[Bobb Johnson]

I didn't find any threads about this so I thought I might start it. I am a huge, huge history, linguistics and geography lover. Recently I have been really into this subject matter and trying to learn more. There is an extensive amount of work related to this subject so why not post it on this thread and share information.

This is the Egyptian Hieroglyphics and Ancient Egypt history thread.
Post information on books, documentaries, pictures, videos, and websites about hieroglyphics or Egyptian history.

The name Egypt comes from the Greek word Ai-gyp-tios, which was the Greek name for a major city/capital of Ancient Egypt called Hut-Ka-Ptah. This city changed names several times and later was renamed Men-Nefer, which the Greeks called Memphis. So basically the Greek word for that city became the name for that country. Hieroglyphics comes from the Greek words hieros-glypho meaning "sacred-carvings".

The Ancient Egyptians called their country Kemet, which means "The Black Land". They also called their country other names. Ta-Meri, which means "Beloved Land"/"Land of the Riverbank"; also they called their country Ta-Wi meaning "Two Lands", referencing Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt. They called their language Medu-Netjer, Words of the Gods or God's words.







Ancient Egyptian civilization roughly lasts 2500 years divided into 3 major parts; Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, and New Kingdom (there being intermediate periods of instability between them and after periods after them). One of the oldest civilizations, it used written language, agriculture, and social classifications. The fertile Nile river is the source of the civilization. The written language was deciphered in the early 1800s from old Greek/Egyptian texts.
Just like all other ancient languages, Egyptian has died out long ago.


Here are few examples of the language:

Few links to get started:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt

Feel free to add more and share.

[Saweeep]

Fantastic post.

Fascinating culture and subject in general.

[Bad Hussar]

Good idea for a thread. Some questions that come up:

1) Why did the Egyptians call their land "The black land". Not wanting to get into political waters here, but it seems from paintings that the Egyptians were either brown or reddish skinned. Was it because of the silt coming down the Nile?

2) Did the Egyptians ever get far enough that they made reusable stamps of the common hieroglyphs, or was every single one of them drawn by hand?

3 Is it really true that we would have nearly no idea what the hieroglyphs mean if it wasn't for the Rosetta Stone, or is this a fanciful exaggeration?

[Quintus Curtius]

This is relevant and interesting. Egyptian is at :30 in this recording.

Examples of what some of these old languages actually sounded like when spoken.

Some of them sound very modern. Akkadian, Phoenician, and Sabaic sound recognizably similar to modern Arabic. I can even make out similar words.

[Quintus Curtius]

I like this description of the "kopesh", one of the main infantry weapons of the Egyptian infantry.

It's at 19:30.

[Chaos]

Very interesting Quintus!

I'm curious how they know those ancient languages sounded like that?

Old English took me by surprise, it's sound very Scandinavian! Could recognise a few things there.
This is how I imagine what Scandinavian languages could sound like to a non-native speaker.

Would have loved to see something about Finno-Ugric too.

EDIT: Props to OP (4 posts) for a decent a first thread.

[Quintus Curtius]

(08-17-2015 12:58 PM)Chaos Wrote:  

Very interesting Quintus!

I'm curious how they know those ancient languages sounded like that?

Old English took me by surprise, it's sound very Scandinavian! Could recognise a few things there.
This is how I imagine what Scandinavian languages could sound like to a non-native speaker.

Would have loved to see something about Finno-Ugric too.

EDIT: Props to OP (4 posts) for a decent a first thread.

They don't know precisely how an ancient language would have sounded, of course, since these were the days before electronic recordings.

But they have a very good idea. They can very accurately reconstruct these things from poetry, rhyming clues from poetry, existing grammars, word lists, and written records from the period, and even from modern languages.

Ancient Egyptian never really "died"; it just became Coptic, the language of most Egypt before the coming of the Arabs in the 8th century AD. Coptic is still the liturgical language of the Christian Church in Egypt.

From this, they can get an idea of how the sounds evolved over the centuries. It's detective work, but a lot more precise than you might think.

For Latin and Greek, it's relatively easy. There is so much written in these languages that we have a very, very good idea how they sounded.

[Tuthmosis]

Tuthmosis approves of this thread:

[Bobb Johnson]

Haha, how can I forget about Tuthmosis lol.

By the way Tuthmosis III is one of, if not the greatest pharaohs in Egyptian history.

I recommend you to read about him.
Basically he took the throne in his late teens/early twenties when Egyptian military was regarded as weak to the point that vassals in Canaan rallied to rebel and revolt.

His predecessor Hatshepsut, the female pharaoh, cut spending from the military and funneled into artworks and trade.
As a result Egypt was peaceful but its enemies who once feared it were now bold enough to rebel and mock them.

He rallied his military, increased military budget expenditures, and enforced conscription to restore order and expand borders. 20 years later after waging dozens of wars and military campaigns, Egypt expanded its territories to its greatest extent boundaries ever and controlled all the trade routes. He finished off his reign by defacing and ruining all of Hatshepsut's monuments.

[cascadecombo]

(08-17-2015 12:36 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

Good idea for a thread. Some questions that come up:

1) Why did the Egyptians call their land "The black land". Not wanting to get into political waters here, but it seems from paintings that the Egyptians were either brown or reddish skinned. Was it because of the silt coming down the Nile?

2) Did the Egyptians ever get far enough that they made reusable stamps of the common hieroglyphs, or was every single one of them drawn by hand?

3 Is it really true that we would have nearly no idea what the hieroglyphs mean if it wasn't for the Rosetta Stone, or is this a fanciful exaggeration?

Your second point was one of my first thoughts as well. Even thought the Chinese use complex characters in their writing each character is its own word while this looks more like sounds to form words.

If they did use stamps, I would be very curious as to how advanced they were. Not saying they would have had a typewriter but I wonder how much of a stretch that would be.

[Bobb Johnson]

Bad Hussar,
1) "Why did the Egyptians call their land "The black land". Not wanting to get into political waters here, but it seems from paintings that the Egyptians were either brown or reddish skinned. Was it because of the silt coming down the Nile?"

There are some theories but no real answer. Some say its called Kemet (black land) because of the soil color. The Nile River soil is very fertile, so as a result very dark brown/black in color.

Others say that its because they were black themselves, so they called their country that. It can be a very political and highly tense debate which I don't like to pick a side. I would rather look at the history instead. Some say they are black Africans, others say Middle Easterners, others say blond white, etc. In reality they're probably neither one of those. They probably could've had a somewhat 'East African' look.

The Egyptians called Semitic Middle Easterners "Aamu", roughly translated as 'Asiatics'. And the black Africans in the south, were known as Nubians. It is clear they are distinguishing themselves from these two distinct groups.



If you don't know what East Africans look like, here are examples of the Afar ethnic group living in Ethiopia, Eritrea, and Djibouti.









Some theories say that Proto-Egyptians left this part of Africa to settle in the fertile Nile River to create their civilization (again another controversial theory).

Anyways, that was long drawn out, but we don't know why it was called Kemet. My best bet is because of the soil color used in agriculture on the banks of the Nile.

This video is pretty good. In fact that whole youtube channel is really good.

[Bobb Johnson]

Bad Hussar,
2) "Did the Egyptians ever get far enough that they made reusable stamps of the common hieroglyphs, or was every single one of them drawn by hand?"

Great question. I don't know if they used stamps. What I do know is that they developed a cursive script of hieroglyphics called hieratic, and then demotic which is another variant of cursive script. It seems those cursive scripts were probably used for day to day transactions where as important monuments and religious texts were in hieroglyphics.

So they probably didn't need stamps if they had simplified cursive script that increased productivity.

[Patriarch]

(08-17-2015 12:44 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

This is relevant and interesting. Egyptian is at :30 in this recording.

Examples of what some of these old languages actually sounded like when spoken.

Some of them sound very modern. Akkadian, Phoenician, and Sabaic sound recognizably similar to modern Arabic. I can even make out similar words.

Strange how different old Japanese and Chinese sound from the modern languages. Also, the Latin pronunciation was different from what I thought it would be. I always thought the pronunciation would more closely resemble modern Italian than the other Romance languages, but the video puts it somewhere between French and Italian.

[RawGod]

Re: the old debate (well, since the black activists of the '60s started it) about the color of the ancient Egyptians: go to Egypt and take a look at the people. The ancient Egyptians were their ancestors, 98-99.5% genetically identical. Yes there is increasing "blackness" the further you move up the Nile, same today as then.

Even when languages change, conquerors move in, the genes of the people remain mostly unchanged. The same is true for most places in Europe, Asia and Africa.

Modern DNA analysis bears this out time and time again.

[BossOfBosses]

So Rawgod, the genes of the people of Mexico since the conquistadors have remained mostly unchanged?

Not a good argument bro.

[Alexandrian]

Not this "we beez gypshuns" crap again. I thought this myth died out a long time ago..

[BossOfBosses]

Alexandrian, what "myth"?

[Alexandrian]

(09-06-2015 04:59 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

Alexandrian, what "myth"?

The myth which claims that African-Americans are somehow the descendants of ancient Egyptians.
A quick research will show that ancient Egypt was and still is an entirely Middle Eastern, Eastern Mediterranean and North African nation. Egyptians are related to Berbers and Semites.

[BossOfBosses]

Alexandrian, no one seriously believes African-Americans are directly descended from ancient Egyptians (Af-am's are from West/Central Africa). It was never a "myth" in the first place.

On the other hand, you can't with a straight face say the ancient Egyptians were "entirely" of middle eastern descent. For starters, the language they spoke is spoken nowhere in the Middle East and they distinguished themselves from "semites" and "north africans" in their paintings (Egypt-bottom middle).



Your vague claim of "just do research" does nothing to support your point.

[Bobb Johnson]

BossofBosses and Alexandrian,
Please guys this thread should be cool place to learn and share, lets not get it ugly.

I am not African American, nor did I say Ancient Egyptians were African Americans.
I am not a White Supremacist nor am I a Pan-African Black-Power nutcase (honestly I hate both groups equally based on my experiences). I am just a history and geography lover.

I said:
"There are some theories but no real answer. Some say its called Kemet (black land) because of the soil color. The Nile River soil is very fertile, so as a result very dark brown/black in color.
Others say that its because they were black themselves, so they called their country that. It can be a very political and highly tense debate which I don't like to pick a side. I would rather look at the history instead. Some say they are black Africans, others say Middle Easterners, others say blond white, etc. In reality they're probably neither one of those. They probably could've had a somewhat 'East African' look."

I said that quote in response to BadHussar's question of why Ancient Egyptians called their land Kemet to which I even responded by saying it was because of Nile Delta fertile soil.
How then Alexandrian can you claim I am saying Ancient Egyptians are African Americans?

Now keep in mind East Africans are physically, culturally, and ethnically distinct from 'Black' Africans and Middle Easterners. I even put a disclaimer that there is a controversial theory stating Proto-Egyptians left this part of Africa (in 6000BC and offshooted from other East Africans, to settle in the Nile river valley to create their own civilization).

I am not saying Ancient Egyptians are East Africans but rather they look similar physically; perhaps there is some older ancestor for both of them.

Please guys no negativity, lets learn more about this amazing history together (the purpose of this thread).

[Bobb Johnson]

Cool documentary on Battle of Kadesh.

Synopsis:
Young Ramesses II ascends the throne after his father Seti I dies. Bold, young, naive, and seeking glory the 25 year old leads his troops to the Syrian city of Kadesh to fight the Hittite army and his allies; this being and ongoing saga of Egypt and Hatti vying for control of Canaan. The battle result is ambiguous, most likely the battle is a draw. Significance of the battle? Its the largest chariot battle, earliest known battle to be well recorded (battle formations and tactics), and eventually the first ever recorded and written peace treaty.
With the battle resulting in a tie (debated issue), Ramesses II and Muwatalli II sign a peace treaty.


Information about battle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kadesh

[Alexandrian]

(09-06-2015 08:03 PM)Bobb Johnson Wrote:  

BossofBosses and Alexandrian,
Please guys this thread should be cool place to learn and share, lets not get it ugly.

I am not African American, nor did I say Ancient Egyptians were African Americans.
I am not a White Supremacist nor am I a Pan-African Black-Power nutcase (honestly I hate both groups equally based on my experiences). I am just a history and geography lover.

I said:
"There are some theories but no real answer. Some say its called Kemet (black land) because of the soil color. The Nile River soil is very fertile, so as a result very dark brown/black in color.
Others say that its because they were black themselves, so they called their country that. It can be a very political and highly tense debate which I don't like to pick a side. I would rather look at the history instead. Some say they are black Africans, others say Middle Easterners, others say blond white, etc. In reality they're probably neither one of those. They probably could've had a somewhat 'East African' look."

I said that quote in response to BadHussar's question of why Ancient Egyptians called their land Kemet to which I even responded by saying it was because of Nile Delta fertile soil.
How then Alexandrian can you claim I am saying Ancient Egyptians are African Americans?

Now keep in mind East Africans are physically, culturally, and ethnically distinct from 'Black' Africans and Middle Easterners. I even put a disclaimer that there is a controversial theory stating Proto-Egyptians left this part of Africa (in 6000BC and offshooted from other East Africans, to settle in the Nile river valley to create their own civilization).

I am not saying Ancient Egyptians are East Africans but rather they look similar physically; perhaps there is some older ancestor for both of them.

Please guys no negativity, lets learn more about this amazing history together (the purpose of this thread).

I don't mean to come off as negative or something. I researched it years ago for a very long time by studying Egyptian and Semitic genetics, linguistics and historical records. Most black supremacists who are involved in these debates also always claim they are somehow the real Egyptians (and Hebrews, and Phoenicians) and they also often adopt ancient Egyptian-sounding names. That's why I might have been a bit too defensive.

So let's continue discussing this interesting subject

I believe East Africans are originally Semites that moved to present-day Ethiopia and mixed with the local Nilo-Saharan population. A DNA test done on modern-day Ethiopians also confirms this. That's why East Africans are similair to Semites and Egyptians, AND sub-Saharan Africans. Most Ethiopians speak a Semitic language so we do share a common origin. That's a fact. Even when you look at Ethiopians the mix of Middle Eastern and African characteristics is noticable. The theory I regard as most logical is that the birthplace of the Afro-Asiatic people is in the Levant.

What do you guys think?

[Bobb Johnson]

Cool Alexandrian. No worries about it man.

You know that's an interesting theory.

This video below might be the theory you're talking about (based in Levant).

Here is another video that explores the theory that they started in Northeastern Africa.

Any way I don't know which theory to go with. But it is interesting to compare.

[BossOfBosses]

Alexandrian there are a good percentage of Ethiopians who don't speak a semetic language (they speak from the cushitic branch, which originates in Africa). You're referring to the Amhara who are a separate ethnic group of the many within Ethiopia.

Also Ethiopians, like other east africans typically have large foreheads (which arabs don't have) and small noses (which arabs/middle easterners don't have). And other anatomical features not really found in the middle east like large frontal teeth and long limb ratios. If they were hybrids they would look more closely middle eastern (bigger noses, sloped foreheads, bushy brows etc).

Bottom line east africa is diverse. Ethiopia is diverse. Semitic is only spoken by a minority of Ethiopians. Some Ethiopians are mixed, most probably are'nt. This goes for most of East Africa.