[mofo]

Ali: Be nice and share those power moves with us please

[pitt]

(06-01-2011 11:25 PM)Rockstar Wrote:  

(05-22-2011 05:20 PM)blurb Wrote:  

I talked with a martial arts instructor once. He said that karate works only when you're standing up. But when...let's say... some guy's on top of you trying to beat you up it doesn't do you any good; it's useless. For that situation, you'll need tae kwon do.

AHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA WAIT AHAHAHAHHAHAHA

dude, please tell me you are joking. This is the worst advice (or the best joke) i've ever seen on the internet.

Here are the 5 that matter. The rest are basically garbage/ineffective.

Brazilian jiu jitsu. Muay Thai. Boxing. Wrestling. Submission wrestling (catch-as-catch-can aka shoot wrestling.) Watch ufc 1-10 and you'll see style vs. style". The best Kung fu and karate guys were brought in and go DEMOLISHED by 175 lb brazilian jiu jitsu blue belt named "Royce Gracie". Maybe you heard of him.

Honorable mention goes to Kyokushin Karate for their hardcore training and sparring. The rest are seriously worthless UNLESS you are already a legit street fighter and athletic. The philosophy shit and kata are just made to take the learning longer and the process of taking your money more effective, and longer.

Yeah Royce was a bad ass, dude used to hit parties and just knock out regular dudes that couldnt fight (over nothing). He died in jail 2 or 3 yrs ago.

[mofo]

Pitt: Royce is not dead. His brother Ryan is dead.

[pitt]

Ye mofo my bad, actually i was talking about Ryan..Ryan was a crazy dude.

[Mentavious]

Bumping this thread.

I'd like to start getting into some form of martial arts. Any advice on which one? Something that is good for both standing and ground defense.

[OGNorCal707]

(06-04-2013 05:20 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  

Bumping this thread.

I'd like to start getting into some form of martial arts. Any advice on which one? Something that is good for both standing and ground defense.

Pretty much any MMA gym in the U.S. will teach some combination of BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, or wrestling, that may be the best place to start if you want to learn stand up and ground fighting (grappling). Otherwise I hear good things about Krav Maga, although it seems to elicit a lot of divisions, between its supporters and detractors. I mention K.M. because I hear they teach both stand up and grappling.

I've been taking Filipino Kali/Escrima for about 8 months now and like it a lot, it has a good stand up style, plus some grappling/wrestling. Unfortunately the way it's usually taught starts you off with rattan sticks, then progresses to knife fighting, and finally you get to empty hands and grappling. If you're not interested or have the patience to learn stick/knife fighting, then I would probably advise against Eskrima.

[anamericaninbangkok]

(05-23-2011 11:04 PM)Ami5 Wrote:  

I am a Blue belt in Taek Won Do and have been on the national level fighting as such. Although that was when I was 15

Let me put it very clear...
If you are standing up - Taek Won Do, Karate, Jujitsu and Jeet Kune Do. They work real good. I have seen guys learning Brazillian Juijitsu and Russian fighting, I dont give a damn about it all! Its pretty much worthless.
Although I must say, Judo has been worthless always... ALWAYS !

If you are down - TKD still is not bad. At this point I must mention there is not a huge difference between TKD and Karate. But yes, you are not VERY strong when down while using TKD/Karate.

But if you can learn, go for Jujitsu. Its way better - useful and real good!

(05-25-2011 03:52 AM)blurb Wrote:  

Anyone have good tips/advice to someone who's starting out boxing? Obviously, you get what you put in, but how important is it to have a good coach?

Ami5 - TROLL

Blurb - put the time in. It's very important to have a good trainer who knows how to motivate you, when to push and when to back off, and of course, one who can teach you the art of boxing.

I'm 50 years old and although I don't train a whole lot anymore as my body is thrashed, I've trained in a multitude of arts and also trained pro boxers, a couple of which were world rated.

I wrestled in high school, trained in boxing, TKD (Blue belt), Chinese Kung Fu (Black belt), Karate (Blue), Shootfighting, and Muay Thai. Did a little BJJ. Whenever I got into a major scrap I fell back on my hands, elbows, knees while guys were down, and low kicks to the shin or side of the knees.

TKD - for the street, unless you're mad proficient forget about it. I used to spar with TKD guys who were supposedly national champions and kick the shit out of them. They would try high kicks and I'd kick their support leg. After a couple of kicks it got hard for them to stand.

Karate - Hard core training like Kyoshinkai, not bullshit no-contact training, is decent for stand up. Quite a few good pros have come from a Kyoshinkai background.

Boxing - excellent. You train for stamina and to knock guys out. You get hit. It's real.

Muay Thai - same as boxing. Hand techniques are used differently than in boxing and sometimes the fighters are less proficient with their hands but they're still used. All of the guys I worked with in boxing fought in Muay Thai at one time, they just happened to have much better hands than others and you make more in boxing than Muay Thai.

Thai kicks break arms and elbows and knees make the art even more useful.

BJJ / Sambo - excellent. You need to learn the ground game because as was noted, if you're unable to finish a guy while standing, inevitably the fight is going to the ground. Even learning a few basic moves can be very helpful on the street.

Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, Sambo...

[PoosyWrecker]

Quote:

Karate - Hard core training like Kyoshinkai, not bullshit no-contact training, is decent for stand up. Quite a few good pros have come from a Kyoshinkai background.

Besides Machida and GSP (who both train BJJ, MT, boxing, wrestling) who else came from a Karate background?

[anamericaninbangkok]

Andy Hug is one who comes to mind. Excellent K-1 fighter. There are others too but I'll have to check to come up with names.

[Sherman]

I trained with Master Nishiyama to black belt when he was still alive and never regretted it. He was one of the original students of Master Funakoshi, the man who actually coined the word "Karate". The workouts were tough and strictly old school. The style emphasized power, form, control, and stability. The Shotokon style is about half kicks and half hand moves, unlike Taekwondo which tends to overemphasize kicks, which can be unstable in a real fight. The competition kumite was non contact, but at higher levels some contact was allowed. One important consideration is that in Karate you learn how to punch and kick without injuring yourself. I have worked out with boxers who spend 15 minutes wrapping their hands and putting on boxing gloves before they will hit a bag. I routinely punch bags with full force without gloves and have never had an wrist sprain or injury. In a real fight you don't have time to put on gloves. I would recommend picking a traditional style which emphasizes form and control and provides an intense workout. With that as a foundation, you can move to any other style and master it

[Jaylow]

If you could only choose 1 I would say to take a striking martial art or an all-in-one MMA gym. The problem with BJJ is that it is only good vs one person. Its kind of hard to grapple or get ground control on someone when his friend is punching you in the back of the head or kicking you on the ground. At least with striking you can knock one of the dudes out instantly and deal with the other.

[Pacific]

recommending going to the ground in a street fight is just stupid. You are just asking to get kicked in the head by the guy's buddies.

[Lemmo]

(06-04-2013 05:20 PM)CThunder86 Wrote:  

Bumping this thread.

I'd like to start getting into some form of martial arts. Any advice on which one? Something that is good for both standing and ground defense.

It depends. What is your reason for getting into it? Fun? Fitness? If it is self-defense, a better option is a combination of living in a better place and a gun/knife/blackjack. I'd say boxing is the most fun since it centers more around hitting and sparring rather than katas and doesn't require getting too up close with another guy like the grappling arts. And you learn the important truth that punching someone with your bare fist will most likely result in a broken hand.

[Genghis Khan]

(09-11-2011 06:10 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(09-11-2011 05:53 PM)mofo Wrote:  

For self defense: Muay Thai, Boxing, MMA

For fun: Judo, BJJ (This one is not so bad for self-defense in a one-on-one situation but you don't want to go to the ground on the street, usually your opponent is not alone), anyting you want

Ali: Sanda seems to be a good martial art, a bit similar to muay thai so it's cool.

Last time I had to fight in a bar was w/ 2 assailants. I used a handful of salt to blind the first attacker and used that window to neutralize the second attacker. By the time the first dude was able to see the fight was broken up. There's no rulebook on fighting. It's to win. And if they're badder than me I'll pull out a fighting folder or Glock and beat the evolutionary odds.

I have some training from the military and law enforcement. Jujitsu is a good style, but not one style is perfect. Pick up different moves from different camps. I have about 5 power moves that have served me well, and never strike w/ a closed fist.

Might be a dumb question, but why should you never strike with a closed fist?

[anamericaninbangkok]

(06-04-2013 07:11 PM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:  

Quote:

Karate - Hard core training like Kyoshinkai, not bullshit no-contact training, is decent for stand up. Quite a few good pros have come from a Kyoshinkai background.

Besides Machida and GSP (who both train BJJ, MT, boxing, wrestling) who else came from a Karate background?

Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, Nicholas Pettas, Sam Greco, Francisco Filho, Alexander Volkov, and Ryo Chonan...

[Mentavious]

Sounds like I can train in Karate to start. Then later I can branch out?

[PoosyWrecker]

(06-04-2013 09:19 PM)anamericaninbangkok Wrote:  

Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, Nicholas Pettas, Sam Greco, Francisco Filho, Alexander Volkov, and Ryo Chonan...

Seems like Karate dojos are very different outside of the States.

[Roadrunner]

(06-04-2013 07:20 PM)anamericaninbangkok Wrote:  

Andy Hug is one who comes to mind. Excellent K-1 fighter. There are others too but I'll have to check to come up with names.

Andy hug is the man. His axe kicks are ridiculous. I suggest everyone reading this post to go and see how he delivers the axe kick. Even though some say that it is useless in a real match there are ways to land it and it is devastating when it lands, andy hug sets it up and executes it perfectly.

[MidniteSpecial]

Systema.

[teh_skeeze]

(06-05-2013 02:01 PM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:  

(06-04-2013 09:19 PM)anamericaninbangkok Wrote:  

Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, Nicholas Pettas, Sam Greco, Francisco Filho, Alexander Volkov, and Ryo Chonan...

Seems like Karate dojos are very different outside of the States.

That's because they are. In the US everything is dictated by money. In martial arts this means instant gratification and a training regimen that appeals to the lowest common denominator. I trained in TKD for 8 years and assisted/instructed for 7. One of the reasons I don't do it anymore is I felt I had a higher standard than the master. He wanted me to railroad everyone through, while I had no qualms about having students skip tests. The best training I ever had came when we would get a guest master from Korea. I could barely stand after training with them.

When it comes to what art/style you should take up you need to take your body type into account. Every one has been developed according taking this and their opponents styles. TKD happens to be a good art for me. I don't have a lot of brute strength, but I make up for it in balance and agility. I also have long legs, so I'm practically built for an art that focuses on kicks.

I will second what Speakeasy said and suggest you take boxing and some form of grappling. Most untrained people are going to do one of three things: overhand right, grab the collar of your shirt/try to pull it over your head, or try to take you down by the waist leaning towards a sucker overhand right. Boxing will take care of that and be an option for the shirt grab. Grappling/sprawl will handle the rest.

Note this doesn't take into account an opponent with a weapon. That's a totally different ballgame.

[Hades]

What I learned was that tae kwon do, karate, etc. are worthless disciplines and not suited for combat.

Boxing and some kind of wrestling are all you need.
If you only do one on one, judo is also very useful. Even if you know no judo, you should learn at least two or three basic throws in case you're in a two on one fight. BJJ can be good but boxing is generally accepted as king.

[anamericaninbangkok]

(06-05-2013 08:52 PM)Hades Wrote:  

What I learned was that tae kwon do, karate, etc. are worthless disciplines and not suited for combat.

Boxing and some kind of wrestling are all you need.
If you only do one on one, judo is also very useful. Even if you know no judo, you should learn at least two or three basic throws in case you're in a two on one fight. BJJ can be good but boxing is generally accepted as king.

I have to disagree with you on several things.

First, I've taken karate and Tae Kwon Do and they are hardly worthless. I learned things like hip rotation, how important technique can be, timing, distance, etc. This isn't even saying anything about the actual techniques. When I was in my twenties, I weighed about 140-145 lbs. I got into a fight outside of In-and-Out one night with a dude weighing in at 240 or so. He was a big boy. Initially, he mouthed off to me and I ignored him. Then he stepped towards me and began trying to intimidate me and I said something like fuck off idiot. I figured fuck it. He threw a right, I parried it, nailed him with a solid right to the chops. He was staggered but more pissed than anything. He charged me, I threw a rear-hand, looping ridge hand while stepping off to the angle and caught him right across the bridge of the nose. Down he went, out fucking cold for ten minutes.

I was still there when he woke up and asked, "What happened?" His friend said, "That little mother fucker knocked you out." I learned that ridge hand in TKD and practiced it over and over in Karate. Worthless is a strong word - using only TKD or Karate in a street fight can get you destroyed. Mix in a little boxing, grappling, and tight footwork, and it can be quite helpful. It's not only the technique involved.

Kyoshinkai tends to be a good art for fighting because they get your ass in shape and condition you to take a pounding. The difference between many guys is simply they are not conditioned to take a pounding. The guy who gets hit and no matter what keeps coming, at least on the street, is often the victor. So Kyoshinkai makes sure it's practitioners are not winded after 30 seconds.

BJJ is good but boxing is king

What about Muay Thai? How bout Sambo? Or Sanda?

A good Muay Thai fighter who is decent with his hands and who knows a little grappling is formidable opponent for most guys. But boxing has it's limitations as well. I like using a jab to set things up but I'd much prefer to follow up with an elbow so I don't risk breaking my hand. BTW - I've fractured my hand five different times, from fights in the street and while training in boxing and Muay Thai. My left hand can not close all the way and it's forever deformed, but that shit happens. Like was said in the other thread, as you get older the injuries pile up.

Sambo, Sanda...also effective. For those who think Sambo isn't effective, just watch clips of Fedor or his brother.

[Jaylow]

Quote:

I like using a jab to set things up but I'd much prefer to follow up with an elbow so I don't risk breaking my hand.

Best case scenario you are forced into a fight and you 1 punch KO him. Problem is you are still at risk to break something in your hand. Theres a lot of jobs out there where you need your right hand so you literally had the best scenario happen and it could still fuck up your life.

Every recent story Ive heard of a UFC fighter getting into a fight outside of the ring it is always them landing a leg kick. They know that some random idiot at the bar isn't worth missing several months of training and throwing a leg kick is pretty much risk free unless you clip the person and break your toes. Plus, if you land a leg kick against a dude that has his leg planted its basically like a KO anyway.

Like AABK said, I rather hit someone with an elbow or shin that won't risk my health. You get in enough bare knuckle brawls and you will break something in your hand. Boxing only teaches punching.

Even though people think TKD, Karate, Judo are useless, training a year+ in any of these disciplines will win a fight against 80% of the idiots out at the bars.

[Sherman]

(06-05-2013 10:11 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

Quote:

I like using a jab to set things up but I'd much prefer to follow up with an elbow so I don't risk breaking my hand.

Best case scenario you are forced into a fight and you 1 punch KO him. Problem is you are still at risk to break something in your hand. Theres a lot of jobs out there where you need your right hand so you literally had the best scenario happen and it could still fuck up your life.

That' s why in Karate we don't train with gloves. You need to condition your hands and learn how to punch correctly so you don't break your wrist. Shotokan emphasizes all of this as part of perfect control. In addition we did knuckle pushups to callass our knuckles and would work out with a Makiwara to increase power with form and body movement. In a real fight, you don't have hand wraps and gloves. Anyone who thinks Karate is useless doesn't understand Japanese psychology. The Japanese are the ultimate realists. Master Nakayama in the 1960s would analyze punches using time lapse photography to study the body movements that would create the punch with maximum power. Completing one work out session in a Japanese dojo was beyond exhaustion and felt like a major accomplishment. Belts were not easily passed out and it took me more than fives years for me to go to black.

[anamericaninbangkok]

Watch Burmese boxing or Leth Wei as it's known. Brutal, hand wraps only, head butts, three knockouts (not knockdowns) ends the fight. Been to many of these and photographed lots of these guys, even became good drinking buddies with a guy who was the Golden Belt champion of Myanmar.

Leth Wei Photos

We were walking around town and people kept asking us to fight...we just wanted to get drunk.

BTW - Rico Sauve...the guy's name was Gerardo Meijia. I used to train with his brother Javier in a gym in Diamond Bar, CA. Actually, when Rico Sauve was a big hit and Gerardo had trim everywhere, we all went to the Hollywood Palace together. Anyhow, I hooked with some smoking chick, one guy apparently took offense, and we got into a fight. We're rolling around on the dance floor, he rolls me and gets on top of me, I stick my finger in his eye socket, he's screaming and scratching me. The bouncers come, he gets booted and because I was with Gerardo, I got to stay. That must have been 20 years ago.