[Brodiaga]

Would you be only location independent or also time zone independent on 60k? If you have to work in the eastern US time zone, you can only comfortably live in the western hemisphere. Living in Europe would be pushing it. Asia is out of the question unless you want to work night shifts.

If I could choose my own hours, I would go for 60K and location independence. Between tax savings and lower cost of living, the quality of life would be much higher on 60K in many cities in Asia compared to 150K in NYC.

There is a lot of hype about NYC on RVF, and it may very well be the best city in the US for young single guys, but big cities in Asia like Manila, Jakarta or Bangkok are 5-10X easier when it comes to getting laid. From what I know, many places in Eastern Europe are also much easier than NY, particularly for guys who look for quality not quantity.

Also, getting from 150K to 300K and above in NY is extremely difficult. One has to be super talented and/or connected, and it takes a lot of time, effort and office politics to get to that level. I'm talking a combination of an Ivy League education, pedigree, work ethic, people skills, ruthlessness and luck. Most people in NY struggle to make ends meet working for 60K or less and will never earn even 150k in today's dollars.

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-19-2015 01:42 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 01:08 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I don't think choices like that occur in a vacuum, for instance, does the 150K job increase your chances of getting a 300K job later, which even in NY would get you into an incredible lifestyle with a top apartment, opera attendance with models, weekends in the Hamptons/ Vermont.....

Does the 60K location independence reduce your chances of later getting the 150K job in NY.

150K in NY with city, state and fed taxes taken out will only be something like 85? 90? and a really nice apartment is at least 3K (36) so people who have lived there can comment on that.

Ummm...not quite. A 300k a year job pre tax does not equal a top apartment + opera with models + weekends in the Hamptons. Double that at least, and more like triple.

If you saved nothing at all, and had no debts to pay off, you might do a low rent version of the above on 300k pre tax. But 300k pre tax is by no means living large in NYC.

A good apartment alone will be 5k a month or more.

If you cut corners, and spent every penny you earned, you might give off the appearance of wealth at 300k/year, but you would be going into debt and not getting ahead.

150k in Manhattan comes out to maybe 90K after Fed, State, City, Fica an Med Care. Throw in health insurance and 401, and that might drop to 84/85

7k a month sounds like a lot of money, until you realize to have a 1-1 in a good part of the Manhattan can easily be 2500-4500,

If it's the better half, subtract a G for transportation, phone, internet, groceries = and you got like 1000-2500 a month in spending money.

It's real easy to drop 250 on yourself on a normal weekend.

This is a worst case scenario, but even if you manage to live like Scrooge and hold on to 5-7 G's a month - you're not popping bottles with celebrities.

Not that you need money to game in NYC, but it's certainly a lot more fun to not be have to worry about running out of money before pay day.

[elcidcampeador]

Realistically, there must be some kind of 'end game' for the location independent crowd. It's all great if you're living in Manila where the 60k gets you the same that the 150k gets you in NYC, but long-term it isn't necessarily the better option.

One must look beyond the ease of lays when considering these things. There are long-term things like health care, family, etc that can't be overlooked, in addition to one's ability to integrate themselves into the local society.

I see this all the time with the guys teaching English in China. They make their 3-4k USD a month, save 1-2k of it and enjoy the easy lifestyle. Then they return home and realize that their salary was equivalent to that of a McDonalds manager in the US and that they have no transferable experience that potential employers desire. This isn't location independence, but it's a similar situation.

Making 60k will get you no respect in modern America as it's the base salary for most name brand firms (my company hires new college grads @65-75+bonus at age 21-22). When you return home from your escapades abroad, your salary will be the same as that of a 21 year old.

It's not such an easy decision to make.

[Robert Plant]

Assuming both jobs require 40 hours of work a week, this is a no brainer for me: $60,000 and location independence. I can think of at least 20 places right off the bat where $60,000 will go much further than NYC, I will be surrounded by much less spoiled, much more pleasant women and there will be amazing nature to play in.

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-19-2015 11:05 PM)elcidcampeador Wrote:  

Realistically, there must be some kind of 'end game' for the location independent crowd. It's all great if you're living in Manila where the 60k gets you the same that the 150k gets you in NYC, but long-term it isn't necessarily the better option.

One must look beyond the ease of lays when considering these things. There are long-term things like health care, family, etc that can't be overlooked, in addition to one's ability to integrate themselves into the local society.

I see this all the time with the guys teaching English in China. They make their 3-4k USD a month, save 1-2k of it and enjoy the easy lifestyle. Then they return home and realize that their salary was equivalent to that of a McDonalds manager in the US and that they have no transferable experience that potential employers desire. This isn't location independence, but it's a similar situation.

Making 60k will get you no respect in modern America as it's the base salary for most name brand firms (my company hires new college grads @65-75+bonus at age 21-22). When you return home from your escapades abroad, your salary will be the same as that of a 21 year old.

It's not such an easy decision to make.

I try to stay up on that crowd and if they're doing it right, say e-commerce or a service business, as opposed to teaching English
- live in what is basically a gated community
- buy what they want within reason
- cheap food, maid, chef, personal trainer, guitar and singing lessons
- cheap entertainment
- status with the local ladies

That's why they called it a "lifestyle business". (geoarbitrage never took off as a term)

Why would they go back to the US to work for a boss, and hope to marry some chubby 6 that will eventually take the kids and half their money?

That's an easy decision to make

WIA

[speakeasy]

(05-19-2015 11:05 PM)elcidcampeador Wrote:  

Making 60k will get you no respect in modern America as it's the base salary for most name brand firms (my company hires new college grads @65-75+bonus at age 21-22). When you return home from your escapades abroad, your salary will be the same as that of a 21 year old.

That's ridiculous. Have you actually looked at what the median income is in America? It's about $27,000 a year. If you go with the lenient average instead of median, it's about $40,000 a year.




Making 60k a year is about what the average American family makes a year(with multiple earners). If you can't survive off 60k a year, then you have spending problems, or you want to live a bling-bling lifestyle. Or live in places that are ridiculously expensive like Manhattan. If you are making 60k and living in a place like Chicago, Austin, Phoenix or Denver, you are fine. Not living large per se, but comfortable.

And come on man, most kids at 21-22 ain't going to be making anything close to 65-75k. They're lucky to even find a job. And when they do half their check is going to the $100,000+ in student loans.

College grads have it pretty bad. The increase in incomes for recent college grads is half what it is for everyone else. This happens while tuition over the same period has exploded.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gr...story.html

Quote:

Salaries for recent college graduates have risen at less than half the pace for all U.S. workers since the recession, an analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco found.

The study, released Monday, found that median earnings for recent college graduates rose only 6% between 2006 and 2013, compared with 15% for the workforce at large.

Such disparities have been seen in previous recessions, but the current trend "is substantially larger and has lasted longer," the report found.

Average college grade is making $43k a year:
http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k-co...-jobs.html

[WanderingSoul]

Speak, is that $43k the average for people fresh out of college? Or for college grads in general?

Also, location independent won't have to pay any taxes on that $60k if he stays out of the US for 330 days per year I believe it is.

[dogthom]

FYI, $60,000 USD in the Philippines would probably put you in the top .001 Percent.

To a sales girl working for $3 a day, you are Bill Gates...

[CodyB]

Funny you mention this because I'm in a similar conundrum right now.

I can walk into a job right now and earn about $120-150K per year in Sydney. That puts me in a position to live will , get a decent unit (that I'd pay off) and then the option of A) Balling and saving less than $10K per year or B) Living frugally and saving $40K per year.

I also have my own business / family business that isn't paying near that. If I work my but off I'll probably net about $60K per year but this business is also reliant on cheap exports from Thailand.

$60K in Thailand get's me a really nice 1BDR apartment on a high floor. Access to the coolest lifestyle I know of, which is fairly cheap as well. ( A lax night out in Bangkok will set me back <$40, even in Sydney that can run up to $100 without booze.) and an OCEAN of the pussy that I'm partial towards.

I really like pussy. I'll probably go with pussy. My skills won't go anywhere, my profession won't go anywhere, after a few years I can walk back into a job I hope.

[CodyB]

(05-20-2015 03:20 AM)dogthom Wrote:  

FYI, $60,000 USD in the Philippines would probably put you in the top .001 Percent.

To a sales girl working for $3 a day, you are Bill Gates...

The top .001% of the Phillipines wealth belongs to a mixture of Chinese Merchant Families and Corrupt Politicians and their descendants. The richest man in the Phillipines is worth $70+ Billion USD, there will be numerous families in Manila that are worth upwards of $50M. Same goes for Bangkok.

You will be upper class for sure but not in the upper echelon.

[lavidaloca]

(05-20-2015 03:43 AM)CodyB Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 03:20 AM)dogthom Wrote:  

FYI, $60,000 USD in the Philippines would probably put you in the top .001 Percent.

To a sales girl working for $3 a day, you are Bill Gates...

The top .001% of the Phillipines wealth belongs to a mixture of Chinese Merchant Families and Corrupt Politicians and their descendants. The richest man in the Phillipines is worth $70+ Billion USD, there will be numerous families in Manila that are worth upwards of $50M. Same goes for Bangkok.

You will be upper class for sure but not in the upper echelon.

100 million people live in the Phillipines. Who cares if there are a 1000 really rich guys. At $60,000 / year post-tax there he will be rich comparatively. Keep in mind almost all people with massive net worths are old and married a young guy on that would live exceptionally well. To be a top 50 richest filipino based on forbes rich list you only need $170 million. A lot for sure but not all that crazy. Of that list 2 guys are under 52 years old.

People forget the age factor when talking about wealthy men. The vast majority of which are 65+ year old men.

[The_CEO]

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/t...00-a-year/

[Aaron-]

The cost of living in NYC is incredibly high compared to other US cities, let alone Eastern Europe or South East Asia cities. The equivalent of $150,000 is approximately $60,000 - $75,000 in second tier US cities. Both salaries mean you will be off reasonably well and you can find a good-looking and fun girl with this salary.

Note that neither $150,000 in New York or $60,000 elsewhere is going to attract 9s or 10s for your money. Every (capital) city that you travel to, 9s and 10s will have plenty of options among the top 1% earners, simply because being a 9 or a 10 places you within the top 1% (arguably even higher) of females. If money is your joker, $60,000 will not get you anywhere.

[Dantes]

(05-20-2015 03:58 PM)Aaron- Wrote:  

The cost of living in NYC is incredibly high compared to other US cities, let alone Eastern Europe or South East Asia cities. The equivalent of $150,000 is approximately $60,000 - $75,000 in second tier US cities. Both salaries mean you will be off reasonably well and you can find a good-looking and fun girl with this salary.

Note that neither $150,000 in New York or $60,000 elsewhere is going to attract 9s or 10s for your money. Every (capital) city that you travel to, 9s and 10s will have plenty of options among the top 1% earners, simply because being a 9 or a 10 places you within the top 1% (arguably even higher) of females. If money is your joker, $60,000 will not get you anywhere.

Delete

[Menace]

This decision should absolutely NOT be based on ease of banging girls. Hedonic adaptation. Think about what your life will be like, who your friends may (or may not be), the cleanliness of the environment, etc.

On another note, I find it crazy that the median income in the US is only $27K. I mean that's poverty.

[speakeasy]

@RioNomad, I believe that's for recent grads.

(05-20-2015 06:25 PM)Menace Wrote:  

On another note, I find it crazy that the median income in the US is only $27K. I mean that's poverty.

That's poverty if you're talking about a household of 4. But not for individuals. I think the poverty cutoff line is like 11k for a single.

For a household, median income around 40-45k depending on who's numbers you use. Comparatively, the US still manages to rank #6 in median household income. We sit right between Denmark and Canada. Even other places we think of as rich nations have median household incomes in the low to mid 30s. Places like Japan, UK, Hong Kong, NZ, S. Korea, Singapore, France, Finland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

I've seen studies that show there's a HUGE disconnect between how much money the average person makes and how much the average person thinks is the average. I believe it's the same with sex.

[civpro]

$60k and the ability to roam free in Europe or South America hands down. $150k in an American metropolis means very little if you don't have the looks, as that's the bottom line for Anglo women.

[The_CEO]

I would take the job that involved work that I wanted to be doing if there is a difference between the two.

Also, with 60, you could potentially have a better savings rate than 150 in NY, depending on where you live.
Better quality of life + more savings? Seems like an easy decision.

If you are younger though, I might do NY.

[fucksong]

(05-19-2015 01:29 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

150k @ 40 hours or 80-100?
And how many hours is the location independent gig?

If it's 40 hours, nyc easily.

If the location independent gig is 40 hours of system n administration from 12 pm to 8 pm, That would be hellish.

Need more data

I agree with what WestIndianArchie said in this post as well as what some others had mentioned regarding needing more data. Too many important details that are missing to truly make an informed decision. Some additional questions to ask are:

1) How would you describe your game "level" or rather your style/confidence of meeting women?

2) What is your personality type?

3) Is this job your passion/do you enjoy it?

Question #1 is important because if your game sucks ass, just having money ain't gonna automatically make you successful unless you want a gold digger. Spending some time in an RVF friendly country is better for your long term dating health than having cash in bank. To give you a reference, I was just shy of earning $120k a year in Tokyo ($10k a month for two months) but was working 6 days a week, 10-12 hour days, gained weight, didn't get laid ONCE during that work period. Contrast this to when I was near broke, sleeping on a relative's floor, and I was going out on multiple dates from daygame, and met my previous ex-gf of several years.

Question #2 is important because unless you are organized and able to wear many different hats (boss, manager, worker, etc), being location independent is owning a business and not everybody is suited to running a business. If I can somewhat quote the basic gist behind the E-Myth, just because you're a great baker doesn't mean you can run and own a bakery. There's many other duties involved. Unless you're prepared to learn new things and continue to learn new skills, running a business might not be for you and you might be better off in a situation where you have one specific duty to do and you do it well.

Question #3 is important because if you don't enjoy your job, then at least for me, location independence (if also time indepedent) would be ideal because you would have more time to do what you love, which ultimately makes you happier, which as a byproduct makes it easier for you to meet women, also easier to network because you're in a better mood, and ironically, makes it easier to learn new skills that can also help you in the long run.

So again, need more details not just about job but also about yourself to give good feedback. everybody who has commented on this thread is basically giving it from their perspective which isn't relevant to you since we're not you.

Lastly, as some have mentioned, finance is the biggest industry in NY so if you happen to be in finance, I would add that it always surprises me that so many intelligent, smart people who get paid zillions to do the most complex, analytical analyses of whatever, covering every little aspect of a deal/project doing things such as sensitivity analyses, 3/5/7 year forecasts, analyzing statistics, etc fail to do this with their own lives and own work schedules. They fail to look at themselves as an asset or if they do, not at the same level of complexity that they would on a multi-million dollar deal. Will you appreciate or depreciate as a human being by taking on this job in NY? Will you appreciate or depreciate as a human being by being location independent. Will you appreciate or depreciate having sex with hot ass girls on a regular basis?

I happen to personally know pretty well off guys living in Silicon Valley who are killing it financially who don't get any poontang whereas I know several english teachers getting laid regularly living abroad.

Personally for me, checkmate right there.

[Suits]

I'm impressed with the detail and variety in the responses. In fact, I found it incredibly overwhelming and had to take a nap.

Now that I've woken up, I'll contribute my own thoughts.

Location independent sounds cool and while it's definitely something that I'm shooting for, there is something to be said for settling down too. While being location independent is awesome because you can truly choose where to live, you are going to tire of moving around if you do that regularly. Three years of city hopping and you'll be looking forward to having the same friends in the same place for a longer period of time.

So, I think the bigger question is not $150K in NY or $60K location independent, but rather, once I get tired of being a location independent nomad, where am I going to settle semi-permanent that will offer a better standard of living than I could afford on $150K in NY.

That being said, I think that the exhausting three years as a global location independent globe trotter is something every man should do. Once you do that, you will really appreciate having a stable place to call home, wherever that is.

[WanderingSoul]

Suits, being location independent doesn't mean you have to travel around. You could settle anywhere you wanted.

[Suits]

(05-21-2015 12:37 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Suits, being location independent doesn't mean you have to travel around. You could settle anywhere you wanted.

Exactly my intended point. I think a lot of guys want to be location independent so that they have the freedom to travel, but eventually you are going to settle somewhere.

So you need to be thinking about this game plan from the beginning. Where can you live better for $60K than you can for $150K in NY.

If you can answer that question, location independent for $60K is the better choice. If you can't, the only advantage of the location independent option is that you can temporarily scratch a travel bug itch, before you're right back where you started, hoping that you can still get an offer to live in NY for $150K per year.

Of course, if living in NY would be a dream come true for an individual, then it's a pretty obvious choice as well.

[Aaron-]

(05-20-2015 05:22 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

(05-20-2015 03:58 PM)Aaron- Wrote:  

The cost of living in NYC is incredibly high compared to other US cities, let alone Eastern Europe or South East Asia cities. The equivalent of $150,000 is approximately $60,000 - $75,000 in second tier US cities. Both salaries mean you will be off reasonably well and you can find a good-looking and fun girl with this salary.

Note that neither $150,000 in New York or $60,000 elsewhere is going to attract 9s or 10s for your money. Every (capital) city that you travel to, 9s and 10s will have plenty of options among the top 1% earners, simply because being a 9 or a 10 places you within the top 1% (arguably even higher) of females. If money is your joker, $60,000 will not get you anywhere.

Delete

Burst your bubble? If you disagree, please have the courtesy to point out why.

[travolta]

Why are you limited to only $60k for the location independent job?

You should live somewhere cheap, keep your cost of living very low, and reinvest that $60k into your own business (assuming it's not already). Build up your location independent business to $150k then move to New York.

NYC is good if you're well connected, but otherwise it's a bit overrated. Your money will go further in other places. There are more fatties here than people will admit, and plenty of opportunities in other places. I believe that you can only really get the true value of NYC if you're making millions.

[worldtraveller85]

[quote] (05-20-2015 11:57 PM)fucksong Wrote:  

[quote='WestIndianArchie' pid='1024648' dateline='1432060174']

I happen to personally know pretty well off guys living in Silicon Valley who are killing it financially who don't get any poontang whereas I know several english teachers getting laid regularly living abroad.

Personally for me, checkmate right there.[/quote]

wow some people put getting laid above anything else. u need a balance.

Ive been that guy living overseas getting laid all the time..guess what its like anything it gets fkn boring and u come back years later with fuck all money which is depressing.

Im finally making money now and I love it. I get more excited about making money than fucking broads.

My advice find a medium... find a place where u can get rich and fuck women at the same time. NYC seems god dam ideal. I would kill to live in a cool city like that and make money.

If ur loaded and living in NYC etc surely u can fuck quality women unless u have a head like a bucket of smashed crabs. Only then I would consider travelling exclusively for poon tang.

Find a medium brother. Why sacrifice one for the other when u can have both.

I would give my left nut to live in NYC and be well off. Damm on 150k u can travel anyway.

Having said all that if the location independent job is completely stress free and easy I might go with that. Would be a nice chilled life.

Think about what is most important to you, want u want in life and where u see ursef in ten years.

Lots of variables to think about before making a decision like this.

It's a nice dilema to have.... the only problem is when u have made it u are gona be thinking about the other...

good luck