[Chick Magnet]

To the OP...

If you want to live abroad, do it right. ESL teaching isn't a career. Intl. schools aren't much better.

But why spend all that time getting qualifications for a poorly-paid job 'working for the man'...when you could build your own business?

I suggest you mozy over to the freelance thread, and start picking up some skills. BB has some great advice. Occasionally, I divine some knowledge from the gods as well.

You could be making $3k+ a month easy within a few months self-study and hardwork. More than enough to live in one of those yellow-fever locales. Get at it.

[RawGod]

I've quit a PhD program on a scholarship (not STEM) to go teach English abroad. I don't regret it, however I was already 30 and going nowhere career-wise. If you are going to a good school and have serious prospects, i.e. you can walk into a decent job and make 100k within a few years, I would recommend staying the course and doing that. It will grow you as a man. You might find that you're not a peon but can actually negotiate the working world as a red pill, masculine man. And that will be great, better than teaching English in Asia, which as others have said, is a dead end career-wise. If you do that, you will have to eventually build up your own business or some other option, and it's not that easy to stay motivated to do that while you have an easy job and plenty of women to play with. But if you just cruise as an English teacher you'll find yourself with no prospects after a few years.

I do have concerns about your mindset right now if watching a movie has made you question your life path. Again, if you are genuinely on track to be in the top 10% (good school and good STEM job) then fucking knuckle down and get that job. Do it well. At least for 5 years. If you quit after that, you'll be what, 27? Great time to go to Asia, start your business, whatever. You'll have grown a lot and saved some money.

[Barron]

(06-05-2015 05:20 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

Sorry, but that's just not accurate. There are 320 Million people in the United States, many from other countries, probably a 100 Million speak a language besides English, and there are more than 300 cities with a population of 100,000 or greater.

You can get what you want, where you want.

So many options and cultures and ethnicities in the United States.

If you want notches, you can get notches. If you want an LTR, you can get an LTR.

If you can't get what you want in the United States, you should probably look in the mirror to find the source of your difficulties instead of pointing the finger at some intangible failing of the "anglosphere."

When you are red pill and have made a good effort at self improvement, your results will be good whatever your goal and location is. Sure, peaks and troughs happen, but you will not be given to hyperbole, or seek salvation in some imaginary shangri la just over the horizon. Where you are is where life happens.

I'm happy you made this response because I failed to address this is my previous post.

Everything you stated about the population and there being a variety of options and cultures in the US and that it all depends on being red pill and self-evolved enough to make your happiness anywhere is very logical and sound... on paper. The reality is that there are factors which effect a man's happiness that are beyond his control.

Let's take Roosh for example, he's traveled the world and made a living off of doing what he loves. By your logic Roosh should be able to create the happiness he desires anywhere he resides. When he came back to the US and did the Dr. Oz show while in NY guys on here were talking about how great it was to hang with Roosh and how awesome he was at bars flirting up girls and laying down game. Where your argument breaks down is the fact that Roosh prefers to spend most of his time in eastern Europe despite his ability to enjoy his life at home in the US.

Why does a guy that is location independent and able to enjoy his life in his home country decide to spend most of his time living abroad (and it's not only Roosh we're talking about)? It's because there is something that foreign land can offer him which he cannot find at home. And it's that thing which brings him the happiness that eludes him at home.

[tomtud]

My advice is to check out YouTube videos and blogs of teachers who actually are in the country you plan on going to. Also check out daveseslcafe.com
( forum, lesson plan ideas and material and job listings)
You will get to travel to other places you may have never had the chance to had you took the typical career of a stem graduate.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(06-05-2015 06:25 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

I'm happy you made this response because I failed to address this is my previous post.

Everything you stated about the population and there being a variety of options and cultures in the US and that it all depends on being red pill and self-evolved enough to make your happiness anywhere is very logical and sound... on paper. The reality is that there are factors which effect a man's happiness that are beyond his control.

Let's take Roosh for example, he's traveled the world and made a living off of doing what he loves. By your logic Roosh should be able to create the happiness he desires anywhere he resides. When he came back to the US and did the Dr. Oz show while in NY guys on here were talking about how great it was to hang with Roosh and how awesome he was at bars flirting up girls and laying down game. Where your argument breaks down is the fact that Roosh prefers to spend most of his time in eastern Europe despite his ability to enjoy his life at home in the US.

Why does a guy that is location independent and able to enjoy his life in his home country decide to spend most of his time living abroad (and it's not only Roosh we're talking about)? It's because there is something that foreign land can offer him which he cannot find at home. And it's that thing which brings him the happiness that eludes him at home.

You either didn't read my post well, or are deliberately misstating what my point is.

I never said that living outside of the USA was a bad option, or that living in the USA was a superior option.

Any place is what you make of it. Wherever you go there you are.

Roosh's experience of NYC was a direct result of the choices he made while there. His experiences in eastern europe likewise are a direct result of the choices he makes while there.

Going to country X,Y, or Z isn't going to magically make you into a different or better or happier person. Change takes work.

[TheBulldozer]

Chick Magnet,

You're right. I was making generalizations, namely at the OP. You are a Third Culture Kid. I'm sure you know the term and understand some of the unique experiences you've had and the different ways in which you view the world.

[Chick Magnet]

MaleDefined,

Yea, I'm sure there are decent gigs to be found in intl. schools. And the perks are good as far as jobs go. That said, most intl teachers I've known were a pretty miserable lot. Constantly complaining about the school admin, parents, bratty kids,etc.

Personally, I could never handle working for the man. And I found the educational setting to be even more stifling.

It really depends on how you're 'built'. I'm a creative with major authority figure issues. Teaching kids rudimentary stuff would never fulfil me.

It's up to the OP to decide what kind of guy he is.

[TheBulldozer]

(06-05-2015 10:54 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  

MaleDefined,

Yea, I'm sure there are decent gigs to be found in intl. schools. And the perks are good as far as jobs go. That said, most intl teachers I've known were a pretty miserable lot. Constantly complaining about the school admin, parents, bratty kids,etc.

Personally, I could never handle working for the man. And I found the educational setting to be even more stifling.

It really depends on how you're 'built'. I'm a creative with major authority figure issues. Teaching kids rudimentary stuff would never fulfil me.

It's up to the OP to decide what kind of guy he is.

You're right. Most international schools are large with more of a 'cog in a wheel' feel.

Someone naieve would say I'm lucky to be working at a place where work doesn't feel like work.

However, I've identified the type of environments I do well in, and rather than someone picking me for the job, I selected the environment I'd do best in, in this case a small school that feels more like a startup company than a bureaucratic cesspool. I had offers from schools larger in size, but had no interest in them.

[Switch]

If you can work at a western international school, do it. The pay is good, lots of time off, and the kids you work with and the parents that send them there really are the cream of the crop.

Like MaleDefined said, there is a huge difference between "teaching abroad" and "teaching english abroad. The pay for international school teachers is probably comparable to good teacher pay in the USA. Then you factor in lower cost of living, benefits, and it starts to look like a pretty sweet deal.

[cascadecombo]

(06-05-2015 05:40 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  

(06-05-2015 10:18 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Understand and consider your decision. Understand who you are and what you truly want from your life. Pull off the kid gloves and have an open conversation with yourself, about yourself, unencumbered by the whimsical ideal of a Hollywood movie.

Good post. But you're generalizing a bit on the expat experience.

Not all of us are as entrenched into one way of life, or thinking.

I don't have a "home" as you put it. My family is scattered across 4 continents, I hold 3 different passports, and speak 3 different languages natively.

I've had to reinvent myself several times...out of sheer necessity. For me, the grass IS definitely greener abroad. I feel most "at home" when hanging out with an expat crowd.

The locals in every country I've lived in (the U.S especially) are too parochial for me to relate too. Anybody who's had an international upbringing can likely understand what I'm saying.

But sure, if you lived your whole life in one town...and suddenly uproot yourself...I could see why living abroad would be a mixed bag for you.

I'd have to agree with the generalizations. Going abroad will remove you from all your current friends and safe spots. Some people, those who are too weak minded to go out and meet new people and create/join new social groups ( those don't seem like the type of people who visit this forum) will become entrenched in their safe habits/hobbies. For those who are capable of going out and doing things with their lives, going abroad can be one of the best things they can do with their life.

My family is not quite as scattered as yours is, but as far as having no "home" I am of the same mind. My home is wherever I desire it to be, not based on where I would have spent 18 years growing up.

Op should definitely check out some teaching abroad forums. But for the most part teaching English abroad is usually a dead end or at best has a very low ceiling. So long as he knows what he is getting into, he could very easily go abroad for a year or two and then go back home and get a job with his STEM degree.

[Felix 5000]

.......

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

It is possible to find STEM careers that involve extensive international travel. You might want to position yourself to do this. I'm concerned that taking a job teaching English as a foreign language will squander the STEM master's you are just finishing up. I know a guy who went into international oil work straight out of college, and is bouncing all over Europe and the whole African continent right now. Of course, he married an older woman with two kids, but that's a separate story. He posts on Facebook from a constant stream of exotic locations.

I would recommend staying with a STEM based career, for the sake of resume development, unless you are burned out on STEM from your grad school experience and want leave it behind you for good. I think that career development is a critical goal, that many men fuck up. I know I did.

It's best to carefully craft a resume by choosing jobs that will give you experience in the most marketable skills, and building a chain of jobs that show a desirable progression in experience and responsibility. The highest paying jobs are often very specialized, and it takes years of work in a certain industry, taking stints in different subspecialties, until you are at a high level in that field. There are examples of people who have gotten with taking time away from the career track, but there is a price to be paid, and it takes luck and skill to get away with it. If you break away from the standard resume enhancing STEM career track, be sure to do it with a plan in mind of how you will achieve your ultimate career goals.

A red pill man can hustle, build a nest egg and grow it, and be location independent, so it is possible to break away from the standard career track. However, some desirable career fields simply won't allow this. What are your long term goals?

[Phoenix]

I'd be more than happy to leave a high-paying career in Australia for basically anything that can pay the bills in Asia. Money isn't worth anything if you've got nothing worth spending it on.

The obvious ideal is earning in the West and spending in the East (or SouthAm), but this has already been discussed heavily. It is basically ultimate success.

As far as I've seen, it is either achieved temporally (e.g. the oil sands guys), online (skilled and high reputation online contractors), or by business. The biggest winners are always the businessmen, without exception. Every story I've heard of an envious life has been of men who successfully built a business and lived in the non-west. The model was typically 'build until self-sustaining and slowly reduce your personal management input', by devolving and automating, or hiring a GM.

[Matelot]

It is definitely possible to find STEM careers that involve international travel. Off the top of my head I can think of;

Oil & Gas, Mining (lots of scope for physics and engineering work)
Merchant Marine/Cruise ships/Super yachts (marine engineer, comms, electrical engineer)
Telecomms Engineer (fixed, radio, satellite, subsea networks)
Military (any engineering, IT, comms)
Lots of threads on here about the Merchant Marine, Military, Oil sands etc...

I've bounced between several of these fields for the same reason.

I'd exhaust all of these options before looking at ESL. By all means try ESL for a year but you have the ticket to a career in a STEM field which can provide travel and a much higher salary. Why work in one country when you can work in a dozen per year and get paid twice as much?

[atlant]

I think doing a year's worth of ESL (maybe even two if you really love it) is a no-brainer for any man in his 20s. The problem is that it can make you too comfortable and complacent depending on your personality type. Here in Taiwan there's plenty of bitter old dudes who got a little too cozy, perhaps even fell into a marriage with a local girl and after 10-15 years are now stuck here in perpetuity with no chance of resurrecting their career in the West. I'm guessing it isn't much different in Japan and China.

Teachers are definitely considered losers here but still plenty of girls willing to bang them, and you can make up for it with good game.

That said, OP's writing suggests to me a bit of a "running away" mindset. Romanticizing ESL teaching as "escaping the rat race" is not a good idea. But what I would do in OP's position is to give it a whirl, perhaps even try to do some networking related to his degree/field in Asia on the side, make the best of it from a personal development perspective - but when it's time to get out, it's time to get out.

[Seadog]

I was in your position 8-9 years ago. Graduated with an engineering degree, wanted to see the world, could honestly take or leave engineering as a job, but found it interesting in it's own right.

I researched jobs that allowed for a lot of travel, gave the teaching English thing a thought, but for reasons mentioned here didn't do it. (low pay, dead end, abroad but still working).

Ended up settling on an oil field service company renowned for int'l assignments. Disappointingly I didn't get one off the bat (Northern AB) nor my first transfer (Southern US). But with luck, timing, and an unspoken threat "Here's what I want and led to believe I'd get, if it's not available now, what if I leave the co and return in 2 years?" I ended up in Asia.

Now, working overseas in the STEM fields isn't nearly as much fun as you'd think. You're not protected by labour laws, you're in the middle of no where with zero creature comforts, and your competition will work for 20% what you're getting so you need to put up. That said after 5+ years, A good month there eclipsed what English Teachers could take home in a year. It got to a point where I literally hated the job, hours and lifestyle (ie none) but on average each month I worked equated to 6 months or so of freedom abroad so I stuck at it. Fortunately I got laid off in Feb, and now at least the next year or two will be travelling, and I really don't have a care in the world.

You need to think, what's your end game? International travel isn't something I see myself getting tired of, so what do you do in two years? Come back here and grind it out with two weeks holiday each year till you're 65?

Mastery by Robert Green is a great book, and the main point is 'get great at anything'. Once that happens you can set the terms. An acquaintance fell in love with Interior Design. Got his Masters in it. Lots of experience. Now he travels the world designing fancy houses and stuff for rich people. Sets his terms, has more work than he wants. Mind you it took him until 35 to do this, but now he's sitting pretty.

[Suits]

(06-04-2015 11:37 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Anyone who decides to teach English abroad isn't doing it for the money.

I'm doing it for the money.

[boss13]

(06-05-2015 05:58 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

I've quit a PhD program on a scholarship (not STEM) to go teach English abroad. I don't regret it, however I was already 30 and going nowhere career-wise. If you are going to a good school and have serious prospects, i.e. you can walk into a decent job and make 100k within a few years, I would recommend staying the course and doing that. ..
If you quit after that, you'll be what, 27? Great time to go to Asia, start your business, whatever. You'll have grown a lot and saved some money.

I've been getting interviews but haven't gotten any offers yet. And I'm already 27

(06-08-2015 06:52 AM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

It is possible to find STEM careers that involve extensive international travel. You might want to position yourself to do this. I'm concerned that taking a job teaching English as a foreign language will squander the STEM master's you are just finishing up. I know a guy who went into international oil work straight out of college, and is bouncing all over Europe and the whole African continent right now..

I would recommend staying with a STEM based career, for the sake of resume development, unless you are burned out on STEM from your grad school experience and want leave it behind you for good. I think that career development is a critical goal, that many men fuck up. I know I did.

It's best to carefully craft a resume by choosing jobs that will give you experience in the most marketable skills, and building a chain of jobs that show a desirable progression in experience and responsibility. The highest paying jobs are often very specialized, and it takes years of work in a certain industry, taking stints in different subspecialties, until you are at a high level in that field. There are examples of people who have gotten with taking time away from the career track, but there is a price to be paid, and it takes luck and skill to get away with it. If you break away from the standard resume enhancing STEM career track, be sure to do it with a plan in mind of how you will achieve your ultimate career goals.

A red pill man can hustle, build a nest egg and grow it, and be location independent, so it is possible to break away from the standard career track. However, some desirable career fields simply won't allow this. What are your long term goals?

As mentioned above, the job search for STEM jobs in the US hasn't gone well. Then again, I'm mostly applying for software engineer and data scientist roles. Also, from what I've heard, its very hard for fresh grads to be able to work in the foreign branches of their companies. One reason is that is your superiors like you, they want you to continue working with them, not go abroad. I've also heard its harder to get expat packages

(06-08-2015 07:18 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I'd be more than happy to leave a high-paying career in Australia for basically anything that can pay the bills in Asia. Money isn't worth anything if you've got nothing worth spending it on.
.. The biggest winners are always the businessmen, without exception.

I don't think having alot of money means you're a winner. I don't want a life where I'm focused on my appearance and social status.

(06-08-2015 07:54 AM)Matelot Wrote:  

It is definitely possible to find STEM careers that involve international travel. Off the top of my head I can think of;

Oil & Gas, Mining (lots of scope for physics and engineering work)
Merchant Marine/Cruise ships/Super yachts (marine engineer, comms, electrical engineer)
Telecomms Engineer (fixed, radio, satellite, subsea networks)
Military (any engineering, IT, comms)
Lots of threads on here about the Merchant Marine, Military, Oil sands etc...

Theres been a major hiring freeze in Oil/gas last I checked. I sent out many resumes to oil/gas companies and heard back from none of them. And I don't want to work for the military since I don't want to get a clearance

(06-08-2015 09:44 AM)atlant Wrote:  

I think doing a year's worth of ESL (maybe even two if you really love it) is a no-brainer for any man in his 20s. The problem is that it can make you too comfortable and complacent depending on your personality type. Here in Taiwan there's plenty of bitter old dudes who got a little too cozy, perhaps even fell into a marriage with a local girl and after 10-15 years are now stuck here in perpetuity with no chance of resurrecting their career in the West. I'm guessing it isn't much different in Japan and China.

Teachers are definitely considered losers here but still plenty of girls willing to bang them, and you can make up for it with good game.

That said, OP's writing suggests to me a bit of a "running away" mindset. Romanticizing ESL teaching as "escaping the rat race" is not a good idea. But what I would do in OP's position is to give it a whirl, perhaps even try to do some networking related to his degree/field in Asia on the side, make the best of it from a personal development perspective - but when it's time to get out, it's time to get out.

yes, I do want to run away from the rat race. Seemed to me thats what American Beauty was trying to say... its better to work at a fast-food joint or sell drugs than be a corporate slave

[Brodiaga]

Have you actually tried working at a fast food joint or say a supermarket? I don't like my corporate job, but my friends who had to settle for low skilled work wish they were me. I also did low skilled work for a short period of time and hated it much more than any office job.

If I were you, I would try very hard to either find a STEM job or start your own business in Asia. Being good at technology and having a STEM degree is like winning a lottery, don't waste it (I don't have a STEM degree btw, but I really wish I had one).

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

Some people seem to have all the luck, but it's not good to plan your life expecting that. The most likely way to get lucky is to work hard in a high income field as a young man, and sock away enough money to live off the income by the time you're 40. If you can develop an income stream as some kind of consultant or specialist, you might be able to retire at 35.

There are lots of guys on this forum and in your daily life who fell into an ideal situation, and are able to quit their jobs and tour Columbia fucking 2-3 girls a day (not a slam on LINUX. God Bless him). However, it's hard to make this plan A, and bring it to reality without needing a plan B or C. Your best bet is to focus on working hard and socking away some money as a young man, and try to maneuver yourself into the dream life over 10-15 years. If you can live the dream life do it, but don't sell out your future with a bad life strategy.

How many guys are there who busted their ass when they were young, and now have the world by the tail in their 30's and 40's?

How many guys are there who fucked off in their 20's, and now are scrambling to make ends meet in their 30's and 40's? A lot more.

My recommendation is to be in the first group. Suck it up as much as you have too. Target a field with a lot of paid travel (I'm on paid travel right now, and living it up). Build up your career and marketable skills, and in a few years, you'll have the whole world at your feet.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(06-08-2015 10:35 PM)boss13 Wrote:  

I don't think having alot of money means you're a winner. I don't want a life where I'm focused on my appearance and social status.


yes, I do want to run away from the rat race. Seemed to me thats what American Beauty was trying to say... its better to work at a fast-food joint or sell drugs than be a corporate slave

You are a scientist right? Well, correlation doesn't equal causation.
Just because some people with money suck, doesn't mean that the money causes their suckiness.


You also are suffering from selection bias and basing your opinions on movie characters and the popular press' depiction of thieving bankers and financial criminals.

Anyhow, you are basing your emotions on a fucking movie. In real life, the people I know who are economically successful and of high social status have great lives. They travel where they want, have huge social circles, and they feel alive. Fun people to know, fun people to hang out with, great for advice and business connections.

Lastly, working at a fast food place or selling drugs is even worse than an office job. Again, real life is very different from a movie. In real life, when you work at a fast food place, you need to be on food stamps to survive, and you end up living in public housing or in your parent's basement and jerk off by yourself at night as you cry yourself to sleep and wait to take the bus in the morning. In real life, selling drugs is not glamorous. You have to be constantly paranoid about the cops or rival dealers or your supposed friends. Arrest/prison and rip offs (or worse) are a constant danger. The higher up the chain you go in the drug game, the worse it gets. See how much fun it is to meet someone with 6 figures in cash on you and then hope it all goes well and no decides to shoot anyone. And no matter how careful you are, you can get caught in a second because some scumbag that you deal with (and you will 100% have to associate with scumbags in the black market drug business) got caught and decides to rat on you to save his ass. I spent a couple years in California investing in a legal medical marijuana dispensary, lots of time meeting with suppliers in Humboldt, and since there is a huge amount of overlap between the medical marijuana business and the black market marijuana business I got to see all of that.

Honestly, I think you need to pull your head out of your ass. I say that in as friendly a way as possible. In ten years from now you do not want to be broke and without prospects.

[Pokerbaby]

I'm in Poland. I need to clean up some things back in Toronto but I plan to return in 2 months. I'm thinking of teaching English.

Making money is not a big issue. Fortunately I worked and invested in Canada for 15 years so I don't have any immediate money concerns and Poland is cheap.

Is this a good idea? My primary motivation to teaching ESL is to meet Polish girls/women. Is hooking up with your students condoned in Poland or is it some sort of rules violation? Obviously, I can't ask during the job interview

[Blunt]

For OP, you can always go teach ESL. You can't always get a STEM position.

When you graduate you are new and shiny and employers like that. After a few years not in industry your skills deteriorate and now you have to convince people that you don't have some kind of 'issue'.

I would give a STEM position a shot for at least a year and save a lot of money so you have options. The last thing you want is to be really dependent on an ESL school for your bread.

[Moto]

I saw American Sniper, and it made me feel inspired to do something a little different.

Anyways, I've done both ESl and internat'l school teaching. One pays more, one is a lot less stress. I would have to say that international teaching can certainly lead to a lucrative career. After teaching some years you can get your leadership masters and try to be a principal or some other kind of administrator. That can pay pretty damn well. But you need a real teaching license to even begin down that road, not an ESL certificate.

[LeightonBlackstock]

I teach TEFL

Earlier today I chilled out at my condo's rooftop pool

Earlier this week I had a 19 year-old nymph with a Megan-Fox-esque slut face milking my dick with her mouth (I'll PM pics if you think I'm embellishing)

Tomorrow I will go in and make a load of Adult Thai's laugh for the day whilst practising only conversation

I earn the same as a Thai Doctor here, and more than the majority of my students

Furthermore, the weather's hot every day, I eat mangos every morning, there are girls in high heels by the bucketload, beautiful beaches are a short flight away and I whizz to work every morning on the back of a motorcycle grinning.

A little bit of positivity and self-worth will get you far in life, and will land you in a good spot

(A big nose and blonde hair will also help too)

Three years in the TEFL gane, I'm still not seeing why there's so much negaivity surrounding TEFL

And bear in mind, I ditched a 32,000 Pound graduate Engineering job in England