[I_Affe]

Hey Roosh (and other members of the forum),

I purchased your book and enjoyed it immensely. While a lot of what you said is common sense, e.g. don't invest in the girl too much when you're just starting to get to know her, make your physical intentions known in the beginning, etc. it pays to hear it, especially when one's mind is not in its most rational state. Regardless, I have a question about a date I was on recently.

I went out for coffee with a girl last night, a girl I met at a bar last week. We were both a little drunk when we met, but we, as well as my friend and a friend of hers ended up going back to her place the bar closed. The girl and I flirted quite a bit there, but nothing besides that happened. My friend and I left after about an hour. I called her later and scheduled a date at a coffee shop. I followed your advice from Bang and had just light-hearted informational conversations. I tried to venue-change to a bar down the street after an hour, she thought about it for a minute, but declined. We continued talking and she ended the date about 15 minutes later.

Outside the coffee shop we hugged, I initiated, but she gave me the "friendship hug". You know the kind where the torsos touch, but the waist and below stick out away from the person you're hugging. She said that we should do it again sometime. I said I'd call her and wished her a good night.

My question is, do I write this girl off or do I pursue a second date? One where I can kino a bit more. We sat across from one another at the coffee shop, as only tables were open when we sat down.

[X-Factor]

Welcome to Roosh's forum.

It's hard for me to say what went wrong after the bar since you didn't provide any information about the interaction at said bar. Were the two of you (you and the woman) being sexual and flirtatious with each other? Was there kino escalation? Do you understand the concept of push/pull? Do you understand the concept of cocky/funny?

When the four of you were at her house, you really should have been ramping up the kino and push/pull. When you say that the two of you were "flirting," you need to be more specific. A lot of times, it's easy for guys to think that they're being flirtatious when in reality, they are not. I don't know you that well, and I can't say that is the case. But maybe it's a possibility?? It's at this point of the night where you should have already accurately gauged her interest level and acted accordingly. It has been my experience that women don't invite guys back to their place unless they at least have a SHRED of attraction towards that guy. Or, the other case is that they want the guy to just bring over booze, drugs, or both. Assuming you're not a coke head (and neither are the women in question), they were either at least mildly attracted to you and your friend or they wanted you to bring beer/booze over.

Concerning the date, I think "coffee dates" are a death knell and are what "nice guys" do when they want to enter the dreaded friendzone. When I read that, I just cringed. Considering you two met in a bar whilst highly inebriated, it is just incongruent to meet up a coffee shop. You need to take her back to the fun that you guys were having at the bar. This is called "anchoring to an emotion." Now, you don't necessarily have to meet back up at the bar (although that IS an option). However, an action date is much more fun and will mentally take her back to that night and the fun that all you guys were having. Does this make any sense?

See, women's interest levels are as fleeting as the wind. You really should have capitalized on it that night after the bar. However, you got her number and set up a date for the coffee shop. We've already identified that as mistake number one. An action date was the move here for the reasons I stated above (If you don't know what an action date is, think bowling, frisbee golf, or sport climbing at a local gym. Something along those lines.) Mistake number two was having the coffee date last so long. You should have bounced after twenty minutes. You left nothing to her imagination. Most likely, you were telegraphing desperation by having the coffee session last an hour. You were saying, "I have nothing better to do than sit at a damn coffee shop for an entire afternoon talking with some broad about what they think about the government bailouts." (Please, oh please, tell me you didn't talk about the government bailouts)

Trying to venue change was a good idea, but again, it was used incorrectly in this instance. Twenty minutes into the date, you could have said something like this, "Hey, I'm headed over to X Bar to meet my buddy for happy hour. I like to get a nice coffee buzz on before I get my swill on. Care to join?" If she says yes, then you both go to the bar. Once there, you can act as if your "buddy" just sent you a text saying he can't make it. Damn. Oh well. So you enjoy a cocktail or two and attempt to escalate. If she's into it, press harder with push/pull and cocky/funny. Go for the kiss sooner rather than later. If she's not feeling your vibe, then bounce. No need to waste your time.

Now, if she declines to accompany you to the "bar" for a fake meetup between you and your nonexistent friend, you can set something up for later. Give her a specific time on a specific day that you will call her. You must call her, and not text her. Texting is for women. What you are doing here is controlling the frame between the two of you. YOU are setting things up so that you reduce the chances for her to flake on you.

Do you see where I'm coming from with all this? You should have the mindset of bringing this broad into YOUR WORLD. It's as if you're doing HER a favor. Hope this helps, and if you want to chat more about it, feel free to PM me.

Respect.

[twigman]

Good for you for trying with this girl.

I don't want to say it was the fault or the venue or what you did. Maybe it was just her. But I guess we're hear to learn from people.

Look at my picture on this board- Its a bit of a joke - I never did coffee dates once I started reading about attraction building. What could be worse than sitting where you can't kino, drinking a stimulant rather than a relaxant, in a place where friends meet and couples break up. If the name of the game if variety, fun and light heartedness, you're working against the grain at the coffee shop.

Alcohol and bars are great signifiers of fun and getting it on. A drink at a nice lounge bar is my preference.

That said, a man who is successful with women can get a whole lot of spark out regardles environment. But why handicap yourself? I mean, why putt from the sandtrap?

[X-Factor]

I second what Twig said about trying with the girl. You at least grabbed your sack, which is more than I can say for a lot of guys.

I want to add that my post was mere speculation about what went wrong. What I was trying to accomplish was to get you thinking from a different mindset. Check your pm's OP...

Yo Twig. Thanks for clarification on your pic. I always thought, "WTF?"

: )

[Roosh]

In the future you have to imply that the coffee shop will not be the final destination. Next time say this: "Let's start at coffee castle and then head up to this other spot that i know." Then at the coffee shop you don't ask but tell her that you guys are going down the street to somewhere else.

The fact that she declined is a bad sign (she didn't want to continue the night), but i would definitely try to get her out again, straight to the bar (no more coffee shops).