[evilbuttmunch]

I'm having a second date with a girl I met online, she was pretty flirty when we met up for coffee but we haven't kissed yet. Texting she seems aloof, doesn't respond for a day at a time but when she does she's engaging me, so I'm not getting strong signals from her either way. If I didn't read Roosh's texting guide, I probably would have gone nuts by now.

We're meeting up tomorrow night at 8:30, ostensibly for drinks. The only nice areas I know are a suburban downtown area maybe ten minutes from her house and twenty from mine, and another maybe thirty minutes from her house and fifteen from mine, so she'd be passing my house on her way home. Since I live in the suburbs, there's nothing really nice and intimate near me where we can grab a drink, unless we just drink at a restaurant and forego the food. I believe she has to work on the weekend so I have no idea how late she will actually stay out.

I've only had two women over my place in the recent past. I asked them both over for dinner for a third date. One girl I didn't even kiss before the third date and the other girl we made out at the end of the second date and I guess it was implied that we'd fool around when I asked her over for date 3. So I have several different options here...

Go to a lounge in Area A near her and ask her to come over my place after, which is a 40 minute round trip out of her way (She probably wouldn't get to my place until 11)
Go to a lounge in Area B far from her and ask her to come over my place after, which won't be out of her way on the way back (Probably get to my place around 10:30)
Stay in my area for drinks at a restaurant that isn't going to be as nice, and ask her over my place after (Get to my place by 10)
Ask her to have dinner at my place or suggest to meet up at my place and we'll go out somewhere from there (My place at 8:30)
Or forgo asking her over my place until date 3 (playing it safe)

[WestIndianArchie]

Run proper game and stop depending on striking while the iron is hot.

If a chick is not interested in fucking you near the end of your "date" depending on your last minute resistance tactics is an exercise in futility.

Too much popular game depends on surprise style tactics.

WIA

[evilbuttmunch]

I tend to agree. Honestly, my 'game' has come from only a few conversational rapport tactics and basic physical scripts and the genuine confidence that comes from dating success, but I haven't had a lot of success in escalating to sex. I usually drop bait on date 1 that I'm provider material but picky about who I date. Women are usually DTF on date 3 so this isn't a big deal to me to potentially have to wait a bit longer. But I've found that if I don't escalate by 3 or I'm not BF material, then I'm out. Are you suggesting that she'll be comfortable coming over my place if the date goes well and any remaining LMR will only kick in once she's at my place and I'm escalating?

The last woman I went out with seemed into it on date 2 but we were both something like 40 minutes from either of our places and it was already closing in on 1 AM. I saw her one more time but she had lost interest by that date and she broke it off shortly after. I don't want a repeat of that night.

[WestIndianArchie]

(11-05-2015 05:14 PM)evilbuttmunch Wrote:  

but I haven't had a lot of success in escalating to sex.

I usually drop bait on date 1 that I'm provider material but picky about who I date.

There aren't too many hard and fast rules to this "game" thing, but choosy provider frame isn't always a panty dropper. (more like rarely)

If anything, traditionally this puts the girl in courtship mode. "Better not act like a slut, because I don't want to fuck this up."

(11-05-2015 05:14 PM)evilbuttmunch Wrote:  

Are you suggesting that she'll be comfortable coming over my place if the date goes well and any remaining LMR will only kick in once she's at my place and I'm escalating?

I am suggesting that proper game is trying to get her sexual on DATE #1.
If there are subsequent dates, only more so.
If she's not putting out by date #3, Hasta La Vista Baby.

That being said, I know there are a ton of newbs that read this.

By get sexual, I mean don't be a horn dog, but do be sexual.
This is voice, this is tone, this is gently guiding her, giving her tasks to do, but also having fun with her. Challenging her, and taking her challenges down.

All the better if you're in shape, well groomed, well dressed, and are flashing a bit of cash for the date. If I was gonna do the provider vibe, I'd have a money clip, pay with cash, and put the money clip back in the pocket.

Show, not tell. I'd prefer her to wonder what kind of work I do to have a couple of hunskies on me.
......................

So I don't know what kind of date you're doing, but if it's the typical dinner and drinks, here's the typical play by play

- Meet Up with Girl
- Exchange greetings
- Move to next little mini-location - could be from the train station to the venue, or from her/your house to the venue, or if you met at the venue - from the front of the venue to wherever you'll be seated

While you're still getting acquainted, get her living situation and work situation
- Lives by herself
- Nobody is at home waiting for her
- She didn't drive, or she took a cab, or her car is at the venue
- She came with friends, didn't come with friends

You're going to need this for later.

This is the formal get to know you, make sure that both of you aren't obvious losers who made great impressions (in person or online)

From there, the player, or at least someone with my style of game - has a plan.

Chick is gonna be lame and talk about her job, life, friends, and family...possibly some kind of long term goals.

If the dude is lame, he'll respond in kind.

A guy with a SMIDGEN of game will then riff off of whatever she says. He might not take it to the level that he needs to (there's a great Anonymous Bosch post on the topic), but he's generating additional conversation that's interesting TO HER.

Oh you're a grade school teacher, I bet you love it some days, and hate it some other days.

*she fills in*

From there he can start talking about the parents, get her to bitch a little bit....but he can also talk about the students, and when little Jayceon has a crush on Tanisha.

While he's making her laugh and changing the tenor of the conversation, the player is also saying
- I got this great thing back at the crib that's related to the conversation
1) Box of wine
2) Homemade ice cream
3) New puppy
4) Cool coffee shop (that just happens to be next to my place)

Whatever, something cool that you mention on the low and maybe bring the conversation back to at a second time.

So now, the player is bringing the topic to love, romance, relationships, with the idea of sex being in the background.

The player doesn't waste time with his 2-3 hours of entertaining.

I don't see that you have a game plan in mind from what you've written above.

So recap
- Meet, formal period
- He gets her basic stuff
- He gets her logistics (oh you live alone, oh you have roommates, oh you work an important job, oh you're a student with classes @ 11 am)
- Beginning conversation, and transition to good and juicy topics
- Seed a cool after the date activity into the conversation.

By the mid point of the date, after she's talking and is open
- The player forces some vulnerability out of her (if that's his thing)
- He asks her to do something, he asks a penetrating question,
- They take shots or have a drink a glass of wine (or smoke a j, smoke hookah, or dance - something to drop the inhibitions)
- He flirts
- And he's finding a way to break the touch barrier. (palm reading or hand measuring, thumb wrestling..whatever)

In the later stage of the date
- Her inhibitions have dropped
- She's having a good time
- Time is flying

To see if she's amenable to some late night cock
1) Is she flirting back at me
2) Does she recoil from my touch, or does she welcome it
3) Is she touching me of her own accord

If these things are happening,

SHE'S SEXUALLY ATTRACTED.

Now to confirm, personally I like to plant one on a chick (a kiss that is) before we head back to the car to see where her head is at.

A chick can play the game full well, and totally freak out if you try to kiss her. To minimize the drama, a bit of privacy is ideal for both of you.

If she's ducking and dodging, after being all touchy feely before - chances are the bitch is a headcase, and you should either cut your loss, or keep that in the back of your mind.

If she kisses you back, then you have a good indication of where you are.

In terms of getting her back,

A chick that likes talking to me and touching me NOW, isn't going to stop feeling those good feelings when she sobers up a little.

I know her logistics, so I can plan my sex location accordingly.

That little thing I mentioned at the beginning and middle part of the conversation - let's check that out now.

So to recap a second time
- Meet and greet
- Logistics
- Seed the bounce
- Go from a formal conversation to an informal one
- Charge up the conversation with flirting and touching
- Check to see if she's talking to you, liking your touches, touching you back
- Find a bit of privacy and kiss her
- Mention the seed
- Bounce on home and keep the vibe going until you get home

Now if she asks what you're doing here, which should be "token" resistance

"We're just gonna make out, and then I'll call an Uber for you"

Give her some plausible deniability.

One thing lead to another, I really liked him, he really liked me, it felt good...and before you know it she's trending #1 on Chaturbate.

Any questions?

WIA

[evilbuttmunch]

Based on reading what you suggested and how the date actually went, I am not as hopeless as I thought.

On date 1, we had coffee and actually sat side by side. By the end of the date, we were sitting together like a couple would, our legs were touching and she'd get my attention by touching my knee... so I'm not bad at this physical escalation thing.

We ended up meeting up at the wine bar between us. She was late and we couldn't get seated until fifteen minutes after she arrived, so we had our introduction in the bar area, where we made small talk about work and I escalated again with some light touching, and then we moved to a table.

My brother and his girlfriend have this habit of always kissing in the car at red lights. I associate it with a story about a time my brother and his gf were in a fight and how they made up in the car, and another about a more reserved couple that was having none of it. As a conversation topic, it always seems to be a good hit, gets a lot of laughs, smiles, and flirty looks. I took her hand on no less than 3 occasions throughout the night (one was a game about playing guitar chords) and she gladly offered her hand up to mine.

And yes, I got logistics. I know her weekly schedule, who she lives with, area she lives. The only thing is that I never seeded the idea of her coming back to my place, but I did have a plan to do so. I am a pretty good artist so all of my sketches are obviously at my place. I have a couple on my phone to show. Around 10 o'clock she said something that made it sound like she wasn't amenable to staying out really late. So instead I decided to just stick around with her. I paid, and she made zero suggestion of the idea of her paying. I don't mind this because it helps me know where I stand. If I think the date is going well and she tries to pay, then I begin to second guess myself, and I'm usually right about that intuition.

Tiny things can screw you up, however, but I recovered as best as I could. I was planning on walking her to her car so we'd have more privacy away from the front of the restaurant before initiating a kiss, but I parked too close, and she suddenly turned grabbing me in a hug when we were near my car. Her body language got very nervous, and she looked like she was putting her head up for a kiss but she is significantly shorter than me and didn't give me enough time to react before she turned her head away. In response, I laughed, she pushed away from me and exclaimed "What!?" and I said "You look like you wanted to give me a kiss," I lifted her chin and pointed her face at mine and kissed her. It wasn't what I was hoping for but at least I remained calm and recovered. Old me would have done nothing and left sullen.

I have an interesting job in tech that I like to talk about, and I use it to gauge the woman's intelligence for LTR material, so I don't go the flash my cash route. If she read my online profile she'd already know I make more than 100k a year. And yes, I know that choosy provider isn't a panty dropper but I really couldn't respect a woman who would screw on the first date, so I don't mind a slightly longer game. Plus I read on a game site (I forget which one) that they found that 6-8 hours is the minimum amount of time a non-slutty woman needs to spend with you before deciding to sleep with you without any real LMR (I'm only at 5 hours). I've read that you can shorten it with deliberate use of venue changes to make her feel like she's spent more time with you, but 2-3 dates seems like the sweet spot and it's what I'm comfortable with. Sure it limits me but I honestly feel weird flirting sexually with women I have no intention of making long term (but I have no problem dating multiple women at the same time). I am hoping to have her over for dinner and close mid-week.

[ohionukes]

Solid advice.

(11-05-2015 11:00 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(11-05-2015 05:14 PM)evilbuttmunch Wrote:  

but I haven't had a lot of success in escalating to sex.

I usually drop bait on date 1 that I'm provider material but picky about who I date.

There aren't too many hard and fast rules to this "game" thing, but choosy provider frame isn't always a panty dropper. (more like rarely)

If anything, traditionally this puts the girl in courtship mode. "Better not act like a slut, because I don't want to fuck this up."

(11-05-2015 05:14 PM)evilbuttmunch Wrote:  

Are you suggesting that she'll be comfortable coming over my place if the date goes well and any remaining LMR will only kick in once she's at my place and I'm escalating?

I am suggesting that proper game is trying to get her sexual on DATE #1.
If there are subsequent dates, only more so.
If she's not putting out by date #3, Hasta La Vista Baby.

That being said, I know there are a ton of newbs that read this.

By get sexual, I mean don't be a horn dog, but do be sexual.
This is voice, this is tone, this is gently guiding her, giving her tasks to do, but also having fun with her. Challenging her, and taking her challenges down.

All the better if you're in shape, well groomed, well dressed, and are flashing a bit of cash for the date. If I was gonna do the provider vibe, I'd have a money clip, pay with cash, and put the money clip back in the pocket.

Show, not tell. I'd prefer her to wonder what kind of work I do to have a couple of hunskies on me.
......................

So I don't know what kind of date you're doing, but if it's the typical dinner and drinks, here's the typical play by play

- Meet Up with Girl
- Exchange greetings
- Move to next little mini-location - could be from the train station to the venue, or from her/your house to the venue, or if you met at the venue - from the front of the venue to wherever you'll be seated

While you're still getting acquainted, get her living situation and work situation
- Lives by herself
- Nobody is at home waiting for her
- She didn't drive, or she took a cab, or her car is at the venue
- She came with friends, didn't come with friends

You're going to need this for later.

This is the formal get to know you, make sure that both of you aren't obvious losers who made great impressions (in person or online)

From there, the player, or at least someone with my style of game - has a plan.

Chick is gonna be lame and talk about her job, life, friends, and family...possibly some kind of long term goals.

If the dude is lame, he'll respond in kind.

A guy with a SMIDGEN of game will then riff off of whatever she says. He might not take it to the level that he needs to (there's a great Anonymous Bosch post on the topic), but he's generating additional conversation that's interesting TO HER.

Oh you're a grade school teacher, I bet you love it some days, and hate it some other days.

*she fills in*

From there he can start talking about the parents, get her to bitch a little bit....but he can also talk about the students, and when little Jayceon has a crush on Tanisha.

While he's making her laugh and changing the tenor of the conversation, the player is also saying
- I got this great thing back at the crib that's related to the conversation
1) Box of wine
2) Homemade ice cream
3) New puppy
4) Cool coffee shop (that just happens to be next to my place)

Whatever, something cool that you mention on the low and maybe bring the conversation back to at a second time.

So now, the player is bringing the topic to love, romance, relationships, with the idea of sex being in the background.

The player doesn't waste time with his 2-3 hours of entertaining.

I don't see that you have a game plan in mind from what you've written above.

So recap
- Meet, formal period
- He gets her basic stuff
- He gets her logistics (oh you live alone, oh you have roommates, oh you work an important job, oh you're a student with classes @ 11 am)
- Beginning conversation, and transition to good and juicy topics
- Seed a cool after the date activity into the conversation.

By the mid point of the date, after she's talking and is open
- The player forces some vulnerability out of her (if that's his thing)
- He asks her to do something, he asks a penetrating question,
- They take shots or have a drink a glass of wine (or smoke a j, smoke hookah, or dance - something to drop the inhibitions)
- He flirts
- And he's finding a way to break the touch barrier. (palm reading or hand measuring, thumb wrestling..whatever)

In the later stage of the date
- Her inhibitions have dropped
- She's having a good time
- Time is flying

To see if she's amenable to some late night cock
1) Is she flirting back at me
2) Does she recoil from my touch, or does she welcome it
3) Is she touching me of her own accord

If these things are happening,

SHE'S SEXUALLY ATTRACTED.

Now to confirm, personally I like to plant one on a chick (a kiss that is) before we head back to the car to see where her head is at.

A chick can play the game full well, and totally freak out if you try to kiss her. To minimize the drama, a bit of privacy is ideal for both of you.

If she's ducking and dodging, after being all touchy feely before - chances are the bitch is a headcase, and you should either cut your loss, or keep that in the back of your mind.

If she kisses you back, then you have a good indication of where you are.

In terms of getting her back,

A chick that likes talking to me and touching me NOW, isn't going to stop feeling those good feelings when she sobers up a little.

I know her logistics, so I can plan my sex location accordingly.

That little thing I mentioned at the beginning and middle part of the conversation - let's check that out now.

So to recap a second time
- Meet and greet
- Logistics
- Seed the bounce
- Go from a formal conversation to an informal one
- Charge up the conversation with flirting and touching
- Check to see if she's talking to you, liking your touches, touching you back
- Find a bit of privacy and kiss her
- Mention the seed
- Bounce on home and keep the vibe going until you get home

Now if she asks what you're doing here, which should be "token" resistance

"We're just gonna make out, and then I'll call an Uber for you"

Give her some plausible deniability.

One thing lead to another, I really liked him, he really liked me, it felt good...and before you know it she's trending #1 on Chaturbate.

Any questions?

WIA