paying gig, stable income, credit, etc... whatever you need to get loans on your own). Then, start building things up on your own. If you must get help, get it from reliable family. No GF or wife should even have .0000001% involvement. Fucking ZERO. I can't emphasis this enough.
I understand. You are eager to get on with it and kick ass but there is a right way and a wrong way. The way you are talking right now and how you want to roll is the wrong way. It might take a little longer to get things off the ground but you will be thousand times better off in the long run if you do things right from the get go.
^ I hear what you're saying Black Knight, but it's often not practical or even desirable to exclude your wife from your personal business interests. My parents, who divorced, would buy multi-family properties together, and fix them up together. I remember them painting, wall-papering, etc. while my sister would play hide-and-seek. Those were good times.
I've had two latina ltr's help me get my apartments ready to rent and I enjoyed us working together, plus they taught me how to clean better. You really want your wife to be busy working for you. Whether it's as a home-maker, mother of your children, or helping with your business.
I can understand your position though, but I think divorce laws these days will just take 50% or more of whatever you have regardless of who contributed. May as well have her really contributing and feel like she's part of something.
When my Father later remarried, 30 yrs now, his new wife became the secretary for his business. It worked well and they are still happily married, so far as I can see.
The real purpose of marriage is for each person to let go of their individual lives and interests to become One. One goal, One vision, and everything done in their lives is for the good of that Union. The man always sets the direction, but a smart woman knows how to turn his head in the direction she wants it to lead.
That said, wi30's comment that you bolded above does seem like he has blinders on because if things go south, she will take every penny possible. I missed that statement and it's good you caught it.
wi30,
She likes the safety net of Real Estate? A marriage is like walking a tightrope, and a safety net is what's used when things go south isn't it? I'm sure she likes it being there, and I wouldn't fault her for that. If I were a woman I would prefer a man with money and a safety net vs one without, but realize that she sees it there as a benefit for her. She is a self-interested person after all, like the rest of us.
No one thinks their love can be capable of selfish things when things are going great. It's probably like sailing for the first time on the ocean for two years and never encountering bad weather. You just don't think it's possible a hurricane can come and leave you shipwrecked on a deserted island with nothing left.
I've had two latina ltr's help me get my apartments ready to rent and I enjoyed us working together, plus they taught me how to clean better. You really want your wife to be busy working for you. Whether it's as a home-maker, mother of your children, or helping with your business.
I can understand your position though, but I think divorce laws these days will just take 50% or more of whatever you have regardless of who contributed. May as well have her really contributing and feel like she's part of something.
When my Father later remarried, 30 yrs now, his new wife became the secretary for his business. It worked well and they are still happily married, so far as I can see.
The real purpose of marriage is for each person to let go of their individual lives and interests to become One. One goal, One vision, and everything done in their lives is for the good of that Union. The man always sets the direction, but a smart woman knows how to turn his head in the direction she wants it to lead.
That said, wi30's comment that you bolded above does seem like he has blinders on because if things go south, she will take every penny possible. I missed that statement and it's good you caught it.
wi30,
She likes the safety net of Real Estate? A marriage is like walking a tightrope, and a safety net is what's used when things go south isn't it? I'm sure she likes it being there, and I wouldn't fault her for that. If I were a woman I would prefer a man with money and a safety net vs one without, but realize that she sees it there as a benefit for her. She is a self-interested person after all, like the rest of us.
No one thinks their love can be capable of selfish things when things are going great. It's probably like sailing for the first time on the ocean for two years and never encountering bad weather. You just don't think it's possible a hurricane can come and leave you shipwrecked on a deserted island with nothing left.
Quote: (10-25-2015 07:01 AM)Onto Wrote:
^ I hear what you're saying Black Knight, but it's often not practical or even desirable to exclude your wife from your personal business interests. My parents, who divorced, would buy multi-family properties together, and fix them up together. I remember them painting, wall-papering, etc. while my sister would play hide-and-seek. Those were good times.
I've had two latina ltr's help me get my apartments ready to rent and I enjoyed us working together, plus they taught me how to clean better. You really want your wife to be busy working for you. Whether it's as a home-maker, mother of your children, or helping with your business.
I can understand your position though, but I think divorce laws these days will just take 50% or more of whatever you have regardless of who contributed. May as well have her really contributing and feel like she's part of something.
When my Father later remarried, 30 yrs now, his new wife became the secretary for his business. It worked well and they are still happily married, so far as I can see.
The real purpose of marriage is for each person to let go of their individual lives and interests to become One. One goal, One vision, and everything done in their lives is for the good of that Union. The man always sets the direction, but a smart woman knows how to turn his head in the direction she wants it to lead.
That said, wi30's comment that you bolded above does seem like he has blinders on because if things go south, she will take every penny possible. I missed that statement and it's good you caught it.
wi30,
She likes the safety net of Real Estate? A marriage is like walking a tightrope, and a safety net is what's used when things go south isn't it? I'm sure she likes it being there, and I wouldn't fault her for that. If I were a woman I would prefer a man with money and a safety net vs one without, but realize that she sees it there as a benefit for her. She is a self-interested person after all, like the rest of us.
No one thinks their love can be capable of selfish things when things are going great. It's probably like sailing for the first time on the ocean for two years and never encountering bad weather. You just don't think it's possible a hurricane can come and leave you shipwrecked on a deserted island with nothing left.
Onto, I also hear what you are saying and in a fair world, what you say would be perfectly fine. But it’s far from a fair world these days; especially for hard working men.
As I said earlier in the thread: I don’t even recommend getting married in the US. This eliminates A LOT of issues right off the bat.
If you are not married, you just have to keep the LTR out of the business and you are mostly set protecting yourself.
I do wish the world you illustrated existed: working as a team, everyone gets a fair shake, and everything works out at in the end. But that’s not the current reality given the present legal system. Getting a business tangled with a LTR/wife is very dangerous and potentially very costly. Everyone has to make their own calls in life depending on their respective circumstances but for me, it’s an easy one to make. In 2015 America sadly, it’s not even a debate in my mind.
Onto, I said she likes the idea of being provided for through real estate. Or more generally stated, likes the idea of me building financial independence, like any and every woman.
Black Knight, I didn't mean to come across as disrespectful, and I need to clarify on a couple points. So much of the manosphere thinks women trick men into marriage solely to divorce rape them. Like they sit around the table at brunch drinking mimosas with their girlfriends and plot how to cuck and rob their husbands. My girlfriend comes from a working class family in a town of 1700 in northern Wisconsin. She's far from materialistic and even said if we got married she didn't want a wedding or diamond ring. She thinks both are superficial.
Have you guys ever had a girl truly in love with you? Full blown head over heels? You can see it in their eyes when you walk into the room. They almost have a child-like sparkle in their eyes. I've been with my share of sluts and even decent girls. Most won't look at you that way even when in a relationship. But when you find one who simply just loves you for you, it's hard to explain. While your comments have been extremely helpful, it just seems you are speaking very generally. It's great to be cautious, but I'm betting it's near impossible not to mix any sort of financials when in a marriage. A prenup is a given in every situation, but if one takes the plunge into marriage they cannot negate 100% of the risk. Out of everyone I know, I have one friend who has also found a date-able girl on U.S soil. They're rare, but they're out there.
I'm making decent money right now but it's a job to me, not a career. The only career I can imagine myself doing is full-time real estate investing. I also have an excellent credit rating and history for someone my age. The part about including my sister as a co-signer is strictly because FHA requires you to provide two full years of tax returns. As I stated, I'm less than a year out of school and didn't work full-time while attending classes. So when a lender averages the past couple years, I'm not going to qualify for a very big loan. That removes a huge portion of potential properties in my area. I also make a portion of my current income in cash and would have to file amended tax returns and jump through even more hoops with the lender. Getting my rich sister to co-sign would greatly increase the amount I could borrow. Why limit myself to such a small pool when I could possibly find a better deal by having a co-signer. Like Onto said, we need to do everything we can to max out our one and only FHA loan.
Regarding mixing finances, I don't have any blinders on and I also don't plan on mixing anything with her. I provided an example to further take advantage of an FHA loan. If I were planning on marriage, I would use her to get an FHA loan on a property to take advantage of the deal before getting married. From my understanding, you only get one and I don't think married couples can each apply for one individually. It would be a way of beating the system if I were to go that route. There's no way in hell I'm getting a joint account or anything like that. And the only part she would be playing in any property is suggestions on interior design and other little things that girls have better eyes for.
Again, all of the things are for maxing out the potential of my one and only FHA loan. I'm not struggling for money or jumping from job to job. I am planning on finding a new job in a real estate related field to gain more knowledge on the day to day aspects and fully immerse myself in the industry. I'm thinking of finding something with a title company, bank, or property management firm.
Black Knight, I didn't mean to come across as disrespectful, and I need to clarify on a couple points. So much of the manosphere thinks women trick men into marriage solely to divorce rape them. Like they sit around the table at brunch drinking mimosas with their girlfriends and plot how to cuck and rob their husbands. My girlfriend comes from a working class family in a town of 1700 in northern Wisconsin. She's far from materialistic and even said if we got married she didn't want a wedding or diamond ring. She thinks both are superficial.
Have you guys ever had a girl truly in love with you? Full blown head over heels? You can see it in their eyes when you walk into the room. They almost have a child-like sparkle in their eyes. I've been with my share of sluts and even decent girls. Most won't look at you that way even when in a relationship. But when you find one who simply just loves you for you, it's hard to explain. While your comments have been extremely helpful, it just seems you are speaking very generally. It's great to be cautious, but I'm betting it's near impossible not to mix any sort of financials when in a marriage. A prenup is a given in every situation, but if one takes the plunge into marriage they cannot negate 100% of the risk. Out of everyone I know, I have one friend who has also found a date-able girl on U.S soil. They're rare, but they're out there.
I'm making decent money right now but it's a job to me, not a career. The only career I can imagine myself doing is full-time real estate investing. I also have an excellent credit rating and history for someone my age. The part about including my sister as a co-signer is strictly because FHA requires you to provide two full years of tax returns. As I stated, I'm less than a year out of school and didn't work full-time while attending classes. So when a lender averages the past couple years, I'm not going to qualify for a very big loan. That removes a huge portion of potential properties in my area. I also make a portion of my current income in cash and would have to file amended tax returns and jump through even more hoops with the lender. Getting my rich sister to co-sign would greatly increase the amount I could borrow. Why limit myself to such a small pool when I could possibly find a better deal by having a co-signer. Like Onto said, we need to do everything we can to max out our one and only FHA loan.
Regarding mixing finances, I don't have any blinders on and I also don't plan on mixing anything with her. I provided an example to further take advantage of an FHA loan. If I were planning on marriage, I would use her to get an FHA loan on a property to take advantage of the deal before getting married. From my understanding, you only get one and I don't think married couples can each apply for one individually. It would be a way of beating the system if I were to go that route. There's no way in hell I'm getting a joint account or anything like that. And the only part she would be playing in any property is suggestions on interior design and other little things that girls have better eyes for.
Again, all of the things are for maxing out the potential of my one and only FHA loan. I'm not struggling for money or jumping from job to job. I am planning on finding a new job in a real estate related field to gain more knowledge on the day to day aspects and fully immerse myself in the industry. I'm thinking of finding something with a title company, bank, or property management firm.
I know very well what it's like to be loved the way you describe and also to be the one doing the adoring. Though never been married, I've been engaged twice, lived with women, and have had many LTR's over the past almost 30 years now. Your girl sounds like a great woman, and no one here can say otherwise. What I can tell you is the nature of LTR/Marriages change over time. The weather doesn't always stay the same. There are reasons for this, and it's not just in America. It's a facet of human nature itself, but that's another topic.
If you want to marry her than go for it. You've been on the forum for over 5 years now. You're definitely wiser than the average bear. Just stay sharp.
Becoming a Realtor or just getting a Realtor's license would be a good move I think. Being a mortgage broker can also be lucrative and get you a nice in. You've got some good ideas, including you both doing an FHA loan before you get married.
Having your sister be a co-signer is awesome. She has no rights to your property, only liability. It's a very big favor to ask of her and her husband. My parents lent me money to buy my place and I paid them back promptly in full 2 months later. My grandparents did the same for my parents. Many families do that for each other, especially if they know they will get paid back.
If you want to marry her than go for it. You've been on the forum for over 5 years now. You're definitely wiser than the average bear. Just stay sharp.
Becoming a Realtor or just getting a Realtor's license would be a good move I think. Being a mortgage broker can also be lucrative and get you a nice in. You've got some good ideas, including you both doing an FHA loan before you get married.
Having your sister be a co-signer is awesome. She has no rights to your property, only liability. It's a very big favor to ask of her and her husband. My parents lent me money to buy my place and I paid them back promptly in full 2 months later. My grandparents did the same for my parents. Many families do that for each other, especially if they know they will get paid back.
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Another aspect of the relationship is that our personalities simply click. I've had plenty of girls in the past where I was actively thinking of when to say 'x' and do 'y'. I was interacting on a pick up level instead of simply being myself. While the advice of 'being yourself' is usually terrible, after gaining the basics it is exactly what you need to do. I had matured into the man I wanted to be because of this forum and Roosh's works. I picked my girlfriend up by talking to her at a friend's house, getting her number, texting her to go to parties (she didn't go out much), switched it up and took her on a hike, and a week later got her into bed. I even sent her a "last night was fun" text to protect from a false rape claim. She laughed when I told her about it because a non-damaged girl doesn't have those thoughts.
We also have the same sense of humor which matters more than you would think. When it's 90 degrees out and the A/C is broken, humor is really all you have left. She's been a ride or die sidekick the last 2 years. I've been bouncing through a couple jobs trying to catch my stride after college and she's taken the support role like a boss. I've been stuck working 65 hours a week and she keeps up the house, takes care of my dog like it's her own child, and makes sure I'm happy when I'm home. I really can't complain about anything.
Great for you. Everything I'm reading here sounds like you've got a keeper relationship. I'm the same way in mine and it has been fantastic....everyone else who I know that is in a good relationship is the same way with their women.
As I see it one of the hallmarks of a quality woman is that she does shit for you when there's no payoff. Like what you're saying when shes doing everything you need to and adapting her work to complementing the demands on you.
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Bottom line: YOUR career ALWAYS comes first and NEVER forget that the game never ends; it MUST evolve with the circumstances.
Also true. To the OP, don't ever sit on your laurels or get lazy. You've got to stay in shape, stay confident, and stay social. If you get lazy and slow down you will regress to being the kind of guy you were before you met her and if that happens the writing will be on the wall.
Quote: (10-25-2015 05:01 PM)wi30 Wrote:
So much of the manosphere thinks women trick men into marriage solely to divorce rape them. Like they sit around the table at brunch drinking mimosas with their girlfriends and plot how to cuck and rob their husbands. My girlfriend comes from a working class family in a town of 1700 in northern Wisconsin. She's far from materialistic and even said if we got married she didn't want a wedding or diamond ring. She thinks both are superficial.
That's because a lot of women DO happen to do that; particularly after they have been married for a bit and have had a daily full breakfast of Eat, Prey, Fuck cereal with some Go-Girl juice for a number of years. Some of them are very good con artists and they have both the legal system and culture backing them up.
Quote:Quote:
Have you guys ever had a girl truly in love with you? Full blown head over heels? You can see it in their eyes when you walk into the room. They almost have a child-like sparkle in their eyes. I've been with my share of sluts and even decent girls. Most won't look at you that way even when in a relationship. But when you find one who simply just loves you for you, it's hard to explain. While your comments have been extremely helpful, it just seems you are speaking very generally
Of course I'm speaking somewhat broadly (I said this earlier) but I have had more than a few women tell me "I'm the love of their life." All are exes now and ALL had that sparkle. A woman can have that sparkle in her eye, say all the nice things one day and a month later go completely cold on you for a variety reasons.
If you haven't experienced that before, you will probably find out one day like most experienced men. Most of my words have been geared towards psychologically and financially preparing you for that since it has been clear since the start of the thread that you are very invested.
Quote:Quote:
It's great to be cautious, but I'm betting it's near impossible not to mix any sort of financials when in a marriage. A prenup is a given in every situation, but if one takes the plunge into marriage they cannot negate 100% of the risk
It is impossible in the sense that once you're married, you open yourself to all sorts of financial liabilities. A prenup will often not do much, often is amended or shredded entirely by judges all the time, and really isn't going to protect anything unless you have already succeeded in life. Marrying a woman in the US when you are still up and coming means if things go south, she has claim to assets/money from all those years.
Here are the followings things I am aware of regarding your plans:
1. You sound like you want to do the provider thing with her; get married.
2. Want to live in America - where both the legal system and culture are heavily tilted agaisnt providers.
3. She is an American chick - small town whatever doesn't mean much dude. Sorry.
4. She is working a low-level job and is content with staying home - this means you be the high earner obviously.
5. Want to use the GF to acquire a loan in the early stages of building a real estate business.
You know what that sounds like?
It sounds like the Divorce Rape train is coming in the distance.
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Getting my rich sister to co-sign would greatly increase the amount I could borrow. Why limit myself to such a small pool when I could possibly find a better deal by having a co-signer. Like Onto said, we need to do everything we can to max out our one and only FHA loan.
Using the sister is at least an option. Just be careful.
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Regarding mixing finances, I don't have any blinders on and I also don't plan on mixing anything with her. I provided an example to further take advantage of an FHA loan. If I were planning on marriage, I would use her to get an FHA loan on a property to take advantage of the deal before getting married
This is contradictory and makes no sense. Don't plan on mixing anything with her BUT you would use her to get a loan to get a property in the early stages of a business you plan on growing? I am going to break this down one more time since this point doesn't seem to be sinking in:
Hypothetical but realistic future situation on how you get fucked
1. You use FHA loan under her to get property 2.
2. You use profits from that property to get loan for property 3.
3. You keep this in your name or under an LLC.
4. You get married.
5. Your real estate business grows and you now have 15 properties under your LLC. Life is great.
6. Wife at year 10 of marriage has her Eat, Prey, Fuck moment and wants out.
7. She goes to a lawyer and tells her about property 2 and how that led you to buy property 3, 4 etc and so forth.
8. The lawyer now realizes that EVERYTHING in the LLC from property 2 onward, the profits, the assets, everything is no longer a separate entity and can be consider martial property in the divorce. Property 1 which you bought with the sister co-signer is up for grabs too since it is also under the LLC and part of the business.
9. Because your soon to be ex-wife has no interest in real estate and wants her share upfront, you are force to sell assets/properties (probably at a significant loss), heavily damaging your business if not out right destroying it, and you have to pay her spousal maintenance payments AND child support payments on your PREVIOUS high-earning income. Judge doesn't care that you can't pay. No one cares.
10. You end up a much older man where money matters for pulling chicks, you have little of it, and fall into a depression and realize finally that if you had took Black Knights advice 12 years ago, you would have avoided all this bullshit.
Understand man, we are just trying to protect you. No one wants to shit on your parade unnecessarily. But some of us have had to learn these lessons in life the hard way and we know how bad it can be. We don't wish what we have gone through upon any man.
^ The chance it will go down as Black Knight says is probably greater then 50%.
wi30, you've got to understand. Just about every guy that's been married and divorce raped once felt exactly as you do now.
I'm not saying don't go forward and do it, but realize the odds are against you and if things go south you live in a country where it won't be very fair to you. Not very fair at all.
Like Black Knight says, we don't want to rain on your parade, but the forum is able to be distant and give you objective advice. That's what we're here for.
Shit, one day I'll probably be on here starting a thread about bringing a Filipina bride back to the States. Hope to God everyone slaps some sense in to me then.
Edit: I did a quick thread search on Divorce and our buddy CleanSlate's thread has the most pages. Give it a read. Also do a forum search on "Divorce" in titles and give them a read. If after that, you still think you want to make a go of it then go for it, chips all in.
thread-44564...ht=Divorce
wi30, you've got to understand. Just about every guy that's been married and divorce raped once felt exactly as you do now.
I'm not saying don't go forward and do it, but realize the odds are against you and if things go south you live in a country where it won't be very fair to you. Not very fair at all.
Like Black Knight says, we don't want to rain on your parade, but the forum is able to be distant and give you objective advice. That's what we're here for.
Shit, one day I'll probably be on here starting a thread about bringing a Filipina bride back to the States. Hope to God everyone slaps some sense in to me then.
Edit: I did a quick thread search on Divorce and our buddy CleanSlate's thread has the most pages. Give it a read. Also do a forum search on "Divorce" in titles and give them a read. If after that, you still think you want to make a go of it then go for it, chips all in.
thread-44564...ht=Divorce
Quote: (10-24-2015 09:30 PM)LINUX Wrote:
Believe it or not, I was like you at one time. I'm going to share something about myself because I've had a few glasses of whiskey and I need to catch a plane in a few hours to some town between 'nowhere and goodbye.'
I was married for three or four years. I had a great marriage, best friends, workout partners, never fought. etc.. Then one day I got really sick and I needed someone to take care of me and she split.
This past year I put up about 100 notches. The other night I was laying in bed with this girl from the club and I was wishing she would just disappear. I started asking myself why I do this.. Why do I live this lifestyle. And it hit me, I have nothing to prove, I'm good looking, I'm educated, I have plenty of money...but I do it because I don't believe love last forever. So every opportunity I have that I can feel love, I take it.
You don't want to end up like that man. Keep living this dream if it makes you happy because most of us on this side of the pond are broken. And, as hopeful and optimistic as I can be, there is a good chance you'll become me in 10 years, giving this advice to another young buck coming up, but I wish it wasn't so.
Always two sides to the story. Think about all the married guys around the world thinking that exact same shit. That being said, I did and I do fuck a lot. I had LTRs, I was single. I remaind faithful and I cheated. I came to the conclusion that all of it sucks and all of it is great. There is no spoon, Ying Yang and shit.
Black Knight, thanks for the reality check. The second FHA option is a complete hypothetical though. Would it save me thousands of dollars in the short term? Yes. Am I willing to make the long term bet on my relationship though? Definitely not yet. If we're still together in a few years and I like how things are going, it could be an option to revisit. And that's all it is, an option.
I understand how ridiculous marriage is in the U.S. today. I'm not trying to be wide-eyed and assume I'm the exception to the rule. If I ever choose get married, to my current girlfriend or someone else, I'm meeting with a divorce lawyer before proposing. I would also have an extremely detailed prenup drawn up due to property being involved. I've also thought of having a formal wedding someday but never submitting marriage documents to the state. The tax breaks aren't worth the risk. They could still get you on cohabitation though.
I've experienced other girls falling in love with me, but it wasn't the same. Hell, after 2 years my girlfriend still acts like she did in the honeymoon phase. I enjoy being optimistic and thinking that I won't get burned, but I'm also a realist and know when to hit the eject button. If I've learned anything from my time on this forum it's that you can predict a change in the behavior of a girl before it happens. In the past I've been able to guess when a girl was about to go cold days or weeks before she actually did.
I understand how ridiculous marriage is in the U.S. today. I'm not trying to be wide-eyed and assume I'm the exception to the rule. If I ever choose get married, to my current girlfriend or someone else, I'm meeting with a divorce lawyer before proposing. I would also have an extremely detailed prenup drawn up due to property being involved. I've also thought of having a formal wedding someday but never submitting marriage documents to the state. The tax breaks aren't worth the risk. They could still get you on cohabitation though.
I've experienced other girls falling in love with me, but it wasn't the same. Hell, after 2 years my girlfriend still acts like she did in the honeymoon phase. I enjoy being optimistic and thinking that I won't get burned, but I'm also a realist and know when to hit the eject button. If I've learned anything from my time on this forum it's that you can predict a change in the behavior of a girl before it happens. In the past I've been able to guess when a girl was about to go cold days or weeks before she actually did.
What is her family situation like?
You gotta look at the relationship that her parents have. If her parents went through rough patches during her childhood but stuck together and figured their shit out she is more likely to have that mindset. I'm not saying that's a sure-fire tell of the future thing. It depends on how much your girl is influenced by her parents.
You gotta look at the relationship that her parents have. If her parents went through rough patches during her childhood but stuck together and figured their shit out she is more likely to have that mindset. I'm not saying that's a sure-fire tell of the future thing. It depends on how much your girl is influenced by her parents.
Stable two family household. Her dad is very introverted and outdoorsy but clearly has the final say in all decisions. Her mom is a sweetheart. Knits and quilts at a level where she could make it a full time career. They don't watch TV and spend evenings playing cards. Rarely eat out, always make healthy home cooked meals. They are very nice people, albeit a bit boring for my tastes.
Earlier in the relationship after I took her to my parents the first couple times, she asked if I thought it was weird that she'd rather spend time with my family on an off weekend instead of hers. My family's big, boisterous, and extremely outgoing. They love her. Every time we go back she texts my sister so she can bring the kids over. My two year old niece asks when my girlfriend is coming home next, not her uncle. My 5 year old nephew grabbed her tit last Thanksgiving dinner. I high fived my brother in law while my sister freaked out.
She has basically integrated into my family and plans her family's holidays around mine and my family's. My mom texts her to see which weekends we will be visiting without consulting me. My dad says fucked up jokes at her expense while he's brewing beer and smoking ribs on the deck. She takes it like a champ and dishes it right back at him.
She's very close to her mother. They text back and forth all the time. I wouldn't say her dad is distant, but I've noticed he never says much in any situation. He was clearly there for her, but I've always thought he was socially awkward compared to my crazy family. Just a quiet, well spoken dude who only speaks when he has something meaningful to say.
Earlier in the relationship after I took her to my parents the first couple times, she asked if I thought it was weird that she'd rather spend time with my family on an off weekend instead of hers. My family's big, boisterous, and extremely outgoing. They love her. Every time we go back she texts my sister so she can bring the kids over. My two year old niece asks when my girlfriend is coming home next, not her uncle. My 5 year old nephew grabbed her tit last Thanksgiving dinner. I high fived my brother in law while my sister freaked out.
She has basically integrated into my family and plans her family's holidays around mine and my family's. My mom texts her to see which weekends we will be visiting without consulting me. My dad says fucked up jokes at her expense while he's brewing beer and smoking ribs on the deck. She takes it like a champ and dishes it right back at him.
She's very close to her mother. They text back and forth all the time. I wouldn't say her dad is distant, but I've noticed he never says much in any situation. He was clearly there for her, but I've always thought he was socially awkward compared to my crazy family. Just a quiet, well spoken dude who only speaks when he has something meaningful to say.
wi30, hopefully people didn't scare you too much in this thread.
I would just enjoy the time you have together. It could be a month or 20 years. Who really knows.
Also, I would plan out my own retirement without commingling finances with your girlfriend. If you two do get married then things would change.
I prefer relationships myself. One night stands can be fun, but nothing compared to being with someone you care for. I just enjoy the relationships without worrying how long they will last. Worrying about something tends to bring that something into reality.
For now, keep it simple and just enjoy the intimacy.
I would just enjoy the time you have together. It could be a month or 20 years. Who really knows.
Also, I would plan out my own retirement without commingling finances with your girlfriend. If you two do get married then things would change.
I prefer relationships myself. One night stands can be fun, but nothing compared to being with someone you care for. I just enjoy the relationships without worrying how long they will last. Worrying about something tends to bring that something into reality.
For now, keep it simple and just enjoy the intimacy.
Its been a while since I have read such solid advice, while still carrying an obvious level of respect and care. This type of thread is why I still come back and think this is all worth it.
Its strange how we are all essentially on the same timeline. Some are early, some are deep in it, and some have walked off- possibly never to return.
I still stick to my opinion that the west is not dead. While I do agree that the solid foundation of our culture is being eroded, I still think that the small majority of good people will just have to take on more work. Without knowing the OP and his girlfriend personally, it would be hard to tell for sure. But I take what people write as mostly truth, so I would like to think that his girlfriend is just taking on more responsibility for maintaining her cultural values. For every #YOLO girl, there has to be some ratio of girls like yours to balance things out.
The west will not die in the long foreseeable future. Its just going to be much harder, and more work for those of us who are not willing to let it die. I cant let it die, as I am one of the men who is "deep in it". But this has not stopped me from getting my son a second, foreign passport to a country that is 98.5% homogeneous. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Its strange how we are all essentially on the same timeline. Some are early, some are deep in it, and some have walked off- possibly never to return.
I still stick to my opinion that the west is not dead. While I do agree that the solid foundation of our culture is being eroded, I still think that the small majority of good people will just have to take on more work. Without knowing the OP and his girlfriend personally, it would be hard to tell for sure. But I take what people write as mostly truth, so I would like to think that his girlfriend is just taking on more responsibility for maintaining her cultural values. For every #YOLO girl, there has to be some ratio of girls like yours to balance things out.
The west will not die in the long foreseeable future. Its just going to be much harder, and more work for those of us who are not willing to let it die. I cant let it die, as I am one of the men who is "deep in it". But this has not stopped me from getting my son a second, foreign passport to a country that is 98.5% homogeneous. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Quote: (10-25-2015 09:47 PM)wi30 Wrote:
Stable two family household. Her dad is very introverted and outdoorsy but clearly has the final say in all decisions. Her mom is a sweetheart. Knits and quilts at a level where she could make it a full time career. They don't watch TV and spend evenings playing cards. Rarely eat out, always make healthy home cooked meals. They are very nice people, albeit a bit boring for my tastes.
Earlier in the relationship after I took her to my parents the first couple times, she asked if I thought it was weird that she'd rather spend time with my family on an off weekend instead of hers. My family's big, boisterous, and extremely outgoing. They love her. Every time we go back she texts my sister so she can bring the kids over. My two year old niece asks when my girlfriend is coming home next, not her uncle. My 5 year old nephew grabbed her tit last Thanksgiving dinner. I high fived my brother in law while my sister freaked out.
She has basically integrated into my family and plans her family's holidays around mine and my family's. My mom texts her to see which weekends we will be visiting without consulting me. My dad says fucked up jokes at her expense while he's brewing beer and smoking ribs on the deck. She takes it like a champ and dishes it right back at him.
She's very close to her mother. They text back and forth all the time. I wouldn't say her dad is distant, but I've noticed he never says much in any situation. He was clearly there for her, but I've always thought he was socially awkward compared to my crazy family. Just a quiet, well spoken dude who only speaks when he has something meaningful to say.
Now now, there goes your niece unlocked her bi/homo potential right there. Joking aside, yours and her background all checked out well (for me at least). What a lucky dude!
Like many have mentioned above, we all wish you all the best and it is great to hear story like yours haha. I am also on the boat with the 'don't mix your finance stuff with the partner, never ever'. Enjoy the ride as much as you can, keep improving yourself in gaming (and all other aspects).
what a lucky guy
![[Image: smile.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/smile.gif)
come back and tell us you became some big property tycoon in 5/10 years time. all the best mate
Quote: (10-26-2015 03:20 AM)Laner Wrote:
Its been a while since I have read such solid advice, while still carrying an obvious level of respect and care. This type of thread is why I still come back and think this is all worth it.
Cosign this, this thread should be sticky about relationships and your future.
Some absolutely solid financial and relationship advice in this.
This thread is going in the perfect direction everyone is hoping for.
OP, I'm about your age and in a similar situation. My girlfriend is raised well, from a working class, very supportive and caring etc. Still I keep my business life totally private.
I have to cosign with Black Knight on his great advice. No offense meant, but you really sound like every happy husband/boyfriend JUST before they got fucked by their LTR. It's good that you have decided to take the risks, we are just trying to help you minimize them.
Here's an angle that you probably haven't thought about: by involving your girlfriend in your business, you are also cutting off your escape route. Right now everything is great, but people change. You might change. She might change. And when either of you do, with an arrangement like yours it will actually be a clusterfuck. You will not be able to entirely break off from each other because of "business ties".
It's useless to work with "if" but any good businessman/investor will only plunge into an affair if they know they can take the loss. If things ever go sideways, do you have the financial capabilities to recover from it? Your family will support you, but your LTR?
And not even business. There are tons of thread on here about how to recover possessions you left at your ex after you have broken up. The concensus is that, cut your losses. I think the latest thread the guy lost an expensive watch because his ex want to use it to hook him back, and it was a peaceful breakup. When it's something not expendable like your business is involved...
Whatever you decide, good luck.
OP, I'm about your age and in a similar situation. My girlfriend is raised well, from a working class, very supportive and caring etc. Still I keep my business life totally private.
I have to cosign with Black Knight on his great advice. No offense meant, but you really sound like every happy husband/boyfriend JUST before they got fucked by their LTR. It's good that you have decided to take the risks, we are just trying to help you minimize them.
Here's an angle that you probably haven't thought about: by involving your girlfriend in your business, you are also cutting off your escape route. Right now everything is great, but people change. You might change. She might change. And when either of you do, with an arrangement like yours it will actually be a clusterfuck. You will not be able to entirely break off from each other because of "business ties".
It's useless to work with "if" but any good businessman/investor will only plunge into an affair if they know they can take the loss. If things ever go sideways, do you have the financial capabilities to recover from it? Your family will support you, but your LTR?
And not even business. There are tons of thread on here about how to recover possessions you left at your ex after you have broken up. The concensus is that, cut your losses. I think the latest thread the guy lost an expensive watch because his ex want to use it to hook him back, and it was a peaceful breakup. When it's something not expendable like your business is involved...
Whatever you decide, good luck.
Ass or cash, nobody rides for free - WestIndiArchie
Bump because there has been too much negativity in the game section, and this thread goes well with the LTR Master Thread.
Any 3 year update?
Any 3 year update?
Am I the only one troubled by a man, particularly a man in his 20s, moving in with a woman. Dude you haven't seen nor have you experienced jack shit. I hate to start reciting the old trope about Alpha males vs Beta males, but your lack of cynicism is a bit disturbing. You need to appreciate this relationship for what it is and just know the a break-up is and should be inevitable. You need to focus on your career in your 20s as one poster has already noted. I have been married for 5 years and shit aint easy. We literally have no external factors adversely affecting us(toxic family, money, health...etc) and shit still aint easy. My wife makes a few times the salary i make so there's constant posturing for frame. She knows she married a legit alpha stud, but still feels the need to acquire hand. She was incredibly sweet in the beginning but guess what, that eventually waned. Experience life some young homey
Yes, we need an update OP.
![[Image: icon_razz.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/icon_razz.gif){kind=icon}
Quote: (10-17-2018 05:35 PM)Northern Wastes Wrote:
Bump because there has been too much negativity in the game section ...
Followed by...
Quote: (10-17-2018 07:05 PM)quaker13 Wrote:
Am I the only one troubled by a man, particularly a man in his 20s, moving in with a woman. Dude you haven't seen nor have you experienced jack shit. I hate to start reciting the old trope about Alpha males vs Beta males, but your lack of cynicism is a bit disturbing. ...
Indeed, Northern Wastes! This place cracks me up.
I know OP in real life and his life has changed a real lot in the past 3 years. I'll let him chime in when/if he wants.
I hope he’s still with this chick... Long term relationships work when the man is 100% dedicated to his job, sees his girl only on the weekends, and has her fully occupied with children.
The only way a man can remain alpha is if he’s constantly challenging himself with his work.
The only way a man can remain alpha is if he’s constantly challenging himself with his work.
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