[x-it]

We discuss a lot about toxic femininity -- but rarely about toxic masculinity. Feminism has found their own very supportive environment - and even though they are toxic, they are in their own space and hence their toxic nature seems normal to them - and they desire no change.

However, masculinity has also become very toxic - especially in Toronto and the rest of Canada -- more so than other countries I think.

Just imagine growing up in a place like TO as a boy. Roosh paid a short visit - and look at the reaction he got. The petition is now up to 46,000 signatures. Men who grow up in this environment, are usually very toxic - meaning in a lot of deniable, scared, in pain, very insecure, emotional imbalanced and immature, - most have never had girl friends, alienated from family who keep thinking they are losers etc. Most men are caught up in the matrix and have not taken the red pill- hence they are think the environment they live in is natural and normal - and don't even question it. They do not realize just how distorted the gender dynamics is.

I was at this business talk this evening - and after the talk I saw this young muscular black guy. I simply complimented him on his physique and asked him how much can he brench press. As I also go regularly to the gym -- and use to bench press 260 lbs. The guy immediately thought I was gay.

It seems you can't have a normal friendly talk with women and men. Such a messed up place TO is.

[IvanDrago]

[Travesty]

I too have problems no homo complimenting swarthy strapping young lads!

[GlobalMan]

Your example seems kind of specific and I wouldn't connect it with wider issues.

Quote:

I was at this business talk this evening - and after the talk I saw this young muscular black guy. I simply complimented him on his physique

I think if you got into a conversation about fitness first, then asked what his routine is etc, you wouldn't get a strange reaction commenting on his physique. But if it was "hello fellow, how about that new software, your arms look amazing", that could be misinterpreted.

If you're in a gym, or in an extended conversation about fitness, I don't think a guy would misconstrue your intention.

[x-it]

(08-19-2015 09:16 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Your example seems kind of specific and I wouldn't connect it with wider issues.

Quote:

I was at this business talk this evening - and after the talk I saw this young muscular black guy. I simply complimented him on his physique

I think if you got into a conversation about fitness first, then asked what his routine is etc, you wouldn't get a strange reaction commenting on his physique. But if it was "hello fellow, how about that new software, your arms look amazing", that could be misinterpreted.

If you're in a gym, or in an extended conversation about fitness, I don't think a guy would misconstrue your intention.

I think you are probably right. When I visit latin America, though, guys and women are a lot more open -- and you can talk like that - and they enjoy it. A lot of western guys who visit LA are often quite awkward and stiff - until they get use to the culture.

[Cronus]

(08-19-2015 08:58 PM)x-it Wrote:  

I simply complimented him on his physique and asked him how much can he brench press. As I also go regularly to the gym -- and use to bench press 260 lbs. The guy immediately thought I was gay.

[Ivan_]

Oh jesus f°°°.

[Grodin]

You'd better have thick skin lol. Even seeing toxic masculinity in the title... I knew this thread wasn't going to go in the direction you hoped for.

Yes, people are more open in Latin America. In all respects. You're not in Latin America though and part of good social skills is adapting to the conventions of your social group.

[CactusCat589]

Why would you compliment another man on his physique? Obviously he's going to assume you're gay, maybe with a racial predilection too. I'm no gym rat, but I've clocked a couple hundred years and not once has any of hundreds of guys complimented anyone else, not once. At most a spotter says "Good job/nice effort" after talking someone through the last reps when they're struggling.

I'm pretty skeptical, I don't know if the two rep points really separate you from some of the recent banned guys. I hope I don't seem to be too hard on you, because you point out that friendly conversations can be hard to come by these days, which I agree with. The antisocial divide of smartphones and earbuds has long been noted on the forum.

Quote:

However, masculinity has also become very toxic - especially in Toronto and the rest of Canada -- more so than other countries I think.

Just imagine growing up in a place like TO as a boy. Roosh paid a short visit - and look at the reaction he got. The petition is now up to 46,000 signatures. Men who grow up in this environment, are usually very toxic - meaning in a lot of deniable, scared, in pain, very insecure, emotional imbalanced and immature, - most have never had girl friends, alienated from family who keep thinking they are losers etc. Most men are caught up in the matrix and have not taken the red pill- hence they are think the environment they live in is natural and normal - and don't even question it. They do not realize just how distorted the gender dynamics is.most have never had girl friends, alienated from family who keep thinking they are losers etc. Most men are caught up in the matrix and have not taken the red pill- hence they are think the environment they live in is natural and normal - and don't even question it. They do not realize just how distorted the gender dynamics is.

What. So you ascribe the effects of toxic femininity to toxic masculinity? Why is it a limp-wristed guy who's never had a girlfriend is someone who is 'toxically' masculine? The hostility Roosh ran into in his Canada campaign is proof that these cities are hotbeds of rampant and vile feminism and fascism.

[GlobalMan]

^ Agree that since its toxic feminism turning guys in to social retards, I wouldn't call it "toxic masculinity". If there was a strong masculine culture there wouldn't be much toxicity at all, especially among men.

OP has a valid point about the shittyness of the social interactions these days, its just the example he chose and the terminology he chose are off.

[x-it]

Recently I was in Santiago de Cuba, and I was downtown with a friend and we were being led around by a Cuban looking for some items. And it was the same kind of situation -- Cubans are a lot more friendly and overly social. I also saw this black young Cuban who was obviously a body builder -- and not knowing him, I just slapped him in the back and laughed-- and pretty well told him the same -- how much do you bench lift -- he also laughed and and we talked a bit.

It was friendly and normal -- as I also went through but still am in a body building phase. I find the subject interesting but not over interesting. But TO social climate is a very tense and suspicious.

But I do see being in a business setting, that perhaps it was not the first thing to have been said. Still though, you do get social retardation when people over react.

[x-it]

..

[RedPillUK]

It sounds like you're either from a different culture or you're a unsocialised nerd.

Pretty much anywhere in the anglosphere its weird to compliment men you don't know on their physique. You can expect a lot of funny looks and accusations of being gay for that.

There's no such thing as 'toxic masculinity', but if you think there is why not ask the lovely typists at jezebel.com?

[Phoenix]

I think the effect OP is trying to refer to is the "making a point you aren't gay" in the West.
In Saudi Arabia, dudes can walk hand-in-hand and no-one suspects they're gay. Why? Actual gays get crucified or something.
In Canada, dudes make extra clear they're straight, so there is no possible ambiguity. Why? Because homo freaks are roaming freely and flamboyantly.

[fokker]

Is this a thread?

[Phoenix]

(08-20-2015 06:36 AM)fokker Wrote:  

Is this a [troll] thread?

I don't think so, I think he's just confused about the cultural aspect he's trying to describe.
I'll sometimes ask ripped dudes questions about their physique too, since any hints I can get might help me. The motivation for these questions is as far from gay as it gets (I want to get ripped so chicks get wet at the sight of my body), but you still have to be very careful with the wording and context of these questions to avoid them making gay assumptions.

[The Beast1]

You have to preface your compliment with a beginning subject.

"I hit the gym daily!
"Oh cool so do i."

"You have a good physique what's your routine?"

It's an honest mistake and unfortunately happens too often.

Came on too strong, use indirect game next time

[H1N1]

I sympathise with the OP. I think it is a perfectly reasonable thing to have said. I think these days everyone is so insecure, so wound up tight, and there are so many pseudo alphas, that they have lost the ability to appreciate and admire another man's accomplishments. I don't see anything strange or queer in seeing an impressive looking bloke and throwing some props his way. It would go some way towards achieving the kind of world we want if men got back to admiring and appreciating masculinity in other men when they saw it, without envy, or ulterior motive.

Look at some of the old school photos of men in the west, sometimes sat on each others laps, or with arms around each other in a style many now would find uncomfortable. Yet these men were tough, patriarchal, and heterosexual, and far more 'alpha' in most respects than the men that would ridicule them nowadays.

[Blackwell]

(08-20-2015 07:02 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

I sympathise with the OP. I think it is a perfectly reasonable thing to have said. I think these days everyone is so insecure, so wound up tight, and there are so many pseudo alphas, that they have lost the ability to appreciate and admire another man's accomplishments. I don't see anything strange or queer in seeing an impressive looking bloke and throwing some props his way. It would go some way towards achieving the kind of world we want if men got back to admiring and appreciating masculinity in other men when they saw it, without envy, or ulterior motive.

Look at some of the old school photos of men in the west, sometimes sat on each others laps, or with arms around each other in a style many now would find uncomfortable. Yet these men were tough, patriarchal, and heterosexual, and far more 'alpha' in most respects than the men that would ridicule them nowadays.

I agree 100 percent with you H1N1.

Me and my boys will throw compliments and remarks at each other all the time if they're warranted. We will comment positively when one of us has shown a strong example of masculinity, if somebody scores a great goal, a dagger 3, is rocking a sweet new outfit or whatever. I don't see the harm in it.

If that stuff bothers you then you probably have some insecurities.

If I notice that my guys traps have blown up recently, I'm gonna give him his props and probably ask him what he's been doing. I don't worry about them thinking that I'm gay.

If your secure in your own skin and your own sexuality you don't concern yourself with this stuff. When I'm with my boys we are all about good zones, we won't hesitate to give props if they are deserved, it helps to build each other up and bolster the understanding of what it is to be a masculine man.

However, I agree that if your gonna pay a random dude a compliment like that maybe lay some groundwork first like a basic fitness conversation.

All this 'no homo' stuff is very much a modern thing. I don't sweat this stuff I just say what I want to say. It's a strange world where you might feel like giving a guy his props but you don't because you are worried it might be misconstrued as a gay thing.

Again, this comes back to the damage that has been done to social interaction in general via social media, progressives etc.

[Easy_C]

I'm sympathetic to the OP since the reaction was a bit rude.

That said I think he is more venting about the results of his lack of EQ more than anything else. Try to put yourself in the shoes of any ripped, well styled dude in a gay-friendly city like SF or Toronto. You probably get hit on all the time, which is going to have you on your guard constantly. Remember how they'd talk about soldiers coming back from the way who would get an adrenaline spike when they saw things like trash on the road or people driving aggressively towards them? The same defense mechanism is at work in these guys and is causing his hostile reaction.

For the rest of it....that's not masculinity. That's fem-dudes doing what fem-dudes do.

[Ryre]

OP, toxic masculinity is usually used by feminists to refer to men who are too traditionally masculine. E.g.,

"Toxic masculinity is one of the ways in which Patriarchy is harmful to men. It is the socially-constructed attitudes that describe the masculine gender role as violent, unemotional, sexually aggressive, and so forth."

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

You'll probably want to think of a different term for the phenomenon you are trying to discuss.

[Roosh]

]quote]I was at this business talk this evening - and after the talk I saw this young muscular black guy. I simply complimented him on his physique and asked him how much can he brench press. As I also go regularly to the gym -- and use to bench press 260 lbs. The guy immediately thought I was gay. [/quote]

[TigerMandingo]

Gay acceptance has made it harder and harder to make lasting friendships with other dudes. Personally, I thought your comment on his physique was fairly innocuous. If he took it the wrong way, well I'd say that is his problem.

[manly5000]

This thread confuses me... seems like on a fairly regular basis someone will make a comment or throw a compliment my way about my physique, and never once in my life have I thought, "Gee, that's weird, is this guy gay?"

Gotten comments from all sorts of dudes and some women... older dudes, young dudes, thug-looking guys and everything in between. Then again, I am a rather large individual... but this is honestly the first time I've seen anyone equate "bropreciation" to homosexuality. Are we really that paranoid, gentlemen???

[Easy_C]

(08-20-2015 01:46 PM)manly5000 Wrote:  

This thread confuses me... seems like on a fairly regular basis someone will make a comment or throw a compliment my way about my physique, and never once in my life have I thought, "Gee, that's weird, is this guy gay?"

Gotten comments from all sorts of dudes and some women... older dudes, young dudes, thug-looking guys and everything in between. Then again, I am a rather large individual... but this is honestly the first time I've seen anyone equate "bropreciation" to homosexuality. Are we really that paranoid, gentlemen???

You probably would be if you lived in Toronto.