[Virtus]

[Travesty]

(08-28-2015 03:07 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

A female has to be more interested in you than you are in her.

Not just like you more it has to be 80/20 her vs you to work out well.

When you are starting with her at maybe a 5/80 when she decided to first text him back he had a long fucking way to climb to get her to that 80. He was already at 90 himself.

The guys that do the nice romantic stuff do it in a way that still subconciously reads to the chick "yeah I am doing this nice shit you, look how smooth I am though you know I am doing this with other hot chicks, you better bring it if you want more".

On the surface it looks like the player is more into it letting her play catch up seeing what a great guy he is, in reality the player's emotional investment is at about a 2/100 and chicks can read from their confidence and smoothness it is no fucking thing if it doesn't work out.

[Alpone]

Quote:

I sent her a long winded text, basically trying to be humorous, joking about her being my Facebook friend and how I need more since I only have a total of like 8 friends on there, then I joked about how awesome my profile is (it's literally empty aside from a couple pics), and told her my friend's girlfriend started it to make me a tinder because she thought it would be fun.

Yea, use Roosh's txt guides next time. or ask us what you should txt. the shorter the better. You started off good with the initial interaction but second guessed yourself at the bar and with the follow up txts. If you run into her again I would go ballsy hard direct and ask her out (maybe for an insta-date). Better to go down on your feet than on your knees.

I understand about not wanting to be robotic and be more natural than the competition. There's a time for that - but it's not before the first date.

[Travesty]

^ Honestly in a situation like this I don't think his best bet was to get right down to texting to get her out.

Why is because:

- She hesitated to give me him the number.
- She waited until later the next day to text back.
- He is going after an 8-9 in a town where 6's think they are 8s. This isn't a horny 29yo 6 slut off Tinder. This girl needed a bit more selling.

He was playing from behind.

After my experience of doing the least text for a date vs. being a little bit aloof and keeping the text game going to kill flaking I would have taken a day or so to text her back and keep some light fun text conversation going while staying more aloof than her until she seemed a bit more hooked and give her a phone call to set up the date.

I am strong believer after the rebirth of my text game.

Text game straight to logistics is for guys with little text game so they don't fuck up.

After reading BlurredSevens, soup, Gmanifesto etc... and having done it myself in the past and now again it is to play some fun aloof text game for a bit to let the girls know you are a busy guy, then get her on the phone as compliance when she is hooked.

Girls aren't used to guys with fun aloof text game that make a solid phone call.

Now, if she gave out the number eagerly and suggested meeting up soon or was giving off very strong signals I would have texted her very soon after to meet up if the iron seemed hot. It clearly did not seem hot in this case.

At the bar it was tricky. Since he was playing from behind he really had to have his confidence very high to swoop in and AMOG those dudes to swipe her.

The more conservative strategy would be to have some fun, hit on some other good looking girls pretend he didn't see her - try to get her to notice him and make eye contact at least then go in. Maybe even call it an early night. This is a small town remember. He sees her around often. I think she may have noticed him at some point and waiting "his turn" til the end of the night was no bueno.

[DVY]

Yea the energy is off. You aren't being you. If you want to talk to her, talk to her. Don't look like you are strategizing.

People respond to boldness.

Don't pussyfoot around.

At the same time, don't be needy.

I understand hot girls make people lose themselves, but this is a game and there are certain guidelines to be followed. Certain progression of a relationship that hits the girl's POV in a positive way. Draws her in emotionally and later physically.

It is a fluid beast not a static 1-2-3 rules system.

[Nascimento]

There's no need to ever compliment a woman on her looks pre-bang.

If you're going to compliment her on her looks, do it after you've banged, and never before. Doing it before will never help you and might only hurt you.

You're not the other guys, so don't do it. Leave that for the chumps.

[DonnyGately]

I don't agree with that statement. It is a trap for the unwary beta, but telling a woman during daygame you find her attractive and putting yourself out there shows that you *are* an alpha. You possess tight Inner Game. Sometimes you get the sparkly eyes right there on the spot. If she's not into you then move onto your next target, in a big city there'll be 10 more in the next 5 minutes.

I wouldn't do that in a nightclub/bar though unless I had escorted her away from the group and she showed interest. Maybe then you drop it as part of your comfort-building routine. Otherwise you kinda have to do the aloof Alpha.

As always, the main trick is congruence. I don't think OP had that and she sniffed it out immediately.

[casio]

(08-30-2015 02:57 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

There's no need to ever compliment a woman on her looks pre-bang.

A girl I know is the singer of a local band, and ofcourse everyone thinks she sings AMAZING. She's actually average, has no real confidence on stage but I admit she's quite good looking though.

When she came to ask me if I liked the concert (i work in the industry) I told her I wasn't impressed, that's she's ok but nothing that really stands out and she has a lot to work on.

I wasn't trying to neg, i just gave my honest opinion, I didn't even think about game because my GF was waiting for me at home... But she kept talking to me all night long, which she probably wouldn't if I told her it was AMAZING just like the others do.

I don't always see it as needing to neg etc, but just going against the flow and reacting different than other people can be enough to surprise people and make them interested.

[General Stalin]

(08-31-2015 07:03 AM)casio Wrote:  

(08-30-2015 02:57 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

There's no need to ever compliment a woman on her looks pre-bang.

A girl I know is the singer of a local band, and ofcourse everyone thinks she sings AMAZING. She's actually average, has no real confidence on stage but I admit she's quite good looking though.

When she came to ask me if I liked the concert (i work in the industry) I told her I wasn't impressed, that's she's ok but nothing that really stands out and she has a lot to work on.

I wasn't trying to neg, i just gave my honest opinion, I didn't even think about game because my GF was waiting for me at home... But she kept talking to me all night long, which she probably wouldn't if I told her it was AMAZING just like the others do.

I don't always see it as needing to neg etc, but just going against the flow and reacting different than other people can be enough to surprise people and make them interested.

That is a perfect neg. She was likely fishing for compliments and you didn't feed into it - instead you gave her exactly what a neg i supposed to accomplish - you established that you are unimpressed and "above it." Because you were unimpressed she sees you as challenging.

It establishes a certain level of dominance. It's frustrating when someone doesn't praise you for what you think you should be praised for, and people of weak and supplicant minds will work harder to try and elicit that praise. Women thrive off of that drama and anxiety - and they are hypergamous so naturally are attractive to a man who is "above" them and their bullshit.

(08-28-2015 03:30 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Part of the reason why I went "off script", knowing that I was violating vital game tenets is because I'm kind of getting tired of being so robotic and calculating about how I "run game." On the flip side of that there are tenets to game that amount to good game for a reason, because they are time tested formulas that have proven to work, whereas showing over eagerness, "neediness", or caring too much have also proven not to work.

That said part of me wants to just return to the old days when guys were just true to themselves and put themselves out on a limb, told a woman she's attractive, showed that they care, at the risk of seeming vulnerable, and not like the "aloof alpha" archetype that women are attracted to nowadays.

Before you guys jump to attack me I'm not trying to defend any missteps or mistakes I've made, or make excuses for having bad game, it's just that I find that "gaming women" in this current age is like running down a check list of moves. Waiting 2-3 days to text, waiting 30 minutes to reply to her text, acting like you don't care, etc. A lot of it also can feel incongruent to how I am actually feeling. This girl was inspiring my inner romantic beta who wanted to idealize her, maybe it wasn't correct to allow that part of me out while trying to run the proper game, but that's the part of me that wanted to come out, because that's the authentic feeling was at the time.

Not sure if I'm really making any sense or just talking in circles here, I guess a lot of what I'm feeling runs afoul of modern game dogma. It's kind of like the feeling I think Roosh tries to articulate about how the modern woman wants a "clown or a bad boy" not a genuine nice guy, and therefore a lot of "nice guys" have to put on a facade to be or act like someone they are not.

The sexual marketplace dictates the proper game, you can't really argue with what works. If I guy wants to go full 1950's beta with his game, he can expect a lot of disappointment and loneliness.

Anyway I guess this devolved into a bit of a rant, but to address some of the guys on here, yes I should have just asked her out, but considering she was ignoring my texts I figured she wasn't really that interested or giving me a lot to work with. She's officially a cold prospect, but I know I will cross her path sooner or later and who knows how either of us will be feeling at that point, I don't think it's a stretch to think I can possibly rekindle things again.

I agree with others that his is certainly an inner-game struggle. I can relate completely as I went through the exact same thing about a month go.

Remember what I said about the burden of being a man. You have to exercise emotional restraint. You need to let women be the needy, eager, emotional ones. They have to be the ones that are infatuated; the ones that worry whether or not you are impressed by them or like them enough to stick around. You have to be the stoic one - the rock. Unimpressed and self-driven. It may be hard to swallow, but thats what the Red Pill is: hard to swallow.

I'll put it to you this way - and this is what helps me cope with wishing I could just be "my old self" with women - think about how infatuation and oneitis makes you feel.

Really think about it.

There was a discussion about this in another thread just a couple weeks ago on here. Really liking a chick and being infatuated by her is utterly crippling for a man. Our emotions do not operate well under those circumstances, as you can very well relate to. The anxiety that comes from being heavily emotionally invested in a girl is debilitating. Worrying if she likes you the same way, wondering when she is going to text you back or why she isn't keen on making plans with you etc. Women eat this shit up and it keeps them interested in a man - that uncertainty puts them through the roof and makes them more attracted and more eager to impress and keep the man around. This is good for women. It is good for the relationship. Men need stability, faithfulness, loyalty, sex, etc. That is what keeps us truly happy and interested.

You need to recognize that when you get those feelings of over-the-top infatuation for a girl it most likely will not go well for you. The reason you are feeling that way is almost certainly because she does not feel the same way about you. You are te one chasing. Someone always likes someone else more, and as a man you have to be the one to take the responsibility and the burden of compromising on your feelings of attachment.

The road of "puppy love" and infatuation is a full of drastic emotional ups and
down that you do not want to feel. Think about what you just went through with this girl because you let yourself get more invested than she was - do you want to feel that way? Do you want to be dwelling on how long it take sher to text you back? Wouldn't it be so much more relieving if you honestly didn't give a shit? Exactly.

Relevant (Especially at 4:00 onwards):

[Mister X]

These kinds of things happen. You can only operate like a robot for so long. After a certain point, you need to be who you really are, and do what you really feel. OP had that rare feeling you get when you meet your supposed "dream girl." Of course the girl never turns out to be who you think she is, but it's that fantasy of finding one who is that keeps you going. I'm still feeling the effects of a girl I haven't seen in about a year now. There are times where her hold on me lessens my attraction to other women because "they're not like her." And it's a girl I didn't even hook up with, but the way she made me feel was real. It's a mindfuck, but it happens. To be honest I wouldn't trade that feeling either. I want to feel alive when dealing with women. It shouldn't be spitting game on cruise control to a girl you're lukewarm about at best, get the bang, hook up a few times, and move on to the next one. I want someone who makes all this shit worth it.

[DVY]

- Dont be needy (respect for her autonomy)

- Personal Boundaires (respect for yourself)

- Joie di Vivre (sp? french for love of life aka positive mindset)

Yes there are no "true" rules and it is a feel based thing when you are out and about BUT there are definite big no-nos. Break either one of those 3 aforementioned items and its "strike out".

People are animals and they feel vibes. All this talk about auras and energies is just our subconscious processing the gestalt into concrete. Just like when a player senses a girl likes him.

I go out every night trying to do those 3 aforementioned items. Every person is ultimately responsible for their own happiness.

Art of Zen meets Art of War meets Art of Love.

Each level in life has its own "traps" but they all really stem from the #1-3.

Fake it till you make it is a good motto if you are completely lost, but it grows stale and really limits your upperward progression.

[Nascimento]

(08-30-2015 02:57 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

There's no need to ever compliment a woman on her looks pre-bang.

If you're going to compliment her on her looks, do it after you've banged, and never before. Doing it before will never help you and might only hurt you.

You're not the other guys, so don't do it. Leave that for the chumps.

I want to add to this post I made recently.

A few days ago, I complimented a girl I've been seeing on her appearance for the first time.

During pillow talk after a 20 minute session that had both of us spent. She's a cute girl who has had it easy all her life. I'm sure she's had no shortage of men compliment her on her appearance.

She showed me her account on online dating a few weeks ago, she mentioned that she was going to close it, although she probably won't because as we all know girls love the attention. She had 52 unread messages.

We've been seeing each other for many weeks, and her emotional investment in me has grown substantially. I've become more fond of her as well.

What was my compliment to her? I called her 'beautiful'. Call me a beta if you want for a cliche line.

Her eyes lit up. She was speechless for a few seconds, before she responded with, "...really?" in a moment of obvious insecurity. "You've never said that to me before."

I'm still learning my way with these things, but I can tell you I'm aware of how much progress I have made. Compliments can be powerful--as long as you know how to use them. Be scarce with them and opportunistic. I didn't feel compelled to say what I did... It just happened naturally in the moment.

Contrast that to the first date I went on 3 years or so ago. I felt compelled to tell her she looked nice right after greeting her. Must have been something I read on askmen at the time.

Maybe needless to say; I wasn't banging that girl, nor did I ever bang her.

[Travesty]

(09-04-2015 12:25 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

She showed me her account on online dating a few weeks ago, she mentioned that she was going to close it, although she probably won't because as we all know girls love the attention. She had 52 unread messages.

We've been seeing each other for many weeks, and her emotional investment in me has grown substantially. I've become more fond of her as well.

Getting ready to stick your hand in that fire huh? Sounds like you are losing hand quick.

[Nascimento]

I disagree. There's much more to it than I'm willing to disclose.

And for a few reasons, she's not a girl I'd consider getting serious with anyways.

However, what's wrong with becoming fond of a girl?

A lot of guys are exclusively about pump and dumps. That's not me. Not saying that's you, but you're making some insinuations here.

[OGNorCal707]

(09-04-2015 01:06 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

I disagree. There's much more to it than I'm willing to disclose.

And for a few reasons, she's not a girl I'd consider getting serious with anyways.

However, what's wrong with becoming fond of a girl?

A lot of guys are exclusively about pump and dumps. That's not me. Not saying that's you, but you're making some insinuations here.

Guys are scared to expose themselves and be vulnerable by allowing themselves to develop deep feelings for a girl, because they've been hurt in the past when the woman turned on them.

I think this is a common thing with a lot of guys in the game, so as a result they develop a more cold and callous emotional wall and demeanor with women. Honestly being more cold and calculating can lead to more success as a player, but I feel like you are also sacrificing a lot of the positive emotions that you can experience when connecting with a chick you really like.

On the flip side of that coin the higher you feel the harder you fall, if and when the relationship falls apart. This is especially painful if it's a girl you feel deeply for and she does something to betray you or your trust.

I think you need a little yin and yang, can't be all darkness or all light, when you're too positive and lovey dovey you're not always thinking logically and are putting yourself in a vulnerable position, but if you're all darkness then you're cold and closed off, you're not operating out of a positive place, everything is a battle and chess match, living like that can be a downer.

[kaotic]

It's a balance, I'm not cold and calloused but I'm sure as hell not some lovey dovey pussy whipped bitch.

I'm more of the sarcastic asshole that you love and makes you laugh all the time.

[AnonymousBosch]

My initial thought reading your first post in this thread:

(09-04-2015 04:31 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Guys are scared to expose themselves and be vulnerable by allowing themselves to develop deep feelings for a girl, because they've been hurt in the past when the woman turned on them.

I think this is a common thing with a lot of guys in the game, so as a result they develop a more cold and callous emotional wall and demeanor with women. Honestly being more cold and calculating can lead to more success as a player, but I feel like you are also sacrificing a lot of the positive emotions that you can experience when connecting with a chick you really like.

You're mourning the fact that you can never just 'be yourself' with women whilst remaining sexually-attractive and emotionally-exciting to them. Rebel against this all you want and try to fiercely resist the passing of your emotional innocence - Rage, rage against the dying of the light - but, like your eventual death, this is one of those harsh realities you just have to accept.

You're misreading the emotional wall as meaning you get no enjoyment from women and the relationship isn't positive. Women with low emotional resilience and no real life hardships thrive on emotional instability: if you offer her absolute certainty in your feelings about her, or mirror her emotional instability, she will simply grow bored and seek it elsewhere.

It's not 'cold and callous': it's being experienced with women enough to maintain complete emotional control whilst having a healthy scepticism for their predictable attempts at emotional manipulation designed to force you to qualify the relationship as she desires.

Think about this George Clooney on a runway with a model he seems disinterested in trailing on his arm versus Tom Cruise jumping around on a couch screaming about how much he loved his girlfriend. Which man greatly-damaged his sex appeal with women?

Frustrating a woman's desires keeps her emotionally-uncertain as to your feelings about her, which, whilst seeming like misery to us, seems to be the emotional state that generates optimum happiness in women, particularly as they can use it to focus attention on themselves within their social circle.

They desire this to the extent that I've seen again and again woman who are married to very kind, caring men, trying desperately to convince themselves that somehow these men don't really care about them, to ridiculous and petty degrees:

"He never puts the toilet seat down!"

"He never empties the lint filter in the dryer!"

"Why is he happy for me to always wear jeans? Why doesn't he want me to dress prettier?"

"The roller door on my side of the garage is harder to pull up than the one on his side. Why does he make me use it?"

In each of these cases, I know the men adore them and would instantly do as was asked to prove their love. But the women don't ask: again and again I hear "He should just know!" In other words, they want to passive-aggressively seethe over imagined slights to add the emotional uncertainty they really crave to their otherwise-healthy, caring relationships.

If this is the state they naturally gravitate to, it's not callous or cold to give them what they most desire. It can be as simple as keeping your arm along the back of the couch instead of putting it around your girlfriend whilst you're watching a movie.

If you want to express your unfettered emotional side, channel it into art, not a relationship.

[el mechanico]

OG I understand your point in your last post. I read it three times but the point is you have to go in hard at the jump or stuff fizzles.

But, it also could've worked out perfect so you never know.

Northern coastal Cal is a sausage belt full of all types of creatures reinventing themselves on a continuous basis for Tang even though they'll never admit it.

It's not a good place for ltr fo sho.

[Nascimento]

(09-04-2015 04:31 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Guys are scared to expose themselves and be vulnerable by allowing themselves to develop deep feelings for a girl, because they've been hurt in the past when the woman turned on them.

I think this is a common thing with a lot of guys in the game, so as a result they develop a more cold and callous emotional wall and demeanor with women. Honestly being more cold and calculating can lead to more success as a player, but I feel like you are also sacrificing a lot of the positive emotions that you can experience when connecting with a chick you really like.

On the flip side of that coin the higher you feel the harder you fall, if and when the relationship falls apart. This is especially painful if it's a girl you feel deeply for and she does something to betray you or your trust.

I think you need a little yin and yang, can't be all darkness or all light, when you're too positive and lovey dovey you're not always thinking logically and are putting yourself in a vulnerable position, but if you're all darkness then you're cold and closed off, you're not operating out of a positive place, everything is a battle and chess match, living like that can be a downer.

My thoughts exactly.

Not saying anyone here is guilty of this, but I've come across it elsewhere on the forum: guys who shame emotional engagement with girls and avoid it because it's 'beta'. Those guys suggest game is about emotional indifference and notches. Anything otherwise and you're a chump.

Nah.

Moreover, as long as you understand that relationships end and are not everlasting, and that you will always have to have options and exercise them, there's no harm in my opinion in allowing yourself to bond with a girl. Just as you said, in my experience it's the best way to experience some of the best highs the game can offer. You just have to accept you'll have to hurdle through some lows.

Being a man isn't to be indifferent in these situations; it's to engage them as they come and to have the ability to move on from them when they naturally conclude.

[el mechanico]

^ Yes Nac but the basics have to be there.

[ksbms]

(08-30-2015 12:07 AM)Travesty Wrote:  

Here's a brief outline I see of guys' mentality of how they deal with hotter chicks as they progress with game:

1) Oh God I hope she likes me!

2) How can I make her like me?

3) What can I do to have sex with this girl?

4) How can I fuck this chick as quick as possible?

5) What is there to like about this chick besides being able to fuck her?

6) Damn I hope there is at least something to like about this piece of ass! My time's important!

7) You know what I go for the ass I want that clicks with me and I love each and every one I tap!

OG was stuck on level 1 in this saga.

The guys in the last post I mentioned operate on level 7.

8) I'd rather cook myself a dinner and get good sleep than bother with chicks.

[DVY]

Wow Bosch and El Mech dropping nuggets here.

To be fair, Bosch is mostly talking about American chicks. Foreign girls have less of this in them. I don't really know why that is- maybe lack of support structure in a foreign country.

I don't take as cynical view of relationships but then again I am never in one for too long. W somebody who has decent look, coin and dresses sharp it truly is a passive investment. I do nothing to receive that dread game. In fact, all these girls likely feel insecure that they can't hold me down.

^I really don't know what to think of Bosch's statement because I so rarely experience it myself. I do witness it w/others tho.

Aggression is key w new girls. She should be chasee and you should be chaser (at least to some degree). The sexual polarity creates a healthy relationship. Girls are so wishy-washy (foreigners) that if you don't get a jump on quick somebody else will come along.

[Sonoma]

You can easily recover.

If she "kinda" has a dude on the side, you know every girl is looking for back up options.

And assuming you still live up north, you need to fucking move to for some better ass. The amount of BO on those chicks is unreal, I just did a road trip up 1 to Portland and it was nothing but ugly

[Goldfinger]

(09-04-2015 06:42 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

My initial thought reading your first post in this thread:

(09-04-2015 04:31 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Guys are scared to expose themselves and be vulnerable by allowing themselves to develop deep feelings for a girl, because they've been hurt in the past when the woman turned on them.

I think this is a common thing with a lot of guys in the game, so as a result they develop a more cold and callous emotional wall and demeanor with women. Honestly being more cold and calculating can lead to more success as a player, but I feel like you are also sacrificing a lot of the positive emotions that you can experience when connecting with a chick you really like.

You're mourning the fact that you can never just 'be yourself' with women whilst remaining sexually-attractive and emotionally-exciting to them. Rebel against this all you want and try to fiercely resist the passing of your emotional innocence - Rage, rage against the dying of the light - but, like your eventual death, this is one of those harsh realities you just have to accept.

You're misreading the emotional wall as meaning you get no enjoyment from women and the relationship isn't positive. Women with low emotional resilience and no real life hardships thrive on emotional instability: if you offer her absolute certainty in your feelings about her, or mirror her emotional instability, she will simply grow bored and seek it elsewhere.

It's not 'cold and callous': it's being experienced with women enough to maintain complete emotional control whilst having a healthy scepticism for their predictable attempts at emotional manipulation designed to force you to qualify the relationship as she desires.

Think about this George Clooney on a runway with a model he seems disinterested in trailing on his arm versus Tom Cruise jumping around on a couch screaming about how much he loved his girlfriend. Which man greatly-damaged his sex appeal with women?

Frustrating a woman's desires keeps her emotionally-uncertain as to your feelings about her, which, whilst seeming like misery to us, seems to be the emotional state that generates optimum happiness in women, particularly as they can use it to focus attention on themselves within their social circle.

They desire this to the extent that I've seen again and again woman who are married to very kind, caring men, trying desperately to convince themselves that somehow these men don't really care about them, to ridiculous and petty degrees:

"He never puts the toilet seat down!"

"He never empties the lint filter in the dryer!"

"Why is he happy for me to always wear jeans? Why doesn't he want me to dress prettier?"

"The roller door on my side of the garage is harder to pull up than the one on his side. Why does he make me use it?"

In each of these cases, I know the men adore them and would instantly do as was asked to prove their love. But the women don't ask: again and again I hear "He should just know!" In other words, they want to passive-aggressively seethe over imagined slights to add the emotional uncertainty they really crave to their otherwise-healthy, caring relationships.

If this is the state they naturally gravitate to, it's not callous or cold to give them what they most desire. It can be as simple as keeping your arm along the back of the couch instead of putting it around your girlfriend whilst you're watching a movie.

If you want to express your unfettered emotional side, channel it into art, not a relationship.