[Samseau]

(06-16-2015 11:17 PM)Tex Pro Wrote:  

SJWs go hysterical over this thread:

[Samseau]

The idea we need to censor ourselves in fear of what other people think of us is weak and pathetic. I for one salute Ziltoid for having the balls to express extreme thoughts. I don't think he was acting out of line, even if he was mistaken.

Beyond Borders Wrote:

The woman was annoying, but I agree with them on the basic premise that those comments were ridiculous and unfounded. I wish they would have pointed out that it's not just that all "MRAs" agree but that not even everyone in this forum or thread agreed.

I also don't believe the woman would be so vehement if feminists said this - feminists say this shit all the time.

That being said, it has become clear that many people involved in this "movement," or whatever you want to call it, have zero qualms with making a lot of the same mistakes extreme feminists make. That's a tragedy but unfortunately the case any time you're dealing with people associating in groups around a cause or idea.

For the most part, groups of people cannot be trusted to keep a level head.

This sort of holier than thou posturing is toxic for the forum. It silences original thoughts and makes people conform to the mainstream.

By the way - the idea that Ziltoid's comments were ridiculous and unfounded is beside the point. The VAST majority of posters in this thread disagreed with Ziltoid, myself included. The idea that we have one outlier in a pool of opinions somehow makes us like feminists or whatever is a bunch of bullshit, and you guys are being sucked into the Young Turk's frame without even putting up a fight.

Come on fellas, this is an internet chat board for men only. Time to lighten up.

Also, as usual, the hypocrisy of the Young Turks is completely lost on them... you've got thousands of women being raped and murdered by ISIS, 1500 raped in Rotherham alone (and God knows how many in other British cities), Sweden has a massive Rape wave due to insane SJW politics, and what do these guys focus on? A chat board?



Fucking losers.

[tomtud]

Terrible loss for the woman's family....this dude was a bit unstable mentally. He should have more confidence in dealing with rejection from women and a shitty job. Not the end of the world.....tha being said....
The laws in western countries are biased against men period. Men are so thirsty for pussy that they allow women to disrespect them, hence you have HR who couldn't transfer this guy to another mall, or if they have a contract with some factory send him there when there is a Problem.... No compassion,,,, just fire him and move on.
The girl if she felt annoyed and harassed has every right to file a complaint. What did he tell her exactly??? Has she been taught to be a lady and say thank you if he made a compliment, there is no harm here. Had he been annoying like dudes are in some areas well, she doesn't deserve to listen to that.

I guess people need training on how to politely deal with unwanted compliments and know when to give a compliment. Again. HR will need to improve training.
Girls need to learn if someone gives you a compliment to say thank you or ignore and move on, don't stop. Eventually the dude or nowadays lesbian will get the hint.

[Ziltoid]

Comments section of that video is pretty hilarious right now, tons of upvoted comments calling them out for quoting a blog that was quoting a forum as "news", that they hamfistedly mislabeled us as MRAs and PUAs, discussing the prevalence of false rape and harassment allegations, that they bizarrely shifted the topic to me not getting laid (well, ok, even a broken clock is right twice a day), that the quotations were out of context of the discussion, even a couple people going to bat for my original point that this guy may have been pushed into a corner by company policy and untruths and just snapped.

Probably won't last, once they get their full on clickbait traffic from tumblr et al.

[Barron]

Holy shit I laughed so hard I had tears in my eyes when Ana quoted Zilt's comment screaming mad!! That chick ain't getting fucked right if she has so much excess passion to frivolously give out over a comment on a forum.

Ana since you're reading this please PM me and lets arrange to direct that passion in a more constructive manner

But the true comedy began when shithead went into his random personal story of never getting laid for ages. I mean WTF... where did that come from??

Finally, to the guys on here denouncing Ziltoid to save face... pathetic.

[lemko]

(06-13-2015 04:44 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Look at the details of this story. There's a LOT more than meets the eye. By the way Roosh - fucking amazing you saw this coming. NICE JOB! Mad respect, you are a true sociologist.

http://thegazette.com/man-in-mall-shooti...n-20150614

Quote:

Kozak is a “normal kid” who was trying to get a better job and considering enlisting in the Navy, his father-in-law said Saturday.

Not a drug addict. Not mentally-ill. No prior criminal record. Just like anyone else. Could be you or me.

Quote:

Ken Kozak, of Stacyville, said Alex married his daughter, Kellie, last September. When the two wed, Alex took Kellie’s last name, her father said. Ken Kozak said he didn’t know Alex’s original last name.

“His dad left the family when he was quite young,” Ken Kozak said. “He didn’t take kindly to it so he thought it’d be a good opportunity to change his name.”

Raised without a father. Who wants to bet that his father ran away because he was looking at jail time for not paying insanely high child-support payments?

He still managed to find a wife and get married. Took her name because he assumed his father was a bad man, most likely brainwashed to believe this by his mother. Lived his life in deference to women.

Quote:

He said police have not provided the family with much information about the shooting. He described his son-in-law as an “average person” who was “very, very polite.”

“All I can say about Alex is he’s a real good guy,” he said. “He’d do anything for you.”

Alex and Kellie were interested in archery, and Ken Kozak said he went shooting with his son-in-law in the past. Alex had a Glock handgun, Kozak said.

Friendly, loving man who was so hungry for the love he never got growing up he'd be nice to anyone who was nice to him. Like a beat puppy.

Quote:

A post on Kellie Kozak’s Facebook page detailing a visit to Costco in which her husband was apparently carrying a sidearm indicates the pair are strong supporters of the Second Amendment. Ken Kozak said his son-in-law was responsible with weapons.

“If circumstances were that it’d be best not to have a weapon present, he didn’t have a problem with that,” he said. “He didn’t brandish one around or anything.”

Posts on Alex Kozak’s Facebook page make references to the Armed Services and weapons. On May 28, he shared a photo containing the text, “I am a born free, gun toting, Constitution loving American.”

A Bible-thumping, patriotic, salt-of-the-earth American who actually believed the Constitution means anything. A simple man.

Quote:

A photo album on his Facebook page titled, “My Toys” contains more than a dozen images of knives, swords, a gas mask, a copy of the book, “The Anarchist Cookbook,” and other weapons. One blade is stamped with the text, “One Shot One Kill.”

Oh no! He likes his weapons. He must be mentally-ill!

So, after examining the above facts here is the most likely conclusion:

He wasn't being rude to anyone on his job. He wasn't trying to be a pick-up artist on the job and shitting where he eats. His 'prior-complaints leading up to his firing' are almost certainly trumped-up charges. His crime? Being a beta male raised without a father and a domineering mother.

He probably would say things to mall customers like,

"Hello sir. Enjoying your day?

"Hi Ma'am. You look lovely today!"

"Hello folks. Enjoying the weather?"

"Hello Missus. Feeling pretty today?"

"Goodday sir, you are one lucky guy to have your wife."

And then one day, a feminist walks into the mall, and he says something like this:

"Hello Missus beautiful! Are you making people happy today?"

A completely innocent remark that was standard-fare for a once-great America, but now some woman completely TRIGGERED by her feminist brainwashing thinks,

"What a creep! Look at him objectify and harass women like that? Who does this loser think he is? Why does this mall employ such a worthless man?"

She stops, gives him a dirty look, and asks him,

"Do you seriously believe it's okay to talk to a woman like that?"

He replies,

"Telling a woman she's beautiful is the greatest thing any man can do for a woman," with a big smile.

She makes a face of pure disgust, and turns away from him while speedily walking away. Unsure of what just happened, Alex turns around and continues on his day of greeting customers and watching over the mall.

And she goes to the mall's HR department. She files a complaint. The HR department reviews some security videos, and finds this man giving "sexual" compliments to women. The feminist continues, "I hope I won't need to expose this man on twitter and give the mall a bad name before he harrasses even more women."

So, rather than talk to this guy he just gets fired on the spot. After all, security guards are easy to replace - a dime a dozen. They could probably find an illegal alien to do it at half-price anyways. A manager goes up to him,

"Alex, can we have your badge please. We've been told of your sexual harassment to other women and this is unacceptable here."

Alex tries to protest but is met with, "Alex if you do not comply we will be forced to call the police."

And this poor man, who receives such injustice is immediately filled with burning rage; all of the issues of his childhood neglect well-up inside of him, and he stops thinking rationally.

"What the fuck is this. How am I supposed to keep my wife now? How can we have children if I have no income? What am I supposed to do now? I DID NOTHING WRONG!! THAT FUCKING BITCH! THAT STUPID WHORE! I KNOW WHO DID THIS. SHE THINKS I'M A SEXUAL HARASSER?"

Alex believes his life is over. He knows he won't find another job; it took him nearly a year to find this one. He won't find another girl; he's already balding and his current wife is so beautiful to him it is impossible to imagine life without her. He already knows he'll never find a girl as good as her to be his wife; he'll never get to be the father he never had.

He goes home, crying. He finds his gun and loads it. And he rushes back to the mall with blood in his eyes.


Postscript:

I cannot prove if the above is true, but based on my understanding of beta-male psychology raised by single-mothers, and feminist psychology, the above is probably very accurate. Hopefully in the court the video evidence will be released to the public to see what exactly caused him to be fired and I can see if my understanding is any good.

Also, I do not think this man was justified to murder. He must be imprisoned. But the amount of self-control it would have taken him not to snap was more than an average man could handle; indeed it would have required a Saint-like amount of virtue to not blow up after having his life completely destroyed. As Roosh says, Alex's only crime was being average:

Quote:

Brad’s only fault in life was that he was an average man. He was destined not to greatness, but to having a mediocre job in a mediocre town with mediocre entertainments to fill his time. Getting out of the hole that Katie put him in was too great a task. Someone more capable would have thought of other options beyond what he was about to do, but Brad believed this was the only way to end his pain.

He pulled out his gun from the duffel bag. He ran up to Katie and grabbed her shoulder, spinning her around as she yelled out “Get off of me!” The last thing she saw was a shaking gun pointed at her chest.

America is no longer a place for average men. Let the descent into the next dark ages begin.

Spectacular post, Samseau! I couldn't have written it any better!

[lemko]

(06-13-2015 05:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:30 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 05:00 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Quote:

But the amount of self-control it would have taken him not to snap was more than an average man could handle; indeed it would have required a Saint-like amount of virtue to not blow up after having his life completely destroyed. As Roosh says, Alex's only crime was being average:

You're being dramatic. He was a mall cop. He got fired. He can get another job. It's not the end of the world. This is a routine occurrence, and the vast majority of people who experience it, men or women, just move on and deal with it. This dude didn't because he was seriously ill.

Or, he had no education and no chance at keeping his girl before pulling his life back together. For a beta male, losing your love is quite literally the end of the world.

Those are still routine situations. Very rarely do they result in people killing someone. Plus there's no indication that he was going to lose his girl. If he had thought so, that's his extreme anxiety.

Being in love is not anxiety. Also you are right these are routine situations, which is why so many men kill themselves after divorce or kill their wives or kill their entire family. In fact this sort of "blowing up" is rather common. Dude truly believed he was fucked and went nuts.

Really man - the mentally ill explanation makes no sense whatsoever. There is nothing to indicate he was mentally ill. No prior arrests. No drug addictions. Marries an intelligent young pretty girl. Gets along with everyone. You're grasping at straws because you refuse to believe that this is what America is becoming.

If the man was truly mentally ill, he'd have already had some run-ins with the law and/or drug and alcohol addictions as these guys tend to self-medicate.

[Roosh]

WB Ana while she's raging.

   



She is developing a roughness about her look, though. I think it's all that anger.

[Roosh]

We made Salon and Raw Story:

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/16/mens_rig...complaint/

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/mens-rig...blame-him/

[Ziltoid]

Was that salon article taken down already?

[CH-Toronto]

Here's the link to the Salon article- copy/pasting Salon articles I've found doesn't work properly and I'm not sure why.

http://tinyurl.com/nj2qnyw

Quote:

Samseau, blamed Kozak’s absent father and “domineering” single mother for leaving the shooter ill-equipped to handle his (in their world, justifiable) rage at Farrington. Surprisingly, the commenter conceded that Kozak probably shouldn’t have committed murder

Surprisingly, because we're all murder advocates here.

[Roosh]

(06-17-2015 08:15 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Was that salon article taken down already?

It's working for me. Here's the archive: https://archive.is/zEQQz

[Ziltoid]

Weird.
Block on referral traffic from this forum?

[Beyond Borders]

(06-17-2015 05:46 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

The idea we need to censor ourselves in fear of what other people think of us is weak and pathetic. I for one salute Ziltoid for having the balls to express extreme thoughts. I don't think he was acting out of line, even if he was mistaken.

Beyond Borders Wrote:

The woman was annoying, but I agree with them on the basic premise that those comments were ridiculous and unfounded. I wish they would have pointed out that it's not just that all "MRAs" agree but that not even everyone in this forum or thread agreed.

I also don't believe the woman would be so vehement if feminists said this - feminists say this shit all the time.

That being said, it has become clear that many people involved in this "movement," or whatever you want to call it, have zero qualms with making a lot of the same mistakes extreme feminists make. That's a tragedy but unfortunately the case any time you're dealing with people associating in groups around a cause or idea.

For the most part, groups of people cannot be trusted to keep a level head.

This sort of holier than thou posturing is toxic for the forum. It silences original thoughts and makes people conform to the mainstream.

By the way - the idea that Ziltoid's comments were ridiculous and unfounded is beside the point. The VAST majority of posters in this thread disagreed with Ziltoid, myself included. The idea that we have one outlier in a pool of opinions somehow makes us like feminists or whatever is a bunch of bullshit, and you guys are being sucked into the Young Turk's frame without even putting up a fight.

First off, slipping in the "weak and pathetic" before you quoted me to hide the fact that you're actually talking about me is what is weak and pathetic. Do me a favor if you're going to insult me and and cut the passive agression. I'm right here, and you're not even within reaching distance.

Second, I specifically stated I could care less what these people think. That's not what it's about to me at all. I also specifically stated the ways in which I think the people in the video are wrong.

You've seen me posting on this forum for quite a few years, and over and over again I've spoke up when my opinion was in the minority and went against the grain of the forum (often specifically to you, I'd add) - perhaps even to an irritating fault at times. At times it may have even seemed like I was on the wrong forum because my ideas were so contrary.

So to pretend I'm cowing to "public opinion" because I happen to agree with some of the assertions of some cheesy wannabe news program (I don't even know who the hell these people are except that some of members post videos of them sometimes), you are sadly mistaken, buddy. Also, don't forget I'm one of the only posters on this forum who has zero qualms showing his face to the world. Or maybe you didn't realize that, but there it is.

What is weak and pathetic to me is when someone disagrees with a group they are part of and refuses to speak up. Or when they refuse to entertain non-group notions at all. I've stood against that my whole life, even in the real world, even when in physical danger for doing so, even literally putting my life at risk to stand up for what only I knew and believed. Something not many men in the modern world have the spine for anymore.

And that's not everybody's idea of what makes a man, but it's mine.

So, there are a lot of things you could accuse me of, but being a "mainstream" thinker is not one of them.

Hell, I live out my life in Cambodia, of all places, hiding from "my own" most of the time and making a fully independent income on my computer to maintain my freedom to say or do what I want...Spending years hiding from the norm or allowing myself to fully integrate into any groups. And now I'm mainstream? Ha!

Let me make something perfectly clear. Note what I said about the way people struggle to keep a level head when they associate in groups.

See, a mainstream thinker is not a mainstream thinker because they necessarily believe in mainstream ideas. A mainstream thinker is someone who goes with the ideas of his group without question, whether the group he identifies with is the world at large, his group of buddies, the manosphere, or feminists. Mainstream thinking doesn't have anything to do with the mainstream at all - it's a mindset and emotional response, often rationalized with logic, of fully embracing the thoughts of the group you identify with most (not always a bad thing but often carries the potential for bad things).

So to me, YOU can be a mainstream thinker just like someone who believes everything he sees on FOX News can be a mainstream thinker just like a feminist can be a mainstream thinker.

The characteristics followers share is transferable from belief system to belief system. Being mainstream has zero to do with the ideas embraced and everything to do with the style of thought, character, and behavior. And those that go to extremes are often just those who overinvest in the group, for whatever reason.

In fact, this basic flaw in human character is at the root of both the tyrranny of the majority AND they tyranny of minority so feared by the Fathers of the Constitution - unrelated issue, but it's an example of just how entrenched this shit is in the human psyche and human history.

This is also why I always find it hilarious when people pretend bikers or gangsters are some kind of rebels or living some redpill life. No, they're not. The vast majority of them are just followers who just stumbled into a life that is different than the life most other followers stumble into. They are often the worst of the followers because they will do anything to remain part of the group and most are completely incapable of taking their own path.

Back to the subject at hand.

Me saying men like you have resorted to a lot of the same extremist fallacies as extreme feminists has NOTHING to do with Young Turks or anyone else in this world. Nor is it any kind of shaming tactic (shamers have a group to shame you back into - I do not). It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that some of the logical jumps I see in the manosphere are the same logical jumps I see extreme feminists (or other extremists) make. Period.

In fact, I've been stating this opinion that some people in this space (manosphere not just the forum) have lost themselves for quite some time, so this isn't sparked by this video by any means. I've noticed lately others have come around to recognize the same thing over the past year, and I'm thankful for that. In case there is any doubt, I still see a lot of value in the men and ideas here too, or I wouldn't still be here. And I don't fear men losing themselves in extremes because I give a shit what people think - I care because I would rather see them find themselves.

Bottom line is this - you lose me completely when you insinuate I have a "holier than thou" attitude for daring to suggest a poster has gone overboard when he says he can't blame a guy for shooting a woman in the back with zero basis for making that suggestion.

Not to rag on Ziltoid any more than is necessary but rather to defend my assertion against yours - this is an emotional, illogical jump no matter how you paint it. And even if you think it should be given room to breathe, it's most certainly not "holier than thou" to say I agree with the ridiculous video that it is ridiculous.

And by the way, this insinuation from a guy who has been trying to bully and goad other posters to more fully embrace manosphere ideas for ages? You really crack me up.

I'm all for pure independent thought. I live and breathe it. What I am not for is having an illogical, emotional gut reaction to something and immediately trying to cram it into your worldview because it fits your rationalized narrative to do so. To me, that is the polar opposite of independent thought - and I don't care what color of pills you're swallowing.

[Ziltoid]

Quote:

Bottom line is this - you lose me completely when you insinuate I have a "holier than thou" attitude for daring to suggest a poster has gone overboard when he says he can't blame a guy for shooting a woman in the back with zero basis for making that suggestion.

Actually that would be their paraphrasing, and not what I said. I made a rhetorical statement, poorly worded as it may have been, that I was finding it hard to blame the guy for snapping. Under the basis that false allegations in all likelihood may have been leveled against him, and that unemployment really sucks, especially when resulting from probably being fired under unfair circumstances. I went on to elaborate a few posts later that I find it hard to believe this guy was stalking for pussy as a newlywed that took his wife's name.

Maybe I'm an idiot and it will come out that this guy left dead cats in her mailbox and wrote letters about how he wanted to drink her bathwater. Doubt it sincerely, but if that comes out I'll eat my words.

Poorly worded, right or wrong... do you believe that equates to justifying murder?
Do you believe that I think murder is justifiable in this instance, or that this woman deserved to die even if my assumptions about the circumstances here are 100% correct or are even underestimates?

Initiation of violence of any sort is not ever justifiable unless you think your or another person's life is in danger, but you've probably watched youtube videos of a guy punching a smack talker, or read a story about a husband slapping his wife after she went nuclear, and some part of you sympathized. That is a degree of separation from what I said. Does that mean you condone unprovoked violence?

[Beyond Borders]

^ I don't think it's that much of a paraphrase, to be honest, but Ziltoid, it is NOT my intention to drag you back and forth through the dirt on this...

You stated your regret, and I took it at face value. I have no intention to keep harping on you about it or refusing to let it go.

The ONLY reason for the rant above is for Samseau's insinuation I have a "holier than thou" attitude or am seeking some kind of mainstream favor because of my response to what you said and the video focusing on it. Him doing that makes him guilty of what he is accusing me of, in my opinion, so I felt an obligation to rant.

I actually do condone violence in a lot of scenarios (though not at this level in this type of scenario), and my life doesn't have to be in danger either. But a lot of what you were/are saying is based on...nothing. Only because you are asking what I think, here it is...

What I see is a man stretching for assumptions that fit what he already thinks or feels, whether you were fully serious about those statements or not.

Again, I don't want to keep rehashing this or dragging out what you said. I think they unfairly zeroed in on it, and I don't think that in a real world situation you actually believe this woman deserved to die.

But I do think that your poor choice of words was very poor and that there is some misguided thinking in there whether you like it or not. I think that there is a part of you, as there is a part of many men in this space, that immediately starts seeking ways the woman could have been wrong as soon as you hear about a situation where a man commits a violent act against a woman - or any situation where the two sexes collide and the details are still murky.

That's no different than a woman assuming a man is immediately guilty of rape without any evidence to base it on. You're giving the man the benefit of the doubt even in an extreme case like this, and you're fishing for more details to support your story instead of waiting for more details that indicate what happened.

You are far from the only one to be doing this. But that's a dangerous way to think and implies you are thinking with your gut more than your mind.

I don't want to kick a dead horse to pieces here - but that's what I see when I see these types of posts.

[Beyond Borders]

Note that I accidentally wrote "You are by far the only one to be doing this" when I meant to write "You are far from the only one to be doing this."

That changes the meaning of what I meant to say considerably, so I wanted to make sure you caught my edit before you took it wrong and took offense as a result.

[TheWastelander]

In criminal cases it's prudent to wait until the facts come out in their entirety before trying to figure out why someone did something.

Otherwise you run the risk of looking foolish if you're wrong, like the hordes of tribalists and SJWs who jumped to conclusions about Martin, Brown, etc. shootings or the feminists who automatically assume a rape has occurred just because a girl says it has.

[Veloce]

Damn, can't say I can remember seeing individual posters on the forum being quoted and referenced by these media outlets. I wonder if this will become more commonplace.

That chick in the TYT video couldn't be more shrill. I wonder if anyone on their team gives them pointers or constructive criticism, because their diction and ability to form effective analysis is extremely poor. I get the sense that there's a lack of intellectual fomentation, like it's just a team with everyone sharing the same position on everything. At least here we have countering ideas and conflict.

Anytime you include footage of a shrill woman saying, "This makes me so angry!" you've just positioned the piece into something less than an op-ed. At that point it's like watching a B student in the sophomore high school debate team wring her little hands in frustration and lose her cool because she's not able to adequately express herself. Even if her position is objectively "wrong", at least be able to say something that effectively criticizes your opponent rather than, "THIS IS SO FUCKED UP!" How do they expect people to take them seriously with this amateur level of discourse?

We're an internet forum. We have the freedom to be right or wrong so long as we follow a fairly simple guideline about what to post. They on the other hand are a youtube channel with 2+mil followers and a production team. You'd think they'd try a little harder to be more polished.

[Ziltoid]

(06-17-2015 10:21 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

Damn, can't say I can remember seeing individual posters on the forum being quoted and referenced by these media outlets. I wonder if this will become more commonplace.

As I recall it happened after the anorexia blowup, and I think it also happened again after the Elliot Rodger thread.

@Beyond Borders: Wasn't under the impression that you're trying to throw me under the bus, just felt compelled to respond. I agree the post was not my finest moment and that people not familiar with our shorthand and tropes could interpret it as support for this guy going postal. This has been a humbling experience and will for sure make me more carefully consider my posts here in the future, I have been on somewhat of a negative bent lately, something I'll also be keeping in mind to rectify. This place is arguably the face of red pill, and I don't want to tarnish that. I was a clueless newcomer here once, not long ago, and seeing some poster debatably defending murder might have made me reconsider reading any further.

That said, I dunno man... I remain skeptical that a cynical outlook on these events is completely uncalled for or illogical. Not saying it's entirely comparable, but do you disagree with the maxim that "all public rape allegations are false"?

[Beyond Borders]

^ I assume you already know my answer, but yes, I disagree that all public rape allegations are false.

[Ziltoid]

I guess you know who to take that one up with, then.

[Beyond Borders]

Nope. Should I?

[Ziltoid]

[Beyond Borders]

Ziltoid, what relevance does this have to what you wanted to talk about?