[OSL]

Calling all my bodybuilders, MMA fighters, and high intensity athletes....I'm going to be doing hardcore Muay Thai in Thailand for about 3-4 months and will be stocking up on supplements in Bangkok before I head over to Phuket.

My priorities are fat loss, muscle retention (I'm bulky and tend to put on both muscle and fat quickly), and quick recovery.

I figure I need the following:

-Glutamine
-Creatine
-Multivitamins
-Glucosamine (joints)
-Whey (maybe, there are chicken skewers everywhere in Thailand)

Thoughts?

Again - fat loss, muscle retention, quick recovery times.

[OSL]

I estimate that I am currently at around 20-22 percent body fat.

I will be averaging around 4 hours of muay thai daily, 5 days a week. I will supplement with weight training and yoga.

This regimen will go on for at least 3 months, possibly four.

I'm hoping to have a six pack at the end of this.

[amistod]

I really look forward to hearing the results. Good Luck!

[Moma]

(05-30-2011 11:39 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

Calling all my bodybuilders, MMA fighters, and high intensity athletes....I'm going to be doing hardcore Muay Thai in Thailand for about 3-4 months and will be stocking up on supplements in Bangkok before I head over to Phuket.

My priorities are fat loss, muscle retention (I'm bulky and tend to put on both muscle and fat quickly), and quick recovery.

I figure I need the following:

-Glutamine
-Creatine
-Multivitamins
-Glucosamine (joints)
-Whey (maybe, there are chicken skewers everywhere in Thailand)

Thoughts?

Again - fat loss, muscle retention, quick recovery times.

Add some high potency B-complex to the mix also..

[OSL]

Anyone have experience with creatine?

That's the only one in the mix I've never tried. I feel like, in combination with muay thai and tropic heat, I'm going to have to be drinking 2 gallons of water a day.

[Moma]

(05-31-2011 10:30 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

Anyone have experience with creatine?

That's the only one in the mix I've never tried. I feel like, in combination with muay thai and tropic heat, I'm going to have to be drinking 2 gallons of water a day.

I tried it back in the days. Shyt was bananas. Strength endurance went waaay up, I only stopped working out because I logically felt I was doing too much, I didn't feel tired at all and I would play ball and then go home and pound the shyt out of my girlfriend (who accused me of being on some kind of steroids muhuahahah), muscles looked real fiendish, scared off males and attracted females with a mere flash of the guns.

Advice: Take it with white grape juice or cranberry juice for maximal effect.
The juice serves as a transport system and funnels the creatine straight to your muscles. Your workout will be INSANE.
Taking it with water is a waste of time.

[OSL]

Thanks. Should I be worried about the heat in Thailand in combination with 4 hours of muay thai and creatine? Or is this something that proper hydration will offset?

[OSL]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mma_reco...ements.htm

[CJ]

(05-31-2011 10:38 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Advice: Take it with white grape juice or cranberry juice for maximal effect.
The juice serves as a transport system and funnels the creatine straight to your muscles. Your workout will be INSANE.
Taking it with water is a waste of time.

Why is it a waste of time to take it with water? I used to occasionally take that stuff too back when I was more psycho about working out, and IIRC I took it either with water or mixed into a shake. I definitely noticed increased strength and muscle though.

My exercise history is a typical case of "off and on" pending on what else is going on in my life. I'll usually workout for a couple months straight, then life happens and I stop, or I just feel good about where my body is at and stop. Anyhow, during an "on" phase last fall, I remember working out like a mad man with a buddy. I took creatine before one workout and didn't even think about it. Then the next time I did that same workout I forgot to take it, and the workout was definitely much more grueling and I felt my muscles give up much faster.

[Sammy]

(05-31-2011 11:26 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

Thanks. Should I be worried about the heat in Thailand in combination with 4 hours of muay thai and creatine? Or is this something that proper hydration will offset?

I've been lifting weights for about nine years now, so I guess I'll wade in. It's been a while since I did any research, since I found a set of stuff that works for me, so I may be a little rusty on the science, but all of this is tried and tested.

Essential supplements:

1) Whey protein (chicken on skewer is not the same) - I'm a big fan of Optimum Nutrition, it's a good blend. And not too expensive, and tastes pretty good when mixed with water. If you're not taking whey, don't take creatine. Simple as.

2) Creatine - Green Magnitude by Controlled Labs is the way to go. If you are going to take creatine in a tropical environment, make sure you drink a load of water. Depending on how much you sweat, a gallon is probably about right. Ideally, your piss should always be crystal clear.

3) Multivitamin - Orange Triad by Controlled Labs if you want to spend the money, but I've always found supermarket multi's to be just fun.

You might want to consider some kind of energy drink. T-Nation's Spike is easily the best one out there, but it is expensive and not that easy to export anywhere from the USA. Sugar Free Red Bull is a good stand by. (Don't get the sugary option.)

No experience with glucosamine. And glutamine has always been a complete waste of money in my experience.

Any other questions I'm happy to help out. I'm in rural China right now and getting on the board is problematic (damn communists) so I may take a couple of days to reply.

[Sammy]

(05-31-2011 11:40 AM)CJ Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 10:38 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Advice: Take it with white grape juice or cranberry juice for maximal effect.
The juice serves as a transport system and funnels the creatine straight to your muscles. Your workout will be INSANE.
Taking it with water is a waste of time.

Why is it a waste of time to take it with water? I used to occasionally take that stuff too back when I was more psycho about working out, and IIRC I took it either with water or mixed into a shake. I definitely noticed increased strength and muscle though.

My exercise history is a typical case of "off and on" pending on what else is going on in my life. I'll usually workout for a couple months straight, then life happens and I stop, or I just feel good about where my body is at and stop. Anyhow, during an "on" phase last fall, I remember working out like a mad man with a buddy. I took creatine before one workout and didn't even think about it. Then the next time I did that same workout I forgot to take it, and the workout was definitely much more grueling and I felt my muscles give up much faster.

That's impossible, creatine doesn't work like that. It was probably to do with your meal timings, sleep patterns or psychosomatic.

[mikeymike]

(05-31-2011 11:47 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 11:26 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

Thanks. Should I be worried about the heat in Thailand in combination with 4 hours of muay thai and creatine? Or is this something that proper hydration will offset?

I've been lifting weights for about nine years now, so I guess I'll wade in. It's been a while since I did any research, since I found a set of stuff that works for me and have moved in, so I may be a little rusty on the science, but all of this has worked for me.

Essential supplements:

1) Whey protein (chicken on skewer is not the same) - I'm a big fan of Optimum Nutrition, it's a good blend. And not too expensive, and tastes pretty good when mixed with water. If you're not taking whey, don't take creatine. Simple as.

2) Creatine - Green Magnitude by Controlled Labs is the way to go. If you are going to take creatine in a tropical environment, make sure you drink a load of water. Depending on how much you sweat, a gallon is probably about right. Ideally, your piss should always be crystal clear.

3) Multivitamin - Orange Triad by Controlled Labs if you want to spend the money, but I've always found supermarket multi's to be just fun.

You might want to consider some kind of energy drink. T-Nation's Spike is easily the best one out there, but it is expensive and not that easy to export anywhere from the USA. Sugar Free Red Bull is a good stand by. (Don't get the sugary option.)

No experience with glucosamine. And glutamine has always been a complete waste of money in my experience.

Any other questions I'm happy to help out. I'm in rural China right now and getting on the board is problematic (damn communists) so I may take a couple of days to reply.

I disagree with a couple points:

natural whole foods beat out protein powders any day, the problem is most people cannot take in that much food but if you can get chicken and it's cooked healthy which a skewer unless slathered in sauces is you're getting a more efficient source of protein so if you can take in enough to not warrant pounding shakes it's only to your benefit. If your protein intake is low and you want to supplement the protein, i'd go with trueprotein.com they supply most of the nutrition companies and you're not paying for their advertising and special labels etc, you get the highest quality protein for the best pricing. Heading to the local gnc or whatever to get protein is a sure way to get inferior protein at a higher cost. I'd recommend the team skip formula as it has a mix of quicker burning proteins and slower burning proteins. If you want a strict isolate you cant go wrong with the dc mix I use both myself. If you can swing it the lean beef aminos are sick, not the cheapest protein source but it'll keep you lean while giving you one of the most efficient sources of protein you can take in. You'll need almost a bottle every 2 days tho and at 15 a bottle it adds up. In the protein world, you need to know what you're paying for, there's no regulation and a company can get away with cutting major corners for profit so stick to a company like tp to get what you're paying for. I know I sound like a shill but trust me after pissing away a lot of money for protein thru the years your body knows the difference and it responds. I literally spent 400 bucks there 5 minutes ago on loads of protein and lbas.

Creatines a solid product and as others have said water intake is key, if you're able to put on muscle quickly it's probably not necessary but it's not going to hurt you either. As for brand, I haven't touched it in years so I can't help you there but I use true protein almost exlusively for my supps and they're yet to do me wrong.

Multis are always a good idea. No real need to overspend here, you're going to piss out a chunk of it anyway so focus on getting one with everything you need.

Glutamine is not a waste, it's incredibly effective at helping you recover which when you're pushing your body everyday in a camp environment is going to be an asset and I'd say a must have.

Others I'd recommend:

A high concentration omega 3 product, I take 4 grams a day in fish oil caps and supplement it with krill oil. It'll help with the joints and your skin will benefit too and that's on top of documented hdl benefits.

I also like Niacin for it's hdl benefits.

You could add a fat burner product, standard eca is effective, you'll need to hydrate but it will help you burn quicker and does help you push through cardio a lot easier but like I said hydrate or you'll be fighting cramps.

[Moma]

(05-31-2011 11:40 AM)CJ Wrote:  

Why is it a waste of time to take it with water? I used to occasionally take that stuff too back when I was more psycho about working out, and IIRC I took it either with water or mixed into a shake. I definitely noticed increased strength and muscle though.

My exercise history is a typical case of "off and on" pending on what else is going on in my life. I'll usually workout for a couple months straight, then life happens and I stop, or I just feel good about where my body is at and stop. Anyhow, during an "on" phase last fall, I remember working out like a mad man with a buddy. I took creatine before one workout and didn't even think about it. Then the next time I did that same workout I forgot to take it, and the workout was definitely much more grueling and I felt my muscles give up much faster.

Taking it with white grape juice WILL serve as an insulin spike and take your workouts through the roof. EVERYONE who has heeded my tip has come back and said "Moma, that was INSAAANE".

It's worked EVERY TIME for me.
I tried it once with water and the workout was shyt.

[Kid Strangelove]

Hey Moma what was your preferred creatine brand?

[mikeymike]

(05-31-2011 12:43 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 11:40 AM)CJ Wrote:  

Why is it a waste of time to take it with water? I used to occasionally take that stuff too back when I was more psycho about working out, and IIRC I took it either with water or mixed into a shake. I definitely noticed increased strength and muscle though.

My exercise history is a typical case of "off and on" pending on what else is going on in my life. I'll usually workout for a couple months straight, then life happens and I stop, or I just feel good about where my body is at and stop. Anyhow, during an "on" phase last fall, I remember working out like a mad man with a buddy. I took creatine before one workout and didn't even think about it. Then the next time I did that same workout I forgot to take it, and the workout was definitely much more grueling and I felt my muscles give up much faster.

Taking it with white grape juice WILL serve as an insulin spike and take your workouts through the roof. EVERYONE who has heeded my tip has come back and said "Moma, that was INSAAANE".

It's worked EVERY TIME for me.
I tried it once with water and the workout was shyt.

Citrus fruits have been known to cause drug interaction issues so it's quite possible it works as a better carrier or the enzymes that delay breakdown of meds maybe has the same effect on the creatine. I've never really researched it, I'll have to see what I can find out about that

[OSL]

Given all the feedback I've gotten here and from bodybuilding and MMA forums, I think I'm gonna go with:

-Whey
-BCAAs
-Glutamine
-Creatine
-Multivitamin
-L-Carnitine

I'm hesitant to use an ECA. I know for sure that it's effective but something about combining ECAs with the muay thai training and all that heat doesn't seem like a good idea.

I'm going to average about 4-6 hours of high intensity interval training a day. I think that by itself is going to cover my fat loss goals, combined with a nutritious diet.

[mikeymike]

(05-31-2011 01:26 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

Given all the feedback I've gotten here and from bodybuilding and MMA forums, I think I'm gonna go with:

-Whey
-BCAAs
-Glutamine
-Creatine
-Multivitamin
-L-Carnitine

I'm hesitant to use an ECA. I know for sure that it's effective but something about combining ECAs with the muay thai training and all that heat doesn't seem like a good idea.

I'm going to average about 4-6 hours of high intensity interval training a day. I think that by itself is going to cover my fat loss goals, combined with a nutritious diet.

agreed, the eca is probably overkill but it depends on the individual so I threw it out there. When we used to train for hockey we lived on this shit, it was impossible to go all out every day without some pick me ups but you'll be doing more than enough to not need it.

I'd look seriously at the fish oil, it's cheap and the benefits it provides are numerous. The body works most efficiently with the inclusion of healthy fats.

Good luck with your goal, and your trip sounds like it's gonna be a blast.

[solo]

Really inspiring workout program I must say. I did a similar thing about 7 years ago - only I went skiing in the Alps for about 4 months and came back really fit.
If you're worried about the heat - make sure you get enough salt an other minerals. If you lack in those the body won't hydrate well no matter how much water you drink. Im sure you can find a simple effervescent tablet for this, it can be used in tropic climates and ti help against diarrea and vomiting too.

[OSL]

any tips about how to get an energy boost without ECA, crack, yabaa, meth etc

"pick me ups" as you put it

[thegmanifesto]

What brands do you guys recommend?

[Moma]

(05-31-2011 01:04 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

Hey Moma what was your preferred creatine brand?

This was when I lived in the UK, I took it many many years ago, I am terribly sorry but I can't remember.

I also used to load. When I do things, I like to do them by the book so I get optimal results.

So you can try loading and funnel it with white grape juice (not red but white). Or cranberry juice. Don't ask me why. I didn't either. I just followed the example and scared off dudes and closed lizards on pure intimidation.

[Moma]

(05-31-2011 01:51 PM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

any tips about how to get an energy boost without ECA, crack, yabaa, meth etc

"pick me ups" as you put it

B-complex works amazingly. Take a high potency brand and monitor the results. It's the same shyt they put into these hyper pick me up drinks with caffeine for jitters. I take a b vitamin or rotate a b-complex and I haven't used an energy booster or caffeine for a solid decade now.

It can even keep your dyck hard so you can maintain sufferage on those tacky lizards.

One of my Hong Kong friends (lives here now) was suffering from a severe lack of energy. He played (and still plays) a lot of football (soccer). He hit up some B-complex and now he is cooking and has been ever since.

[Docter]

Your goals:

1) Fat loss: Obviously, you could just cut calories. I hate counting calories though so my first recommendation would be to lower carbohydrate intake as (simplified) carbs lead to sugar which leads to fat storage. I'm not sure how intense your workouts will be but you probably don't need a truckload of carbs (I actually train fasted and I'm currently running a ketogenic diet though I am heavier on the protein).

check out http://www.leangains.com he's got a pretty interesting take on things but I've recently parted ways with his methodology.

2) Muscle retention: If you are working out, don't worry about it. Your muscles don't atrophy unless you really don't use them. That's why maintaining muscle is easier than putting it on.

3) Quick Recovery: Firstly, don't worry about over-training. Mostly a myth. I have two rules regarding training:
A) Lift Heavy Shit
B) Stay out of the pain cave
Pain =/= soreness. Soreness is an obvious side-effect of lifting weight (lactic acid and what-not, but I haven't actually looked into the science of soreness in awhile). Pain is your body telling you something is fucked up (but I'm sure you knew that).

Check out ChaosandPain.blogspot.com. His attitude toward working out is hilariously entertaining as well as scientifically proofed. He does his research.

I agree with his supplement ideology (that you don't need most of that crap). The only thing I recommend is A) protein because it's difficult to eat enough of it through food (but since you're not looking for muscle gain I'm not sure you need too much) and B) A multi. I take a regular multi but on some training days I'll use an Animal Pak multi-vitamin (http://www.animalpak.com/html/sections.cfm?ID=7) which is every vitamin you'll ever need and 400 times the amount of it you'll ever want. I literally had a body high once when I took that without food, it was insane.

As you always should, get your fucking sleep. If anything, make sure you get your sleep. Super important.

P.S. I read somewhere that the company that owns Mens Health produces a lot of the vitamins and supplements they push.

---
On another note, muay thai sounds awesome. Have you ever seen Tony Jaa's movies? (ong bak/the protector)
---

Edit: @Mikeymike read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naringin. Naringin is the culprit behind the "citrus bonus."

[CJ]

(05-31-2011 11:51 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 11:40 AM)CJ Wrote:  

(05-31-2011 10:38 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Advice: Take it with white grape juice or cranberry juice for maximal effect.
The juice serves as a transport system and funnels the creatine straight to your muscles. Your workout will be INSANE.
Taking it with water is a waste of time.

Why is it a waste of time to take it with water? I used to occasionally take that stuff too back when I was more psycho about working out, and IIRC I took it either with water or mixed into a shake. I definitely noticed increased strength and muscle though.

My exercise history is a typical case of "off and on" pending on what else is going on in my life. I'll usually workout for a couple months straight, then life happens and I stop, or I just feel good about where my body is at and stop. Anyhow, during an "on" phase last fall, I remember working out like a mad man with a buddy. I took creatine before one workout and didn't even think about it. Then the next time I did that same workout I forgot to take it, and the workout was definitely much more grueling and I felt my muscles give up much faster.

That's impossible, creatine doesn't work like that. It was probably to do with your meal timings, sleep patterns or psychosomatic.

Oh ok, you're probably right. Like I said, I haven't taken creatine much. Now I wonder what or when I ate that day, so I can replicate that.

[Gunner]

Look, if you want to cut fat you don't need creatine. Plan:

Protein, Gaspari Nutrition MyoFusion, good blend not just pure whey.

VPX Meltdown or Redlien, the first one if you want to control hungry and the second one if you want more energy; both burn fat.

Glutamine, whatever good brand(ON, Dymatizse, VPX)

Multivitamin, Centrum performance works ok.

Fish Oil, try GNC salmon oil 1000

CLA and ALA, whatever good brand.

Thank me at the end of your regime.