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Home Owner's Association Fees
#1

Home Owner's Association Fees

Anyone here have a place where they pay a monthly HOA?

I'm not ready to get a house, so I'm looking at condos and I'm hitting the reality that any decent condo you're going to get ass fucked by a fat HOA.

To me, that completely obviates the value of 'buying' a condo instead of renting an apartment, when after you buy the condo you have to shell out fees every month anyways. over the course of years you could buy another place for that bullshit monthly fee.

I've also read the HOA is often raised, like if someone else moves out of their condo, your share of the HOA will raise a little which I think is ridiculous. This doesn't really leave any options, if you want to own a place that's not a house your only option is a condo where you'll bleed cash on the HOA.
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#2

Home Owner's Association Fees

I will never own property again, but years ago, before I straightened everything out, I "owned" a condo and buying it was one of the worst moves I've ever made, if not the worst move. I was supposed to pay home owner's association fees and went years without paying them. When they finally did sue me, they tried to get all homeowner fees which I ever owed and not just the fees which were within the three year statute of limitations. Only a nominal amount was within the statute of limitations. They couldn't find me for years and eventually started sending process servers to the Jersey Shore trying to find me. Eventually they found my mom, who I'm pretty sure told them where I was just to get them to stay away. She also knew that I would be able to avoid the vast majority of the fees due to limitations issues. When they finally found me, I explained to the home owner's association's attorney that they were only entitled to a small amount. He agreed with me and I paid what I was at that point legally responsible for. End of story. I think they regularly try to screw over people who don't know the law for amounts which are outside of the statute, get default judgments against them, and either force them into bankruptcy or seriously mess things up for them. In 2015, I can't recommend buying any property ever. Even if you are paying in cash, think twice about it and run the numbers with property taxes, home owner's association fees, estimated repairs, insurance, etc. and decide whether it is worth it.
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#3

Home Owner's Association Fees

They suck for sure, but you also need to look at what they cover, some are more fair than others. Ideally a good HOA will help prevent shitty neighbors from driving property values down. Sometimes they cover roofing, siding, lawncare and more. Find out the details and compare them to other HOAs. Also, I believe your realtor can do this but I may be wrong, look at things such as how the rates have trended over the last few years, and if the HOA has had any problems collecting from anyone. If too many people are behind on their HOA that is a huge red flag.

Ultimately, its a case by case situation if it is worth it. But even if you "own" a home , you still pay the government taxes. Its never really fully yours.
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#4

Home Owner's Association Fees

Its a trade off. There are plenty of things you are not financially responsible for with a condo that you would be with a house. Depending on the HOA fee amount, the level of amenities, location of the condo versus where you'd have to live to have a house, the scales can tip in favor of either. I rent a condo, and probably won't buy property anytime soon, but If I bought it would be something like where I live. Where I live there is "district energy", meaning there are no A/C units, water heaters etc in the units (or even in the building), heating/cooling/hot water is all pumped underground from a central location that serves the entire downtown. I'd never have any of the expenses related to those pieces of equipment. I'd never pay for exterior problems. I live where I can walk everywhere I want, probably could get rid of my car if I wanted to. Gym is just a short ride down the elevator. Tennis court/basketball court/grilling over looking the city. No more missed deliveries, packages will always be in a secure room for retrieval at anytime. A ton of little things that make my life so much easier and save me time- the most important thing for me. Sometimes I feel like I live in a hotel, in a good way. I've never had these things previously, its damn nice.

If I had a house I would be liable for many more potential problems, regular maintenance of the yard, shoveling snow, etc etc. The costs might be a wash over time, but I'd use more of my time doing maintenance shit I don't want to do, I'd have to drive everywhere (more cost), I wouldn't be near the places I like to go, I'd have to get a gym membership (more cost).. a lot of unappealing aspects for me.

Saying that, I'd rather rent this place than own it, at least at this point in my life.

It really depends on the quality of the individual HOA, the fees, the building. There is no general answer, you have to weigh all the other factors that go along with your chosen location and lifestyle.

Americans are dreamers too
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#5

Home Owner's Association Fees

After 20 plus years of being in the industry I believe there are better opportunities than condos in RE. Condo's are generally a less than optimum investment choice IMO. Of course there are a great many variables that can affect that but generally they are the first to get hurt in down cycles and last to recover in market recoveries.

The HOA issue is potentially fraught with a lot of issues that the average real estate buyer doesn't even consider. For example HOA Capital reserves

What happens when a development’s homeowners’ association (HOA) encounters large or unexpected expenses? For example, if the clubhouse roof starts leaking, the pool needs resealing, or a piece of equipment in the fitness room breaks down, where does the HOA get the money to repair or replace these? At such times, the HOA’s reserve fund comes into play.
Just as you probably keep some savings to pay for large, infrequent expenses, such as repairing a car or fixing a plumbing leak, an HOA commonly maintains a type of savings account called the “cash reserves” or a “reserve account” for large, infrequent, or unexpected common area costs.
Responsibilities of an HOA
To fully understand why an HOA must keep some money in reserve, you must first understand its duties and obligations. These are set forth in the development’s governing documents (usually including the articles of incorporation, bylaws, and Covenants, Conditions, Restrictions and Easements (CC&R’s), and any separate rules and regulations).
The governing documents typically obligate the HOA to maintain, operate, and repair and replace the common areas in the development. Common areas normally include the parts of the property owned jointly by everyone who has purchased a home there, and which they all have a right to use. Pools, clubhouses, and parks are common areas found in many developments. In a more upscale development, the common areas might also include entrance gates, fountains, spas, and the like.
How an HOA Pays for Common Area Expenses
The governing documents typically give the HOA the right to collect periodic dues from each homeowner, to pay for the ongoing operation, maintenance, repair, and replacement of the common areas. To determine how much money it needs to collect, an HOA adopts an annual budget.
The amount of ongoing maintenance costs depend, of course, on how many common areas the development contains, and the amenities offered. For instance, the HOA may need to budget for landscaping common parks, cleaning and maintaining a common pool, or providing janitorial service and utilities for a common clubhouse. In a higher-end development, the HOA might also be responsible for paying neighborhood security staff, maintaining outdoor lighting, and caring for common tennis courts and spas.
In a well-run development, in addition to the ongoing daily maintenance and operation costs, the HOA’s annual budget will designate a portion of the dues collected to go into a reserve fund. Such expenses might include, for example, the cost to repair leaky pipes in the common clubhouse, replace broken down fitness equipment in the common workout room, or resurface the common swimming pool.
How Much Money Should Be In the HOA Reserve Fund?
Just as you might have a formula for maintaining a certain amount in your personal savings account (three to six months’ worth of your salary, for example), the HOA must determine an appropriate amount to put in its reserve fund. An HOA commonly has an outside accountant prepare a “reserve study,” which sets out a long-term schedule of likely costs and repairs. The reserve study will, in most cases, estimate the cost and timing of the repairs and replacements to the common areas that will likely be needed over the next 20 to 30 years.
For example, if the reserve study anticipates that the clubhouse will need a new roof in ten years, the study’s schedule will spread out the estimated cost of the repairs over the ten-year period, and advise that the HOA collect enough in periodic dues to set an apportioned amount into the reserve fund in each of those ten years.
No Reserve Fund = Higher Dues or Special Assessments
An HOA without an adequate reserve fund is asking for trouble. When an HOA without money in reserve is faced with expenses outside its general operations budget, the HOA will likely have two choices: increase dues significantly right away, or levy special assessments.
Neither of these will go over well with the development’s homeowners. Owners will likely balk at, and might not be able to afford steeply increased dues or the demand for a large amount of money at one time (as in the case of a special assessment).
Also, both raised dues and special assessments are inefficient solutions. Both penalize current owners for the HOA's previous lack of planning. It’s much more fair and efficient to include repair and replacement costs automatically as a part of the periodic dues, as occurs when a reserve fund is properly maintained.
The Reserve Fund Must Be Kept Funded
Properly maintaining the reserve fund is important. Even if the HOA has an adequately funded reserve fund now, it must ensure that it stays that way.
In order to avoid angering homeowners with frequent, modest raises to periodic dues (as is commonly needed to keep up with increased maintenance costs), HOAs have been known to dip into the reserves for regular, ongoing expenses. Sometimes this is due to a board member who obtained a position on the board by promising not to raise dues. Of course, if expenses continue to rise, and the dues stay the same, the HOA’s ongoing use of the reserve fund money will eventually leave the fund empty and the HOA unable to meet its repair and replacement obligations.
Some states have responded legislatively to this problem of HOAs abusing reserve funds. In California, for example, HOAs must, by law, have a reserve fund study completed every three years, have a plan to meet the anticipated repair and replacement obligations, and each year disclose whether the reserve funds are sufficient to meet the HOA’s obligations over the next thirty years. (This is in CA).
Even if the state you live in does not regulate reserve funds, you should be concerned about whether the HOA in your development (or the one you’re thinking of buying into) has funded and maintains an adequate reserve account. If not, you can expect a major hike in dues or a large special assessment down the road.
If you need help determining whether the HOA in the development you live in (or are interested in living in) has a reserve fund, and if so, how much is held there, a real estate professional in your area can assist you.

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
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#6

Home Owner's Association Fees

If you own and are renting out the property a HOA may cost you some extra money, but as long as they neighborhood is near full habitation won't affect you personally. If you live in the house an HOA is a fast track to hell most likely run by the post menopausal. Condo associations aren't as bad and a somehwat necessary evil given the problem of shared walls. I would rather gut a block in the inner city to homestead though before living in an HOA ghetto.
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#7

Home Owner's Association Fees

I've owned and lived in a 162 unit condo building with HOAs for the past 3 years. At $384 a month it definitely isn't cheap on top of any mortgage you may have but I have found the peace of mind worth it not having to deal with yard work and living in a central location.
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#8

Home Owner's Association Fees

Any thoughts on buying a condo with the plan to rent it out?

I know that a HOA can put limits on how many units can be rented at any time.
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#9

Home Owner's Association Fees

Quote: (08-19-2015 07:58 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

Any thoughts on buying a condo with the plan to rent it out?

I know that a HOA can put limits on how many units can be rented at any time.

I plan on doing this in the very near future with my condo. At some of our board meetings they have discussed trying to prohibit people from being able to rent out their units. I think they said they would need a 75% vote or something which would be almost impossible considering we usually don't even get 50% of the owners to show up for the yearly meeting.

So from what it sounds like unless your building starts out with the rule of not being able to rent out units it will be hard for any building to gather enough votes to ever pass it or at least that is the case in my building.
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#10

Home Owner's Association Fees

Quote: (08-19-2015 07:58 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

Any thoughts on buying a condo with the plan to rent it out?

I know that a HOA can put limits on how many units can be rented at any time.

There are 3 basic ways to make money with RE

1. Improvement/ development

2. Market

3. Rental income

I personally think condos are GENERALLY the worst place to invest money in RE (There are exceptions of course, ocean view properties, Central Park, etc).

There are a million ways to make money in RE (and Ive been planning on writing a datasheet ) but for most individual investors just starting I;d suggest alternatives.

One example: Duplex/triplex/quadplex in any town near a large University. There is almost always a shortage of good student housing so there;s demand. The best part about off campus student housing (as a landlord) is that mommy and daddy co-sign the lease...think about that

Gotta go but I'll write more tomorrow

_______________________________________
- Does She Have The "Happy Gene" ?
-Inversion Therapy
-Let's lead by example


"Leap, and the net will appear". John Burroughs

"The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
Joseph Campbell
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#11

Home Owner's Association Fees

For a young man who wants to travel it's just not practical to own a house. And with an apartment you don't build equity. That leaves condos as the best option, you don't really have to care for it or maintain it. It's not so much about being the best investment but what is most convenient
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#12

Home Owner's Association Fees

Just make sure you are getting value for your HOA fees because they will not go down but will only ever go up. Amenities such as gym, parking, pool, door man etc... When you go to resale the buyers are going to evaluate yhe HOA fees and what they get in return and that can and will make or break you at the end of the day.

"I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story." Nas
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#13

Home Owner's Association Fees

If at all possible, stay the hell away from HOA's.

No time to go into specifics now. A couple years ago I gave a semi-humorous speech comparing HOA's to Nazis. For now let's just say that the meeting I gave that speech at got railroaded because everyone started ranting about their HOA horror stories after I spoke.
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#14

Home Owner's Association Fees

Used to own property subject to an HOA (and fee). I distinguish single family homes subject to HOA's from condos subject to condo fees because the former tends to be lower since there is no need for capital reserves if you own a SFH.

The worst part of HOA's for me was not so much the fee itself but rather all of the rules and bylaws that limit what you can do with your property (again, only relevant to SFH's). I just find that concept at odds with the notion that the property is yours. It is all ostensibly about property values, but that's a bunch of BS.

The other thing to keep in mind is that your condo fee is NOT tax deductible (assuming talking about US property here) like your mortgage interest is. However, it is tax deductible if you are renting the condo out because it considered an expense.

While I own property now, I'm very doubtful as to whether I would buy another property to live in as a primary residence.
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#15

Home Owner's Association Fees

Don't own a fucking house unless you have someone maintaining it.
I've had mine for six years now and there are always some disturbances going on.

Fortunately I have a few family members that have agreed to take care of my house and yard when I've been traveling.

I will probably sell the whole mansion away sooner or later. Would prefer living in a condo instead.
More time for doing things that I want rather than doing things that I need.

Of course having an own house has it's advantages, but it's not suitable for a single man like me with other interests in life than maintaining the garden or shoveling snow.
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#16

Home Owner's Association Fees

I live in a cluster "home" community with an HOA and fees. Mine aren't bad at all (135/mo), and it covers lawn/snow/landscaping and works out for me as I'm not a slave to household chores. That being said you have to be very careful about the HOA rules and the fees as a bad HOA can be a royal pain.
For me when I was looking for a place I absolutely was not considering a "managed" community. But with my intensive travel over the years it's really been helpful to not have to worry about that crap.
The thing I do have issue with are taxes though. I pay upwards of 7 grand annually.. for horsesh* public schools. Which I get minimal benefit from.
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